On August 26 2013 00:43 Waise wrote: playoffs exist specifically because the best player does not necessarily win. that's just fact. if we were looking for the best player, we would just crown a winner based on total season results
what makes playoffs exciting is the potential for an upset and for crazy events going on in each single game. and there's nothing wrong with that. playoffs are a fan tribute, not a way of determining skill. as long as we accept this, there should be no problem...
But the winner of Blizzcon MUST be the best in the world right? To be honest I think it's a pretty fair point system allowing for fluctuations in form over the year. Winning Blizzcon is massive.
On August 26 2013 00:17 Bagi wrote: Scarletts ZvT was miles ahead of Jaedongs.
She could've made the finals great, but alas.
ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
How does that even make sense. Do you believe Bomber ist he best player in the world? :x Not to mention that a close-loss to him doesn't make you second best in the world...
Taeja also lost close to him. Also 2nd best? :x
It was the world championship finals. Winning it gives Bomber a good claim to be the best player in the world.
taeja and inno both have better TvZ and at least taeja is better at TvP. it's really only TvT in which bomber is better than taeja and inno, which sucks when they meet head to head.
I doubt inno has better t v z, we really only see him playing soulkey. As t v p, bomber is absolutely a beast, no doubt he would stormed first 4-0 if he advanced.
lol, inno having worse tvz than bomber? you just disqualified for every discusiion ever. you also make it sound like soulkey is bad at zvt. he is probably the best zvt player on the planet.
i agree innovation is almost unbeatable in tvz .. even when he is terribly behind .. SK is no joke in zvt .. he is the only player i know who really knows how to put terrans off their normal game
I can't believe how much jaedong has improved his zvp. A month ago he was written off in the matchup know as pvjaedong where even foreigners would stomp him, but now he's a serious contended for best zvp on the planet with the formidable lineup of protoss' he's taken out this season.
All he's gotta do is go back and refine his zvt and we'll be seeing a resurgence of the old BW Jaedong.
On August 26 2013 00:37 HomeWorld wrote: Scarlett second best player in the world. Jaedong doesn't even compares to her grasp of TvZ
She's far from being the second best in the world, but clearly her TvZ is much better.
Compare her match against Bomber from yesterday with Jaedong vs Bomber. Freaking big difference, to the point you might say how the hell that rookie(Jaedong) got in finals and be squashed so hard. Point is Scarlett's ZvT > Jaedong's ZvT by several light years.
On August 26 2013 00:17 Bagi wrote: Scarletts ZvT was miles ahead of Jaedongs.
She could've made the finals great, but alas.
ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
How does that even make sense. Do you believe Bomber ist he best player in the world? :x Not to mention that a close-loss to him doesn't make you second best in the world...
Taeja also lost close to him. Also 2nd best? :x
It was the world championship finals. Winning it gives Bomber a good claim to be the best player in the world.
I think the problem is mostly that "best player in the world" has different meanings for different people. The best player this weekend was definitely Bomber, but he did lose to Rain and there's no guarantee he would've beat Maru either.
Some people want the best player in the world to just be the player with the best recent performances, which is definitely Bomber. Other people want "the best player in the world" to be the best without there being pretty legitimate "yes, but..." which isn't the case for anyone right now. Taeja barely lost and showed pretty good games for a long time, Rain wasn't on point this weekend but he did beat Bomber, Innovation is still really really good, Soulkey definitely didn't go anywhere, sOs/Flash/Life might have risen to new heights while we weren't looking, Jaedong still has 4 premier second places in 4 months, the most of any player ever.
I guess if forced most people would agree on Bomber being the best player right now, but right now that isn't a comfortable position at all
On August 26 2013 00:17 Bagi wrote: Scarletts ZvT was miles ahead of Jaedongs.
She could've made the finals great, but alas.
ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
Absolutely no.
She's definitely top 10.
I persoanlly think lif is still way way better, and liffe is probably not top 10 anymore.
Life is really dominant early game. But just dies later on.
but if we take this tournament where Scarlett almost beat Bomber as evidence of her incredible skill, should we not also look at RSL and say Life is better than Scarlett 100%?
No, you're right we shouldn't. Lets not all make power ranks based on just this tournament.
Yup, and Life lost to hyvaa in challenger league, therefore hyvaa is even better.
On August 26 2013 00:37 HomeWorld wrote: Scarlett second best player in the world. Jaedong doesn't even compares to her grasp of TvZ
She's far from being the second best in the world, but clearly her TvZ is much better.
Compare her match against Bomber from yesterday with Jaedong vs Bomber. Freaking big difference, to the point you might say how the hell that rookie(Jaedong) got in finals and be squashed so hard. Point is Scarlett's ZvT > Jaedong's ZvT by several light years.
So because Scarlett has a better TvZ than Jaedong, she's second best player in the world? Ignoring the fact that you can't really conclude that one of them is better than the other at a matchup just from one series of games, the logic is flawless congratulations!
On August 26 2013 00:22 Killmouse wrote: since scarlett 2-3 Bomber in a nailbiting series, can we say Scarlett is the best ZvTer?
no
Actually I would argue an emphatic yes. Bomber can't out macro scarlett, look at game 1 of Bomber Scarlett. Game 4 was a economy game but game 1 was simply scarlett being way better against bomber.
Yet Bomber jes outmacro jaedong in game 1,2,4. Simple march of marine medic mines. While Jaedong have certainly overcomed his JvP, it seems hes neglected his JvT
On August 26 2013 00:43 Waise wrote: playoffs exist specifically because the best player does not necessarily win. that's just fact. if we were looking for the best player, we would just crown a winner based on total season results
what makes playoffs exciting is the potential for an upset and for crazy events going on in each single game. and there's nothing wrong with that. playoffs are a fan tribute, not a way of determining skill. as long as we accept this, there should be no problem...
But the winner of Blizzcon MUST be the best in the world right? To be honest I think it's a pretty fair point system allowing for fluctuations in form over the year. Winning Blizzcon is massive.
Was Italy the best team in the world when they won the World Cup ? Nope. Were they called World Champions for 4 years ? Yup. In all of the sports the champion is the one that wins the final, not the best player.
On August 26 2013 00:17 Bagi wrote: Scarletts ZvT was miles ahead of Jaedongs.
She could've made the finals great, but alas.
ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
How does that even make sense. Do you believe Bomber ist he best player in the world? :x Not to mention that a close-loss to him doesn't make you second best in the world...
Taeja also lost close to him. Also 2nd best? :x
It was the world championship finals. Winning it gives Bomber a good claim to be the best player in the world.
taeja and inno both have better TvZ and at least taeja is better at TvP. it's really only TvT in which bomber is better than taeja and inno, which sucks when they meet head to head.
I doubt inno has better t v z, we really only see him playing soulkey. As t v p, bomber is absolutely a beast, no doubt he would stormed first 4-0 if he advanced.
lol, inno having worse tvz than bomber? you just disqualified for every discusiion ever. you also make it sound like soulkey is bad at zvt. he is probably the best zvt player on the planet.
SK definitely was. Then he lost to SuperNova in standard game. IMO I rate Scarlett top 3 ZvTers in the world currently. Bomber is a beast, but real reason of him rolling First every time in HotS is some kind of trickery 'only he knows'
On August 26 2013 00:43 Waise wrote: playoffs exist specifically because the best player does not necessarily win. that's just fact. if we were looking for the best player, we would just crown a winner based on total season results
what makes playoffs exciting is the potential for an upset and for crazy events going on in each single game. and there's nothing wrong with that. playoffs are a fan tribute, not a way of determining skill. as long as we accept this, there should be no problem...
But the winner of Blizzcon MUST be the best in the world right? To be honest I think it's a pretty fair point system allowing for fluctuations in form over the year. Winning Blizzcon is massive.
i'm not saying it's meaningless or that the winner shouldn't get respect. in tournaments you have to show up on game day and perform, that's the nature of tournaments. but in no way does that prove anything factually about who's "number 1", as if that even means anything. it's plain statistics. fewer games and fewer matchups between different players = less reliable data to draw conclusions from
honestly all the top 10, 20, 100 players are capable of providing us with great games, i don't see the importance of #1 unless you're a fanboy
poor poor jaedong, he is now officialy the yellow of sc2...for jds excuse.. he played only zvp and some zvz in the past 2 months so at this tourney only zvp...
On August 26 2013 00:17 Bagi wrote: Scarletts ZvT was miles ahead of Jaedongs.
She could've made the finals great, but alas.
ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
How does that even make sense. Do you believe Bomber ist he best player in the world? :x Not to mention that a close-loss to him doesn't make you second best in the world...
Taeja also lost close to him. Also 2nd best? :x
It was the world championship finals. Winning it gives Bomber a good claim to be the best player in the world.
taeja and inno both have better TvZ and at least taeja is better at TvP. it's really only TvT in which bomber is better than taeja and inno, which sucks when they meet head to head.
I doubt inno has better t v z, we really only see him playing soulkey. As t v p, bomber is absolutely a beast, no doubt he would stormed first 4-0 if he advanced.
lol, inno having worse tvz than bomber? you just disqualified for every discusiion ever. you also make it sound like soulkey is bad at zvt. he is probably the best zvt player on the planet.
I said I doubt inno had better. And I never buy this soulkey hyper. He really only beat MKP in z v t in a long time. He lost to supernova for god sake, how can anyone claim he is that good.
On August 26 2013 00:22 ForTehDarkseid wrote: [quote] ZvZ would be better than ZvT? You mad.
Games would've probably been closer and the storyline of foreigner in the finals would've made it much better for me at least.
Old story: they should have trained harder and played better.
Scarlett might be the second best player in the world. She barely lost to Bomber. I wish we could see her play Taeja.
Absolutely no.
She's definitely top 10.
I persoanlly think lif is still way way better, and liffe is probably not top 10 anymore.
Life is really dominant early game. But just dies later on.
but if we take this tournament where Scarlett almost beat Bomber as evidence of her incredible skill, should we not also look at RSL and say Life is better than Scarlett 100%?
No, you're right we shouldn't. Lets not all make power ranks based on just this tournament.
Yup, and Life lost to hyvaa in challenger league, therefore hyvaa is even better.
Exactly. If people do that kind of thing, it turns into the "Unofficial World Champion" which is a lot of fun but does not determine who is the best player. So no blanket statements based off small results.
EPT
