• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 17:14
CET 22:14
KST 06:14
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Finals Preview: Sweet Victory!12[ASL22] Ro4 Preview: Mirror Mirror6[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: Within Reach5[ASL22] Ro8 Preview: In A Tizzy11[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Holy Diver5
Community News
Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.174Evil Geniuses - shutting down20ISSL (IntoTheTV x SOOP SC2 League): Premier5Weekly Cups (October 12-18): 5.0.17 era begins1[$1250] International ShieldBattery League92
StarCraft 2
General
How do you feel about the mass reverts in the 5.0.17 PTR? Weekly Cups (October 19-25): Clem triples first in 5.0.17 Evil Geniuses - shutting down REPORT: StarCraft 2: Remastered In Development No more SC2 streamers on team liquid?
Tourneys
Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) RSL 2026 Offline Finals LCQ Sign-Ups Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament 2026 KungFu Cup Announcement RSL goes to London! 2026 Offline Finals Nov 21-22
Strategy
[H] ZvP Mid-Late Game: Stalkers Collossi HT
Custom Maps
Simple Questions/Answers [G] How to playtest arcade maps [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 549 Endless Sparkles The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 548 Shining Bright Mutation # 547 Temple Of Terror
Brood War
General
SC4ALL II Brood War Complete Invited Player Lineup Sagi.gg Launcher Released BW General Discussion Starcraft player cRuZa Passed away. BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/
Tourneys
[IPSL] IPSL Winter 26-27 Ro24 is HERE! [Megathread] Daily Proleagues KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4 [BSL23] RO24 Group D - Sunday 21:00 CET
Strategy
50,000-Word Terran Builds Memo 2026-10-22 Cliff Jump Revisited (1 in a 1000 strategy) Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Armies of Exigo - YesYes? General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Dota 2 Champions League Season 3 Begins April 25!
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine R I P Patrick Steward European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
Reynor Fan Club The Flash Fan Club Serral Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
Innovate or Game Over?
TrAiDoS
ShieldBattery on Mac
Kraekkling
[ASL22] Ro4 Day1 Ticket Giv…
bITt.mAN
Can Bots Beat Pros?? Starcr…
namkraft
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 9167 users

[WCS] Global Finals 2013 Day 2 - Page 531

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 529 530 531 532 533 572 Next
Non-twitch stream: http://eu.battle.net/blizzcon/en/live-stream/

DO NOT! unleash the sheep army. Quoting them is the same as posting them.

Stop the balance whine or bans will be handed out like candy.
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10601
So I've seen some people compare sOs to Bisu in that they both "revolutionized" PvZ strategy, but I don't see it. There's no way that sOs' style here would work on a consistent basis. It worked in this series because JD was caught off guard and sOs was destroying him with mindgames.
Undead1993
Profile Joined January 2012
Germany17651 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-10 01:51:58
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10602
On November 10 2013 10:46 disciple wrote:
What I didnt like so much about the casters is the way they dismissed Dear in hyping sOs as the best protoss in the world. sOs is clearly the hot shit right now, but dear went on a ridiculous streak - sure he was going to lose at some point, but I would consider him still the best protoss in the world right now.

what do you expect from people who say, that sos redefined pvz when he used builds, that have been used half a year ago, not that he doesn't deserve the credit for his performance, mind games and execution, but these 3 like to randomly throw hype around them
SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO SEKO
Chewbacca.
Profile Joined January 2011
United States3634 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10603
On November 10 2013 10:49 Snusmumriken wrote:
This tournament was nowhere close season 3 finals in terms of quality of games. I also cant help but feel that SoS wouldve lost if he had played at least another zerg before jaedong. As per usual the amount of lowrisk high reward options for protoss are overwhelming.


And maybe Jaedong would have lost if he played versus someone else prior to the finals...?
Paragleiber
Profile Joined June 2009
413 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10604
Personally I was pretty happy with the players who made it to the round of 4 and also with the finals. The ceremony and the final commentary were very disappointing though. Of course that can be said for many tournaments in SC2 but this is not really an excuse. The confetti was just ridiculous. You could see absolutely nothing on the stream for maybe more than 10 seconds. I have never seen it like that before. And then cutting off the analysis like that because of "no time" when the final could have gone a lot longer. I really don't understand why they need to do this at the most important event of the year. If at any event at all then at this one should they be able to take some more minutes, no matter how much the venue or whatever costs.
http://www.twitter.com/Paragleiber
Sokrates
Profile Joined May 2012
738 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10605
On November 10 2013 10:42 Faruko wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:40 Sokrates wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long.


"Mind-games" also include a lot of luck (he thinks that i think that he thinks etc.), SOS got lucky, but his wins didnt entirely rely on luck, he is a really good player aswell. It could have also gone the other way round.

"Luck"? that was hardly luck, if you see all the games sOs won, he clearly made JD play what he wanted to play, in fact, he made that in the one he lost, but JD took a chance and build mutas



So cannonrushing and going for a zealot immo allin doesnt have a good portion of luck involved? You know that this are risky builds for a reason... Risky means you do something that involves elements that are out of your control for example JD going hatch first, or SOS going nexus first. That is why i said "mindgames"...
chatuka
Profile Joined July 2011
1351 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10606
that's like that. Styles make fights. JD isn't used a player like SOS that's willing to cheeze all in every game. a different mind set of a different player like FLash could probably crush that strat
pikachu8090
Profile Joined October 2013
51 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10607
So... next year will be the year of Flash?
chatuka
Profile Joined July 2011
1351 Posts
November 10 2013 01:51 GMT
#10608
On November 10 2013 10:51 Sokrates wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:42 Faruko wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:40 Sokrates wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long.


"Mind-games" also include a lot of luck (he thinks that i think that he thinks etc.), SOS got lucky, but his wins didnt entirely rely on luck, he is a really good player aswell. It could have also gone the other way round.

"Luck"? that was hardly luck, if you see all the games sOs won, he clearly made JD play what he wanted to play, in fact, he made that in the one he lost, but JD took a chance and build mutas



So cannonrushing and going for a zealot immo allin doesnt have a good portion of luck involved? You know that this are risky builds for a reason... Risky means you do something that involves elements that are out of your control for example JD going hatch first, or SOS going nexus first. That is why i said "mindgames"...

yup, you win the argument
bourne117
Profile Joined May 2010
United States837 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10609
On November 10 2013 10:49 RiZu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:49 bourne117 wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:45 templar rage wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:43 bourne117 wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:40 templar rage wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:39 liberate71 wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:37 templar rage wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:
[quote]

yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways.


I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition.


It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals.


Guess what, it's fucking boring when players you don't give a shit about win tournaments too.


How did you start to give a shit about said players, enlighten me?


When they give me a reason to.

Like maybe winning the biggest tournament of the year?


By gimmicking his way through the finals? No thanks. I don't blame him for playing the way he did, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.

Then its a good thing JD didn't win because he gimmicked his way to the finals by Roach Baneling all inning Maru all 3 games he won.

DID you even watch the game?

Did you? I am just stating what happened. Game 4 went really long because Maru had a good read on it and started getting tanks also. Game 1 didn't end right away because Maru thought he could do counter pressure with medivacs and he instantly gged when he say the Mutas. Game 2 was just straight up all in and he lost. But go ahead thinking otherwise.
QO Feasting
Kingsky
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Singapore298 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10610
i wish the finals they at least got all 16 players up on stage for a final bow -_- wtf ending was that?
Why do people hate the Colossus? Because the Colossus is like banksters from Wall Street: “too big to fail”. - TheDwF
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10611
SOS! WOONGJIN! KESPA!

WOO!

WOONGJIN WINS AGAIN! KESPA!

Really happy for SOS! Great result for him.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
BisuDagger
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Bisutopia19398 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-10 01:53:05
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10612
On November 10 2013 10:45 KristofferAG wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:41 DiLiGu wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:35 Rostam wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:33 DiLiGu wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:30 aintz wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:29 DiLiGu wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:27 Zealously wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:24 DiLiGu wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:23 liberate71 wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:22 Caladan wrote:
Sad. Another faceless champion.
At least a Kespa player won.

GGs!

Thanks ESL for this fantastic production!


Your smileys dont make up for your silly comments


sOs is the definition of faceless. Most people didn't know he existed before this tournament. And he cheesed the entire finals. What a joke.


Please never come into an LR thread again


I'm hosting a barcraft and it was dead silent in here because no one cares about sOs.

I honestly liked his play - it was neat, and some new strats I never expected to see (hidden expansion in a finals, say WHAT!?). But his story is 0.


yall are a bunch of lame haters then. but you're probaby sitting home alone spreading hate on the internet anyways.


I'm not hating! How can you argue that sOs is in any way a fan favorite!? He's maybe top 100 in terms of name recognition.


It's fucking boring if the same players are constantly placing high and winning every tournament. New fan favorites need to emerge for things to stay interesting. Just because he doesn't have a big fanbase now doesn't mean he never will, and it doesn't mean you should make 100 posts in this thread whining about how he's killing esports by not throwing the finals.


There are several factors that produce increased fanfare in sports. Chief among them are Dynasties, Rivalries, and Underdogs.

I love SC2. I absolutely love it. I watched every single match of WCS NA and EU this year. But the players with the most of each of the three items I mentioned simply keep not winning. What's the biggest rivalry in SC2? It's not IdrA vs MMA anymore. TL vs EG? They're besties now. When was the last Dynasty? Mvp? Everyone loves jurgen. Lost in RO16. Who was the biggest underdog story? NaNiwa, out in ro16.

I'm not hating on sOs, I'm really not. He just doesn't do anything to grow the community. Try explaining him to a new viewer - you can't. He's not the BW god that came to SC2 and continued his legacy. He's not the only foreigner in a Korean-dominated world. He's not the up-and-coming young guy with sick micro. He's not the "new best zerg". He's not the "new best terran". He's not the aggressive Korean Protoss who learned English and has cool ceremonies.

He's just some gamer.

I like good games.
I don't like overhyped players.
Storylines never come first.
A progamer doesn't have to grow the community. A progamer has to play the game, play it well, and produce results.


KAG, don't worry about it. He's wasting a ton of energy trying to devalue sOs aka Shy. DiLiGu you are wrong, I could go on all day explaining sOs to a new comer. Maybe you focus to much on hyped players. But I can tell you stories from sc2 and BW. Just cause I was a Bisu fan in bw didn't mean other players meant nothing to me. Great lost to Hydra in the 2010 MSL. That MSL was one of the least popular yet I still know a ton about great. Stop trying to convince me to be as under-knowledged as you are.
ModeratorFormer Afreeca Starleague Caster: http://afreeca.tv/ASL2ENG2
intotheheart
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Canada33091 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10613
On November 10 2013 10:47 Tiaraju9 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:46 Penguinator wrote:
I'm honestly depressed now. Like physically and mentally fucking depressed after watching that. I want to curl up in a warm blanket and do heroin... Why couldn't Jaedong just win? He's worked so hard...


He just won 45k. Can enjoy the rest of the night with all the ladies.

Note that JD's used to winning tournaments and losing on a big stage.

SKT vs. Oz
3-3
Winner's League
JD vs. Fantasy
Bunker rush => JD's out.

One week later, they had to play in the semis of an OSL.
JD got blasted in the first game.
And then murdered Fantasy for a 3-1.
kiss kiss fall in love
stuchiu
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Fiddler's Green42661 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10614
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.

And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.

Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs

I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list.
Moderator
75
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany4057 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10615
On November 10 2013 10:49 ZombieGrub wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:45 Tamagoshi wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:44 las91 wrote:
what i don't understand is this:

Jaedong is now the MOST CONSISTENT PLAYER OF 2013. Getting to FIVE FUCKING FINALS IN A YEAR.

Maybe he didn't win them, but that's still pretty fucking incredible eh?

EDIT: News check for JD fans, he's fine. he's not slumping. just keep having faith, he'll win titles

I think 2013 is the year of the Dong


I always try and remind myself of this. It's also 'but what if-' but seriously. Five finals in GREAT tournaments, and solid placements elsewhere.

Can we at least call him most consistent player ever and give him an award for that? Cuz it's pretty cool.

i just hope that he will get a 1st place finishing this year.
some chances are left
yo twitch, as long as I can watch 480p lagfree I'm happy
castlewise
Profile Joined August 2010
31 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10616
This was my first time watching the finals live. It was pretty fun. The stream was easy to find, free, and didn't have any lag. (Honestly, I think thats the kind of thing that will grow esports, irregardless of who won.)
Rostam
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2552 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10617
On November 10 2013 10:46 Penguinator wrote:
I'm honestly depressed now. Like physically and mentally fucking depressed after watching that. I want to curl up in a warm blanket and do heroin... Why couldn't Jaedong just win? He's worked so hard...


sOs worked hard too, let's give him a little credit?
BW forever || Thall
las91
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States5080 Posts
November 10 2013 01:52 GMT
#10618
On November 10 2013 10:51 chatuka wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 10 2013 10:51 Sokrates wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:42 Faruko wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:40 Sokrates wrote:
On November 10 2013 10:37 moon_fall wrote:
Grandfinal between Jaedong and sOs is actually a good example of difference between SC BW and SC2. In BW, "hard skill" like micro and macro are all that matters. Hence a good player will be good throughout his career. SC2, on the other hand, somewhat focuses on "soft skill" like mind-game and building hard counter armies, which is much more dicey. So a legendary player in SC2 will not stay in legend for long.


"Mind-games" also include a lot of luck (he thinks that i think that he thinks etc.), SOS got lucky, but his wins didnt entirely rely on luck, he is a really good player aswell. It could have also gone the other way round.

"Luck"? that was hardly luck, if you see all the games sOs won, he clearly made JD play what he wanted to play, in fact, he made that in the one he lost, but JD took a chance and build mutas



So cannonrushing and going for a zealot immo allin doesnt have a good portion of luck involved? You know that this are risky builds for a reason... Risky means you do something that involves elements that are out of your control for example JD going hatch first, or SOS going nexus first. That is why i said "mindgames"...

yup, you win the argument


i like how your definition of risky only involves something that gains macro advantage and not an aggressive play. just shows the bias in the community against aggro plays and allins
In Inca we trust
FrostedMiniWheats
Profile Joined August 2010
United States30730 Posts
November 10 2013 01:53 GMT
#10619
On November 10 2013 10:51 chatuka wrote:
that's like that. Styles make fights. JD isn't used a player like SOS that's willing to cheeze all in every game. a different mind set of a different player like FLash could probably crush that strat


Flash? He seems even worse at dealing with that type of stuff as far as sc2 goes. He had the starsense in BW, but not so much in sc2.
NesTea | Mvp | MC | Leenock | Losira | Gumiho | DRG | Taeja | Jinro | Stephano | Thorzain | Sen | Idra |Polt | Bomber | Symbol | Squirtle | Fantasy | Jaedong | Maru | sOs | Seed | ByuN | ByuL | Neeb| Scarlett | Rogue | IM forever
75
Profile Joined December 2012
Germany4057 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-10 01:53:35
November 10 2013 01:53 GMT
#10620
On November 10 2013 10:52 stuchiu wrote:
For those sad Jaedong fans, he's going to DH Winter.

And for the rest of you, this is the current Protoss Pantheon.

Zealot is Reach.
DT is Inca
Stalker is Anypro
Carrier is Hongun
Void Ray is Genius
Phoenix is Hero
HT is Rain
Immortal is Parting.
Sentry is MC
Observor is Creator
Cannon is sOs

I'm open to suggestions/changes to the list.

mothership is kiwikaki
and bisu might be probe
yo twitch, as long as I can watch 480p lagfree I'm happy
Prev 1 529 530 531 532 533 572 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 14h 46m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 117
SpeCial 1
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 489
ProTech167
White-Ra 149
sSak 42
910 29
Sexy 27
Dota 2
Gorgc18033
syndereN242
League of Legends
JimRising 437
Counter-Strike
kRYSTAL_29
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu632
Trikslyr68
Other Games
Beastyqt788
FrodaN720
Coldzera 592
B2W.Neo456
ToD268
XaKoH 245
shahzam125
C9.Mang0105
QueenE51
Dewaltoss46
fpsfer 1
[ Show 18 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 60
• Adnapsc2 21
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 24
• FirePhoenix12
• ChaeLyn 7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3436
• Nemesis3236
• Scarra580
Other Games
• imaqtpie622
• Shiphtur315
Upcoming Events
GSL
14h 46m
Epic.LAN
15h 46m
Big Brain Bouts
19h 46m
OSC
1d
Replay Cast
1d 1h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 12h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 14h
Epic.LAN
1d 15h
IPSL
1d 18h
eOnzErG vs McRibbed
LancerX vs StRyKeR
AI Arena Tournament
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
OSC
2 days
Yamato Cup
2 days
IPSL
2 days
Artosis vs RiceHat
Kyrie vs Sony
Map Test Tournament
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Ultimate Battle
3 days
Rush vs BeSt
Replay Cast
4 days
Rogue vs Classic
Patches Events
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
KCM Race Survival
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-10-28
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
HCC Season 3

Ongoing

Acropolis #5
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 4
International ShieldBattery League
BSL Season 23
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026

Upcoming

IPSL Winter 2026-27
SC4ALL II: Brood War
BSL 23: Non-Korean Championship
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
eXTREMESLAND 2026
PGL Major Singapore 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.