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On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp
Watch as he says that Mvp wasn't very good LOL.
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On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:23 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Ok I'm done here.
I was hoping for at least an intelligent discussion but it looks like it's not meant to be. Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them..
Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals...
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On June 28 2013 21:39 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp Watch as he says that Mvp wasn't very good LOL.
Nope, Mvp actually beat good players to earn his titles, as did MMA and DongRaeGu. They were far and away top 3 for the second half of 2011.
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On June 28 2013 21:39 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp Watch as he says that Mvp wasn't very good LOL.
Probably the only way of validating his claims on Nestea, as he was knocked out in July, August and October GSLs all by MVP and none other.
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On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot.
Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point.
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On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Not with your points its not Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals...
SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber...
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On June 28 2013 21:41 Woizit wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:39 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp Watch as he says that Mvp wasn't very good LOL. Probably the only way of validating his claims on Nestea, as he was knocked out in July, August and October GSLs all by MVP and none other.
When NesTea faced Mvp, he got crushed. When he faced MMA or DongRaeGu in group stages, he lost again. He only beat the rest of the players, which is good, but he never beat the top players. Which is why he wasn't the best.
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On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber...
Ouch :/ That truth hurt.
Thank god Leenock wins shit >>
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On June 28 2013 21:44 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Ouch :/ That truth hurt. Thank god Leenock wins shit >>
It sure did.....
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On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber...
Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today.
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On June 28 2013 21:43 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:41 Woizit wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:37 lichter wrote:
A thread devolving into a Nestea thread is pretty rare, usually we just talk about Mvp Watch as he says that Mvp wasn't very good LOL. Probably the only way of validating his claims on Nestea, as he was knocked out in July, August and October GSLs all by MVP and none other. When NesTea faced Mvp, he got crushed. When he faced MMA or DongRaeGu in group stages, he lost again. He only beat the rest of the players, which is good, but he never beat the top players. Which is why he wasn't the best.
Where and when? He lost to MMA in August, but still managed to advance. He then won against MMA in October. Well, I don't know how you want to interpret that, maybe that you'd think MMA is the better player, but I don't think everybody will agree. He lost to DongRaeGu in 2012, which tells me nothing much about what you want to say from mid-2011-early 2012.
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On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today.
A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later.
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On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:24 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Beating terrible players does not make you the best player in the world. Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point.
The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3.
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On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Agreed.
But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later.
See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ...
On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:25 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
Beating the best players of your time makes you the best player in the world at that time. Agreed. But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3.
We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz
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On June 28 2013 21:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later. See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ... Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:26 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
Agreed.
But he didn't beat the best players of his time. He beat fucking Ensnare and InCa. GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3. We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz
Oh I read it, and it's not very believable so I choose to throw it out.
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On June 28 2013 21:57 Thrillz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later. See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ... On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:29 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
GSL July - he beat losira, hongun, ensnare and coca without dropping a map. that counts for something. He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3. We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz Oh I read it, and it's not very believable so I choose to throw it out.
Joined TL.net Wednesday, 23rd of May 2012
Yeah I guess if you haven't seen the games themselves then that's understandable..
Plus buying into Tastosis hype is so easy for a new viewer... which is why it's annoying when they do that.
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oh no i have wasted my 1k post :3
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opterown
Australia54784 Posts
On June 28 2013 21:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:57 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later. See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ... On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3. We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz Oh I read it, and it's not very believable so I choose to throw it out. Joined TL.net Wednesday, 23rd of May 2012 Yeah I guess if you haven't seen the games themselves then that's understandable.. Plus buying into Tastosis hype is so easy for a new viewer... which is why it's annoying when they do that.
join date is no indication of when people started watching, i was into sc2 well before signing up (and i didn't post much in the first few months either), so don't be facetious please
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On June 28 2013 21:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:57 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:33 Wintex wrote:
[quote]
Still... Give the guy some credit. 250k winnings, the most impressive zerg the first year (AT THE LEAST) of SC2 and relevancy for over 3 years in a game when he is around 30 IS INSANE. His prowess has been proven too many times. I have a comparison but i don't really want to get warned. I am. The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later. See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ... On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:31 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
He definitely deserves credit for beating CoCa and LosirA, but you conveniently skipped over the fact that he got a def-win in what was otherwise the weakest Code S group anyway.. Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3. We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz Oh I read it, and it's not very believable so I choose to throw it out. Joined TL.net Wednesday, 23rd of May 2012 Yeah I guess if you haven't seen the games themselves then that's understandable.. Plus buying into Tastosis hype is so easy for a new viewer... which is why it's annoying when they do that.
Well that escalated quicky LOL
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1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
On June 28 2013 22:02 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On June 28 2013 21:59 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:57 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:51 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:49 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:47 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:41 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:38 Wintex wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 MasterOfPuppets wrote:
[quote]
I am.
The only thing I was arguing to begin with, is that past the halfway point of 2011, he was no longer the best Zerg, or best player for that matter. I'd say he was easily 2nd, and top 5 respectively though. I think he was. I didn't think INnoVation was the best player before he won the season finals. It's a matter of how you think about those plateaus and who belongs at them.. Bogus beat the cream of the crop though, both in WCS KR and the Finals... SoulKey could easily take that position too. besides, who cares about who you beat if you don't win shit. You end up like Gumiho or Bomber... Bomber did win something, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away, before he turned into the enigma that he is today. A foreigner tournament where he absolutely demolished DRG and CoCa etc. MAULED. DRG got swept. I deny DRG's superior skill due to that tbh.. he achieved his peak and greatness later. See I would have put Bomber up there as well as contender for best, but the quarters against ByuN was one of the worst series I have watched in SC2 ... On June 28 2013 21:49 Thrillz wrote:On June 28 2013 21:42 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:39 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:36 YoungTyTy wrote:On June 28 2013 21:35 MasterOfPuppets wrote:On June 28 2013 21:32 YoungTyTy wrote:
[quote]
Basically, you're saying he has to beat every good player in the tournament without playing a worse player to be the best? No, but he has to play actual top players to be the best. And I was only refuting your previous point that "he beat everyone, including the other best players, therefore he's the best" which was very obviously inaccurate. It's a very, very naive thing to believe that the champion of a tournament is always the best player in that tournament, even for that little period of time. You're assuming insane amounts of luck for him to win three different GSL tournaments and never once be the best player. And your original point was that you wouldn't argue with someone who thought Nestea was good, which is ludicrous. Oh. He was the best player, at least in the 2nd Open Season, probably in May as well. In fact, like I said, I was only arguing that he stopped being the best player, and even best Zerg player, come mid-2011, and yes I include the July season into that which was extremely lucky for him in terms of opponents faced. And yea that was poorly worded, but at the same time you should understand that NesTea is by far the single most overhyped player in SC2, even moreso than Liquid'HerO and that's saying a lot. Well, maybe next time you shouldn't get halfway into a debate before stating what your argument is. And I don't think he's all that hyped. If so, people are probably just listening to Tastosis too much. All I was arguing is that he was the best at one point. The thing is, he's still probably the most accomplish Zerg, (maybe DRG though)...but Nestea is not lower than 3. We weren't discussing accomplishments, but skill level in a certain period of time. And not that NesTea was bad, but that he was not the best. Read more carefully so I don't have to state the same thing 50 times... zzz Oh I read it, and it's not very believable so I choose to throw it out. Joined TL.net Wednesday, 23rd of May 2012 Yeah I guess if you haven't seen the games themselves then that's understandable.. Plus buying into Tastosis hype is so easy for a new viewer... which is why it's annoying when they do that. join date is no indication of when people started watching, i was into sc2 well before signing up (and i didn't post much in the first few months either), so don't be facetious please
I've been watching since BW but never bothered to make an account
I'm obviously the coolest
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