CJ will have to win this if they hope to make the playoffs. 24 wins is the safety net to qualify right now (barring crazy results), and they are only at 15 with 8 games to go.
On May 31 2013 13:17 b0lt wrote: what on earth, how is flash ahead in supply?
herO made a bad move. He built infrastructure for a 2base all in, but he hesitated allowing Flash to take a free third, with herO taking a late third in response.
On May 31 2013 13:33 NicksonReyes wrote: I wonder what happened to the Flash with drops and multipronged attacks... He's relying too much on macro these days in TvP...
i agree. what happened to that flash who stomped rain 2-0 with multi-pronged drop harrass.
On May 31 2013 13:33 NicksonReyes wrote: I wonder what happened to the Flash with drops and multipronged attacks... He's relying too much on macro these days in TvP...
i agree. what happened to that flash who stomped rain 2-0 with multi-pronged drop harrass.
Calm down, there is Flash flavors for eveyone, Flash the multitastking monster, Flash the turtle Simcity disgusting monster, Flash the cheesy tricky monster (just ask Bisu Fans lol).
On May 31 2013 13:33 NicksonReyes wrote: I wonder what happened to the Flash with drops and multipronged attacks... He's relying too much on macro these days in TvP...
You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
On May 31 2013 13:33 NicksonReyes wrote: I wonder what happened to the Flash with drops and multipronged attacks... He's relying too much on macro these days in TvP...
You said what? :D
I remember when he defeated Rain in Code A to make it into Code S last season (the final WoL Code A) he used drop play extensively, and when asked about it, he said something like "I've trained in multiple styles". I thought it was so awesome that he could explain it so nonchalantly.
On May 31 2013 13:33 NicksonReyes wrote: I wonder what happened to the Flash with drops and multipronged attacks... He's relying too much on macro these days in TvP...
You said what? :D
I remember when he defeated Rain in Code A to make it into Code S last season (the final WoL Code A) he used drop play extensively, and when asked about it, he said something like "I've trained in multiple styles". I thought it was so awesome that he could explain it so nonchalantly.
I guess once you've got mechanics like that you can do whatever you want right?
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
If a particular unit/strat is imbalanced even in a mirror matchup, you know things are definitely fucked up. :p
On May 31 2013 13:47 IshinShishi wrote: huh I thought flash never bmed.
koreans don't really considered stuff like that bm. they consider it a ceremony for winning as opposed to people in NA who think they are a diss for being bad.
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
eh, bong didn't react nearly fast enough to the drops. he just played badly.
edit: also, there was this one protoss who used cannons to defend drops like snm said. i don't remember who but it was very effective.
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
yea and this is why i think a gas count should be put on them since then terran wont just lose them carelessly or do something with medivac boost.
On May 31 2013 13:51 raf3776 wrote: I went away for a lil bit and the game was overr T.T what happened?
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open. Even the widow mine drops + reapers were more efficient than the hellbat drops.
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open.
IMO, losing 4 probes against someone like Flash is putting yourself in a deep hole.
One thing I notice about flashes games is the seem so clean cut. He can drop me can mass expand and many other things but you do not usually seem him using all possible tactics. He has games where he uses mass expanding and drops, heavy macro frontal pushes with very delayed ghosts, etc.
On May 31 2013 13:46 negativedge wrote: flash is pretty good at this game
Well he's no Innovation
Flash's overall record vs innovation is like 6-4 with flash in the lead....
doesn't mean he's the better player
i never said he was the better player... the first guy wrote flash is good, second guy wrote he's no innovation, obviously implying innovation is on another level than flash. i simply stated flash has a winning head to head record vs the guy who is supposedly the better player.
if you ask me, i'd say they are honestly about the same with innovation with slighly better vZ and vP and flash with better vT.
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open. Even the widow mine drops + reapers were more efficient than the hellbat drops.
He was down 17 probes for 4 hellbats, 2 medivacs, and 2 mines that didnt kill anything. Did you see the unit count when the robo snipe happened? Flash had huge lead before the robo snipe and he would have won even if he just sat back and macro'd instead of going for the cute bio drop.
On May 31 2013 13:46 negativedge wrote: flash is pretty good at this game
Well he's no Innovation
Flash's overall record vs innovation is like 6-4 with flash in the lead....
doesn't mean he's the better player
i never said he was the better player... the first guy wrote flash is good, second guy wrote he's no innovation, obviously implying innovation is on another level than flash. i simply stated flash has a winning head to head record vs the guy who is supposedly the better player.
if you ask me, i'd say they are honestly about the same with innovation with slighly better vZ and vP and flash with better vT.
Adorable interview segment. <3 Love seeing the personality.
An honest question: nothing against the casters personally (they clearly love the game) but is this the best SPL has? Will there be a change up next season? I just feel like there is a fairly large (read: Grand Canyon) gap between these two and the few (2-3) quality casters SC2 has in its roster. It's a shame because this league has the best talent in the world. Am I alone here?
On May 31 2013 13:59 Pwnzer wrote: The banter between these two makes me cringe sometimes. Haha it almost sounds like they are trying to one up one another...is it just me?
Yeah there's sometimes this awkward tension between them, like one of them gets slightly defensive due to not getting a joke/one correcting the other/etc
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open. Even the widow mine drops + reapers were more efficient than the hellbat drops.
He was down 17 probes for 4 hellbats, 2 medivacs, and 2 mines that didnt kill anything. Did you see the unit count when the robo snipe happened? Flash had huge lead before the robo snipe and he would have won even if he just sat back and macro'd instead of going for the cute bio drop.
Well my mistake. I shouldn't have said that the hellbat drops didn't do anything. Anyway, I was mainly responding to
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
which happened but wasn't worth the cost. The 1st hellbat drop did the most damage because of the mine and the reapers still being in bong's natural, which made bong send all of his units away from his main. That one was not scouted nor prepared for.
On May 31 2013 14:09 SoFrOsTy wrote: Anyone else actually feel bad for the people that have to play against Flash and Innovation these days?
Also, is it just me or every time Flash loses, he comes back like 2x better the very next week.
not you lol. During Code S, when Flash went out of the group to both Innovation 2-1 and Parting 2-0, he wasn't happy. I recall reading he went straight home and practiced then next time against Innovation, he handed him a loss XD
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open. Even the widow mine drops + reapers were more efficient than the hellbat drops.
He was down 17 probes for 4 hellbats, 2 medivacs, and 2 mines that didnt kill anything. Did you see the unit count when the robo snipe happened? Flash had huge lead before the robo snipe and he would have won even if he just sat back and macro'd instead of going for the cute bio drop.
Well my mistake. I shouldn't have said that the hellbat drops didn't do anything. Anyway, I was mainly responding to
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
which happened but wasn't worth the cost. The 1st hellbat drop did the most damage because of the mine and the reapers still being in bong's natural, which made bong send all of his units away from his main. That one was not scouted nor prepared for.
what u seem to forget is protoss lose mining time to every single time those helblats arrives
...am I the only one 100% confused by the CJ coaches this match? herO as the start I can understand, but Bong and Hydra before EffOrt? I get saving your ace, but against Flash of all people?
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
4 probes isn't worth 2 hellbats and a medivac. You scout and react to them and they lose efficiency. What won Flash the game was the robo snipe which delayed the 2nd and 3rd colo(which Bong didn't even get to remake before the game ended) and catching the protoss army out in the open. Even the widow mine drops + reapers were more efficient than the hellbat drops.
He was down 17 probes for 4 hellbats, 2 medivacs, and 2 mines that didnt kill anything. Did you see the unit count when the robo snipe happened? Flash had huge lead before the robo snipe and he would have won even if he just sat back and macro'd instead of going for the cute bio drop.
Well my mistake. I shouldn't have said that the hellbat drops didn't do anything. Anyway, I was mainly responding to
On May 31 2013 13:49 pylonsalad wrote: You can scout the hellbat drop. You can prepare defence for it. You can have units in place. And the hellbats and medivac will still just boost in, eat up all the shots, and still do enough damage to make it worth the cost. THAT is the thing that is so unbalanced about it. And in every matchup.
which happened but wasn't worth the cost. The 1st hellbat drop did the most damage because of the mine and the reapers still being in bong's natural, which made bong send all of his units away from his main. That one was not scouted nor prepared for.
what u seem to forget is protoss lose mining time to every single time those helblats arrives
This exactly. Hellbats can't be killed rapidly enough and kill probes very fast. At the very least u will lose a lot of mining time and in many cases tons of probes. The terrans take almost no risk at doing it because the hellbats usually won't die until they are able to escape with the mediboosts.
On May 31 2013 14:17 evergreensc wrote: ...am I the only one 100% confused by the CJ coaches this match? herO as the start I can understand, but Bong and Hydra before EffOrt? I get saving your ace, but against Flash of all people?
Bong: tvp is flashs most inconsistent mu Hydra: hes actually quite good and he probably had that build prepared knowing flash has lost to baneling busts in the past
The problem with CJ is, that they have quite a few 'lieutenant' level players (Hydra, herO, Effort) but they have no 'general' like Flash, Innovation, Soulkey, Rain etc.. afaik they still don't have any players in GSL (besides Bunny who is a b-teamer). herO was the only one with any kind of success in individual league in SC2 (that being WCS KR and WCS Asia) and that was a long time ago. Since then their players flopped in everything.
EDIT: Oh right sorry, completely forgot about Bbyong... So the latter part doesn't really stand, but the first point about them not having a general still stands.
On May 31 2013 14:25 Ammanas wrote: The problem with CJ is, that they have a lot of quite a few 'lieutenant' level players (Hydra, herO, Effort) but they have no 'general' like Flash, Innovation, Soulkey, Rain etc.. afaik they still don't have any players in GSL (besides Bunny who is a b-teamer). herO was the only one with any kind of success in individual league in SC2 (that being WCS KR and WCS Asia) and that was a long time ago. Since then their players flopped in everything.
On May 31 2013 14:25 Ammanas wrote: The problem with CJ is, that they have a lot of quite a few 'lieutenant' level players (Hydra, herO, Effort) but they have no 'general' like Flash, Innovation, Soulkey, Rain etc.. afaik they still don't have any players in GSL (besides Bunny who is a b-teamer). herO was the only one with any kind of success in individual league in SC2 (that being WCS KR and WCS Asia) and that was a long time ago. Since then their players flopped in everything.
LOL, I dont play zerg but it must be infuriating to have medvacs just flying around your base and not have much to do about it. At least I have the ability to make stalkers. Poor effort. : (
On May 31 2013 14:34 lichter wrote: I don't understand roach hydra vT
the idea behind it is to rely on units that your opponent can counter with only marines but that also suck vs marauders.
Actually roach hydra is very good against 4m, but only if you get a sizeable force with a large economy backing it up fast enough. Otherwise it ends up looking like what Flash did to it.
On May 31 2013 14:38 pylonsalad wrote: Sending zergs against Flash and Innovation is a bad coaching decision. CJ coach should just send out all his terrans and tell them to go hellbats.
On May 31 2013 14:37 Wegandi wrote: Flash's last 19 games he is 17-2 lol....even Innovation doesn't compare.
Yea. Flash performing by far the best in the world's most prestigious league and has better head to head record vs Innovation. All this Innovation best in the world hype has caused people to overlook Flash. He is so god damn good.
On May 31 2013 14:34 lichter wrote: I don't understand roach hydra vT
the idea behind it is to rely on units that your opponent can counter with only marines but that also suck vs marauders.
Actually roach hydra is very good against 4m, but only if you get a sizeable force with a large economy backing it up fast enough. Otherwise it ends up looking like what Flash did to it.
the thing is, it is easily scouted that you go roach/hydra. And then all a Terran has to do to have a huge composition advantage is to stop mine production and stay defensive until the high supply. The only way to lose against roach/hydra is to go on the offense against it too early. In the longrun (once you have 3mining bases and your 8barracks production) marines and marauders are just far too costefficient against it. Not to mention that you have to keep a lot of supply pinned in your bases against drops (unlike mutas that can join your army fast).
I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Lol well I like Boxer but i can't pick between KT and SKT so I havent changed it
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Hah you should form a support group with Oz and MBC fans
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Hah you should form a support group with Oz and MBC fans
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Hah you should form a support group with Oz and MBC fans
Exactly what I was thinking.
Don't forget eStro and Airforce Ace. xD
As far as I know, ACE isn't technically disbanded yet. If I remember right they announced that they would only disband after all their SC players have left service. I guess that is sorta disbanded but not officially?
On May 31 2013 14:48 Frazzlehoon wrote: Flash for next GSL champion?
He didn't look any stronger in this series than he did in his series in the GSL. He all-killed, sure, but I really wasn't too impressed with how everyone else was playing. This isn't GSL champ caliber.
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Hah you should form a support group with Oz and MBC fans
On May 31 2013 14:57 Maghetti wrote: I am absolutely loving the rivalry bewteen Flash and Innovation. The only thing missing is a strong performance in the gsl by Flash and the Innovation vs Flash finals :D:D:D
Sick.
Btw, props to you for staying loyal to a team even after it disbanded.
We also got serious abandonment issues to work through. lolol
Hah you should form a support group with Oz and MBC fans
Exactly what I was thinking.
Don't forget eStro and Airforce Ace. xD
Yeah man... lost a lot of good players too. Can't wait till OzSucksBallsWithoutMe comes out of retirement.
Am I just blind or there really wasn't an LP for the fantastic WJ - Khan match, played yesterday? I want to write down somewhere how crazy good Jangbang is!
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
There are people dying out there and you prayed for Terran?
WOW I'm so happy Flash is still a beast! havent been following HOTS much. Is Flash bringing good stuff into the game or is he just playin his good old solid 14CC macro war? =)
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
There are people dying out there and you prayed for Terran?
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
There are people dying out there and you prayed for Terran?
Luckily praying doesn't work (yes there's been a lot of actual research done on this) and is a waste of time. Maybe he donated to charities which actually is a real contribution?
Anyway, the KeSPA switch is the best thing that could happen to SC2. Some players are getting to such a high skill level now that watching them really gives you goosebumps and makes the game so god damn entertaining. We're getting closer to the point (if we're not allready there) where the play of the real S-class tier feels inhuman.
On May 31 2013 19:38 ThePhan2m wrote: WOW I'm so happy Flash is still a beast! havent been following HOTS much. Is Flash bringing good stuff into the game or is he just playin his good old solid 14CC macro war? =)
In the beginning he was still very much 14-CC'ing almost every game except the ones he proxy rax'd but now he's probably the most solid terran player along with Innovation and plays a lot of different openings.
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
There are people dying out there and you prayed for Terran?
Yes.
Praying for Terran was the obvious choice a year ago.
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
fixed: Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, Flash...
On May 31 2013 19:20 ZenithM wrote: WTF? Flash and Innovation are a bit too much. When I prayed 1 year ago for Terran to do better I wasn't expecting this, God...
There are people dying out there and you prayed for Terran?
do you really want terran to die? people die anyway so..
flash just too imba. i really would like to see a gsl finals between him and innovation at some point in the future when tvt is fixed and no longer a hellbat war.
EPT
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