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Team 8 and EGTL are already eliminated from Playoff Contention. Even if SKT lose all their games 0-4, they will have a differential of -1. The most EGTL and Team 8 can have is -13 and -6 respectively, even if they win all their remaining games 4-0, which will give them a tied record with SKT. However they still have pride to play for as they can still mathematically overtake Samsung Khan for 5th place.
On June 18 2013 10:58 lichter wrote: If EGTL can overtake CJ this season will have been a success.
How? ???
EGTL can still overtake CJ if CJ bomb their remaining games.
I didn't share everyone's bloated enthusiasm for this unholy alliance; I expected EGTL to languish at the bottom because of Proleague format, lack of experience, crazy maps, and players with vulnerable matchups. 5th or 6th is a success in my eyes, while 7th and 8th is about as I expected.
On June 18 2013 10:58 lichter wrote: If EGTL can overtake CJ this season will have been a success.
How? ???
EGTL can still overtake CJ if CJ bomb their remaining games.
I didn't share everyone's bloated enthusiasm for this unholy alliance; I expected EGTL to languish at the bottom because of Proleague format, lack of experience, crazy maps, and players with vulnerable matchups. 5th or 6th is a success in my eyes, while 7th and 8th is about as I expected.
I agree that they should not have been expected to top the league. Making the playoffs was a very legitament goal though. Sadly Taeja got injured, Stephano left and JD didn't play to his potential. I think coming in 6th would be a disappointment.
Another big factor that people didn't take into consideration was the fact that EGTL players have other commitments and tournaments, unlike Kespa teams that will prioritize PL over anything else. Many of EGTL's regulars missed games because of this. Taeja was already known to be injured when PL started, and he was supposed to be their super ace. HerO stepped it up in the later rounds but it just wasn't enough. I didn't expect Stephano to make an impact, only a solid line up guy. I still think 5th - 6th is a good first time in Proleague, especially when you consider how abysmal they looked at the beginning.
Edit: I expected the playoffs to be WJS, CJ, SKT and Khan at the start of the season btw
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
Alive vs TY/Baby looks interesting, but I don't know. Everytime I tune in, literally every time of late TY is playing TvT, I'd love to see his multitask-heavy style get paired up with a solid Zerg.
Granted he probably has played plenty of TvZ, I'm probably just unlucky with the days I happen to be awake for this stuff
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
OSL 2014, Pigbaby vs Madbull in the finals
Pigbaby has a stunning 100% win ratio. He has never lost a professional match in HotS. Madbull is a stud, but his measly 50% can't even come close to touching perfection. We're talking about the difference between a normal stud you see at the beach and Hercules, the son of Zeus.
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
OSL 2014, Pigbaby vs Madbull in the finals
Pigbaby has a stunning 100% win ratio. He has never lost a professional match in HotS. Madbull is a stud, but his measly 50% can't even come close to touching perfection. We're talking about the difference between a normal stud you see at the beach and Hercules, the son of Zeus.
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
OSL 2014, Pigbaby vs Madbull in the finals
Pigbaby has a stunning 100% win ratio. He has never lost a professional match in HotS. Madbull is a stud, but his measly 50% can't even come close to touching perfection. We're talking about the difference between a normal stud you see at the beach and Hercules, the son of Zeus.
I declare Pigbaby the winner of the 2014 OSL.
But he's not even become UWC yet, unlike Bear.
Pigbaby doesn't do anything unofficially. He has no need or desire for paltry titles. His name alone is title enough. His belt is the champion's belt by virtue of being worn by him.
Pigbaby once wrestled a bear for three full rounds. The bear, tragically, lost it's life.
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
OSL 2014, Pigbaby vs Madbull in the finals
Pigbaby has a stunning 100% win ratio. He has never lost a professional match in HotS. Madbull is a stud, but his measly 50% can't even come close to touching perfection. We're talking about the difference between a normal stud you see at the beach and Hercules, the son of Zeus.
I declare Pigbaby the winner of the 2014 OSL.
But he's not even become UWC yet, unlike Bear.
Pigbaby doesn't do anything unofficially. He has no need or desire for paltry titles. His name alone is title enough. His belt is the champion's belt by virtue of being worn by him.
Pigbaby once wrestled a bear for three full rounds. The bear, tragically, lost it's life.
When he ascends to his full power, what does he become?
On June 18 2013 13:01 sc2superfan101 wrote: Pigbaby is the hero this scene needs. As a longtime supporter of keeping e-sports alive, I declare this match a victory for Eighth Team.
OSL 2014, Pigbaby vs Madbull in the finals
Pigbaby has a stunning 100% win ratio. He has never lost a professional match in HotS. Madbull is a stud, but his measly 50% can't even come close to touching perfection. We're talking about the difference between a normal stud you see at the beach and Hercules, the son of Zeus.
I declare Pigbaby the winner of the 2014 OSL.
But he's not even become UWC yet, unlike Bear.
Pigbaby doesn't do anything unofficially. He has no need or desire for paltry titles. His name alone is title enough. His belt is the champion's belt by virtue of being worn by him.
Pigbaby once wrestled a bear for three full rounds. The bear, tragically, lost it's life.
When he ascends to his full power, what does he become?
Other then the early game and no flanking zenio is playing this really well. His early game was pretty bad but he's made a good comeback and is playing extremely well.
Although I wonder if this would have happened if cure went bio/widow mine.
Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
I'd like for Zenio to burrow his Swarm Host in 2 clumps so that the locust clump less and thus tank splash does less damage to them throughout the game. It would have been nice.
Wow, this is a Zenio I haven't seen before What a wacky composition.
Though I still wouldn't past him to just die to drops, but he's got enough of a bank to rebuild one full army (but I feel like in his last proleague appearance he was in a similar situation and still lost because he couldn't get a good engagement).
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
On June 18 2013 15:06 NPF wrote: It makes me think that cure doesn't know blinding cloud since we never see it, he just lets his tanks stay there and not move once under the spell.
Either way he loses his tanks, so it hardly matters
On June 18 2013 15:06 NPF wrote: It makes me think that cure doesn't know blinding cloud since we never see it, he just lets his tanks stay there and not move once under the spell.
Either way he loses his tanks, so it hardly matters
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised we don't see it more, but I guess Terrans basically stopped making tanks because it counters them so hard, and there aren't as many other units that it's effective against (colossus I guess). Regardless of what you do your tanks are dead when under blinding cloud unless the zerg has no ground army, the time it takes to unseige is enough for ultras and lings to close the gap and destroy them.
EGTL have a good roster if they're managed well, and aren't all over the place in foreign tournaments and we're just seeing that, with a little bit of the rub of the green is all they need to pull off results.
I don't think they'll come in next season and tear it up and stomp people by any means, but neither will they do particularly badly.
On June 18 2013 15:06 NPF wrote: It makes me think that cure doesn't know blinding cloud since we never see it, he just lets his tanks stay there and not move once under the spell.
Either way he loses his tanks, so it hardly matters
Regardless of what you do your tanks are dead when under blinding cloud unless the zerg has no ground army you are MVP
On June 18 2013 15:10 Wombat_NI wrote: EGTL have a good roster if they're managed well, and aren't all over the place in foreign tournaments and we're just seeing that, with a little bit of the rub of the green is all they need to pull off results.
I don't think they'll come in next season and tear it up and stomp people by any means, but neither will they do particularly badly.
Yeah it's hard when they constantly don't have their complete roster available for PL... missing Taeja and Jaedong hurts. I was amazed when EG-TL beat SKT1 lacking pretty much half their roster.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
On June 18 2013 15:06 NPF wrote: It makes me think that cure doesn't know blinding cloud since we never see it, he just lets his tanks stay there and not move once under the spell.
Either way he loses his tanks, so it hardly matters
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised we don't see it more, but I guess Terrans basically stopped making tanks because it counters them so hard, and there aren't as many other units that it's effective against (colossus I guess). Regardless of what you do your tanks are dead when under blinding cloud unless the zerg has no ground army, the time it takes to unseige is enough for ultras and lings to close the gap and destroy them.
It's why players who go bio-tank always say that they play the game kinda like bl winfestor era in WoL, do critical damage before hive tech where vipers will shit all over you.
Yay, finally Zenio got that win in PL ! He was improving steadily those last months after being in a slump for such a long time, I'm really glad to see that the training/improvment finally pays off in results, too.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
That isn't true. Hard to use doesn't = bad unit. If used properly they are extremely powerful zvt, if you mess up with them you can lose them all though easily. Which again doesn't mean it's a bad unit.
Indeed Blade. You're quite the swarmhost fan iirc, but more in ZvP. Do they have any potential against Bio-mine, are certain maps with certain terrain features required? I would have thought that locusts wreaking havoc with the mines might have some use, but equally if you screw up with your swarmhosts you can leave yourself open to a big stim forward and carnage. I can't remember the player who tried to use defensive swarmhosts as drop defense, I actually thought that was a good idea. Problem was (it was against Innovation whoever it was), he did a ton of aggression with bane rains and whatnot, so we weren't really seeing this application used in a 'normal' game.
I really like swarmhosts, one of my favourite new units, precisely BECAUSE there's such a clear difference in how players have degrees of competence in using them. Some guys lock down the map, slowly inching forward with an inexorable, never-ending swarm of locusts, some guys completely fuck up and die.
In an ideal SC2 world, there would be more hard to use, but potent in the hands of a good player units, and less Collosus and so on which really gain very little from being controlled by a progamer.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
Thats like saying tanks were bad in WoL because you could lose them all if you didn't siege in time. The problem is that people often use Swarm Hosts ineffectively. Generally people lose them all when they rush swarm host and have no actual army, or put them in positions where they can easily be killed and don't abuse the range the locusts can go.
Swarmhosts in zvt are good on maps like akilon. Maps with not as wide surface, a map like whirlwind it's not very good. You still want to do muta/ling/bane then add swarmhost later as skipping mutalisks for them in zvt you just get picked apart by drops.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
Thats like saying tanks were bad in WoL because you could lose them all if you didn't siege in time. The problem is that people often use Swarm Hosts ineffectively. Generally people lose them all when they rush swarm host and have no actual army, or put them in positions where they can easily be killed and don't abuse the range the locusts can go.
This
It's just like zvp (although I still feel like swarmhosts are used incorrectly a bit). Every zerg (except me and a few others) were saying how shit swarmhosts were and now their pretty popular just because they are a very powerful unit when used correctly. But if you don't know how to use them then the zerg player will just lose.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
Thats like saying tanks were bad in WoL because you could lose them all if you didn't siege in time. The problem is that people often use Swarm Hosts ineffectively. Generally people lose them all when they rush swarm host and have no actual army, or put them in positions where they can easily be killed and don't abuse the range the locusts can go.
I am really excited for the day somebody has the instinctive ability to gauge locust's range before they die and can use this to be a bit more aggressive, popping in and out, rather than the slow-push we quite often see now.
i feel like late-game swarm hosts have a lot of potential, especially if terran retains their mine numbers. life used to always make a single SH just to trigger any mines
I think the thing with EGTL was that people were expecting results too quickly. You have to remember that they just got into their team environment when the season started. Before that HerO was living in a chill TL apartment with HuK, Jinro, Supernova and Haypro or TLO I think, aLive was thinking about quitting, no idea where/how Oz trained with Fnatic and after leaving them, Taeja lives at home and has physical issues, Stephano had probably never been in a practice environment like this, Jaedong just switched over and had to gradually improve, no idea where/how JYP practiced, same with Puma.
HuK has said this on twitter before but practice doesn't pay off instantly, it shows over time.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
Thats like saying tanks were bad in WoL because you could lose them all if you didn't siege in time. The problem is that people often use Swarm Hosts ineffectively. Generally people lose them all when they rush swarm host and have no actual army, or put them in positions where they can easily be killed and don't abuse the range the locusts can go.
I am really excited for the day somebody has the instinctive ability to gauge locust's range before they die and can use this to be a bit more aggressive, popping in and out, rather than the slow-push we quite often see now.
Soulkey showed great mobility in his swarm host play against PartinG in the GSL.
Argh don't remind me DarkLord. I am still annoyed that Liquid didn't pick up Supernova. Him and HerO get on super well, and it would be nice to see him at more foreign tournaments. Hasn't had much luck since oGs folded
On June 18 2013 15:25 Wombat_NI wrote: Argh don't remind me DarkLord. I am still annoyed that Liquid didn't pick up Supernova. Him and HerO get on super well, and it would be nice to see him at more foreign tournaments. Hasn't had much luck since oGs folded
On June 18 2013 15:06 NPF wrote: It makes me think that cure doesn't know blinding cloud since we never see it, he just lets his tanks stay there and not move once under the spell.
Either way he loses his tanks, so it hardly matters
Yeah, I'm a bit surprised we don't see it more, but I guess Terrans basically stopped making tanks because it counters them so hard, and there aren't as many other units that it's effective against (colossus I guess). Regardless of what you do your tanks are dead when under blinding cloud unless the zerg has no ground army, the time it takes to unseige is enough for ultras and lings to close the gap and destroy them.
It's why players who go bio-tank always say that they play the game kinda like bl winfestor era in WoL, do critical damage before hive tech where vipers will shit all over you.
Well, I still go bio tank in HotS but players at my level are not good enough to use vipers so not much changed for me
Oh I know negative, I just would rather have liked TL to have a Code S mainstay, solid Terran, especially given that he ended up in the clasp of Azubu and that shitstorm that is going down
HerO's play is quite interesting lately. Back in the day he seemed to rely more on his mechanics and multitasking, nowadays he still has them but wow he relies so hardcore on mindgames and trickyness. It's strategically smart a lot of what he does, but equally it seems a bit fragile to always be relying on it.
That said, Protoss kind of need mindgames to keep up, all other things being equal.
HerO has always been a super smart player but he often ended up being too smart for his own good by tricking his opponents and them not reacting the way they're supposed to from his point of view
beautiful play by the protoss, I hate that they turned them into such a micro race in starcraft 2 but it's very nice to see when it is done by a professional.
On June 18 2013 15:35 Just_a_Moth wrote: Zenio finally won!
If you didn't watch it you should. Zenio had a crappy early game, but once he hit mid game and what not he really played good. I thought he was going to get crushed but he played very, very well to come back and win the game.
On June 18 2013 15:33 GaliX wrote: amazing Muta read and phoenix productions. Hero would have won Dreamhack with ez
Sad thing is you are probably right with this I feel Dreamhack just feels like it's missing something without HerO at it.
I always tend to piss people off with my HerO fanboyism, but realistically where would people stick him in the Protoss pantheon at present? I'll start low and say he's got to at least be top 10!
There should be a "If you enjoy massive stomps" option for some games. This was one of them
That would be too revealing of the outcome though
Well, check may have massively stomped HerO! But yeah I agree.
2 things Wombat. 1) I never told you this but your choice of animal alone makes you one of my favorite posters, lol 2) I'm gonna be blunt and put him in the top 4. Rain, sOs, Parting, HerO. In no particular order for me
Reading between the lines, it might add a bit much confusion to an already confusing rating system that is more correlative with how many fans the winner/losers have. Exceptions are the truly exceptional Gumiho/Losira calibre games.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
That isn't true. Hard to use doesn't = bad unit. If used properly they are extremely powerful zvt, if you mess up with them you can lose them all though easily. Which again doesn't mean it's a bad unit.
If they're very cost-efficient over the same timespan that you can keep it alive, that is. Sure, theorycrafting-wise over 500 hours I could chip away at the Terran bio army, but it's just too fragile and immobile as fuck without enough burst damage to offset the fact that the locusts are getting shelled across the map...I mean, you keep saying that they're extremely powerful, but tbqh even in that Zenio game just now, you could hear the sounds of at most like 2-5 marines dying per wave to the swarmhosts, and that was when Cure had a pretty small ball. Sure, we could argue that having 20+ swarmhosts would be more powerful, but I sure as fuck wouldn't want an army of 20+ swarmhosts and a spattering of other units on an open map where Terrans have speedvacs and stim.
Man this is why kespa is cutting 4 players from team 8. They're the nsh of kespa. I really think one day kespa will disband team 8 and IM will join pro league.
On June 18 2013 15:42 Canucklehead wrote: Man this is why kespa is cutting 4 players from team 8. They're the nsh of kespa. I really think one day kespa will disband team 8 and IM will join pro league.
On June 18 2013 15:04 raga4ka wrote: Zenio played well . Swarm Host were actually put to good use . Come to think of it they wouldn't be so bad at clearing mines as well if Cure had them .
Swarmhosts are good in zvt, just it is very easy to mess up with them and then lose them all which always sucks.
If it's easy to mess up and lose them all, they're not a good unit.
That isn't true. Hard to use doesn't = bad unit. If used properly they are extremely powerful zvt, if you mess up with them you can lose them all though easily. Which again doesn't mean it's a bad unit.
If they're very cost-efficient over the same timespan that you can keep it alive, that is. Sure, theorycrafting-wise over 500 hours I could chip away at the Terran bio army, but it's just too fragile and immobile as fuck without enough burst damage to offset the fact that the locusts are getting shelled across the map...I mean, you keep saying that they're extremely powerful, but tbqh even in that Zenio game just now, you could hear the sounds of at most like 2-5 marines dying per wave to the swarmhosts, and that was when Cure had a pretty small ball. Sure, we could argue that having 20+ swarmhosts would be more powerful, but I sure as fuck wouldn't want an army of 20+ swarmhosts and a spattering of other units on an open map where Terrans have speedvacs and stim.
You shouldn't get 20 swarmhosts. Should get 10. Anymore is too much supply because of medivacs. It's also map dependent and killing 3-5 marines with 8 swarmhosts isn't a bad deal at all. Their not meant to kill the terran army. They are meant to tank some damage and if they reach it dish it out. Vs widow mines, they set off widow mines, vs tanks they tank a few tank shots so if zerg times his attack correctly he can attack with his locust wave and do more damage.
On June 18 2013 15:45 BoZiffer wrote: Is EG-TL going to go again in PL in this upcoming season?
I think so but there is no 100% confirmation as of yet.
I'd imagine EGTL are returning, especially given their recent recruitment policy and the arrival of the god amongst mortals that is Coach Park. Yeah they still were in with a shot of playoffs when he arrived but I'd always thought this was more for a big push next time around.
I really doubt they'll exit next season. Keep in mind being in Proleague doesn't just give them exposure but it also gives their players the best practice environment out of any foreign team and it's showing. Every foreign tournament EGTL players have attended they've placed very high, WCS America had 3 in the semis, both DHs had two
Oh not to mention the insane benefit of being able to send their foreign players to Korea if they want and have a place to hardcore practice. Look at Snute and how much he's been improving for example.
On June 18 2013 15:52 Ctesias wrote: In-base proxy gates seem awfully common in Proleague.
Maybe it's bound to happen with that many PvP games though.
I'm a Terran player, but I offrace relatively frequently because I figure I'm never going to go pro so why not have some fun? I used to dread PvP though, until recently I made the realization from watching PvProleague that the secret to PvP is to just proxy anything, and after I realized this my winrate in PvP became nonzero and in fact quite good (though the sample size is too small to say much really ). An unscouted proxy robo for immortals, along with 3 warpgates seems to be an insta-win in Platinum/Diamond League. I like to proxy in the natural, because we all know no one expands in PvP.
If I mained Protoss I would scout every inch of my base in PvP.
On June 18 2013 16:09 DarkLordOlli wrote: I really doubt they'll exit next season. Keep in mind being in Proleague doesn't just give them exposure but it also gives their players the best practice environment out of any foreign team and it's showing. Every foreign tournament EGTL players have attended they've placed very high, WCS America had 3 in the semis, both DHs had two
This is a really good point. Revival basically had no LAN results until recently, despite being a pretty okay player for a while. I feel like his proleague experience really kicked his level of skill up a tier, and now his foreign tournament experience is giving him the confidence he needs to kick ass in PL. Or maybe it's just the hair.
Sick cool PvP, Oz was so close to being out of it twice but he's still in and he's had that Nexus up for longer
Terminator will be ahead in upgrades but he won't have colossus and Oz already has blink to deal with a single stargate. 5 immortals out for Terminator though, he's basically relying on cleaning up stalkers with them so his tempests can kill the rest.
Exciting PvP, Oz didn't really seem to know what to do once he saw that he couldn't catch up in the air war.
What's the proper response to seeing that your opponent has tempests when you already have Colossi out? Seems like you can't really blindly go Colossi unless you want to hit a pre-tempest timing, otherwise you're just screwed. Doesn't seem like anything can cost-efficiently deal with Tempests in PvP but having Tempests yourself.
Well, now T8 doesn't look so bad I think. Baby can beat aLive and Pigbaby (...) looked good in PvZ with spot on forcefields. Lets see if they can make a 0-3 a 3-3 and a 4-3 potentially.
On June 18 2013 16:31 Raisa wrote: God OZ was SO far ahead, if only he didnt use 2 nexus cannons to kill 4 zealots. If he would've been able to recall this game would've been over.
Terminator would have still pushed and those colossi would have just died in Oz's natural instead.
On June 18 2013 16:31 Raisa wrote: God OZ was SO far ahead, if only he didnt use 2 nexus cannons to kill 4 zealots. If he would've been able to recall this game would've been over.
Terminator would have still pushed and those colossi would have just died in Oz's natural instead.
On June 18 2013 16:30 HolyArrow wrote: Exciting PvP, Oz didn't really seem to know what to do once he saw that he couldn't catch up in the air war.
What's the proper response to seeing that your opponent has tempests when you already have Colossi out? Seems like you can't really blindly go Colossi unless you want to hit a pre-tempest timing, otherwise you're just screwed. Doesn't seem like anything can cost-efficiently deal with Tempests in PvP but having Tempests yourself.
I feel like you have to have a big army with lots of archons and anti air to keep him from attacking right away so you can safely expand again and then drop more stargates than he has. Oz did a good job of trying to delay the attack with DTs and the warp prism but then got caught in a terrible spot with no recall energy. If that hadn't happened he actually may have been fine with say a blink stalker flank on the tempests when Terminator has to all in from losing that natural nexus, all those probes and production in the main
PvP is a sick mirror because there's actually a lot of different compositions, the early game has a ton of sick micro and intensity and it's still being explored.
Actually starting to overtake TvT in my affections, which I never thought would ever happen. Perhaps it's just the particular games I choose to watch but Tank/Hellbat every game is boring as fuck compared to Marine/Tank mirror, or Marine/Tank vs Mech that we used to see a lot more of.
On June 18 2013 16:30 HolyArrow wrote: Exciting PvP, Oz didn't really seem to know what to do once he saw that he couldn't catch up in the air war.
What's the proper response to seeing that your opponent has tempests when you already have Colossi out? Seems like you can't really blindly go Colossi unless you want to hit a pre-tempest timing, otherwise you're just screwed. Doesn't seem like anything can cost-efficiently deal with Tempests in PvP but having Tempests yourself.
I feel like you have to have a big army with lots of archons and anti air to keep him from attacking right away so you can safely expand again and then drop more stargates than he has. Oz did a good job of trying to delay the attack with DTs and the warp prism but then got caught in a terrible spot with no recall energy
On June 18 2013 16:35 Wombat_NI wrote: PvP is a sick mirror because there's actually a lot of different compositions, the early game has a ton of sick micro and intensity and it's still being explored.
Actually starting to overtake TvT in my affections, which I never thought would ever happen. Perhaps it's just the particular games I choose to watch but Tank/Hellbat every game is boring as fuck compared to Marine/Tank mirror, or Marine/Tank vs Mech that we used to see a lot more of.
Mamacore turns out to be the best thing HoTS has given us lol
Well, except for vT. MSC is a super turtle aid an is a bit too potent in that particular matchup, for my money anyway, I play Protoss and it just seems a bit silly just how much pre-medivac aggression you can stop with barely any units.
Also I agree completely, PvP is such a sick and interesting matchup right now. It's so incredibly on the edge that every little decisionmaking or micro mistake can cost you the game instantly. Which is really damn hard considering almost every unit has a place in PvP.
I pretty much have an 80% winrate vs protoss right now purely from watching Proleague and learning how to react to what correctly.
On June 18 2013 16:35 Wombat_NI wrote: PvP is a sick mirror because there's actually a lot of different compositions, the early game has a ton of sick micro and intensity and it's still being explored.
Actually starting to overtake TvT in my affections, which I never thought would ever happen. Perhaps it's just the particular games I choose to watch but Tank/Hellbat every game is boring as fuck compared to Marine/Tank mirror, or Marine/Tank vs Mech that we used to see a lot more of.
Mamacore turns out to be the best thing HoTS has given us lol
Also, notice how Protoss players actually get a chance to show off their micro in mirror? Quite nice really to see.
Protoss players and compositions are pretty inherently individually microable until the numbers scale. You get to see some real intense micro in PvP consistently that we don't get an outlet for a lot of the time in other matchups where forcefields, storms and collosus are all we have to do half times
I hope aLive pulls this one off, he's been looking vastly improved and a win here would mean he'd close out two matches in a row. That's gotta be a great confidence boost.
On June 18 2013 16:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Well, except for vT. MSC is a super turtle aid an is a bit too potent in that particular matchup, for my money anyway, I play Protoss and it just seems a bit silly just how much pre-medivac aggression you can stop with barely any units.
It also adds another 'make no mistake Terran' to the game. If you believe you can take the fight but you are wrong, you could retreat in WoL, 2 timewarps and you are forced into it. But back to LR :p
On June 18 2013 16:38 Wombat_NI wrote: Well, except for vT. MSC is a super turtle aid an is a bit too potent in that particular matchup, for my money anyway, I play Protoss and it just seems a bit silly just how much pre-medivac aggression you can stop with barely any units.
Yup, I think it's stupidly strong in PvT, it kills most early bio timings meanwhile it also functions as a very effective attacking unit, especially on two player maps and in concert with a zealot or a stalker. I hate how asymmetric TvP became, T almost can't do anything early game whereas P can do almost anything and get away with it. But then the hellbat drops come in and it's kind of reversed. I don't like it when there are such strong biases in certain periods of the game, even if the matchup is balanced it feels a bit pigeonholed.
Wow proxy 1-1-1 pretty cool hahaha. The best part is, I feel like EGTL finally realized that to be successful in proleague you can't just be a solid player, you need to prepare for the matchup and the map and come up with these sniper builds. Pretty wacky stuff going on :D
HAHAHAH barracks natural block. I love Alive, really hope he wins after all these shenanigans but if any player can come back in this situation it's Baby, with his sick multitasking.
On June 18 2013 16:51 i.of.the.storm wrote: Wow proxy 1-1-1 pretty cool hahaha. The best part is, I feel like EGTL finally realized that to be successful in proleague you can't just be a solid player, you need to prepare for the matchup and the map and come up with these sniper builds. Pretty wacky stuff going on :D
I can't wait until they start doing more of this in individual leagues too, HerO and Taeja and the other EGTL boys will be an even scarier prospect in the next WCS NA season.
On June 18 2013 16:55 ZenithM wrote: A comeback from Ty is quite feasible actually.
Nah, aLive is playing rock solid
He's got Baby contained so hard with better army, economy and about to be 2 upgrades ahead
You never know, in my humble opinion Ty is quite far ahead of aLive in term of raw skill. Although that probably can't bring him back from such a deficit :'(
On June 18 2013 16:55 ZenithM wrote: A comeback from Ty is quite feasible actually.
Nah, aLive is playing rock solid
He's got Baby contained so hard with better army, economy and about to be 2 upgrades ahead
You never know, in my humble opinion Ty is quite far ahead of aLive in term of raw skill. Although that probably can't bring him back from such a deficit :'(
They play differently, Alive is a skillful player that is hugely underrated.
On June 18 2013 16:55 ZenithM wrote: A comeback from Ty is quite feasible actually.
Nah, aLive is playing rock solid
He's got Baby contained so hard with better army, economy and about to be 2 upgrades ahead
You never know, in my humble opinion Ty is quite far ahead of aLive in term of raw skill. Although that probably can't bring him back from such a deficit :'(
hmm maybe raw skill he is but aLive definitely played a lot better than Ty there. GG EG-TL!
On June 18 2013 16:59 KristofferAG wrote: Don't know why BaBy was moving out.
GG
Third just got sniped, 50 supply behind, nothing else to do but make one more desperate push. I guess he could have tried to turtle hard on 2 bases, but his resources were running low and Alive was sitting comfy on 3 bases with all the map control.
On June 18 2013 17:01 DarkLordOlli wrote: People always forget that aLive won the hardest non-GSL tournament of its time in IPL4
I really don't know how, that tournament is still really ingrained in my memory even to this day.
WP EGTL! Amazing how the LR threads go if they win vs when they lose and the idiots come in with the 'EZTL' crap. Proleague is pretty intense, and the margins between glory and ignominious defeat are slim. EGTL aren't really playing that much better than in other periods where they were struggling a bit.
On June 18 2013 17:01 DarkLordOlli wrote: People always forget that aLive won the hardest tournament of its time in IPL4
People always forget IPL4 because the GSTL finals incident made everyone forget about the actual tournament.
Or they could do what I do and have the tournament make them forget about the GSTL incident. Otherwise I'd still be mad and post baits everywhere
Parting had that shit in the bag. Still can't believe there were people who thought MKP had a chance there -_- too bad load from replay wasn't a thing yet. I raged so hard that day. Though karma is a bitch, looking at the state of Prime now.
On June 18 2013 17:01 DarkLordOlli wrote: People always forget that aLive won the hardest tournament of its time in IPL4
People always forget IPL4 because the GSTL finals incident made everyone forget about the actual tournament.
Or they could do what I do and have the tournament make them forget about the GSTL incident. Otherwise I'd still be mad and post baits everywhere
Parting had that shit in the bag. Still can't believe there were people who thought MKP had a chance there -_- too bad load from replay wasn't a thing yet. I raged so hard that day. Though karma is a bitch, looking at the state of Prime now.
That was just fucking dumb. I wish Parting had won a GSL in that era as well, that style was really beautiful to watch and there just aren't enough VoDs to sate my appetite
That said, I don't bear a grudge against MKP or Prime for that. My dislike of him is pretty much solely because he wears stupid glasses, which I'm sure you'll agree is a much better rationale.
On June 18 2013 17:01 DarkLordOlli wrote: People always forget that aLive won the hardest tournament of its time in IPL4
People always forget IPL4 because the GSTL finals incident made everyone forget about the actual tournament.
Or they could do what I do and have the tournament make them forget about the GSTL incident. Otherwise I'd still be mad and post baits everywhere
Parting had that shit in the bag. Still can't believe there were people who thought MKP had a chance there -_- too bad load from replay wasn't a thing yet. I raged so hard that day. Though karma is a bitch, looking at the state of Prime now.
That was just fucking dumb. I wish Parting had won a GSL in that era as well, that style was really beautiful to watch and there just aren't enough VoDs to sate my appetite
That said, I don't bear a grudge against MKP or Prime for that. My dislike of him is pretty much solely because he wears stupid glasses, which I'm sure you'll agree is a much better rationale.
I hope Parting never wins anything ever again, I hate that guy :D
On June 18 2013 17:15 ChoDing wrote: great hope for next season...
unless they disband =___=
why would they disband? withdraw, maybe, but i don't see TL or EG folding anytime soon unless you're talking about t8 or something?
I think he means the partnership yo. Might go solo if they can sign enough players
EG-[A] ;D i don't think TL has enough players though
Don't think it would be possible anyways, maybe they could do it but they would need the whole team 100% of the time in korea for proleague and wouldn't be able to send players to international events.
On June 18 2013 17:15 ChoDing wrote: great hope for next season...
unless they disband =___=
why would they disband? withdraw, maybe, but i don't see TL or EG folding anytime soon unless you're talking about t8 or something?
I think he means the partnership yo. Might go solo if they can sign enough players
EG-[A] ;D i don't think TL has enough players though
Don't think it would be possible anyways, maybe they could do it but they would need the whole team 100% of the time in korea for proleague and wouldn't be able to send players to international events.
Nonsense. The Dong would just never ever be allowed to sleep again. And maybe play some tournament games from the helicopter while he is approaching.
So i had a moment of curiosity so i decided to look at the perfect possible scenario for EGTL. They (EGTL) have 4 games left, sk telecom has 4 games left and samsung khan have 3 games left to play. If EGTL win every game with a mapscore of 4 and the other 2 lose every game 0-4 (sk telecom and samsung khan arn't playing eachother again this round so this is capable of happening).
In this highly unlikely scenario EGTL would tie SK Telecom in games 20-22 but would lose out on mapscore (sk telecom would be -1 egtl would be -14)
But if samsung khan lose all 3 of their next games, and egtl wins all 4 of their next games they could potentially steal 5th place from them. If samsung khan win 1 game and lose 2 and egtl win all 4 of their games then they would tie in games and it would come down to map score for that 5th spot.
So to clarify, for EGTL to get 5th place they would have to:
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games.
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing 3 games without egtl dropping more then 4 maps or samsung khan gaining 4 maps
Win 3 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games again with the 4 map stipulation.
However If the last 2 happen but with a 5 map gap then the 2 teams would tie on games and maps which i have no clue how it's worked out lol.
So while this is unimportant i was just curious and figured i'd post it (my math may be sketchy i haven't slept since dreamhack started yesterday lol.
if EG-TL didn't have that disastrous 1-6 Round 3 they would still be in the running haha, they've gone 3-4 every other round (not great, but salvageable)
On June 18 2013 17:37 Archybaldie wrote: So i had a moment of curiosity so i decided to look at the perfect possible scenario for EGTL. They (EGTL) have 4 games left, sk telecom has 4 games left and samsung khan have 3 games left to play. If EGTL win every game with a mapscore of 4 and the other 2 lose every game 0-4 (sk telecom and samsung khan arn't playing eachother again this round so this is capable of happening).
In this highly unlikely scenario EGTL would tie SK Telecom in games 20-22 but would lose out on mapscore (sk telecom would be -1 egtl would be -14)
But if samsung khan lose all 3 of their next games, and egtl wins all 4 of their next games they could potentially steal 5th place from them. If samsung khan win 1 game and lose 2 and egtl win all 4 of their games then they would tie in games and it would come down to map score for that 5th spot.
So to clarify, for EGTL to get 5th place they would have to:
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games.
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing 3 games without egtl dropping more then 4 maps or samsung khan gaining 4 maps
Win 3 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games again with the 4 map stipulation.
If the last 2 happen but with a 5 map gap then the 2 teams would tie and i have no clue how it's worked out lol.
So while this is unimportant i was just curious and figured i'd post it (my math may be sketchy i haven't slept since dreamhack started yesterday lol.
I post the ranking scenarios when I do the OP lol, it's already there, though a concise version.
On June 18 2013 17:37 Archybaldie wrote: So i had a moment of curiosity so i decided to look at the perfect possible scenario for EGTL. They (EGTL) have 4 games left, sk telecom has 4 games left and samsung khan have 3 games left to play. If EGTL win every game with a mapscore of 4 and the other 2 lose every game 0-4 (sk telecom and samsung khan arn't playing eachother again this round so this is capable of happening).
In this highly unlikely scenario EGTL would tie SK Telecom in games 20-22 but would lose out on mapscore (sk telecom would be -1 egtl would be -14)
But if samsung khan lose all 3 of their next games, and egtl wins all 4 of their next games they could potentially steal 5th place from them. If samsung khan win 1 game and lose 2 and egtl win all 4 of their games then they would tie in games and it would come down to map score for that 5th spot.
So to clarify, for EGTL to get 5th place they would have to:
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games.
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing 3 games without egtl dropping more then 4 maps or samsung khan gaining 4 maps
Win 3 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games again with the 4 map stipulation.
If the last 2 happen but with a 5 map gap then the 2 teams would tie and i have no clue how it's worked out lol.
So while this is unimportant i was just curious and figured i'd post it (my math may be sketchy i haven't slept since dreamhack started yesterday lol.
I post the ranking scenarios when I do the OP lol, it's already there, though a concise version.
Damnit i should pay attention more lol. I'll admit when i read LR posts its generally a quick scan for the streams/results/liquipedia links ... sigh im a nub
On June 18 2013 17:37 Archybaldie wrote: So i had a moment of curiosity so i decided to look at the perfect possible scenario for EGTL. They (EGTL) have 4 games left, sk telecom has 4 games left and samsung khan have 3 games left to play. If EGTL win every game with a mapscore of 4 and the other 2 lose every game 0-4 (sk telecom and samsung khan arn't playing eachother again this round so this is capable of happening).
In this highly unlikely scenario EGTL would tie SK Telecom in games 20-22 but would lose out on mapscore (sk telecom would be -1 egtl would be -14)
But if samsung khan lose all 3 of their next games, and egtl wins all 4 of their next games they could potentially steal 5th place from them. If samsung khan win 1 game and lose 2 and egtl win all 4 of their games then they would tie in games and it would come down to map score for that 5th spot.
So to clarify, for EGTL to get 5th place they would have to:
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games.
Win all 4 games with samsung khan losing 3 games without egtl dropping more then 4 maps or samsung khan gaining 4 maps
Win 3 games with samsung khan losing all 4 games again with the 4 map stipulation.
If the last 2 happen but with a 5 map gap then the 2 teams would tie and i have no clue how it's worked out lol.
So while this is unimportant i was just curious and figured i'd post it (my math may be sketchy i haven't slept since dreamhack started yesterday lol.
I post the ranking scenarios when I do the OP lol, it's already there, though a concise version.
Damnit i should pay attention more lol. I'll admit when i read LR posts its generally a quick scan for the streams/results/liquipedia links ... sigh im a nub
I should probably make it more visible instead of at the end though. I'm sure most people are interested in the playoff picture.
EGTL never could explain why they lose, or win, inexplicably. They started out overhyped, became massively underhyped, now they're actually doing well hahaha. They were never really terrible (except for that 16game losing streak I guess, that was pretty bad) but despite it all they've been playing hard despite being in the position they were in. Playing for pride apparently has its advantages! They have nothing to lose now!
I think it's a combination of Coach Park's influence finally taking hold (it wouldn't happen immediately) and there being no pressure. When they're expected to succeed it's harder to succeed. Now there's no pressure on them they can be relaxed and confident and perform well.
On June 18 2013 23:55 Larkin wrote: I think it's a combination of Coach Park's influence finally taking hold (it wouldn't happen immediately) and there being no pressure. When they're expected to succeed it's harder to succeed. Now there's no pressure on them they can be relaxed and confident and perform well.
I agree. EG-TL could definitely have done better this year had Coach Park been there the whole time. Looking forward to the Unholy Alliance 2.0
On June 19 2013 03:25 StarVe wrote: Six match streak liquibetting on the wrong team in Proleague matches, fuck me.
Seriously, EG-TL, what the hell is wrong with you? :D
I have two rights in a row. I'm on fire.
My other bets are dead on, though, catch me if you can! :p
what's your guys' ranks? i'm 342 right now, but i think a few picks i got wrong haven't been updated yet t.t
54, gotta watch out with Liquibet though, your amount of points in the ranking and on your personal stats page differ I've still got the same ranking on both pages but I don't know if that's true for everyone
EPT
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Zenio <Newkirk Redevelopment Precint> 
Cure
HerO <Whirlwind> ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/bv8Kw.png)
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). An unscouted proxy robo for immortals, along with 3 warpgates seems to be an insta-win in Platinum/Diamond League. I like to proxy in the natural, because we all know no one expands in PvP.
