★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
28%
★★★ - Good game (3)
12%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
8%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 2?
★★★ - Good game (9)
75%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (3)
25%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 3?
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
38%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
25%
★★★ - Good game (1)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
13%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
13%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
33 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
★★★ - Good game (7)
58%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (2)
17%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
17%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
8%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (4)
44%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
22%
★★★ - Good game (2)
22%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
11%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (10)
71%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
14%
★★★ - Good game (1)
7%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
7%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
★★★ - Good game (7)
70%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
10%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
10%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
10%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
10 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (7)
78%
★★★ - Good game (1)
11%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
omg, dat JangBi pic straight into the feels Interestingly enough, the little pic in matchup section moreso then the big one in follow up post. I still can't believe this is true and somehow hope I will wake up from bad dream and he will play tomorrow...
Now Supernova might even have a chance to advance, which sux. I don't think he can beat sOs, but Dear isn't so good against terran. Well, I will just keep my hopes up... After JangBi retiring, Dear is becoming my favourite player, I think.
On August 30 2013 11:55 lichter wrote: If a Code S player who just got 6th place is mediocre (playstyle notwithstanding), I pity all the Challenger league guys out there
mediocre in the context of the Korean scene. He got 6th threw lucky groups and SCV pulls.
I could be proved wrong of course. We will see tonight.
You don't stay in Code S for so long by being mediocre. His play style may not be nice to look at but he does have a lot more success than many players stuck in Challenger league or Code B.
On August 30 2013 11:55 lichter wrote: If a Code S player who just got 6th place is mediocre (playstyle notwithstanding), I pity all the Challenger league guys out there
mediocre in the context of the Korean scene. He got 6th threw lucky groups and SCV pulls.
I could be proved wrong of course. We will see tonight.
last season he beat Squirtle, Parting, Kangho, Trap, barely lost to Rain, beat Soulkey, and then barely lost to First. I'd say that was not a lucky run.
On August 30 2013 11:55 lichter wrote: If a Code S player who just got 6th place is mediocre (playstyle notwithstanding), I pity all the Challenger league guys out there
mediocre in the context of the Korean scene. He got 6th threw lucky groups and SCV pulls.
I could be proved wrong of course. We will see tonight.
You don't stay in Code S for so long by being mediocre. His play style may not be nice to look at but he does have a lot more success than many players stuck in Challenger league or Code B.
Wasn't it easier to stick around in Code S back then than now?
Regardless I just don't feel his play is very strong. His results were impressive but I just think it is a hellbat/SCV pull ridden fluke. I have been wrong before (Soulkey) but usually I know what I am talking about regarding these things.
He got incredibly lucky with how this group played out so if he doesn't make it that confirms this pretty well imo.
Its Sos who got lucky. He is no luckier than anybody in this group. And scv pull takes skill.
On August 30 2013 11:55 lichter wrote: If a Code S player who just got 6th place is mediocre (playstyle notwithstanding), I pity all the Challenger league guys out there
mediocre in the context of the Korean scene. He got 6th threw lucky groups and SCV pulls.
I could be proved wrong of course. We will see tonight.
You don't stay in Code S for so long by being mediocre. His play style may not be nice to look at but he does have a lot more success than many players stuck in Challenger league or Code B.
Wasn't it easier to stick around in Code S back then than now?
Regardless I just don't feel his play is very strong. His results were impressive but I just think it is a hellbat/SCV pull ridden fluke. I have been wrong before (Soulkey) but usually I know what I am talking about regarding these things.
He got incredibly lucky with how this group played out so if he doesn't make it that confirms this pretty well imo.
Not sure how SCV pulls are flukes, they are the same thing as immortal sentry, immortal bust, roach/bane, etc. They are timings. It is like saying Innovation fluked by going 3 base 4M vs Soulkey or Protoss fluked with 2 base quick storm.
On August 30 2013 13:14 Emzeeshady wrote: Not a fluke, just very gimmicky and luck based like any other all in. Going 3 base 4M vs Zerg is different because it can work vs anything Zerg does if you play better then him. An SCV pull relies on the opponent to choose a certain build for a free win rather then something that you win through mechanics.
This genre is called Real Time Strategy for a reason -_-''
On August 30 2013 09:15 Emzeeshady wrote: Well I got banned and flamed for saying Supernova was mediocre and wouldn't make it out of his RO32 group.
He got lucky with Jangbi retiring but I still think his chances are low.
I agree with you, maybe it's the way you said it?
Something like "back to mediocrity for another season" after failing another SCV pull vs Rain.
Somehow the guy who said Symbol was garbage got banned for less then I did
Umm..
Emzeeshady was just temp banned for 30 days by KadaverBB.
That account was created on 2012-01-08 08:53:46 and had 3993 posts.
Reason: You just seem to be unable to stop posting bad in lr threads. 17 mod actions in 6 months, all for being negative about pretty much everything in existence.
This is your absolute last chance to improve. Take 30 days off and come back as a good poster please.
On August 30 2013 13:14 Emzeeshady wrote: Not a fluke, just very gimmicky and luck based like any other all in. Going 3 base 4M vs Zerg is different because it can work vs anything Zerg does if you play better then him. An SCV pull relies on the opponent to choose a certain build for a free win rather then something that you win through mechanics.
This genre is called Real Time Strategy for a reason -_-''
Exactly and some strategies take more skill then others and rely more on luck. Someone who relies on these to do well will have fluky results compared to someone who doesn't.
How much skill a strategy takes is irrelevant; all that matters is how successful it is. You assume that progamers simply flip a switch and go do an all in. Most builds are carefully chosen depending on things such as the metagame, their opponent's tendencies (scouting patterns, building placements, etc), and series position.
Starcraft is a game of limited information. All builds rely on some degree of luck. Greedy > Standard > Cheese > Greedy. You choose your build depending on what you expect from an opponent. There are tons of macro players who have greater career success variability than "gimmicky" players like SuperNova or Symbol or whoever.
On August 30 2013 13:14 Emzeeshady wrote: Not a fluke, just very gimmicky and luck based like any other all in. Going 3 base 4M vs Zerg is different because it can work vs anything Zerg does if you play better then him. An SCV pull relies on the opponent to choose a certain build for a free win rather then something that you win through mechanics.
This genre is called Real Time Strategy for a reason -_-''
Exactly and some strategies take more skill then others and rely more on luck. Someone who relies on these to do well will have fluky results compared to someone who doesn't.
How much skill a strategy takes is irrelevant; all that matters is how successful it is. You assume that progamers simply flip a switch and go do an all in. Most builds are carefully chosen depending on things such as the metagame, their opponent's tendencies (scouting patterns, building placements, etc), and series position.
Starcraft is a game of limited information. All builds rely on some degree of luck. Greedy > Standard > Cheese > Greedy. You choose your build depending on what you expect from an opponent. There are tons of macro players who have greater career success variability than "gimmicky" players like SuperNova or Symbol or whoever.
Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
On August 30 2013 15:47 GumBa wrote: Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
Yeah him crushing the group is a pretty far stretch of the imagination
On August 30 2013 15:47 GumBa wrote: Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
Yeah him crushing the group is a pretty far stretch of the imagination
Not really, Jangbi was a beast in Proleague and was getting really really good last time we saw him.
Jangbi retiring makes me think how many other people will retire in the near future. I expected a big wave of retirements after the Kespa-switch to SC2 but that didn't happen, instead we're now in this situation were slowly one player after the other goes into retirement.
Oh well, I still hope this group can show us some awesome games even without JangBi
On August 30 2013 16:15 Yello wrote: Jangbi retiring makes me think how many other people will retire in the near future. I expected a big wave of retirements after the Kespa-switch to SC2 but that didn't happen, instead we're now in this situation were slowly one player after the other goes into retirement.
Oh well, I still hope this group can show us some awesome games even without JangBi
sad many kespa big name will retire. But on the other hand, the esf renaming is pretty solid, well maybe not prime. Kespa players, except innovation, jaedong, soulkey flash, don't impress me that much. I can understand they lost faith in the game and their future in it.
On August 30 2013 15:47 GumBa wrote: Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
On August 30 2013 15:47 GumBa wrote: Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
On August 30 2013 15:47 GumBa wrote: Somehow I just wish JangBi turns up in a flash of lightning says my retirement was a jk lol and then proceeds to crush the group come out the booth and shout Yo just got JangBanged motherfucker! Sadly thats not gonna happen
On August 30 2013 09:15 Emzeeshady wrote: Well I got banned and flamed for saying Supernova was mediocre and wouldn't make it out of his RO32 group.
He got lucky with Jangbi retiring but I still think his chances are low.
I agree with you, maybe it's the way you said it?
Something like "back to mediocrity for another season" after failing another SCV pull vs Rain.
Somehow the guy who said Symbol was garbage got banned for less then I did
I got a 2 day ban and it was my first ban. After calling symbol garbage for a whole LR thread I said I downright hated him in a way less delicate than needed.
It all depends on the context.
edit: it also depends on if you meant me, 'cause many people dislike Symbol's style when he does his roach heavy boring play without nyduses and things..
Finally have some off to watch Code S and then i get this line up. Now with Jangbi gone I couldnt be less bothered to watch. Cant wait for later rounds.
On August 30 2013 09:15 Emzeeshady wrote: Well I got banned and flamed for saying Supernova was mediocre and wouldn't make it out of his RO32 group.
He got lucky with Jangbi retiring but I still think his chances are low.
I agree with you, maybe it's the way you said it?
Something like "back to mediocrity for another season" after failing another SCV pull vs Rain.
Somehow the guy who said Symbol was garbage got banned for less then I did
I got a 2 day ban and it was my first ban. After calling symbol garbage for a whole LR thread I said I downright hated him in a way less delicate than needed.
It all depends on the context.
edit: it also depends on if you meant me, 'cause many people dislike Symbol's style when he does his roach heavy boring play without nyduses and things..
nah that wasn't you, although it's a bit strange i think you were banned for this
On July 12 2013 21:28 Wintex wrote: i fucking hate symbol.
User was temp banned for this post.
i think he meant this guy
On August 30 2013 07:47 teddyoojo wrote: symbol finally put in the dumpster where he belongs
LOL i had totally forgotten about Tastosis not being here today and totally expected Tasteless' powerful voice in the intro. then Wolf kinda awkwardly mumbles the introduction haha. and da fuck at Khaldor's glasses haha
On August 30 2013 09:15 Emzeeshady wrote: Well I got banned and flamed for saying Supernova was mediocre and wouldn't make it out of his RO32 group.
He got lucky with Jangbi retiring but I still think his chances are low.
I agree with you, maybe it's the way you said it?
Something like "back to mediocrity for another season" after failing another SCV pull vs Rain.
Somehow the guy who said Symbol was garbage got banned for less then I did
I got a 2 day ban and it was my first ban. After calling symbol garbage for a whole LR thread I said I downright hated him in a way less delicate than needed.
It all depends on the context.
edit: it also depends on if you meant me, 'cause many people dislike Symbol's style when he does his roach heavy boring play without nyduses and things..
nah that wasn't you, although it's a bit strange i think you were banned for this
On August 30 2013 07:47 teddyoojo wrote: symbol finally put in the dumpster where he belongs
User was temp banned for this post.
seems more reasonable as a ban
Ah, yeah. We shitpost a lot that day TT. God watching those days of games was such a pain... Context matters a lot. When I couldn't cheer for ST I started attacking the enemy player, and player bashing is bad yo.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (7)
28%
★★★ - Good game (3)
12%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (2)
8%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
4%
25 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 1?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On August 30 2013 18:25 PVJ wrote: Below 5000 viewers? That's an all time low for Code S casts, is it not?
Three person group and no Tastetosis. Personally it's hard to get super hyped for GSL right after WCS finals last week, I wish they had a small break but I guess they need to fit s3 in before Blizzcon.
On August 30 2013 18:25 PVJ wrote: Below 5000 viewers? That's an all time low for Code S casts, is it not?
Three person group and no Tastetosis. Personally it's hard to get super hyped for GSL right after WCS finals last week, I wish they had a small break but I guess they need to fit s3 in before Blizzcon.
America hasn't even finished S2 challenger. I guess there could have been a small break.
On August 30 2013 18:31 NovemberstOrm wrote: no ghost academy?
ghosts slow down your tempo. supernova was playing momentum trying to delay the third base as long as possible. but now that he's on the backfoot it's not going to work anymore because the third base is established and Dear has retained a large army.
On August 30 2013 18:32 Lorch wrote: 1. Nerf Hellbat 2. Nobody uses it anymore (cause thats what nerfing does, no matter the numbers) 3. ????? 4. Mass Chargelot every pvt 5. Sick games
you know you can still use hellbats, it's not that hard to research that blue flame is it?
the marauder/medivac count for supernova is ridiculous. he might not need to take a fourth base since his composition is just so strong, he might be able to attack into Dear.
On August 30 2013 18:32 Lorch wrote: 1. Nerf Hellbat 2. Nobody uses it anymore (cause thats what nerfing does, no matter the numbers) 3. ????? 4. Mass Chargelot every pvt 5. Sick games
you know you can still use hellbats, it's not that hard to research that blue flame is it?
I think you misunderstood. Ofc you can, but it got nerfed so nobody uses it, nerfing has a way bigger psychological effect than it has in the actual game. I'm not saying it made anything imba, I'm saying people less likely to use hellbat cause it got nerfed will lead to a lot more mass chargelot.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (0)
0%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 2?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
Poll: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 3?
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (3)
38%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
25%
★★★ - Good game (1)
13%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
13%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
13%
8 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Supernova vs Dear Game 3?
(Vote): ★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (Vote): ★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (Vote): ★★★ - Good game (Vote): ★★★★ - Highly recommended game (Vote): ★★★★★ - One of the best games this season
On August 30 2013 18:32 Lorch wrote: 1. Nerf Hellbat 2. Nobody uses it anymore (cause thats what nerfing does, no matter the numbers) 3. ????? 4. Mass Chargelot every pvt 5. Sick games
you know you can still use hellbats, it's not that hard to research that blue flame is it?
I think you misunderstood. Ofc you can, but it got nerfed so nobody uses it, nerfing has a way bigger psychological effect than it has in the actual game. I'm not saying it made anything imba, I'm saying people less likely to use hellbat cause it got nerfed will lead to a lot more mass chargelot.
On August 30 2013 18:34 Gamegene wrote: the marauder/medivac count for supernova is ridiculous. he might not need to take a fourth base since his composition is just so strong, he might be able to attack into Dear.
?? Marauders are complete garbage against mass Zealots + 4 Immortals, they melt so badly and can't kill the Zealot wall.
On August 30 2013 18:32 Lorch wrote: 1. Nerf Hellbat 2. Nobody uses it anymore (cause thats what nerfing does, no matter the numbers) 3. ????? 4. Mass Chargelot every pvt 5. Sick games
you know you can still use hellbats, it's not that hard to research that blue flame is it?
It's way too impractical for what you get in return, hence why people don't do it.
On August 30 2013 18:34 Gamegene wrote: the marauder/medivac count for supernova is ridiculous. he might not need to take a fourth base since his composition is just so strong, he might be able to attack into Dear.
?? Marauders are complete garbage against mass Zealots + 4 Immortals, they melt so badly and can't kill the Zealot wall.
Marauder Ghost >>> Marine Ghost.
Even if the ghost count is lower, it's a lot more efficient just because the Marauders are higher hit points and have range 6, so you have more room to dodge. If it was only marauders and medivacs I would agree but ghost/marauder is the way to go.
On August 30 2013 18:32 Lorch wrote: 1. Nerf Hellbat 2. Nobody uses it anymore (cause thats what nerfing does, no matter the numbers) 3. ????? 4. Mass Chargelot every pvt 5. Sick games
you know you can still use hellbats, it's not that hard to research that blue flame is it?
People never have a techlab on their factory against Protoss, I guess it's too much of a detour to do the switch. I feel like Terran vs Protoss right now is really timing based and you can't spare the time to research blue flame.
Damn, this is basically how all my TvPs go, applying some pressure most of the game with some minor success but then once Colossus+Templar are out it's instant GG, unless you EMP or snipe every single templar your army will get eaten. I think they do need to mix in hellbats or something to tank storms, or maybe use nukes defensively for position?
lolz thought the ad was for Jangbitown for a second
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
On August 30 2013 18:38 sharkie wrote: Immortals won Dear the battle, havent seen a lot of them in the late game :o
They've been popping up a little recently in some PvT. Not many just three or four sprinkled into the P army against Marauder heavy T armies. It's nice to see. In any case, I like Immortals, and the thunk of their phase disruptor cannons sound cool.
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
Khaldor you be swaggin with them glasses :D
Well I don't know about that lol ^^ They'll be gone in a week thankfully. Getting the surgery next week's Thursday
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
Well supernova, like all of us, was a huge jangbi fan and mentally prepared himself to get jangbanged today, then he finds out jangbi retires, so obv he looses 0-2 to dear, then channels his inner jangbi, and comes back to take the final match
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
Well supernova, like all of us, was a huge jangbi fan and mentally prepared himself to get jangbanged today, then he finds out jangbi retires, so obv he looses 0-2 to dear, then channels his inner jangbi, and comes back to take the final match
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
Khaldor you be swaggin with them glasses :D
Well I don't know about that lol ^^ They'll be gone in a week thankfully. Getting the surgery next week's Thursday
You should wear them when MKP plays and swag out together
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
it's just because he didn't pull SCVs =/
nah but like... i was only half-serious cause i want Supernova to win so badly haha. calm down there Moby
On August 30 2013 18:44 painkilla wrote: I think if SN didn't try his best that match (not saying he didn't) that would be wise of him. That way he only need to win one Bo3 against protoss.
Not when his opponents are Dear and sOs, 2 cunning protosses.
On August 30 2013 18:06 Schelim wrote: Supernova about to 4-0 this group and Wolfdor talking shit lol. they don't know about that SCV pull but they gon find out.
You were saying?
it's just because he didn't pull SCVs =/
nah but like... i was only half-serious cause i want Supernova to win so badly haha. calm down there Moby
Sounds like it does that you should be the calming down one, sonny
On August 30 2013 18:44 painkilla wrote: I think if SN didn't try his best that match (not saying he didn't) that would be wise of him. That way he only need to win one Bo3 against protoss.
That's an interesting way to think about it, maybe he saved his real strats for the final match.
On August 30 2013 18:44 painkilla wrote: I think if SN didn't try his best that match (not saying he didn't) that would be wise of him. That way he only need to win one Bo3 against protoss.
Not when his opponents are Dear and sOs, 2 cunning protosses.
On August 30 2013 18:44 painkilla wrote: I think if SN didn't try his best that match (not saying he didn't) that would be wise of him. That way he only need to win one Bo3 against protoss.
That's an interesting way to think about it, maybe he saved his real strats for the final match.
While it doesn't make too much competitive sense it is credible for the matchup
i understand the reasoning behind it. if you take out the AoE quickly enough with ghosts or vikings, you can just ram the front with 45 hit point units while your main and natural start to dry out.
On August 30 2013 18:49 Gamegene wrote: i understand the reasoning behind it. if you take out the AoE quickly enough with ghosts or vikings, you can just ram the front with 45 hit point units while your main and natural start to dry out.
still really boring.
The reasoning is that if you let Protoss get both AoE techs out, the terran needs slightly better army micro to win.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
3%
33 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 1?
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On August 30 2013 18:49 Gamegene wrote: i understand the reasoning behind it. if you take out the AoE quickly enough with ghosts or vikings, you can just ram the front with 45 hit point units while your main and natural start to dry out.
still really boring.
The reasoning is that if you let Protoss get both AoE techs out, the terran needs slightly better army micro to win.
Supernova's late game army micro made me spit out milk laughing once . I can see why he goes for so many SCV pulls
Where did you spit the milk? Onto keyboard / screen? Do you cover your electronics in plastic now to avod damage?
On August 30 2013 18:49 Gamegene wrote: i understand the reasoning behind it. if you take out the AoE quickly enough with ghosts or vikings, you can just ram the front with 45 hit point units while your main and natural start to dry out.
still really boring.
The reasoning is that if you let Protoss get both AoE techs out, the terran needs slightly better army micro to win.
Supernova's late game army micro made me spit out milk laughing once . I can see why he goes for so many SCV pulls
Last time you bashed SuperNova it didn't go so well for you, maybe it's time to step back a bit in the mockery department. We get it that you don't like him and all.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Don't worry, there's still HerO. Who's streaming atm, doing things that nobody else can do.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Do you have to ask? I don't know what to tell you.
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
8%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
12 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 2?
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Poll: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
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★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
22%
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Your vote: Recommend Winners' Match Game 3?
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On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
No, I won't QQ. YOU will QQ when protoss doesn't win this GSL yet again.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
Yes, I thought that might be it. Anytime I hear Protoss and evolution in the same sentence my psi-sense starts tingling.
And sOs wraps it up with a smooth PvP. Some old school PvP done and dusted in less than 10 minutes. Nice.
"Hi guys. My games now?" 4 gate -> DTs "Thanks guys, see you!" Pretty quick 100 WCS points and $500. Wish I made money that fast.
Almost like one of those ads. "My Neighbour makes $800 an hour using this one simple method! Macro players hate him! Click here to find out what he does!"
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
Its pointless because its obvious Blizzard isn't fixing it anytime soon but still the issue is still annoying.
And those folks are only quiet when toss wins this way. Take my words: when toss loses later rounds, they will be the ones QQ'ing about "fundamental flaws of Warpgates" blah blah blah.
On August 30 2013 19:05 i.of.the.storm wrote: Someone please tell BKTrax to drop this song right away, this is quite possibly the worst song I've ever heard on GomTV.
The lyrics are some of the most generic and inane I've ever heard.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
No, I won't QQ. YOU will QQ when protoss doesn't win this GSL yet again.
Dude I actually played protoss when killer was the one guy in ro16 and he lost by not having a unit in his wall vs some zerg I forgot. Besides the fact that I switched races, I couldn't care less how protoss does in gsl as 32 players playing a tournament is a pretty meh indicator of balance.
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
Its pointless because its obvious Blizzard isn't fixing it anytime soon but still the issue is still annoying.
And those folks are only quiet when toss wins this way. Take my words: when toss loses later rounds, they will be the ones QQ'ing about "fundamental flaws of Warpgates" blah blah blah.
No, they typically complain about the mythical "lower skill cap".
On August 30 2013 18:57 usethis2 wrote: As I said somewhere else.. these two Toss are an example of what holds the evolution of protoss metagame. It's really sad.
Huh? Why?
Becase it's that time of the qq cycle again where we cry about P design in star 2, nothing new to see here, just move along.
Its pointless because its obvious Blizzard isn't fixing it anytime soon but still the issue is still annoying.
And those folks are only quiet when toss wins this way. Take my words: when toss loses later rounds, they will be the ones QQ'ing about "fundamental flaws of Warpgates" blah blah blah.
No, they typically complain about the mythical "lower skill cap".
On August 30 2013 19:09 Koshi wrote: Kinda stupid they don't do a round robin when with 3.
Afraid of tie breaker.
I am not sure it is about tiebreaker. But since Jangbi only announced his retirement like 2 days ago, would have been unfair to change the format. And format changes in general are not done. That is why players get BYEs when their opponents don't show up instead of brackets being reworked even tho the brackets might become 'unbalanced'.
I hope SuperNova wins, his team is imploding. Then again, who knows if STX is imploding too. Still, overall gotta root for SuperNova, they should give him his damn nestea award.
On August 30 2013 19:05 i.of.the.storm wrote: Someone please tell BKTrax to drop this song right away, this is quite possibly the worst song I've ever heard on GomTV.
The pedo song was bad but it at least made me laugh.
On August 30 2013 19:14 NarutO wrote: I actually think while its rare to see Khaldor with glasses, they really fit. He looks like some sort of banker (at least to me).
I think they might be uncomfortable with the (I assume) tight-fitting broadcasting headset, though.
Tune in, see sOs and Dear won their matches 2-0 and wonder: i suppose Dear cheesed SuperNova out before he could SCV pull and sOs did sOs? Also, Khaldor with glasses O_o
If supernova wins here, dear surely get's another BO3 vs him right? if not, they need to think of something better when a player retires or can't show.
On August 30 2013 19:14 NarutO wrote: I actually think while its rare to see Khaldor with glasses, they really fit. He looks like some sort of banker (at least to me).
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (10)
71%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (2)
14%
★★★ - Good game (1)
7%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
7%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (0)
0%
14 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 1?
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like I said earlier, Supernova didn't have much of a chance vs. Dear/sOs D: has to pull out some crazy cheeses if he wants to take the next two games :3
Come on Supernova... Overstimming units, then getting one big storm => no HP. Supernova decision : screw it let's go up this ramp => Every terran unit die instantly.
On August 30 2013 19:32 samurai80 wrote: Come on Supernova... Overstimming units, then getting one big storm => no HP. Supernova decision : screw it let's go up this ramp => Every terran unit die instantly.
His main was getting hit, He had to commit once he lost his SCVs to storms.
On August 30 2013 19:32 samurai80 wrote: Come on Supernova... Overstimming units, then getting one big storm => no HP. Supernova decision : screw it let's go up this ramp => Every terran unit die instantly.
Or maybe he decided to commit because Zealots were rampaging his main?
On August 30 2013 19:34 Relaaja wrote: That was just state of the game. Storm is so strong and it takes insane skills or scv pull to win game in TvP. So frustrating to watch.
On August 30 2013 19:34 Jer99 wrote: Can someone recap how supernova lost his games?
He got immortal busted in game 1 of the first series. Game 2 was pretty standard and he got his third denied while falling behind in ghost/viking count vs Dear's templar/colossus count (mainly colossi).
Game 1 of this series was pretty straight-forward, he commited his entire army up a ramp because Dear was harassing his main, got stormed, died.
On August 30 2013 19:28 vthree wrote: seems the MSC is allowing Protoss to get storm way too fast.
It usually doesn't help that much but Supernova's marines seem to enjoy harsh weather.
Well, it is hard when the Protoss starts templar production 2 minutes before terrans starts their ghosts since they have to build medivacs first.
It is definitely hard and requires strong micro. Watch Maru vs Trap from the last OSL as an example of how you play against it.
Maru vs Trap is kinda iirelevant cause hellbats. Maru vs Rain game at star station is kinda more relevant, but it was Rain choking. Only valid tutorial is TaeJa vs Rain series IMO.
On August 30 2013 19:28 vthree wrote: seems the MSC is allowing Protoss to get storm way too fast.
Yeah, it's really disgusting, I don't see what Terran is even supposed to do.
That is why terrans are pulling SCVs
Well, personally I'm just losing all my TvPs while staying ahead for 90% of the game, but yeah. I wonder if mech is the answer? Like some games I win most of the battles but I can't finish it because of storm and then this allows the Protoss to get up a nice templar count and then colossi which becomes really hard to deal with.
MSC is just such a cop out unit, I feel like maybe they should reduce the maximum mana so that you can only cast one photon overcharge. Sometimes what you can do as Terran is pick up right after he casts photon overcharge and try to drop the main but depending on the timing they might have two charges.
On August 30 2013 19:34 Relaaja wrote: That was just state of the game. Storm is so strong and it takes insane skills or scv pull to win game in TvP. So frustrating to watch.
use ghosts dude and your mobility
It is really hard if protoss is smart enough to spead templars all over the map.
On August 30 2013 19:34 Relaaja wrote: That was just state of the game. Storm is so strong and it takes insane skills or scv pull to win game in TvP. So frustrating to watch.
use ghosts dude and your mobility
It is really hard if protoss is smart enough to spead templars all over the map.
On August 30 2013 19:28 vthree wrote: seems the MSC is allowing Protoss to get storm way too fast.
It usually doesn't help that much but Supernova's marines seem to enjoy harsh weather.
Well, it is hard when the Protoss starts templar production 2 minutes before terrans starts their ghosts since they have to build medivacs first.
It is definitely hard and requires strong micro. Watch Maru vs Trap from the last OSL as an example of how you play against it.
Exactly the issue, the terran has to OUTMICRO the protoss. Just like zerg has to OUTMICRO 4M with muta ling bling.
If both sides have similar micro P>T, T>Z.
Not really, there's other ways to win TvP. Taeja didn't outmicro Rain, he just played well.
Taeja definitely outmicro'ed Rain. In late game TvP engagements, the terran just have more units they need to micro compare to Protoss.
You're kidding right? MSC, templar, sentries, with multiple spells from each. T has ghosts...
Late game? Sentries just use guardian shield... And terrans have to micro their bio ball... I think that is the big difference. Terrans has to micro their bio ball while charglots are 1 A...
not enough scv pulling from Supernova, not that he really had a chance vs. sOs or Dear D: Kinda wish sOs didn't win the pvp cuz I wanted to see him play PvT~
★★ - Not recommended unless you have nothing better to do (1)
10%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
10%
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (1)
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★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
0%
10 total votes
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Poll: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
★★★★★ - One of the best games this season (7)
78%
★★★ - Good game (1)
11%
★★★★ - Highly recommended game (1)
11%
★ - Do not watch this game no matter what (0)
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9 total votes
Your vote: Recommend Final Match Game 3?
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On August 30 2013 19:28 vthree wrote: seems the MSC is allowing Protoss to get storm way too fast.
It usually doesn't help that much but Supernova's marines seem to enjoy harsh weather.
Well, it is hard when the Protoss starts templar production 2 minutes before terrans starts their ghosts since they have to build medivacs first.
It is definitely hard and requires strong micro. Watch Maru vs Trap from the last OSL as an example of how you play against it.
Exactly the issue, the terran has to OUTMICRO the protoss. Just like zerg has to OUTMICRO 4M with muta ling bling.
If both sides have similar micro P>T, T>Z.
Not really, there's other ways to win TvP. Taeja didn't outmicro Rain, he just played well.
Taeja definitely outmicro'ed Rain. In late game TvP engagements, the terran just have more units they need to micro compare to Protoss.
You're kidding right? MSC, templar, sentries, with multiple spells from each. T has ghosts...
There are like no Sentries in lategame engagements. MSC can cast its spells before the fight begins. Templars mostly use Storms. Yes, Terran has only one spellcaster, but guess what, micro isn't only "casting spells".
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
On August 30 2013 19:48 Arceus wrote: SuNo pays badly for all the scv pulls he did last season. Justice claims another victim after that zerg. Whos next?
On August 30 2013 19:48 Arceus wrote: SuNo pays badly for all the scv pulls he did last season. Justice claims another victim after that zerg. Whos next?
On August 30 2013 19:47 Dodgin wrote: LOL WHAT HAPPENED
i stopped watching intently because it looked like supernova had it
TvP is to Terran what ZvT is to Zerg. It doesn't matter if you have a 30 supply lead because a few mistakes here and there and Widow Mines/Storm will tear your army apart in seconds.
On August 30 2013 19:48 Arceus wrote: SuNo pays badly for all the scv pulls he did last season. Justice claims another victim after that zerg. Whos next?
Hyvaa and Bbyong
Two of our finalist this season <3.
It shall be a final the likes of which nobody cares about since Hyun vs Sniper
On August 30 2013 19:48 Arceus wrote: SuNo pays badly for all the scv pulls he did last season. Justice claims another victim after that zerg. Whos next?
Hyvaa and Bbyong
hyvaa plays 200 macro games last OSL included a wtfawesome game against Rain And we can all forgive terrans in the hellbat era. Bbyong did play a drawn-out game with Bomber though
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure. The one thing that the pre-nerf hellbats did was that it forced stalkers out of the protoss. They could defend hellbats just with Nexus canon. The gas spent on stalkers slowed down the upgrades and the AoE tech.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
On August 30 2013 19:47 Aquila- wrote: Lol entire army perfectly EMPd, 2 bunkers, Protoss still a moved through everything. Seems legit.
Yes it was legit, Dear had better upgrades
Thats the point ... He had the same supply, better upgrades and was 2bases vs 3 ......
That game also showed what happens when Terran tries to get blueflame hellbats, he just dies because you cant afford medivacs and upgrades and ghosts and blueflame and a second factory...
On August 30 2013 19:48 Arceus wrote: SuNo pays badly for all the scv pulls he did last season. Justice claims another victim after that zerg. Whos next?
Hyvaa and Bbyong
hyvaa plays 200 macro games last OSL included a wtfawesome game against Rain And we can all forgive terrans in the hellbat era. Bbyong did play a drawn-out game with Bomber though
Hyvaa killed Leenock and also had that one series against Fantasy..he must pay for his sins.
Bbyong just for the hell of it. He's like Alive 2.0 without a big win.
On August 30 2013 19:47 Dodgin wrote: LOL WHAT HAPPENED
i stopped watching intently because it looked like supernova had it
TvP is to Terran what ZvT is to Zerg. It doesn't matter if you have a 30 supply lead because a few mistakes here and there and Widow Mines/Storm will tear your army apart in seconds.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
And Scarlett beat Maru... So I guess TvZ is fine as well...
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
And Scarlett beat Maru... So I guess TvZ is fine as well...
On August 30 2013 19:47 Dodgin wrote: LOL WHAT HAPPENED
i stopped watching intently because it looked like supernova had it
TvP is to Terran what ZvT is to Zerg. It doesn't matter if you have a 30 supply lead because a few mistakes here and there and Widow Mines/Storm will tear your army apart in seconds.
On August 30 2013 19:46 Ramiz1989 wrote: Hellbats, too late.
Since the Hellbat nerf (which something was needed because TvT was ridiculous) Hellbats are surprisingly barely ever used anymore.
Same with Infestors. People are way to quick to completely refuse to used a nerfed unit, even if it was borderline OP before nerf.
It's not that those units are bad anymore. It's that they both have the problem that you cannot really include the in a build anymore. Hellbats are not really worth the extra techlab+blue flame upgrade just to start at 15min to reactor them out. HotS 75energy Infestors cannot counter marines anymore and you lack the time to get them to 200energy.
In theory you still want them... just not at their previous 10min timings, but rather when you have a lead and can sit on that lead for sometime.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
On August 30 2013 19:47 Dodgin wrote: LOL WHAT HAPPENED
i stopped watching intently because it looked like supernova had it
TvP is to Terran what ZvT is to Zerg. It doesn't matter if you have a 30 supply lead because a few mistakes here and there and Widow Mines/Storm will tear your army apart in seconds.
On August 30 2013 19:46 Ramiz1989 wrote: Hellbats, too late.
Since the Hellbat nerf (which something was needed because TvT was ridiculous) Hellbats are surprisingly barely ever used anymore.
Same with Infestors. People are way to quick to completely refuse to used a nerfed unit, even if it was borderline OP before nerf.
Dunno in what reality you live, but I see infestors on a regular basis against protoss and here and there against terran. Hellbats on the other hand, yeah very surprinsingly that a 40% dmg nerf against the priority targets (while it was only broken in TvT) makes a unit become unused. Very short day, sleept a little longer and missed everything. wtf?
and to TvP: korean Protoss start realizing that Templar first is way superior right now thx to nexus cannon. In WoL it was hard at times to get to the storm tech without taking to much dmg, but these days, protoss can be a) teching greedier and b) has a later (and smaller) timing window of being vulnerable to the stim/medivac pressure. Also it is much harder to hit the transition to colossus than it is to hit the transition to templar, because you just get ghosts anyway, while getting 10 vikings blindly can mean defeat by itself.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure. The one thing that the pre-nerf hellbats did was that it forced stalkers out of the protoss. They could defend hellbats just with Nexus canon. The gas spent on stalkers slowed down the upgrades and the AoE tech.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
Yeah I think the timings vs protoss are still there, just that terran has to commit so much more that it really requires insane decision making like bomber shows.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure. The one thing that the pre-nerf hellbats did was that it forced stalkers out of the protoss. They could defend hellbats just with Nexus canon. The gas spent on stalkers slowed down the upgrades and the AoE tech.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
Yeah I think the timings vs protoss are still there, just that terran has to commit so much more that it really requires insane decision making like bomber shows.
So basically SCV pulls which all the Protoss players are calling flukes...
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
Nice, next time you challenge my authority I'll grudgematch you
I'm also totally not biased. Everything HerO loses to is horribly imbalanced though.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
I don't think bio has to be buffed. But maybe make it so Protoss can't upgrade and tech AoE with minimal units. MSC just provides too big of a safety net ATM.
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
i haven't played sc2 ever hah (ladder)
i've played a few games of like nexus wars + campaign but that's about it rofl
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
I've never played SC2 in my life so I am the most unbiased person on TL
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
Nice, next time you challenge my authority I'll grudgematch you
I'm also totally not biased. Everything HerO loses to is horribly imbalanced though.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
I think any buff to bio units would be plain stupid, because they are already way to cost efficiant (for low tech units). Normally low tech units should be the meat of the army and the high tech units should provide cost efficiancy (this is how Zerg and Protoss work btw.). But Terran in that regard is a design blunder, because the high tech units are not cost efficiant at all against Zerg and Protoss (with the exception of ghosts against Protoss - and they are not even that high tech), even more they are pretty much useless. So we end up having those (too) strong low tier units with their massive single target dmg. No sane person would advice blizzard to buff bio. I would love to see a small stimpack nerf in favor of making all the other units viable. look at that list of useless units: Hellbats - TvT only Siege Tanks - very rarely used in TvZ, pretty much TvT only Banshee - TvT only Raven - TvT only Battle Cruiser - TvT only
The only Zerg AND Protoss unit I can think of being only used in mirrors or not at all is the Carrier (and this only stayed in the game, because of the fluff) The only deviation we see in terran play takes place in the first minutes of the game. once we reach midgame it allways ends up the exact same unit compositions, in both non mirror matchups. And this is not a balance issue, but a big design flaw.
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
He got banned for a few weeks for bashing Supernova last time which means he'd already gathered a bunch of previous bans, frequent warnings, etc. The ban note said he'd get one last chance. Now he came back and did the exact same thing again.
Previous bans and warnings include frequent balance whine and player bashing, at least that's what I remember from LRs. He didn't seem like a bad person or anything... just rather careless with his posts.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
i haven't played sc2 ever hah (ladder)
i've played a few games of like nexus wars + campaign but that's about it rofl
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
Maybe it's my english skills but I don't understand most of the moderations. But I guess I shouldn't talk about that here anymore. TBH I'm getting frightened to post anything right now.
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
He got banned for a few weeks for bashing Supernova last time which means he'd already gathered a bunch of previous bans, frequent warnings, etc. The ban note said he'd get one last chance. Now he came back and did the exact same thing again.
Previous bans and warnings include frequent balance whine and player bashing, at least that's what I remember from LRs. He didn't seem like a bad person or anything... just rather careless with his posts.
Yeah I felt that his average posts were slightly negative/bashing/criticizing, but they were not really like going over a certain limit of tolerance. Anyway, sorry for this, I was just wondering.
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
honestly that explains a lot, people will be biased
I haven't played SC2 much in almost 3 years so I am the most unbiased person on TL
i haven't played sc2 ever hah (ladder)
i've played a few games of like nexus wars + campaign but that's about it rofl
On August 30 2013 20:28 samurai80 wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:08 DarkLordOlli wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:07 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:00 Emzeeshady wrote:
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Posting history.
I've been through his recent history right now (about 20 last posts), I cannot see anything even temp ban worthy. I assume there is some older history with this guy or there is somthing I don't understand.
I have been banned twice in the past and I know well why it happened but not in this guy's case.
On August 30 2013 20:18 opterown wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:14 GolemMadness wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:08 sAsImre wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:07 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
On August 30 2013 20:00 Emzeeshady wrote:
On August 30 2013 19:53 lichter wrote: Bbyong is my pick for worst player in Code S but will somehow make it out of his groups this season
So hes the Supernova of last season? I can buy that even though Bbyong is better.
User was banned for this post.
Why was he banned? xD
I mean he's really a pain in the ass tonight, but I don't see how this was ban worthy.
Maybe it's my english skills but I don't understand most of the moderations. But I guess I shouldn't talk about that here anymore. TBH I'm getting frightened to post anything right now.
Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
AND the games were weak D:
I personally will mentally connect it with disbanding part. Also, obviously they are all sad that JangBi retired and think of it themselves. + Show Spoiler +
Damn, korean sc2 scene is in pretty poor place now, compared to.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
On August 30 2013 21:03 lolfail9001 wrote: Saddest GSL group ever: 1 player, who retired couple of days before group was planned to be played, and 3 players from 3 different teams, that are on the verge of disbanding citing serious sponsor issues.
AND the games were weak D:
AND the usual casters weren't even there
AND we still haven't seen a game on Frost xD
Your Frost fetish is weird
Simply it is good map that never ever will be played on except that one Dream vs Bbyong game and semifinals-finals matches.
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 19:46 stuchiu wrote: 0-3 always beats 1-1.
Yeah, though MSC was pretty lame saving nexuses multiple times for free, if he was not so far behind on upgrades he should have won some of those engagements. He even got off a lot of good EMPs off but without the upgrades you can't compete.
I think that is the problem with PvT now (ZvT has its own issues). The MSC is just allowing so much freedom for protoss. They can be aggressive with their army. They can also be defensive and just tech (fast upgrades AND AoE tech). This was very risky in WoL, but with MSC, they are safe from almost all pressure.
I think SuperNova would have won that game if he pulled SCVs to attacked the natural.
idk about PvT balance, if you saw Taeja vs Rain, dat stomping lol
So Rain losing one series means PvT is fine ?
It's funny though, I as a protoss player always thought PvT is actually T favourited and don't understand the complaining from the terran players. like if there was any, even the smallest, buff to bio units, T would just roll over the P...
I think any buff to bio units would be plain stupid, because they are already way to cost efficiant (for low tech units). Normally low tech units should be the meat of the army and the high tech units should provide cost efficiancy (this is how Zerg and Protoss work btw.). But Terran in that regard is a design blunder, because the high tech units are not cost efficiant at all against Zerg and Protoss (with the exception of ghosts against Protoss - and they are not even that high tech), even more they are pretty much useless. So we end up having those (too) strong low tier units with their massive single target dmg. No sane person would advice blizzard to buff bio. I would love to see a small stimpack nerf in favor of making all the other units viable. look at that list of useless units: Hellbats - TvT only Siege Tanks - very rarely used in TvZ, pretty much TvT only Banshee - TvT only Raven - TvT only Battle Cruiser - TvT only
The only Zerg AND Protoss unit I can think of being only used in mirrors or not at all is the Carrier (and this only stayed in the game, because of the fluff) The only deviation we see in terran play takes place in the first minutes of the game. once we reach midgame it allways ends up the exact same unit compositions, in both non mirror matchups. And this is not a balance issue, but a big design flaw.
Marine, marauder, medivac, widow mine and marine, marauder, medivac, viking, ghost are actually quite different and you play them completely different against Z and P. I don't understand why people think the focus on the game should be on high tech units. It's not actually difficult to make a brood lord or a colossus and you can't micro them that much either. I would rather see a player win because they can split marines and drop in 10 locations rather than just because they can make brood lords or high templar. And that's why I prefer terran. Obviously I'm exaggerating but when people complain about not auto-winning just for making high-tech units it baffles me.
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
Don't think you can point to Supernova's stomping and say that Protoss imba. He really had very bad engagements. Kept on getting stormed and sitting in them while his ghosts rarely managed to get the high templars. Probably a bad day since his micro is usually top knotch.
Look at Bomber's timings, look at Taeja vs protoss. Obviously Terran requires more micro and apm but that's nothing new. Toss have their own deficiencies. And don't think its a design flaw that the longer games go, the higher the win rate for Toss. They are supposed to be the highest "tech" race. Toss early game is ok with Mothercore defense but there's the huge period between early game and late late game that's anyone's chance to win. Its virtually impossible to balance early, mid and late. There's always some timings when one race is much more effective.
Admittedly psy storm is really killer vs MMM but that's why Khydarian amulet was removed. I hate playing Tosses that go templar heavy cause if they space them out and come into engagements from every direction, you're going to miss one or two and one well-placed storm is all you need to lose the game, but Supernova didn't dictate the game. Even when he was ahead, he made errors that gave up the advantage.
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
pretty sure late game T>P, no?
Really? when both have the huge banks and multiple bases, i thought its more Toss favored? They can do that warp prism 10-12 zealot warp in harass and keep on using templars to prevent a full head to head engagement and just wear down the terran since eventually something will crack at base defense.
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 22:11 MCDayC wrote: Seriously, I was there live, I'm pretty sure I appeared on camera with a sign, you're all making me feel invisible
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
pretty sure late game T>P, no?
debatable but who cares? Just play the game and let Blizzard deal with the patching. Besides, having some OP units can make for an exciting game
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
they could maybe buff the raven, especially PDD is very specific to TvP and TvT
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
On August 31 2013 01:12 openbox1 wrote: Don't think you can point to Supernova's stomping and say that Protoss imba. He really had very bad engagements. Kept on getting stormed and sitting in them while his ghosts rarely managed to get the high templars. Probably a bad day since his micro is usually top knotch.
Look at Bomber's timings, look at Taeja vs protoss. Obviously Terran requires more micro and apm but that's nothing new. Toss have their own deficiencies. And don't think its a design flaw that the longer games go, the higher the win rate for Toss. They are supposed to be the highest "tech" race. Toss early game is ok with Mothercore defense but there's the huge period between early game and late late game that's anyone's chance to win. Its virtually impossible to balance early, mid and late. There's always some timings when one race is much more effective.
Admittedly psy storm is really killer vs MMM but that's why Khydarian amulet was removed. I hate playing Tosses that go templar heavy cause if they space them out and come into engagements from every direction, you're going to miss one or two and one well-placed storm is all you need to lose the game, but Supernova didn't dictate the game. Even when he was ahead, he made errors that gave up the advantage.
lol, Toss early game is OK with MSC? The MSC is very good until mid-late game... The MSC always let's the toss to get AoE so early that the templar count will always be above the gjhost count.
problem is you need marines+medivacs+ micro to beat a-move chargelots.
On August 30 2013 11:55 lichter wrote: If a Code S player who just got 6th place is mediocre (playstyle notwithstanding), I pity all the Challenger league guys out there
mediocre in the context of the Korean scene. He got 6th threw lucky groups and SCV pulls.
I could be proved wrong of course. We will see tonight.
emzee u are the biggest hater ever lol. someone doesn't get to code s this many times and is "mediocre" or "lucky"
On August 30 2013 23:49 klup wrote: the actual problem of TvP is that if you list what both race gained from Hots you will see the obvious imbalance :
Terran :
WM : used only to defend some cheese and to go for drops with a very random effectiveness
Hellbat : not used anymore
speedmedivac : the only good improvement for terran in TvP. Force protossmidgame to be more defensive than wol
upgraded reaper : very good scout necessary to scout properly the various allin/pressure of protoss that came out from the exact same opening , useless after 8 minute in game.
Protoss : Mothership core make you virtually untouchable before 10 minutes. Ultra fast tech/ fast expand /fast upgrade.
Oracle : new pressure early game -> force terran to scout or play safe. Can scout entire army mid/late game
Phenix : made viable because of powerful oracle opening + MSC super defense.
Cheap DT : better allin and improved harass late game
faster WP : drop on terran base unpunished because of speed > viking speed.
In wol times it was common knowledge that deathball protoss> terran bio in late game. So now with the early/mid game shifted in protoss favor principally because of MSC and a multitude of new allins, you basically go to the point terrans have to SCV pull to win in the small midgame timingwindow to hope 'crossfinger' win with this fight.
Revert hellbat nerf is obviously not a solution but thinking about a smarter transition for bio hellbat is the only option right now to rebalance the matchup, buffing every other 'bio' unit will make ZvT completely imbalance
pretty sure late game T>P, no?
NO?
Mass Orbitals Sacrifice all scvs and gain a 40-60 army supply advantage while mining from mass mule Unlimited amount of scans to pick of observers and snipe templars
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Puranfo.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/r9ZH0.png)
![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/e/ea/Gomtv_ico.jpg)
GOMTV | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/7/7f/Twitch_ico.png)
WCS GSL ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6wl40.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/26.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/958.jpg)
SuperNova vs 
Dear![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/63.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/1101.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/l5YZ8.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/3wcCS.png)
![[image loading]](http://img.dailygame.co.kr/news/201109/attachments/20110909_7c53b6903ebe1b015dfbf051d50ac9ce.jpg)
Interestingly enough, the little pic in matchup section moreso then the big one in follow up post. I still can't believe this is true and somehow hope I will wake up from bad dream and he will play tomorrow... 
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LQAgYSK.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ORsCmjz.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/lK2K79P.jpg)
