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On July 24 2013 04:59 stratmatt wrote:
It is pretty ridiculous that just last season soulkey managed to win 4 straight against innovation to win the finals but now that innovation got the better end of the deal every single zerg it seems it crying imba. Innovation just played fucking incredible and you are blind if you saw it as anything else. Hell, dreamhack just had a zvz finals and like a single terran in the top 8.
And the question is, how did he won 4 games straight against Innovation? He cheesed. baneling bust, roach bust, roach baneling 1/1 bust. Then in order to win the only macro game on daybreak, what happened is that Innovation choked and lost a third base to 5 baneling because it was at 25% health and he never repaired it, he gaves for free 2 medivacs full of marine boosted into a bunch of muta while attacking rock with a bunch of marines, given for free to zergling/baneling.
That's my point. Most of win in ZvT against top korean has been through all in or failed cheese from the terran. That's how Symbol has been successful, Life at MLG in early HoTS, SoulKey in GSL final. And it's not only Innovation, Flash is also a beast with bio mines and crushed SK in GSL in macro game.
I mean, just consider the fact that in GSTL TvZ is at 65% (30-16), pro league round 5 it's 70% (21-9), OSL is 71% (15-6). Funny part is when you consider in this case that from the 6 win of zerg, two come from the maru/Kangho match that didn't matter for either of them (6pool against CC first, failed 8/8/8), 2 come from the roach bust of Hyvaa, one come from Symbol today and the last one was Soo against Maru, 2 base roach bane all in.
See my point? I don't want to dismiss how good Innovation is, it's pretty clear that even if terran gets nerfed/Zerg buffed he will still be a monster in the match up, but maybe zerg wouldn't have to flip a coin and hope top chose the right all in.
On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please
Life vs Sjow? The number I just said are the same, if not worse, as those of infestor area.
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On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please
*cough* sjow vs life *cough*
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If Innovation would have lost people would have said he can't win without hellbats. But since he won apparently Terran is still OP.
Or maybe people shouldn't confuse balance with player skill.
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On July 24 2013 08:21 partydude89 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please *cough* sjow vs life *cough*
Life also lost to TLO at the same event, and Sortof l awhile ago....lol Clearly ZvZ imba.
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On July 24 2013 08:35 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 08:21 partydude89 wrote:On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please *cough* sjow vs life *cough* Life also lost to TLO, and Sortof lol....
*insert logical argument about TLO and Sortof being on par, if not better than top korean zergs*
So, as shown by my argument, terran is imba.
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On July 24 2013 08:35 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 08:21 partydude89 wrote:On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please *cough* sjow vs life *cough* Life also lost to TLO at the same event, and Sortof l awhile ago....lol Clearly ZvZ imba.
Or JD vs Theognis.
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It's ok if T is a little imba because TvT is such a exciting and tactical MU, in contrast to ZvZ and PvP.
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On July 24 2013 08:53 painkilla wrote:
It's ok if T is a little imba because TvT is such a exciting and tactical MU, in contrast to ZvZ and PvP.
but i think pvp is an exciting and tactical matchup, especially with these new void/zealot charge compositions.
can blizzard buff protoss now?
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On July 24 2013 08:58 partydude89 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 08:53 painkilla wrote:
It's ok if T is a little imba because TvT is such a exciting and tactical MU, in contrast to ZvZ and PvP. but i think pvp is an exciting and tactical matchup, especially with these new void/zealot charge compositions. can blizzard buff protoss now?
Alright, we get it - you like baiting balance talk
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haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_>
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United States97276 Posts
On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_>
He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine
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On July 24 2013 09:03 TimENT wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 08:58 partydude89 wrote:On July 24 2013 08:53 painkilla wrote:
It's ok if T is a little imba because TvT is such a exciting and tactical MU, in contrast to ZvZ and PvP. but i think pvp is an exciting and tactical matchup, especially with these new void/zealot charge compositions. can blizzard buff protoss now? Alright, we get it - you like baiting balance talk
huh? i was just saying that i don't think a race should be more imba because he personally has decided that it's more exciting or tactical. i was doing the same with protoss to show him that it was a stupid argument. i'm not trying to bait anyone.
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Are the vods for Ro8 not free on the Gom channel? wtf? 
EDIT: nvm. I'm an idiot.  found them.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On July 24 2013 09:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_> He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine
I don't remember him ever using hellbats in anything but TvT
The "no hellbats bogus is dead" idea probably came from his beatdown from Bomber, which is, you know, a totally unrelated matchup.
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On July 24 2013 09:57 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 09:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_> He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine I don't remember him ever using hellbats in anything but TvT The "no hellbats bogus is dead" idea probably came from his beatdown from Bomber, which is, you know, a totally unrelated matchup.
Him vs Roro ?
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sweet sweet revenge for innovation. and dat game 1. instant classic. this is how sc2 is supposed to look/be played.
On July 24 2013 09:57 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 09:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_> He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine I don't remember him ever using hellbats in anything but TvT The "no hellbats bogus is dead" idea probably came from his beatdown from Bomber, which is, you know, a totally unrelated matchup.
yup. and we gotta keep in mind that bomber is crushing absolutely ANYBODY in the world when he is on a roll. just like he loses to absolutely ANYBODY in the world when the law of bomber strikes again.
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On July 24 2013 09:57 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 09:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_> He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine I don't remember him ever using hellbats in anything but TvT The "no hellbats bogus is dead" idea probably came from his beatdown from Bomber, which is, you know, a totally unrelated matchup.
He used to hellbat drop plenty of times in tvz.
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On July 24 2013 08:37 partydude89 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 08:35 Thrillz wrote:On July 24 2013 08:21 partydude89 wrote:On July 24 2013 07:58 Ace Frehley wrote:
Amazing
The best player in the world trounces a zerg, and the cries to nerf terran to ground come back
Some people will only be satisfied with end-of-wol terran it seems...
Come back when mid-tier foreign terrans are taking out top korean zergs, please *cough* sjow vs life *cough* Life also lost to TLO, and Sortof lol.... *insert logical argument about TLO and Sortof being on par, if not better than top korean zergs* So, as shown by my argument, terran is imba.
That was a pretty big woosh, are you sure you're not a hobbit?
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Its annoying to see a Zerg play so well all game only to lose half their army to one Widow Mine and then fall behind/lose the game.
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On July 24 2013 09:57 lichter wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2013 09:17 Shellshock1122 wrote:On July 24 2013 09:10 FrostedMiniWheats wrote:
haha I never understood why so many were selling Bogus short against Soulkey becuase hellbats aren't as good anymore
It's not like his macro, micro, and multitasking capabilities aren't phenomenal as well >_> He wasn't really reliant on hellbats in the matchup either. He was always crushing with bio mine I don't remember him ever using hellbats in anything but TvT The "no hellbats bogus is dead" idea probably came from his beatdown from Bomber, which is, you know, a totally unrelated matchup.
The idea came from everyone noticing he used hellbats (like every other Terran). People mistakingly thought he would be worse after hellbats got nerfed. Those same people now think he'd also be worse if mines got nerfed.
What people fail to realize is that Innovation has never *not* been in a ro8 or better in a Code S since he entered Code S. This was during WoL. He made a ro8 and a semi-final in two GSL's in WoL when Terran didn't have hellbats, mines or boosted medivacs and Zerg was considered OP.
And yet people still think he wins because of some Terran imbalance.
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EPT
