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Dear beats SOS skill wise. But he is not dynamic enough nor good at mind games.
In one of the matches vs JD, he went forge first against JD's 3 hatch, and gave up on cannon rushing when he clearly could cancel one of JD's hatches. He also did an all-in strat and lost while he had the upper hand in standard macro games when JD doesn't do crazy stuff like with no spawning 3 hatches.
His last push in game 5 was also a result of a poor decision making. It shows how bad he is when games don't go as he anticipated.
Overall, I still feel dear is much a stronger player than SOS. I don't think SOS can ever overcome top late game terrans like Taeja with his style.
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your Country52797 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:09 opterown wrote:
i think DiLiGu inadvertetnly made many people fans of sOs with his intense hate
poor guy
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On November 10 2013 11:08 Holloworb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:02 WarWolf wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 10bulgares wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it. And it's not even boring. But that is what is interesting to watch, how can you enjoy sitting here and watching an easy cheese victory... I personally like a mix of cheeses and macro games. Honestly watching 10 macro games in a row can get really boring and predictable, having those crazy high risk games is imo more exciting.
Agreed, occasional risky move is good. It shows that player is willing to take the risk and make game looks more interesting.
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On November 10 2013 11:08 Holloworb wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:02 WarWolf wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 10bulgares wrote:On November 10 2013 10:57 Orek wrote:
As long as rush, cheese, and all-ins are considered somehow "bad" by us foreign fans, foreigners will never show results because they will try to please fans by not doing whatever it takes to win.
"Fuck you fans. I play a boring style, but I win." actually gives the player more money, and I approve it. And it's not even boring. But that is what is interesting to watch, how can you enjoy sitting here and watching an easy cheese victory... I personally like a mix of cheeses and macro games. Honestly watching 10 macro games in a row can get really boring and predictable, having those crazy high risk games is imo more exciting.
i think we were upset with the audacity of a no name like SOS to try to thwart JD with that kind of cheeze. It'sw not exactly classy to do that. IF I was JD i would have cheezed right back to send him a message. From that point on, Sos had the mental advantage from game one, even though JD should have won that match. game two was a complete psyche out from Sos and JD lost his morale IMO to really play strong and aggressively from that point foward.
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On November 10 2013 11:07 chatuka wrote:
it's not that Sos won, he did it by using high risk strategies and realy moreo rock paper scissors kind of action that kind of turned me off. His biggest strength which i respected was his ability to harass with his zealots to put pressure on the defense of the Zerg base. JD did no defend or scout well, due to unknown reasons, partly JD is ultra agressive and does not place defense as a priority. SO it was a bad match up styles of JD also. So all in all , I think JD needs to look hard in the mirror and clearly learn there is a lot of improvements he needs to do to get better against the compeition.
It wasn't rock paper scissors lmao. They guy knew what he was doing and kept outplaying Jaedong. sHy did very well playing one step ahead. Like I said prior, Jaedong wanted to climb K2. He got to the summit by beating Dear, but that was only half the battle. He never made his way back down because he got caught in a storm.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:09 liberate71 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:08 chatuka wrote:On November 10 2013 11:07 double1185 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:54 10bulgares wrote:On November 10 2013 10:42 YyapSsap wrote:
The volatility and inconsistency of this game... I mean SoS is the grand final champion but did squat in S2 or S3. I really dislike one time winners that often disappear in the next season or more.. reminds me when mind and luxury won the msl. Or when sync or casy won the OSL shudders WCS KR: ro32 and victory in challenger league bracket + ro16 and victory in challenger league bracket (it's Korea) DH Bucarest: ro8 (beating Jaedong) + two wins in the seeding matches, qualified for DH winter. IEM NY: ro8 Anyone who follows the korean scene knows that sOs is a great player. Of corse he is, at least he come to blizzcon ranked 12 (of all Sc2 player in the world), yet after the first season, he kinda the player who been around the 8-10 top players, he won this and if he go on to win some more like MC, he gonna be the cheered like hell, but you just cant see that possibility, I think even the fan who are arguing about how awesome, clever sOs is atm will not even believe his next title gonna come soon. I think people including me root for JD not just because of his past glory but also we feel he has the potential of establish something epicness like his BW career again. Sc2 need something like that, we need sth like Brazil or Italy @ World Cup not just some random Greece (who happen to won the Euro but could not even qualify for the next World Cup) stars drive the sport. Sos may become a star., but i didn't see the star quality in him today. Barely anyone knew who Dear was 8 weeks ago - and now he has an army of fans.
I don't know about that haha
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On November 10 2013 11:09 opterown wrote:
i think DiLiGu inadvertetnly made many people fans of sOs with his intense hate
hahahahahahahaha.
I don't often agree with things you say, but when I do 10/10
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Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Warp Prism is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Ok, close enough.
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On November 10 2013 11:10 The_Templar wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:09 opterown wrote:
i think DiLiGu inadvertetnly made many people fans of sOs with his intense hate poor guy
Sick mindgaming just like sOs.
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United Kingdom50293 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:08 Zealously wrote:
Somewhere around 1800 pages for 2 days of games (without a lower bracket and consolation matches and what not) - PRETTY GOOD I DARESAY
For the sake of comparison that's way more than TI2 and fairly close to TI3. PASSIONS = RESTORED
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On November 10 2013 11:09 marcesr wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:07 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 11:01 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 liberate71 wrote:On November 10 2013 10:56 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:48 marcesr wrote:On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:
[quote]
yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways. I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition. It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals. There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs. I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16. I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies. He's just some gamer. You make some very good points, even if most people in this thread disagree...but too much negativity wont help us either, to some extent you gotta accept SC2's problems. Thanks, I appreciate you for actually reading my posts. Have I balance whined once? Nope. Have I spoken ill of sOs as a player or person once? Nope. I've even defended him, because I personally enjoyed his playstyle.I'm not speaking as a hater, or some foaming-at-the-mouth Spike Lee racist caricature. I'm speaking a businessperson. What I want more than anything else is for SC2 to become a mainstream sport, to take the 4th most-watched spot after football, baseball, and basketball in America. But it's so freaking hard to grow a brand in this industry, when victories go to players like sOs. Were the games interesting? Absolutely. Was his play neat and innovative? Yes. Was anyone rooting for him at the start of the tournament? No (speaking for the newish foreign community hear, not for 15000+ post BW people). People don't like to see their favorites just fall by the wayside. Even the most seasoned SC2 viewers here had no idea that sOs was going to win, and did nothing to hype him coming into this tourney. All of the hype was around Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa. Are you fucking SERIOUS? You called him a faceless korean that literally 0 people care about for about 30 pages of this thread. Tell me, how did Soulkey, NaNiwa, Maru, INnoVation, Mvp, and MC. Hell, even HerO and TaeJa all gain their hype? faeries? wizards? pixie dust? He IS faceless compared to those stars! How can you even compare!? I never once called him "all in protoss scum" (taken from another LR thread), or once balanced whined. To imply that, coming into the tourney, he controlled more than 1% of the total fanbase is absurd. Who cares? He's a great player, he has an interesting style, and this win will grant him a lot of exposure and fans. You seem to have this bizarre idea that fan favorites winning every tournament is somehow going to make SC2 into mainstream entertainment. There is no substance to such a claim. You know what will dictate SC2's popularity? The gameplay. That is it. As long as people are playing and watching the game, storylines will create themselves. How do you know that gameplay is the deciding factor?
Innovation has literally nothing going for him except being good at the game. He picked up quite a few fans.
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On November 10 2013 11:05 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:05 lolfail9001 wrote:On November 10 2013 11:04 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:03 stuchiu wrote:
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Forge is Creator
Cannon is sOs
Carrier is Stork.
Mothership is Kiwikaki
Probe is Naniwa
Warpgate is Huk
Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) I still think HerO is Warpprism and sOs is Phoenix. Nah, sOs is CHARGELOT CANNON
did you not watch is PvT? his upgraded chargelots wrecked! (maybe he could just be a forge? - oh, creator)
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On November 10 2013 11:09 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:07 Musicus wrote:On November 10 2013 11:06 stuchiu wrote:
Myungsik can't be Phoenix because he's only shown up in one qualifier. And I'm not including upgrades for now. Just buildings and units. Sora? Sora did sick Phoenix play! Some spots I'll leave empty until some Toss really takes a spot.
Good so far, now we need a Terran and Zerg pantheon. The terran is a bit obvious tho.
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On November 10 2013 11:09 kthrss wrote:
Insanely depressed right now.
sOs is a great protoss to watch compared to almost every other protoss, and despite impressive mind games and weird creative plays (which there is far too little of), I can't feel happy about this. JD winning was going to be the highlight of the year, the epic finish to his 1st place drought, and the confirmation that he's back on top. sOs winning is great, but not nearly as epic. I think even sOs fans would be happy if he lost that final.
I echo the previous sentiment about wanting to curl up in a blanket and do heroin.
why would sOs fans be happy for him to lose? just because you are a jd fan, doesnt mean everyone else is.
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On November 10 2013 11:09 opterown wrote:
i think DiLiGu inadvertetnly made many people fans of sOs with his intense hate
which is fine for him.
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On November 10 2013 11:10 StarStruck wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:07 chatuka wrote:
it's not that Sos won, he did it by using high risk strategies and realy moreo rock paper scissors kind of action that kind of turned me off. His biggest strength which i respected was his ability to harass with his zealots to put pressure on the defense of the Zerg base. JD did no defend or scout well, due to unknown reasons, partly JD is ultra agressive and does not place defense as a priority. SO it was a bad match up styles of JD also. So all in all , I think JD needs to look hard in the mirror and clearly learn there is a lot of improvements he needs to do to get better against the compeition. It wasn't rock paper scissors lmao. They guy knew what he was doing and kept outplaying Jaedong. sHy did very well playing one step ahead. Like I said prior, Jaedong wanted to climb K2. He got to the summit by beating Dear, but that was only half the battle. He never made his way back down because he got caught in a storm.
I disagree, i didn't see the game that way. Sos strats' could have backfired easily , so luck was involved for sure. and Sos would have lost that mental advantage if JD stopped it cold
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On November 10 2013 11:06 stuchiu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:06 hypercube wrote:On November 10 2013 11:00 stuchiu wrote:On November 10 2013 10:58 Ammanas wrote:On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.
And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.
Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs
I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list. If there is Reach, then carrier has to be Stork. That would open up the (blink) stalker position for Hongung, which fits him better anyways, imo. This works for me. No one from SC2 deserves Carriers really. So it's : Zealot is Reach. DT is Inca Stalker is Anypro Carrier is Hongun Void Ray is Genius Phoenix is Hero HT is Rain Immortal is Parting. Sentry is MC Observor is Creator Cannon is sOs Carrier is Stork. In addition: Mothership is Kiwikaki Probe is Naniwa Oracle is Duckdeok (tentatively) Coming from a KT fan: How is Bisu not DT? Mostly a SC2 list. The only reason Stork and Reach are there is because no one from SC2 deserves Zealot or Carrier.
Oh, ok. Corsair then, I guess.
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On November 10 2013 11:11 redpeople wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:09 kthrss wrote:
Insanely depressed right now.
sOs is a great protoss to watch compared to almost every other protoss, and despite impressive mind games and weird creative plays (which there is far too little of), I can't feel happy about this. JD winning was going to be the highlight of the year, the epic finish to his 1st place drought, and the confirmation that he's back on top. sOs winning is great, but not nearly as epic. I think even sOs fans would be happy if he lost that final.
I echo the previous sentiment about wanting to curl up in a blanket and do heroin. why would sOs fans be happy for him to lose? just because you are a jd fan, doesnt mean everyone else is.
Yeah, not everyone is like some sport fans who hate other teams because their favorite team is playing against them.
I'm (very) sad JD lost, but eh. *Mindgames*
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On November 10 2013 11:06 moon_fall wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2013 11:01 Faruko wrote:On November 10 2013 10:59 chatuka wrote:On November 10 2013 10:30 Jonvvv wrote:
sOs outplayed Jaedong, showing absolute brilliance in all three matchups through the tournament. I was rooting for Jaedong to take it, but you can't take anything away from sOs, well deserved champion. (Not saying Jaedong don't deserve it, but sOs was the better player) i respect your opinion, but i disagree. sometimes the better player or team loses. luck is a factor as is conditions, confidence, and mind games, psyche outs. Implying that JD was the better player ? i doubt that, right now sOs is a better player than JD, maybe not in micro, maybe not in macro but overall yes he is... JD can be the better player, but not right now This is really interesting. You're saying Jaedong have better micro and macro but sOs is "overall" better player. Mind game > Micro/Micro haha
Interesting that you think that Micro, Macro and Mind games its what SC2 is all about, so execution, intelligence and "6th sense" are all overrated ?
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Northern Ireland25470 Posts
On November 10 2013 11:09 opterown wrote:
i think DiLiGu inadvertetnly made many people fans of sOs with his intense hate
Haha too true, my love is building already
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EPT
