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On June 28 2013 21:27 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:20 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
That's still a bunch of players who would have done it.
And maybe others that don't come to mind immediately, maybe others who never got a chance to get to Code S because of the absurdly bad system involved in transferring players between A and S... the same system that allowed terrible players to remain in if they won a single set. Would have but didn't. You can't just make up scenarios where people hypothetically do better than someone to say that he's not the best. You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. And MVP?
In August Mvp 2-0'd the group of death (beating Polt and MC), then beat NesTea, HuK, July and TOP. Aside from HuK I don't see a player who was particularly weak at that point in time.
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On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts.
Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house.
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On June 28 2013 21:29 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts. Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house.
i thought it was melted down ages ago
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On June 28 2013 21:29 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts. Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house.
Still counts at a Prime championship though ^.^
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On June 28 2013 21:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:27 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:20 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Would have but didn't. You can't just make up scenarios where people hypothetically do better than someone to say that he's not the best. You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. And MVP? In August Mvp 2-0'd the group of death (beating Polt and MC), then beat NesTea, HuK, July and TOP. Aside from HuK I don't see a player who was particularly weak at that point in time.
July and TOP
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On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:20 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:19 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
That's still a bunch of players who would have done it.
And maybe others that don't come to mind immediately, maybe others who never got a chance to get to Code S because of the absurdly bad system involved in transferring players between A and S... the same system that allowed terrible players to remain in if they won a single set. Would have but didn't. You can't just make up scenarios where people hypothetically do better than someone to say that he's not the best. You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something.
He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway..
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On June 28 2013 21:30 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:29 Dodgin wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts. Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house. i thought it was melted down ages ago
I remember hearing that but I'm pretty sure it was one of those snarky Fionn jokes and not actually the case.
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On June 28 2013 21:29 Dodgin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts. Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house.
So does FXO but I still don't think FXO has won a GSL yet.
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On June 28 2013 21:31 eGoRama wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:27 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. And MVP? In August Mvp 2-0'd the group of death (beating Polt and MC), then beat NesTea, HuK, July and TOP. Aside from HuK I don't see a player who was particularly weak at that point in time. July and TOP
Did you watch them play? That season was probably the best they'd played (and have played, to this date) in their entire SC2 career.
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On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:20 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Would have but didn't. You can't just make up scenarios where people hypothetically do better than someone to say that he's not the best. You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway..
Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best?
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On June 28 2013 21:31 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:29 Dodgin wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 Dodgin wrote:
Back to the topic of this thread(kind of)
NSH is not only ahead of Prime in the GSTL standings, but they also have a GSL trophy.
Take that, Prime. Haha, I just remembered that ST now has 2 GSL badges. was about to say that NSH has a gsl trophy and ST didn't, like pre-Life era. BTW: Polt won one as polt prime, it counts. Prime doesn't have it anymore though ^_^ Polt took it with him when he left forever ago. I was saying NSH currently has a GSL trophy sitting in their practice house. So does FXO but I still don't think FXO has won a GSL yet.
But FXO has twice as many GSTL trophies as Prime!
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On June 28 2013 21:32 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:31 eGoRama wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:27 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. And MVP? In August Mvp 2-0'd the group of death (beating Polt and MC), then beat NesTea, HuK, July and TOP. Aside from HuK I don't see a player who was particularly weak at that point in time. July and TOP Did you watch them play? That season was probably the best they'd played (and have played, to this date) in their entire SC2 career.
Dont agree, July was so-so and TOP in the finals was like Inca vs NesTea
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On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:20 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Would have but didn't. You can't just make up scenarios where people hypothetically do better than someone to say that he's not the best. You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway..
Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned.
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On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best?
No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best.
And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate.
It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time.
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On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:21 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
You don't seem to understand the concept that brackets can get lucky sometimes. Just look at who beat who... Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned.
I am.
The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though.
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On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time.
You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player.
And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous.
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp
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On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:22 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Hmm, looking at the brackets, it seems like Nestea beat all his opponents and won the tournament, three times. Pretty lucky. Ok I'm done here. I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though.
I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them..
On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp
That's because he is a cute King who loves his people.
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On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp
Change is as good as a holiday ^_^
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On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Ok I'm done here.
I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous.
Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced.
And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot.
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EPT
