After eight crazy groups, 16 fierce competitors remain. Among them, only four will be invited to Paris to fight for the Iron Squid title. The bracket will be broadcasted during three days, from the 11th to the 13th January.
The one and only TvP of this round of 16 should be a very nice series to watch. Two of the best players of the year 2012 who have exposed their talent all around the world face up. MKP had an astonishing start of the year especially in MLG events while HerO did very well at the end of the year. If both can brag about their TvP, HerO has been the most impressive lately as he smashed his teammate TaeJa twice in a row. But MarineKing knows this match-up as well and his style can be tough to face since he is very unpredictable.
MarineKing vP: 71,14%
HerO vT: 55,26%
History: MKP 2-1 HerO
AZUBU.viOLet VS. SK.MC
One month ago, violet would have been considered as a big favorite for this match. Even if he remains favored by the odds today, MC is in much better shape and will have a real shot at taking down the AZUBU player. The Boss Toss moved in the LG-IM house and has been training very hard since. His results followed quickly and he managed to get back in Code S despite being in the group of the death. One performance by MC is not enough to overshadow the very good months violet had lately, but the President always had a great PvZ and violet should be careful.
viOLet vP: 41,94%
MC vZ: 54,12%
History: viOLet 3-9 MC
Mill.Goswser VS. LG-IM.Mvp
The real surprise of the second chapter of Iron Squid, Goswser was really impressive in the group stage, defeating the reigning champion MMA and Genius. The American said it himself, he likes to prepare tailor made builds to put his opponents in a tough situation. Goswser will need all his preparation skills and a great execution to advance from the round of 16 since he faces a legend. Recently elected Terran of the year and this in spite of painful wrist bothering him all year long, Mvp is still a force to be reckoned with. The Terran showed some limits in TvZ in the group stage when he was defeated by Stephano, Goswser will have to match the French’s feat.
Goswser vT: 54,29%
Mvp vZ: 67,62%
No history
FXO.Leenock VS. StarTal.Life
The Zergs have got unlucky in the bracket draw since this match could easily be a grand final for any event. But fate made them face each other as early as the round of 16. It is all Leenock’s fault as he lost to DRG in the group stage. Losing a ZvZ is not a good omen before facing someone as good as Life. It has really been back and forth between the two Zergs, Life winning in MLG and Blizzard cup while Leenock won in GSL Code A. Life has the advantage, he won the Bo7 and the Bo5.
Life vZ: 69,44%
Leenock vZ: 57,32%
History: Leenock 7-10 Life
Note: The figures are courtesy from TLPD, TLPD Korea when the two players are Koreans, TLPD International when they are not both Koreans.
Just to let you know as I'll go from work to the studio (instead of home) I will be late to update the OP (should catch up around 7.30 pm) sorry for the inconvenience!
On January 11 2013 05:26 Bagration wrote: Remember last Iron Squid, when slumping Idra upset MVP? Could Gowser do the same?
My most fond memory of Idra is when he said MKP was "pretty fucking bad" and then proceeded to roll him in IPL TAC. Unless goswser has said something similar about Mvp, it wouldn't be half as funny. Still, it would be very cool to see.
On January 11 2013 05:26 Bagration wrote: Remember last Iron Squid, when slumping Idra upset MVP? Could Gowser do the same?
My most fond memory of Idra is when he said MKP was "pretty fucking bad" and then proceeded to roll him in IPL TAC. Unless goswser has said something similar about Mvp, it wouldn't be half as funny. Still, it would be very cool to see.
On January 11 2013 05:26 Bagration wrote: Remember last Iron Squid, when slumping Idra upset MVP? Could Gowser do the same?
My most fond memory of Idra is when he said MKP was "pretty fucking bad" and then proceeded to roll him in IPL TAC. Unless goswser has said something similar about Mvp, it wouldn't be half as funny. Still, it would be very cool to see.
Wasn't it cross server after the queen buff?
I remember Idra said that after beating MKP (both as starter), during his match against Creator (and proceed to lose instantly).
On January 11 2013 05:26 Bagration wrote: Remember last Iron Squid, when slumping Idra upset MVP? Could Gowser do the same?
My most fond memory of Idra is when he said MKP was "pretty fucking bad" and then proceeded to roll him in IPL TAC. Unless goswser has said something similar about Mvp, it wouldn't be half as funny. Still, it would be very cool to see.
Wasn't it cross server after the queen buff?
I remember Idra said that after beating MKP (both as starter), during his match against Creator (and proceed to lose instantly).
I also remember about a year ago, when Idra was still relevant. :p
HerO will lose to MarineKing viOLet will lose to MC Goswser will beat Mvp Life will lose to Leenock
But in reality, I think
HerO will beat MarineKing viOLet will beat MC Goswser will lose to Mvp Life will beat Leenock
My only real "ah, I don't know who to root for" is Goswser - MVP - I love MVP, he's a legend. But Goswser is the cindarella story underdog (though to be fair he's been consistently putting up decent results these past few months).
I have no idea who will win between Life and Leenock. These guys could play a best of 99 and it would be 99-98.
L Stephano L Stephano W Mini W Mini L Leenock L Leenock L DongRaeGu L DongRaeGu W DongRaeGu L DongRaeGu L DongRaeGu L NesTea L NesTea W NesTea L Life L Life W Life W Life W Life L Life
Here is a player we cannot underestimate: goswser! Sure, he doesn't carry a name as big as Stephano, but his ZvT is no joke with wins over GanZi, ThorZaIN, Heart, SuperNova, qxc, and lots of games taken off other top Korean pros. More recently, goswser went 2-1 over MMA and 2-0 over Genius to top his Iron Squid Chapter II Round of 32 group. What a dangerous foe indeed.
However, goswser has never run into the king himself. Sure, a win over MMA is quite impressive, but MMA has been slumping pretty badly. So has Mvp, but even Mvp in a slump can turn himself around and produce impressive results (such as a GSL victory). Mvp has been resting and practicing since 2012 has ended and now is the perfect chance to show off the fruits of his labor.
Recently, Mvp has been on a terrible losing streak against Zerg. Bear in mind that Mvp has been losing to the Stephanos, the Leenocks, the DongRaeGus, the Lifes of this world. While goswser is good, he's obviously not at that level yet. Also, this is no mere Best of 3... this is a full Best of 5, Mvp's specialty. Will Mvp be able to pick himself back up and dominate against Zerg once again?
Prediction: Mvp 3-1 goswser Mvp advances to the Round of 8!
I am confident that MKP and ViOlet will win. I think Goswser will win because A. this isnt GSL B. Mvp's recent play has been poor. and C. Goswser is damn good.
Picking Leenock or Life is 50/50 who the hell knows.
On January 11 2013 05:26 Bagration wrote: Remember last Iron Squid, when slumping Idra upset MVP? Could Gowser do the same?
My most fond memory of Idra is when he said MKP was "pretty fucking bad" and then proceeded to roll him in IPL TAC. Unless goswser has said something similar about Mvp, it wouldn't be half as funny. Still, it would be very cool to see.
Wasn't it cross server after the queen buff?
I remember Idra said that after beating MKP (both as starter), during his match against Creator (and proceed to lose instantly).
idra said it before the match i think, he did beat MKP but it was crossserver
I'm going to be pretty sad if Mvp loses and it's not like he's guaranteed to win- goswuser is actually kinda ok now... and with possible cross server play... MKP Hero and MC/Violet will be fun, but I'm so tired of good ZvZ, even another Leenock Life doesn't excite me
Comment its really time for MKP to win something again and after the Up/Downs HerO looks a bit more shaky as of late
viOlet 2-3 MC
Comment The Bosstoss is back in Code S. After a long dryspell hes hungry to boost his wallet again
Goswser 3-1 Mvp
Comment Shocker of the tournament? Not really, we all know in what condition Mvp is right now and I doubt he will take this too serious, probably prefers to recover for GSL.
Life 1-3 Leenock
Comment Life is the best player in the world right now, but Leenock is out for revenge and its his turn again to get on top of the Zerg throne. Sounds biased? Hell who doesnt love Leenock...
I will once again go with the prediction of MKP demolishing HerO, and to add backup to my claim, I call MC, the Bosstoss
Q: Of course the championship is your goal. Is there anyone you want to avoid to make that as easy as possible?
MC: That would be MarineKing. Also LG-IM players. MarineKing is a god in TvP recently. If I have to face him, I hope it's far into the tournament so neither of us has any regrets. On the other hand, I want to face all the Zergs in the world. Bring on Life and Leenock and I'll show them a good time (laugh)
Go MC! I really want him to win another event hasn't been doing THAT well lately and hasn't taken home any championships for a while, as far as I know ;;
HerO 2 < 3 MarineKing viOLet 3 > 1 MC Goswser 1 < 3 Mvp Life 2 < 3 Leenock
Last one should be quite close though. I feel Leenock is a bit more stable, and has some nice features in his play (nyduses and such) that Life, despite being highly dynamic, rarely incorporates.
HerO 2 < 3 MarineKing viOLet 3 > 1 MC Goswser 1 < 3 Mvp Life 2 < 3 Leenock
Last one should be quite close though. I feel Leenock is a bit more stable, and has some nice features in his play (nyduses and such) that Life, despite being highly dynamic, rarely incorporates.
On January 11 2013 23:23 eMGmoG wrote: lifes 70% vs zerg is unbelievably strong. and it wasnt against inferior opponents, it was mostly against the caliber of leenock, drg and so fort.
Hmm yeah, Life's ZvZ is strong but predictions shouldn't only be base on stats. Ah? Ah???
I'll add a text-box with a prepared forum postable text for people like you.
Got a warning the other day for posting the "They took his job" Video from South Park the other day (mainly because it was only the video, no text :-P ), but it would also be relevant here. :D
On January 12 2013 01:03 IronSquid wrote: ForGG vs SuperNova, we do not invite Iron Squid participants to play in KOTH HOTS.
It is going to start now !
Makes sense. Thanks for putting on such an awesome tournament!
P.S. You should see if TaeJa's interested in HotS KotH since he's bumped out of the tournament. I've seen him stream HotS and he messes around a lot so it would definitely be entertaining.
On January 12 2013 01:14 Mattidute wrote: ForGG doesn't seem to care much about the new HOTS stuff and rather just plays it like it's WoL.
Game one in general looked like a regular WoL TvT. Kinda wished it was two different races playing against each other to show off more HotS strategies.
There were 3 mines total for SuperNoVa, 2 got destroyed at SuperNoVa's base in 2 different attacks of ForGG and 1 was used in a failed attempt on an attack (SuperNoVa retreated after the mine died).
On January 12 2013 01:50 Schelim wrote: holy ForGG batman. this dude has been so impressive in HotS. i wonder how well he'll perform compared to the other players when it's released.
tbh he just is a very good player, hots doesn't really matter here, just look at his DH valencia run
On January 12 2013 02:07 Hiea wrote: Did they just spend 5+ minutes repeating the same things they said about the players the first minute, and then go into commercials?
Iron Squid is great, but my god, the broadcasts can be slooooow.
On January 12 2013 02:21 Testuser wrote: That looked incredibly sloppy from both, but I might be wrong - only caught the last bit.
Neither really made any major mistakes, there was a DT that MKP let get away at 1 hp, but it died anyway, other than that HerO was dead, regardless if a forcefield failed, because once MKP has 4 medivacs, he can just drop the main and because HerO spent all his money on getting sentries for blocking the ramp, all he can do is tickle MKP's army.
On January 12 2013 02:24 AlternativeEgo wrote: I like to listen to Pomf and Thud. I don't understand them, but I like it. Throw in a Vasa and we're good to take on the Koreans.
Yeah the French casters are very animated, and since English and French share certain linguistic characteristics, it's possible to pick up some of what they are saying. They're pretty good
i don't know man. i love these casters but i think they're pretty far off saying Hero is sooo much better than MKP. MKP is just inconsistent so it's hard to say which one shows up, but MKP on his a-game is gonna fuck Hero up tbh.
On January 12 2013 02:27 Schelim wrote: i don't know man. i love these casters but i think they're pretty far off saying Hero is sooo much better than MKP. MKP is just inconsistent so it's hard to say which one shows up, but MKP on his a-game is gonna fuck Hero up tbh.
no one can (i think) say who is the most favored, that's why this bo5 will be awesome to watch
On January 12 2013 02:27 Schelim wrote: i don't know man. i love these casters but i think they're pretty far off saying Hero is sooo much better than MKP. MKP is just inconsistent so it's hard to say which one shows up, but MKP on his a-game is gonna fuck Hero up tbh.
Nah, not if HerO is at his best. If both are playing their a-game, this series would be really even.
On January 12 2013 02:24 AlternativeEgo wrote: I like to listen to Pomf and Thud. I don't understand them, but I like it. Throw in a Vasa and we're good to take on the Koreans.
Yes they are very good as casters! I am a bilingual french canadian but it's good to listen to french casters once in a while
On January 12 2013 02:30 ES.Genie wrote: Man, I used to love Day9, but now hearing him the first time in weeks, I want to have Khaldor and espacially Wolf back.
What the fuck MKP LOL. Horrible ramps to engage, but this micro was so fucking good. The "I perfect stutter-step while picking up my units" was unbelievable too.
On January 12 2013 02:30 ES.Genie wrote: Man, I used to love Day9, but now hearing him the first time in weeks, I want to have Khaldor and espacially Wolf back.
Well... Day9 is sick today so go easy on him ><
Has he been sick all of 2012 oO? He has been casting like this the past year pretty much.
On January 12 2013 02:30 ES.Genie wrote: Man, I used to love Day9, but now hearing him the first time in weeks, I want to have Khaldor and espacially Wolf back.
Well... Day9 is sick today so go easy on him ><
Has he been sick all of 2012 oO? He has been casting like this the past year pretty much.
Yeah I don't notice much of a difference and I always enjoyed his style, but now just not so much anymore. He's not doing anythign wrong...I guees I'm just too used to Khaldor and Wolf, because almost all the games I watch are casted by them.
On January 12 2013 02:58 Gojira621 wrote: day9 does realize that marineking won MLG winter arena AND MLG winter championship in the past year right? He just said he gets silver in everything..
On January 12 2013 02:58 Gojira621 wrote: day9 does realize that marineking won MLG winter arena AND MLG winter championship in the past year right? He just said he gets silver in everything..
It's probably a mix between MKP being known for getting silver for so long, and the fact that Day[9] clearly wants to share a room with HerO
Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird MKP played it perfectly.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird MKP played it perfectly.
I guess that's what happens if you play online.
i am still kind of sad that we will not get to see a potential mkp vs mvp wol finals. hopefully in GSL we will get view this
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird
No it was allin, no forge nothing, this allin is supposed to hit with 2 colossus and range soon after, because the factory is so late you can't really defend well, you got stuck on 2 bases trying to survive and then the P takes his third while containing you.
HerO did the right thing but MKP's micro + decision to stay on medivacs was just too much.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird
No it was allin, no forge nothing, this allin is supposed to hit with 2 colossus and range soon after, because the factory is so late you can't really defend well, you got stuck on 2 bases trying to survive and then the P takes his third while containing you.
HerO did the right thing but MKP's micro + decision to stay on medivacs was just too much.
That's the thing though, he had a forge. It was a forge + robo bay build which is as standard as it gets. Which is great to pressure like he did but he turned it into an all in by not expanding and keeping up the attack.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
Too bad MKP ain't no taeja when it come to TvZ either T.T
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
To be fair to TaeJa his TvP was kind of godlike too in the summer, but I guess it's harder to stay on top than to reach it so his weakness are more apparent now.
So happy that MKP won, in fashion also. HerO played it really well, making the right decisions but with slightly less good execution than MKP's each time (did not see the beginning of the second game though so maybe not true for that game!).
Gogo viOlet, Mvp and Life! Gogo goswer also, him beating Mvp would not upset me much.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
To be fair to TaeJa his TvP was kind of godlike too in the summer, but I guess it's harder to stay on top than to reach it so his weakness are more apparent now.
So happy that MKP won, in fashion also. HerO played it really well, making the right decisions but with slightly less good execution than MKP's each time (did not see the beginning of the second game though so maybe not true for that game!).
Gogo viOlet, Mvp and Life! Gogo goswer also, him beating Mvp would not upset me much.
The second game started off with HerO going 1 gate double expand and adding 7 gates to hold MKPs aggression + counter. He got pretty far ahead through that.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird
No it was allin, no forge nothing, this allin is supposed to hit with 2 colossus and range soon after, because the factory is so late you can't really defend well, you got stuck on 2 bases trying to survive and then the P takes his third while containing you.
HerO did the right thing but MKP's micro + decision to stay on medivacs was just too much.
That's the thing though, he had a forge. It was a forge + robo bay build which is as standard as it gets. Which is great to pressure like he did but he turned it into an all in by not expanding and keeping up the attack.
Pretty sure he made the forge before seeing the third CC, he made it at the same time he made the colo bay if I remember correctly. It would make no sense to expo at the time of his attack he would have been even more crushed.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird
No it was allin, no forge nothing, this allin is supposed to hit with 2 colossus and range soon after, because the factory is so late you can't really defend well, you got stuck on 2 bases trying to survive and then the P takes his third while containing you.
HerO did the right thing but MKP's micro + decision to stay on medivacs was just too much.
That's the thing though, he had a forge. It was a forge + robo bay build which is as standard as it gets. Which is great to pressure like he did but he turned it into an all in by not expanding and keeping up the attack.
Pretty sure he made the forge before seeing the third CC, he made it at the same time he made the colo bay if I remember correctly. It would make no sense to expo at the time of his attack he would have been even more crushed.
Yeah he did, it was forge + robo bay. That's pretty standard, he added a twilight council later too but didn't use it for a long time. I mean he could've easily expanded after killing that army in the middle and all the SCVs and been in a pretty good position even though his third was later but HerO kept attacking and lost his army...
I want to see how this works out. I've always found it interesting that MC, the master of all-ins, hasn't been doing a lot of Immortal/Sentry, and has failed the few times I've seen him try it.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber. You are not supposed to defend vs colossus allin with MKP's build especially if you moved your CC. Except if you are MKP. :D
HerO's gameplan was just weird... it wasn't a colossus all in, it was a standard colossus build, then he got the information on the 3 CCs and attacked... Weird games, really weird
No it was allin, no forge nothing, this allin is supposed to hit with 2 colossus and range soon after, because the factory is so late you can't really defend well, you got stuck on 2 bases trying to survive and then the P takes his third while containing you.
HerO did the right thing but MKP's micro + decision to stay on medivacs was just too much.
That's the thing though, he had a forge. It was a forge + robo bay build which is as standard as it gets. Which is great to pressure like he did but he turned it into an all in by not expanding and keeping up the attack.
Pretty sure he made the forge before seeing the third CC, he made it at the same time he made the colo bay if I remember correctly. It would make no sense to expo at the time of his attack he would have been even more crushed.
Yeah he did, it was forge + robo bay. That's pretty standard, he added a twilight council later too but didn't use it for a long time. I mean he could've easily expanded after killing that army in the middle and all the SCVs and been in a pretty good position even though his third was later but HerO kept attacking and lost his army...
It doesn't change anything that it's standart lol, he had to allin colossus after seeing the third CC, that was the best choice. I don't see exactly what moment you are talking about but MKP would have been able to comfortably sature his third base and with his upgrade advantage could deny HerO's third even more.
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
Too bad MKP ain't no taeja when it come to TvZ either T.T
He goes through phases it seems though, he's had two different real peaks of TvZ brilliance which have lasted for months at a time... He's a funny dude that way. Since the start of SC2 his best matchups have been: TvZ (2010 and early 2011) then TvT (mid 2011. Unfortunately he was kind of overshadowed during this period by a few other terrans who had even better TvT than himself (Polt, MMA, MVP), then TvP (Early 2012), then TvZ ( early-mid 2012, like march/april when he was beating DRG and the like in MLG, and even when the queen patch hit he did pretty well in TvZ for a bit due to the hellion banshee opening). But now as zergs have gotten better and better it seems Protosses are the only guys he really demolishes anymore.
That's just my perspective though, not sure if everyone would agree with me.
On January 12 2013 03:20 Emptyness wrote: Good job MKP . And go go MC .
Why is the op not updating ?
On January 11 2013 04:21 LeLfe wrote: Just to let you know as I'll go from work to the studio (instead of home) I will be late to update the OP (should catch up around 7.30 pm) sorry for the inconvenience!
On January 12 2013 03:10 Poopi wrote: Lol. MC was right. MarineKing TvP god, sorry Bomber.
Yeah I was wondering if that was kind of a spoiler by MC since he probably knew the results of this game, so I took that as a good sign when MC said that. MKP ain't no taeja when it comes to TvP!
Too bad MKP ain't no taeja when it come to TvZ either T.T
He goes through phases it seems though, he's had two different real peaks of TvZ brilliance which have lasted for months at a time... He's a funny dude that way. Since the start of SC2 his best matchups have been: TvZ (2010 and early 2011) then TvT (mid 2011. Unfortunately he was kind of overshadowed during this period by a few other terrans who had even better TvT than himself (Polt, MMA, MVP), then TvP (Early 2012), then TvZ ( early-mid 2012, like march/april when he was beating DRG and the like in MLG, and even when the queen patch hit he did pretty well in TvZ for a bit due to the hellion banshee opening). But now as zergs have gotten better and better it seems Protosses are the only guys he really demolishes anymore.
That's just my perspective though, not sure if everyone would agree with me.
Pretty sure his TvT has always been wonderful during 2012 tho. Except against Mvp in GSL but it's because of Mvp's style countering his + the fact that Mvp has psychological advantage over him.
Like his TvT was 75-80% in 2012, that's ridiculous considering the level of opposition he faced.
On January 11 2013 04:21 LeLfe wrote: Just to let you know as I'll go from work to the studio (instead of home) I will be late to update the OP (should catch up around 7.30 pm) sorry for the inconvenience!
On January 12 2013 03:29 Undead1993 wrote: wow the last ffs were so bad so many roaches against sentries ._.
On January 12 2013 03:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Really impressive play and great decision-making by MC there. Forcefield king ♥
Sums up LR thread pretty well!
well when he attacked the ffs were great but when he had to defend it was quite a fail. do you understand now, lr king?
I know your point and mostly agree. MC might wanted to bring more roach in since he was so zealot heavy but that was a bit too much (though worked out). Just LR is funny if you read it without context.
On January 12 2013 03:29 Undead1993 wrote: wow the last ffs were so bad so many roaches against sentries ._.
On January 12 2013 03:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Really impressive play and great decision-making by MC there. Forcefield king ♥
Sums up LR thread pretty well!
well when he attacked the ffs were great but when he had to defend it was quite a fail. do you understand now, lr king?
I know your point and mostly agree. MC might wanted to bring more roach in since he was so zealot heavy but that was a bit too much (though worked out). Just LR is funny if you read it without context.
thaty why you immortal sentry all-in as protoss, why bother playing a macro game? when your opponent can just crush you with t1 units, while you cant do the same on less bases...
shows you whats wrong with this matchup, like what 170 supply vs. 100 without any mistakes on both sides in standard play?
On January 12 2013 03:45 freetgy wrote: thaty why you immortal sentry all-in as protoss, why bother playing a macro game? when your opponent can just crush you with t1 units, while you cant do the same on less bases...
On January 12 2013 03:49 Bagration wrote: Nice to see MKP win. He was so dominant a year ago.
He's still pretty dominant. Problem is his TvZ isn't that good anymore and with zergs being everywhere in tournaments, it gives the impression he's slumping, when it's really only against zerg. I'm worried about GSL with it being zerg city!
I don't really get why Violet used all of his army to basetrade like that. He could have sent all of his lings (30-40ish) to deny MC's third and then hid behind spinewall with roach/infestor.
On January 12 2013 04:08 Swiipii wrote: Violet and MC are playing really wierd .. It's like a contest for the worst play ever . xD
What? MC's plan was completely shut down and his amazing decision making in the base trade won him a game that should not have been possible
Very true . But Violet decision to basetrade with his whole army was completely stupid imo . Just retreat behind a wall of spines and infestors and win the game ...
Game 2 MC saw the push coming miles away but did nothing against it (no wall, didn't even split his army ..) .
EDIT : But I am enjoying the games so who cares :D
On January 12 2013 04:25 Alpina wrote: wooow, i after losing so many drones he still managed to win :O
He killed about 22 drones. However when the blink stalker attack petered out, Violet pushed up to pressure the Protoss front and while doing so made a round of 12 drones and then 9 more. So the Zerg was not really behind economically for any significant time. Plus having 5 hatcheries gave Violet a lot of production capability.
pretty much have to blame the map for that one, violet could've crushed MC's army for like 5 minutes (when he didn't have colossus) but there's nowhere to fight
Wish MC had used that pylon that was at violet's fourth oh well, MKP can take him down!
Edit: I got a few frames of it on y phone and was judging based on the comments here, just got a few more frames and it seems the boss toss is going for four more years...
Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
Well, consider they have highest player skill level of the three, it's not really surprising.
On January 12 2013 04:52 Alpina wrote: Violet failed there. He should have traded armies much sooner and then reinforce with muta so he would have around 30 mutas.
There was never a time when he could trade armies. MC was in front of his base, Mutas don't build that fast. To make the switch you're talking about, he'd have had to be the one attacking MC, so that he actually had time to get Mutas out. But when he pushed out with Roach/Hydra, MC just turtled, behind his 2 base sim-city + FF, and attacking into that would have been suicide. Violet also didn't have a large bank that early on to make a big Muta switch anyway.
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
The production from ironsquid is just awesome, atmosphere, music theme and all the stuff.... I think they deserve to be watched Watch the french stream if you have a minut, the production is sooo good
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
Indeed ! I didn't notice before your post, 17k for EN, 10k for french, not bad !
On January 12 2013 04:52 Alpina wrote: Violet failed there. He should have traded armies much sooner and then reinforce with muta so he would have around 30 mutas.
he needed to not max out on hydralisks.
That way he could constantly jab at MC's wall with roaches and lings whenever MC moved, take small trades, and in doing so free up supply.
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
The production from ironsquid is just awesome, atmosphere, music theme and all the stuff.... I think they deserve to be watched Watch the french stream if you have a minut, the production is sooo good
Also do not underestimate the effect of having Day9, he can attract a ton of viewers
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
It also has the advantage over Proleague that its both EU and US friendly time zones, and HyperX was poorly hyped, a not too interesting player pool, I know MC and Jaedong, but it was a 6man tournament, not too exciting.
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
It also has the advantage over Proleague that its both EU and US friendly time zones, and HyperX was poorly hyped, a not too interesting player pool, I know MC and Jaedong, but it was a 6man tournament, not too exciting.
On January 12 2013 05:04 Makro wrote: french stream of ironsquid was good until moman came, time to mute or switch to the english one
French is a second language for me so I was just wondering - do native French generally dislike listening to Moman? He has the advantage of being a good player, but his French is a bit harder for me to understand/listen to - is that what native French think as well? (for example, both Pomf and Thud speak extremely clearly). Also, what do you think of Anoss?
On January 12 2013 04:53 Bagration wrote: Iron Squid has some pretty decent viewer numbers for an online only broadcast. Better than Proleague numbers, and better than that HyperX tournament this week.
It also has the advantage over Proleague that its both EU and US friendly time zones, and HyperX was poorly hyped, a not too interesting player pool, I know MC and Jaedong, but it was a 6man tournament, not too exciting.
Yes, the Iron Squid timing is more convenient for Europe. Plus Stephano was streaming to > 10,000 viewers during HyperX tournament.
On January 12 2013 04:52 Alpina wrote: Violet failed there. He should have traded armies much sooner and then reinforce with muta so he would have around 30 mutas.
There was never a time when he could trade armies. MC was in front of his base, Mutas don't build that fast. To make the switch you're talking about, he'd have had to be the one attacking MC, so that he actually had time to get Mutas out. But when he pushed out with Roach/Hydra, MC just turtled, behind his 2 base sim-city + FF, and attacking into that would have been suicide. Violet also didn't have a large bank that early on to make a big Muta switch anyway.
Yeah i am talking that he should have attacked when MC was still in his base. At that point violet was maxed with 2000/2000 in bank.
This creep spread thing is really cool, I've never seen it done this way before (don't mean cancelling the hatch, I mean starting from the middle like that). Still, can't cheer against Mvp, sorry Goswser. Gogo Mvp!
On January 12 2013 05:06 Qwerty85 wrote: I bet this rax confused the shit out of Goswer.
It also made Goswser think he was going Mech
Don't see why it would make him think that.
Lifting a Rax that early means the Terran isn't going to use it, therefore, Mech is the likeliest choice because it requires Factories. He also only had one Rax, so that was literally his entire Marine production gone, so Bio wouldn't be the most common choice after that.
On January 12 2013 05:06 Qwerty85 wrote: I bet this rax confused the shit out of Goswer.
It also made Goswser think he was going Mech
Don't see why it would make him think that.
Lifting a Rax that early means the Terran isn't going to use it, therefore, Mech is the likeliest choice because it requires Factories. He also only had one Rax, so that was literally his entire Marine production gone, so Bio wouldn't be the most common choice after that.
You're not really familiar with Terran's build orders if you think that.
On January 12 2013 05:04 Makro wrote: french stream of ironsquid was good until moman came, time to mute or switch to the english one
French is a second language for me so I was just wondering - do native French generally dislike listening to Moman? He has the advantage of being a good player, but his French is a bit harder for me to understand/listen to - is that what native French think as well? (for example, both Pomf and Thud speak extremely clearly). Also, what do you think of Anoss?
There are some French people who dislike Moman, although I don't really understand why, in my opinion he's among the best French casters.
On January 12 2013 05:04 Makro wrote: french stream of ironsquid was good until moman came, time to mute or switch to the english one
French is a second language for me so I was just wondering - do native French generally dislike listening to Moman? He has the advantage of being a good player, but his French is a bit harder for me to understand/listen to - is that what native French think as well? (for example, both Pomf and Thud speak extremely clearly). Also, what do you think of Anoss?
moman is enough clear to be pretty well understood, for anoss he's understandable too and you can feel his passion during his cast
it's not like i hate moman, i just think that he's not the man to cast a tournament like this
On January 12 2013 05:15 Fearest wrote: well, MVP can't win this now
I guess MVP should not have been so cocky with that Barracks at the start of the game
He lost because he did that pre 2-2 timing instead of actual 2-2 timing....
yep there was a big delay after the armoury finished before he started 2-2. and also a bunch of supply blocks and late reactors (I think) so his marine count was low.
Mvp's supply was too low for a Terran who was sitting on 3 bases completely untouched. Other Terrans have no problem staying even, or even getting ahead of a Zerg who's teching this fast.
On January 12 2013 05:17 TheDwf wrote: Too many supply blocks + horrible anti-timing at Goswser's fourth...
The timing was "I pulled him out of position via drops so I can safely siege". Obviously, you'd want to line it up with the 2/2, you still can't call it horrible anti-timing. Well, you can, anything's real these days.
On January 12 2013 05:20 GodZo wrote: Maybe the tournament is located in USA, so MvP plays with some lag, consider that.
Or Mvp didn't play that well simple as that.Come on he's my favourite player and i want him to win but he's not the dominant beast he was in 2011,2 seasons of Gsl in 2012.
I don't know guys, it simply feels like goswser is a league above Mvp, y'know. Maybe, in the future, he might stand a chance. But as it is right now the sheer discrepancy in skill between the two players is astounding. Goswser is truly displaying true RTS skill that Mvp simply cannot match.
Goswser has been really improving incredibally fast, he's probably the second best player in NA right now only behind Scarlett.
He played really well that game, and MVP basically did a build that relied on him being 10x better than Goswser. You can tell that he thought he could just outplay Goswser because of the emphasis on multiple drops, trying to pull him out of position, and playing super incredibally safe.
But Goswser played really well and managed to get off a sick engagement in the final fight, when vs Ultra I feel you want to wait to max out as Terran, and getting a fifth while you incorporate 10x the amount of maruders you have.
Couple that with the fact MVP has been resting from wrist injuries and Goswser has been practicing like a madman, and the results honestly aren't that suprising. I still expect MVP to win the series, but in a solid macro game Goswser hits 90% of injects.
On January 12 2013 05:23 gillon wrote: I don't know guys, it simply feels like goswser is a league above Mvp, y'know. Maybe, in the future, he might stand a chance. But as it is right now the sheer discrepancy in skill between the two players is astounding. Goswser is truly displaying true RTS skill that Mvp simply cannot match.
can one be warned for this kind of trolling? serious question. i've been warned for no particular reason several times on here so i don't really get the rules.
On January 12 2013 05:20 GodZo wrote: Maybe the tournament is located in USA, so MvP plays with some lag, consider that.
Or Mvp didn't play that well simple as that.Come on he's my favourite player and i want him to win but he's not the dominant beast he was in 2011,2 seasons of Gsl in 2012.
Still he most likely practices more against better opponents than gosuuser. He should not lose.
If Goswser wins the series, a word histogram from the LR would include as top words "patchzerg(s)" and "wrist(s)", for sure. Disregarding as usual that Goswser may actually be just good.
On January 12 2013 05:23 Pandain wrote: He played really well that game, and MVP basically did a build that relied on him being 10x better than Goswser. You can tell that he thought he could just outplay Goswser because of the emphasis on multiple drops, trying to pull him out of position, and playing super incredibally safe.
Love how you think you can deduce what Mvp was thinking just because he happens to drop at multiple places. Mentalist is your profession?
On January 12 2013 05:23 tabeatz wrote: I hope goswser can pull through against mvp but it seems unlikely.
Why? He might not be favored but it would not even be that big of an upset. Goswser did beat MMA to get here.
Goswser also beat MKP last month at Numericable Cup, so he is showing some impressive form. You could make a case for him being the best American Zerg over the past month or so.
Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
On January 12 2013 05:23 gillon wrote: I don't know guys, it simply feels like goswser is a league above Mvp, y'know. Maybe, in the future, he might stand a chance. But as it is right now the sheer discrepancy in skill between the two players is astounding. Goswser is truly displaying true RTS skill that Mvp simply cannot match.
can one be warned for this kind of trolling? serious question. i've been warned for no particular reason several times on here so i don't really get the rules.
What do you mean by trolling? Truly there first two games have demonstrated my point? The sheer dominance displayed.
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
On January 12 2013 05:31 PaperPrinter wrote: Terran has to play greedy vs zerg, but can be punished so easily . Zerg can play greedy but cant be punished :/
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Against 2-bases Roaches you need to produce Banshees non-stop and build your second and third Factories very early so you have some Tanks, but honestly Roaches drops are such a bane for mech and scouting it in time is not even possible (no real difference with a frontal Speedroaches timing until Overlord speed is done).
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
You would need to do something like 1 rax fast expand into 2 extra rax and pump marines and marauders with like 2 medivacs around 10-11 min when it hits.
Which means you need to get lucky to go for that build right from the start for some reason because that is not really a build you would do in TvZ.
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
If those builds do damage, the zerg made a mistake. Maybe they could do damage a few weeks ago, but now zergs are used to these banshee hellion builds.
On January 12 2013 05:31 PaperPrinter wrote: Terran has to play greedy vs zerg, but can be punished so easily . Zerg can play greedy but cant be punished :/
This is true. Are you hinting that this is somehow wrong? That it should be some other way?
Roach queen nydus is more common, because its faster, but that is still great, especially if he doesn't see the overlords.
where was the banshee that would normally be fussing around at the watchtowers? or the vikings that he made after scanning the lair? nothing watching the map except the hellions who got chased away, I guess.
I used to play zerg when I did play starcraft 2, 1 year ago, and now all I hope for is zergs losing (except for Nestea). What is wrong blizzard, why did you do that to us ?
On January 12 2013 05:23 Pandain wrote: He played really well that game, and MVP basically did a build that relied on him being 10x better than Goswser. You can tell that he thought he could just outplay Goswser because of the emphasis on multiple drops, trying to pull him out of position, and playing super incredibally safe.
Love how you think you can deduce what Mvp was thinking just because he happens to drop at multiple places. Mentalist is your profession?
There's a reason that the multiple non stop style of drops has sort of fizzed out of styles in exchange for more strategic type of drops.
MVP would just send medivacs despite Goswser having clear vision of everything and the fact that MVP wasn't doing a push at the same time. That style of play is something you do vs players you feel can't handle that, not on the pro level aka.
Couple that with the complete safety that he attempted to play with, as well as the fact that Goswser is unknown probably to most koreans and hasn't hit it big in any international tournaments, and I think it can be assumed more than 50% than MVP would simply try to outplay Goswser in an attempt to win, and I saw evidence of that in game.
On January 12 2013 05:34 Oboeman wrote: Roach queen nydus is more common, because its faster, but that is still great, especially if he doesn't see the overlords.
where was the banshee that would normally be fussing around at the watchtowers? or the vikings that he made after scanning the lair? nothing watching the map except the hellions who got chased away, I guess.
I think he cancelled the banshee after scanning and seeing a spore in the main
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
If those builds do damage, the zerg made a mistake. Maybe they could do damage a few weeks ago, but now zergs are used to these banshee hellion builds.
Yeah, no amount of skill is gonna get a traditional hellion banshee opening any proper damage without the zerg making mistakes.
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
If those builds do damage, the zerg made a mistake.
Well then most zergs make mistakes. See ForGG do this on ladder. 25% of the time he kills the zerg, but at least 50% of the other games he does enough damage to make it worthwhile. For a zerg to make themselves completely bulletproof to this attack would really set them back if the terran greedies.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
A month ago or two yep, now they normally just die horribly to aggression in most maps.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Maybe you don't need to be doing all of those things if zerg doesn't take a 3rd base. consider making units instead.
On January 12 2013 05:23 gillon wrote: I don't know guys, it simply feels like goswser is a league above Mvp, y'know. Maybe, in the future, he might stand a chance. But as it is right now the sheer discrepancy in skill between the two players is astounding. Goswser is truly displaying true RTS skill that Mvp simply cannot match.
can one be warned for this kind of trolling? serious question. i've been warned for no particular reason several times on here so i don't really get the rules.
What do you mean by trolling? Truly there first two games have demonstrated my point? The sheer dominance displayed.
On January 12 2013 05:34 Lixo wrote: I used to play zerg when I did play starcraft 2, 1 year ago, and now all I hope for is zergs losing (except for Nestea). What is wrong blizzard, why did you do that to us ?
On January 12 2013 05:31 Snowbear wrote: Haha PERFECT! I want you zergs to spread the word and use this build A LOT. 90% of terrans go hellion banshee, and guess what they don't have around 10:00? AN ARMY. I wonder how long it takes before zergs start using this more, because this really hardcounters every hellion banshee build.
Most hellion banshee builds try and do some damage. MVP just wasn't there for these games, a shame.
If those builds do damage, the zerg made a mistake.
Well then most zergs make mistakes. See ForGG do this on ladder. 25% of the time he kills the zerg, but at least 50% of the other games he does enough damage to make it worthwhile. For a zerg to make themselves completely bulletproof to this attack would really set them back if the terran greedies.
Completely unrelated, but shoutout to ForGG for being able to break people apart with ease and getting more out of his armies than most other terrans. He's quite the master of engagements
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Hellion banshee provides great scouting if used correctly, obviously you don't make third and double ups when you scout the two-baseing zerg. The best terran in the world didn't play his best, and that gets punished hard when you face the might of the swarm!
On January 12 2013 05:34 Oboeman wrote: Roach queen nydus is more common, because its faster, but that is still great, especially if he doesn't see the overlords.
where was the banshee that would normally be fussing around at the watchtowers? or the vikings that he made after scanning the lair? nothing watching the map except the hellions who got chased away, I guess.
I think he cancelled the banshee after scanning and seeing a spore in the main
That's possible. I think he suspected 2 base muta when he saw the lair.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
And you think any normal player will put marines in his main when he sees 20 roaches coming? Before you know what happened, the roaches are dropped.
The vikings were the mistake I guess. Could have had 3 banshees, plus two tanks and once you snipe the queens its a race between the roaches doing enough damage vs 3 orbital?
That said, the chances of weird outcomes is always higher online.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
100% wrong. You're deluded if you think you can kill so many Overlords with a handful of Marines before they drop.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
What? No, you still get banshee, because otherwise you're just hoping you're not getting roach/ling/blinged. So no, a bio build dies fucking hardcore aswell, because 7-9 marines still won't hold 20 roaches.
Called goswser's win yesterday or 2 days ago, don't remember. I'm sure you will claim that goswser is just a really really amazing player (one of the 30 "upcoming" top zergs perhaps), but surely you must understand that when trash like this rolls over someone like MVP, there's something really wrong.
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Maybe you don't need to be doing all of those things if zerg doesn't take a 3rd base. consider making units instead.
Dude, seriously, you can't just throw a factory and pump siege tanks from your command centers. It doesn't work like that. It's a tough build to play, it's debatable whether it's safe or not and MVP definitely could have done stuff different. But don't act like he suddenly could've canceled the 3rd CC and one armory and spawn 5 siege tanks and 3 banshees.
On January 12 2013 05:37 Derez wrote: The vikings were the mistake I guess. Could have had 3 banshees, plus two tanks and once you snipe the queens its a race between the roaches doing enough damage vs 3 orbital?
That said, the chances of weird outcomes is always higher online.
To conclude: hellion banshee builds are actually becoming less viable, because these roach builds counter them. The next step is roach hydra (stephano is the only zerg so far mastering it, the rest is usually 1-2 months behind him).
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Maybe you don't need to be doing all of those things if zerg doesn't take a 3rd base. consider making units instead.
Terran is not zerg. You can't just scout no early third and make a round of marines and marauders. The infrastructure will already be put down before you get to scout the 3rd timing. If you went mech or helion banshee etc. you are already dead.
You would need to have bio as your game plan right from the bat and do a TvP like 1rax fe build into 10 min marine marauder medivac timing to defend that.If you go for fast tanks you still wont have enough, if you go banshees you still wont have enough. This hits at 10:30.
Given that Lucifron has demolished and obliterated Goswser with the same opening several times the last two weeks, I'm leaning more towards poor play by Mvp.
On January 12 2013 05:34 Lixo wrote: I used to play zerg when I did play starcraft 2, 1 year ago, and now all I hope for is zergs losing (except for Nestea). What is wrong blizzard, why did you do that to us ?
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
And you think any normal player will put marines in his main when he sees 20 roaches coming? Before you know what happened, the roaches are dropped.
Normal player?Well a normal zerg player won't hit the push perfectly either.Even if as you say this build is unstoppable why doesn't every zerg player use it?Stating specific ways to counter this is pointless
On January 12 2013 05:44 sitromit wrote: It's his teammate Nestea who came up with this build, bringing a Queen to spread creep on the Terran's 3rd. Why is Mvp not scouting it, expecting it?
Maybe because he expects foreigners to be worse than Koreans? Or that Goswser is relatively unknown compared to many other foreigners, so he might be underestimating him.
On January 12 2013 05:44 sitromit wrote: It's his teammate Nestea who came up with this build, bringing a Queen to spread creep on the Terran's 3rd. Why is Mvp not scouting it, expecting it?
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
Bio? How much bio do you think you can have if you follow your banshee hellion build up with a third CC, double grades, and raxes just finnishing making reactors?
Well when you go bio,you usually don't go for banshees.then you have marines which kill overlords,fast.Then you have bunkers.There
And you think any normal player will put marines in his main when he sees 20 roaches coming? Before you know what happened, the roaches are dropped.
Normal player?Well a normal zerg player won't hit the push perfectly either.Even if as you say this build is unstoppable why doesn't every zerg player use it?Stating specific ways to counter this is pointless
Why? Because they don't know it well yet. It took months before all zergs switched to infestor abuse. Stephano did it months before the rest, and then the zergs followed.
On January 12 2013 05:44 sitromit wrote: It's his teammate Nestea who came up with this build, bringing a Queen to spread creep on the Terran's 3rd. Why is Mvp not scouting it, expecting it?
Yes, how dares he not be omniscient?
As a high level player, he's expected to be aware of the metagame and the possible moves his opponents can make against him to get an edge, right? Isn't that what high level play is about?
On January 12 2013 05:30 Qwerty85 wrote: That was like 20 + roaches 11min in the game. What build from terran can actually defend this?
Bio lol
You would need to do something like 1 rax fast expand into 2 extra rax and pump marines and marauders with like 2 medivacs around 10-11 min when it hits.
Which means you need to get lucky to go for that build right from the start for some reason because that is not really a build you would do in TvZ.
And it's easy to scout that so the zerg wouldn't roach drop you at all.
atleast goswser played zerg as it was meant to be played ... lots of zerglings, banelings and ultras, attacking from all sides ... thats how the swarm should look like, please remove those borelords from the game!
On January 12 2013 05:55 revel8 wrote: MVP got rolled!
Pink Millenium Zergs too strong! Goswser has beaten MMA, MKP and MVP recently! He is definitely following in Stephano's footsteps!
Also never bet against Day9.
And Polt man !
Actually I'm just really happy. THis guy took a risk in his life, going to Europe, far from his home and family and he's improving so much and so fast. Congratz Goswser !
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
On January 12 2013 05:56 Bahajinbo wrote: Just one question: Was MVP really playing THAT bad? I didn't see the games, but I can't even believe the results.
It wasn't the Mvp we used to watch but the margin of error in TvZ is really small for terran.
On January 12 2013 05:56 Bahajinbo wrote: Just one question: Was MVP really playing THAT bad? I didn't see the games, but I can't even believe the results.
First game he played horribly, yeah. Second game he didn't scout, he got blindcountered. Third game was okay.
On January 12 2013 05:56 Bahajinbo wrote: Just one question: Was MVP really playing THAT bad? I didn't see the games, but I can't even believe the results.
He didn't bring his A-game, but he didn't play THAT bad. GosWser played solid both mechanically and strategically,
U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
On January 12 2013 05:56 Bahajinbo wrote: Just one question: Was MVP really playing THAT bad? I didn't see the games, but I can't even believe the results.
Why? Mvp always has troubles in online events and then wins offline ones.
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
As a Mvp fanboy I am also finding excuses but it is true that terran suffers more from bad ping than zerg.
On January 12 2013 05:56 Bahajinbo wrote: Just one question: Was MVP really playing THAT bad? I didn't see the games, but I can't even believe the results.
Why? Mvp always has troubles in online events and then wins offline ones.
not really, he's won like three pretty big online tournaments.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
It doesn't matter who's better overall, it matters who's better in this series. Or else MKP/Taeja/HerO would win every game they ever played.
I bought the premium ticket to go see MVP at the IronSquid... I'm so sad... If i could get a refund i'll do it ... I play Zerg and ... god WHY GOSWER WHY ??????? How can you do this
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
Is it really NA? I would expect it to be EU, with Iron Squid being a french tournament.
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
Is it really NA? I would expect it to be EU, with Iron Squid being a french tournament.
Even more so. How can you expect to play the game with 1.0-1.3s lag?
On January 12 2013 05:59 Lazzi wrote: I can't believe how the music theme are good! it adds so much to the tournament.
I'm glad someone likes it. It's just terrible cheap generic Hans Zimmer imitation. It's this and gangnam style. It accounts for like 6/7 of the world's music output.
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
Is it really NA? I would expect it to be EU, with Iron Squid being a french tournament.
Impossible you cant play from EU to Korea its Korea to NA
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
On January 12 2013 05:53 Zenbrez wrote: Did his wrists finally implode?
I'd say Mvp would prefer imploding wrists rather than being forced to play under these conditions. No skill can overcome the disadvantage of having 300-400 ping due to playing on NA servers from KR.
Is it really NA? I would expect it to be EU, with Iron Squid being a french tournament.
No, always the best server for players : KR vs KR on KR, NA vs NA on NA, EU vs EU on EU, all the rest on NA.
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
How good is his ZvZ?
He lost 3-1 to Jaedong in HyperX but the games were really really close.
Are people really surprised about MVP losing to Goswer ? I mean we all know he is struggling a lot with his wrists, and can't really train that much. Moreover MVP has never been impressive in foreign tournaments, he focused exclusively on GSL.
All of this against one of the best upcoming foreigners, not that surprising.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
For sure, a well deserved code s seed is in order here
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
This is absolutely hilarious. I guess you're not one for not making ridiculous statements though :D
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gevna wrote: Are people really surprised about MVP losing to Goswer ? I mean we all know he is struggling a lot with his wrists, and can't really train that much. Moreover MVP has never been impressive in foreign tournaments, he focused exclusively on GSL.
All of this against one of the best upcoming foreigners, not that surprising.
IEM, WCG, MLG and Blizzcon was kind of impressing. Not online though obviously.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gevna wrote: Are people really surprised about MVP losing to Goswer ? I mean we all know he is struggling a lot with his wrists, and can't really train that much. Moreover MVP has never been impressive in foreign tournaments, he focused exclusively on GSL.
All of this against one of the best upcoming foreigners, not that surprising.
Again with this? Did people forget the part where Mvp won MLG, WCG, Blizzcon, and IEM? The only foreign tourney I can remember that he performed poorly at was HSC. All the others, he either won outright or placed highly in.
It's like people just read that misinformation Wax posted and accepted it without question.
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
On January 12 2013 06:11 Zheryn wrote: I don't understand Leenock's build at all, why get a third at the perfect time for your opponent to deny it with mutas :/
the build didn't make a whole lot of sense to me either.
I thought maybe it was going to be 4 queen into 1/1 speed roach timing, but his lair started waaaaay too late for that.
skipping ling speed and baneling nest just isn't that great in my opinion.
On January 12 2013 06:18 CosmicSpiral wrote: Were the Goswser-MVP matches that badly in favor of Goswser?
I only saw game 2 and 3, in game 2 he hardcountered mvp's build with a roach rush and in game 3 it was pretty standard and he just slowly won an advantage with ling/infestor/bane/ultra
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
And even if you are right. If the best foreigner in BW, idra(or take any other one you like better), would prepare like 2 month straight to beat someone in a Bo5 who is an accomplished A-Teamer, say Stats. You think he would have been able to do that? Cuz i certainly don't see it. So it still feels weird to me that things like this are possible, in a non mirror matchup(cuz in a mirror matchup, i see how things are sometimes coinflippy)
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gevna wrote: Are people really surprised about MVP losing to Goswer ? I mean we all know he is struggling a lot with his wrists, and can't really train that much. Moreover MVP has never been impressive in foreign tournaments, he focused exclusively on GSL.
All of this against one of the best upcoming foreigners, not that surprising.
Never been impressive in foreign tournaments? Get out of here with that shit. He doesnt travel a lot and yet he has won Blizzcon, MLG, IEM and WCG.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
On January 12 2013 06:19 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
Huk is in Code S again.
And he was seeded into the easiest group in order to get there.
You all can keep sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to hear the truth, but that doesn't make it any less true.
On January 11 2013 16:00 Inzan1ty wrote: Predictions
HerO 2-3 MarineKingPrime
Comment its really time for MKP to win something again and after the Up/Downs HerO looks a bit more shaky as of late
viOlet 2-3 MC
Comment The Bosstoss is back in Code S. After a long dryspell hes hungry to boost his wallet again
Goswser 3-1 Mvp
Comment Shocker of the tournament? Not really, we all know in what condition Mvp is right now and I doubt he will take this too serious, probably prefers to recover for GSL.
Life 1-3 Leenock
Comment Life is the best player in the world right now, but Leenock is out for revenge and its his turn again to get on top of the Zerg throne. Sounds biased? Hell who doesnt love Leenock...
Everyone loses from time to time. Even MVP, even Flash, even Nestea, even DRG, even MC. Stop acting like this every time one of your gods falls from the heavens and into reality.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
On January 12 2013 06:19 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
Huk is in Code S again.
And he was seeded into the easiest group in order to get there.
You all can keep sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to hear the truth, but that doesn't make it any less true.
I replied to someone claiming something was a fact. It wasn't. End of story.
You responding to my correction changes nothing about that. Nothing wrong with people making an argument, but if they claim something is a fact then should expect to get called on it when it is untrue.
On January 12 2013 06:19 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
Huk is in Code S again. So not a fact then.
Yeah and i am so happy for him. And i was exited during his games And i will cheer for him
But he only impressed me against flying (cuz the way he pressured him and took an expo was really nice) who was not very impressive, and also we all knwe that foreigner ps are able to take korean ps in PvPs Against Fantasy he did a gateway all in which was well executed, but fantasy did not scout and looked lost against the build, i doubt that will work in Code S. And the game against Center was just weird...
I think people waaaaaay underestimated huk like he was a noob, and now they are overhyping him, like he's going to take code S, when in truth, he's just a slightly inferior version of MC.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
Well please enlighten us why these games was an indicator of balance issues?. I'm dying to hear
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
Well please enlighten us why these games was an indicator of balance issues?. I'm dying to hear
If you'd actually read my posts that you've been replying to instead of going off on mindless fanboy rants you'd have known that I've already stated that this is neither the place nor the time.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
Well please enlighten us why these games was an indicator of balance issues?. I'm dying to hear
You know. Maybe i would buy that preperation story if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.(yeah yeah huk. I know)
And even if you are right. If the best foreigner in BW, idra(or take any other one you like better), would prepare like 2 month straight to beat someone in a Bo5 who is an accomplished A-Teamer, say Stats. You think he would have been able to do that? Cuz i certainly don't see it. So it still feels weird to me that things like this are possible, in a non mirror matchup(cuz in a mirror matchup, i see how things are sometimes coinflippy)
On January 12 2013 06:19 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
On January 12 2013 05:58 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: U know. I kinda .... want to cry a little. I mean. No offense to gowser he has improved a lot. And i hope he's happy and all. But. In which world. Is he a better player.
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do. This got nothing to do with mechanical skills but everything to do that Goswser studied and prepared very well for MVP while I guess MVP thought this would be easy spanking a foreigner and didn't prepare at all.
And we see the results
You know. Maybe i would buy that if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.
Huk is in Code S again.
And he was seeded into the easiest group in order to get there.
You all can keep sticking your fingers in your ears and refusing to hear the truth, but that doesn't make it any less true.
I replied to someone claiming something was a fact. It wasn't. End of story.
You responding to my correction changes nothing about that. Nothing wrong with people making an argument, but if they claim something is a fact then should expect to get called on it when it is untrue.
A single "exception" to the claim does not an argument worth bothering to type make.
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 05:58 Benjamin99 wrote: It seems to me Goswser prepared really well and knew exactly was MVP was going to do and MVP didn't prepare at all.
So well done Goswser
[quote]
He was in this series it was not even close.
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
Well please enlighten us why these games was an indicator of balance issues?. I'm dying to hear
You know. Maybe i would buy that preperation story if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.(yeah yeah huk. I know)
And even if you are right. If the best foreigner in BW, idra(or take any other one you like better), would prepare like 2 month straight to beat someone in a Bo5 who is an accomplished A-Teamer, say Stats. You think he would have been able to do that? Cuz i certainly don't see it. So it still feels weird to me that things like this are possible, in a non mirror matchup(cuz in a mirror matchup, i see how things are sometimes coinflippy)
It feels weird to me that you're vast knowledge of competitve Starcraft is somehow without knowledge of an unknown sniping a player that has hundreds of recorded matches. I'm confused that with all of your wisdom you are somehow unable to grasp such a concept and instead blame game design.
On January 12 2013 06:30 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:27 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:24 gillon wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:23 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:18 gillon wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:16 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:12 n0ise wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:10 Benjamin99 wrote:
On January 12 2013 06:04 Gimmeurladderpoints wrote: [quote]
Yeah I saw that he slaugtherd MVP. But how is that possible. I mean. MVP is basicly the closest thing we got to a SC2 bonjwa? How is it possible for some pretty good but absolutly unremarkable foreigner to come out of nowhere and 3-0 the guy.
I am concerned. It either means that MVP has lost his ooomph. Or that the game design makes it easy for one race to eliminate skill gaps.
Or MVP had an reaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaally off day. but you know... still feels weird to me.
Skill gaps? Yea I get you disguised balance whine post but if you look at the matches Goswser knew exactly what MVP was going to do.
You're starting to understand 30% of what a lot of people are complaining about
Whine whine whine and more balance whine but the problem is these games had nothing to do with balance issues but everything to do with an extremely well prepared Goswser who countered MVP time after time. Im wondering how much time Goswser spend analysing MVP replay on these maps.
I disagree, but won't start a discussion of it here because it is neither the time nor the place.
Well you might disagree because you and many other balance whiners got no clue about sc2. These matches was absolutely not an indicate about balance issue but an indicator of a well prepared Goswser. Don´t get me wrong the match up do got some issues. Infestor/broodlords is to strong but how many times in these 3 matches you saw that army composition?
But I understand its easier just to shout balance whines then understanding why Goswser won
Ah, yes. The old "you've got no clue but I'm an expert" response. Well played, I'm sure you're a real Sun Tzu of starcraft.
Well please enlighten us why these games was an indicator of balance issues?. I'm dying to hear
You know. Maybe i would buy that preperation story if not for the fact that every single foreigner who is able to produce results over the last 8-9 month was a zerg.(yeah yeah huk. I know)
And even if you are right. If the best foreigner in BW, idra(or take any other one you like better), would prepare like 2 month straight to beat someone in a Bo5 who is an accomplished A-Teamer, say Stats. You think he would have been able to do that? Cuz i certainly don't see it. So it still feels weird to me that things like this are possible, in a non mirror matchup(cuz in a mirror matchup, i see how things are sometimes coinflippy)
It feels weird to me that you're vast knowledge of competitve Starcraft is somehow without knowledge of an unknown sniping a player that has hundreds of recorded matches. I'm confused that with all of your wisdom you are somehow unable to grasp such a concept and instead blame game design.
I am surprised that you're vast knowledge of making snide an veeeery funny comments on the internet has not yet made you king of the internet. I mean, why so agressive?
All of the snipers you are talking about, where koreans, b-teamer koreans, but still good enough to slaughter the best foreigners on a daily basis.
I find watching a stream in a language I don't understand highly entertaining. Why did that guy decide to do some random karate chops? We'll never know.
why the hell is every one of these up and coming great foreigners that are at a level of legit competing with koreans always zerg. its starting to get annoying
It feels weird to me that you're vast knowledge of competitve Starcraft is somehow without knowledge of an unknown sniping a player that has hundreds of recorded matches. I'm confused that with all of your wisdom you are somehow unable to grasp such a concept and instead blame game design.
I am surprised that you're vast knowledge of making snide an veeeery funny comments on the internet has not yet made you king of the internet. I mean, why so agressive?
All of the snipers you are talking about, where koreans, b-teamer koreans, but still good enough to slaughter the best foreigners on a daily basis.
On January 12 2013 06:43 Larkin wrote: Sick infestor useage by Leenock.
I find watching a stream in a language I don't understand highly entertaining. Why did that guy decide to do some random karate chops? We'll never know.
He say the early game was boring, and after lots of actions and moves ! (bam bam bam like dash dash dash)
On January 12 2013 06:46 DifuntO wrote: Goswer beat Mvp? How did that happen? Did i miss anything cool?
you missed MVP getting supply blocked and starting 2/2 late and losing all his units in the middle of the map. you also missed him getting supply blocked on his first medivacs.
On January 12 2013 06:43 Larkin wrote: Sick infestor useage by Leenock.
I find watching a stream in a language I don't understand highly entertaining. Why did that guy decide to do some random karate chops? We'll never know.
He say the early game was boring, and after lots of actions and moves ! (bam bam bam like dash dash dash)
(Sorry for my english)
Ah that's quite alright! Thank you very much good sir.
Im more and more convinced people in these threads have never actually watched real sports at all. In their world the better person/team/etc wins. Always. Because they are better. 100% of the time. Any loss is a fluke, jetlag, lag, bad day, etc. Sometimes the underdog wins. Mvp wasn't doing anything special in his games and probably thought he could just play his standard way and overpower goswser. However goswser very obviously prepared a lot for these matches and outplayed Mvp every game. I am a huge Mvp fan but he straight up lost. People on here whine about the scene dying yet whenever an upset happens, i.e. non korean beating koreans they will pull out every excuse in the book to explain as if a non-korean player who works hard and beats a strong opponent OFFENDS them. Then you wonder why interest in the scene declines. I feel like I've had to say this like 10 times.
On January 12 2013 06:55 sitromit wrote: This is so risky. Leenock is building a ton of Roaches, Life has nothing, morphing Lair. I think he'll just die to this.
On January 12 2013 06:55 sitromit wrote: This is so risky. Leenock is building a ton of Roaches, Life has nothing, morphing Lair. I think he'll just die to this.
He's good.
Yeah he held it but took too much damage, died a few minutes later to the follow up...
On January 12 2013 06:55 sitromit wrote: This is so risky. Leenock is building a ton of Roaches, Life has nothing, morphing Lair. I think he'll just die to this.
He's good.
Yeah he held it but took too much damage, died a few minutes later to the follow up...
It was even after the attack. Leenock made more roaches and had +1, that's all.
On January 12 2013 06:55 Gojira621 wrote: Im more and more convinced people in these threads have never actually watched real sports at all. In their world the better person/team/etc wins. Always. Because they are better. 100% of the time. Any loss is a fluke, jetlag, lag, bad day, etc. Sometimes the underdog wins. Mvp wasn't doing anything special in his games and probably thought he could just play his standard way and overpower goswser. However goswser very obviously prepared a lot for these matches and outplayed Mvp every game. I am a huge Mvp fan but he straight up lost. People on here whine about the scene dying yet whenever an upset happens, i.e. non korean beating koreans they will pull out every excuse in the book to explain as if a non-korean player who works hard and beats a strong opponent OFFENDS them. Then you wonder why interest in the scene declines. I feel like I've had to say this like 10 times.
This guy gets it. I will never understand the "best player should always win" attitude.
On January 12 2013 06:55 sitromit wrote: This is so risky. Leenock is building a ton of Roaches, Life has nothing, morphing Lair. I think he'll just die to this.
He's good.
Yeah he held it but took too much damage, died a few minutes later to the follow up...
It was even after the attack. Leenock made more roaches and had +1, that's all.
Leenock had the resources to make more Roaches and take a 3rd, Life didn't. That's why he went and tried to poke, saw Leenock's army was bigger, had to pull back. Then Leenock just came and killed him.
On January 12 2013 06:55 Gojira621 wrote: Im more and more convinced people in these threads have never actually watched real sports at all. In their world the better person/team/etc wins. Always. Because they are better. 100% of the time. Any loss is a fluke, jetlag, lag, bad day, etc. Sometimes the underdog wins. Mvp wasn't doing anything special in his games and probably thought he could just play his standard way and overpower goswser. However goswser very obviously prepared a lot for these matches and outplayed Mvp every game. I am a huge Mvp fan but he straight up lost. People on here whine about the scene dying yet whenever an upset happens, i.e. non korean beating koreans they will pull out every excuse in the book to explain as if a non-korean player who works hard and beats a strong opponent OFFENDS them. Then you wonder why interest in the scene declines. I feel like I've had to say this like 10 times.
I think one of the reason is because of the race. Whether it is by chance or other issues, most of these foreigner 'breakthroughs' have been Zerg. It is like the Korean Terran issue in 2011. Players like Happy, Ganzi, etc never really got their due. When they made GSL Ro4, people were like 'Oh, they played Terran, of course they will do well.'
I mean, Sniper's GSL victory was probably the most downplayed GSL ever. Sure, he wasn't a fan favorite. But I am pretty sure he would have gotten more love if he played Terran or Protoss.
On January 12 2013 06:55 Gojira621 wrote: Im more and more convinced people in these threads have never actually watched real sports at all. In their world the better person/team/etc wins. Always. Because they are better. 100% of the time. Any loss is a fluke, jetlag, lag, bad day, etc. Sometimes the underdog wins. Mvp wasn't doing anything special in his games and probably thought he could just play his standard way and overpower goswser. However goswser very obviously prepared a lot for these matches and outplayed Mvp every game. I am a huge Mvp fan but he straight up lost. People on here whine about the scene dying yet whenever an upset happens, i.e. non korean beating koreans they will pull out every excuse in the book to explain as if a non-korean player who works hard and beats a strong opponent OFFENDS them. Then you wonder why interest in the scene declines. I feel like I've had to say this like 10 times.
I agree. It is actually good to have upsets where the underdog wins. It makes the games more interesting and the outcome more on the knife-edge. Also having more players like Goswser emerge to challenge the established players is good for the scene as it shows growth. As players leave we need new players to come through or the player base will shrink until it is negligible. I understand some folks might be upset because their favourite lost but they should be used to it, as SC2 is not a game where anyone has 100% win-rate or even close to it.
Goswser deserves credit for decisively defeating MVP. MVP may have a bigger list of achievements to his name but past achievements do not win SC2 games, it is the actions within the game that determine the victor. Victories are not given but need to be earned - every game.
On January 12 2013 06:55 Gojira621 wrote: Im more and more convinced people in these threads have never actually watched real sports at all. In their world the better person/team/etc wins. Always. Because they are better. 100% of the time. Any loss is a fluke, jetlag, lag, bad day, etc. Sometimes the underdog wins. Mvp wasn't doing anything special in his games and probably thought he could just play his standard way and overpower goswser. However goswser very obviously prepared a lot for these matches and outplayed Mvp every game. I am a huge Mvp fan but he straight up lost. People on here whine about the scene dying yet whenever an upset happens, i.e. non korean beating koreans they will pull out every excuse in the book to explain as if a non-korean player who works hard and beats a strong opponent OFFENDS them. Then you wonder why interest in the scene declines. I feel like I've had to say this like 10 times.
This guy gets it. I will never understand the "best player should always win" attitude.
Mostly because on real life esports there is no imbalance to blame (oh wait there is, the judge).
Arguably the worlds two best players playing it out, and it's down to the last game, I do not know who to cheer for at all, Leenock the cute kid who thinks fast than a computer, or Life, the hardcore mafia convict on coke.
Agree with all of the above. It's such a treat to watch these, and to think I was sad that they met in Ro16 already. I still kind of am, but at least we got to see it 100%.
On January 12 2013 07:24 Hollandrock wrote: Wow... That MVP game .... Biggest joke I've ever seen... HOW THE HELL DOES DB THINK THIS GAME IS EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO BEING BALANCED!?!!?!?!??
Wow..
Did you actually watch the games? Mvp played shit. Like really shit. No scouting, totally unprepared for creative and interesting strategies. No balance involved.
On January 12 2013 07:24 Hollandrock wrote: Wow... That MVP game .... Biggest joke I've ever seen... HOW THE HELL DOES DB THINK THIS GAME IS EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO BEING BALANCED!?!!?!?!??
On January 12 2013 07:28 LittLeD wrote: Is this the Anti-Fantasy timing? Giving up right when you see your opponent's units without taking a fight?
IdrA gg timing? but seriously Leenock had no chance. +1 and roach speed were finishing for Life and Leenock would have to attack into a concave where Life had short rally distance.
On January 12 2013 07:24 Hollandrock wrote: Wow... That MVP game .... Biggest joke I've ever seen... HOW THE HELL DOES DB THINK THIS GAME IS EVEN REMOTELY CLOSE TO BEING BALANCED!?!!?!?!??
Wow..
User was temp banned for this post.
Wrist, Lag, Generally bad play from MVP and good from Goswser.
If you're gonna have to judge this match-up, then that particularly set of games is a terrible sample group.
On January 12 2013 07:28 ref4 wrote: Are all matches played on NA? How much do these cross server lags affect the players really?
KR vs KR are played on KR.
thanks, but i was wondering that for NA-KR matches played on NA, how much of a lag in terms of time is there and does the lg persist throughout the game?
On January 12 2013 07:28 ref4 wrote: Are all matches played on NA? How much do these cross server lags affect the players really?
Well assuming mvp played on NA, he should lose every game. I didnt see the actual game yet, but terran is too micro intensive and lag takes away any micro advantage a skilled player has. Still possible to win, but hard if your other opponent is good.
On January 12 2013 07:28 LittLeD wrote: Is this the Anti-Fantasy timing? Giving up right when you see your opponent's units without taking a fight?
as a zerg player it made complete sense. Trying to go up into that ramp with some lings, banes, and maybe 10 roaches vs like 15-20 roaches there was just no way leenock could break it and even if he somehow did there was no way he would be able to do significant damage before reinforcements overwhelmed. GG leenock :[ grats life
On January 12 2013 07:28 ref4 wrote: Are all matches played on NA? How much do these cross server lags affect the players really?
KR vs KR are played on KR.
thanks, but i was wondering that for NA-KR matches played on NA, how much of a lag in terms of time is there and does the lg persist throughout the game?
Goswser is in France I think so it was EU-KR so they played on NA? The lag is usually 300-400 ms from both sides.
On January 12 2013 07:28 ref4 wrote: Are all matches played on NA? How much do these cross server lags affect the players really?
KR vs KR are played on KR.
thanks, but i was wondering that for NA-KR matches played on NA, how much of a lag in terms of time is there and does the lg persist throughout the game?
Goswser is in France I think so it was EU-KR so they played on NA? The lag is usually 300-400 ms from both sides.
Unless it was played this week, Goswser was in Las Vegas for HyperX.
If in the last month Lucifron can go 4-0 against Goswser, and Mvp loses 0-3, what does that tell us? I think Mvp has problems, it was apparent when he finished last place in his group at Blizzard Cup.
On January 12 2013 07:58 Sumahi wrote: Ever since Parting left Startale I don't really want him to win. I hope Nestea advances over him in the next set of matches.
On January 12 2013 08:00 sitromit wrote: Looks like the matches were played on the 3rd.
If in the last month Lucifron can go 4-0 against Goswser, and Mvp loses 0-3, what does that tell us? I think Mvp has problems, it was apparent when he finished last place in his group at Blizzard Cup.
I think everyone knows about Mvp's problems with his wrists.
People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
People are judging the situation by Mvp's previous skill level, not his current play. Keep in mind, that the 2 Protoss he beat last season in Code A to make it back to Code S both finished last place in their up-and-down groups.
On January 12 2013 07:58 Sumahi wrote: Ever since Parting left Startale I don't really want him to win. I hope Nestea advances over him in the next set of matches.
Why?
Allow us StarTale fans to be bitter for a few months, okay. ._.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
bang on.
also, simply put. there isn't much of a skill gap yet anyway.
BW had 10 years for the Koreans to break away from the pack.
come back in 10 years and see if the best players are losing to some b team foreigner.
You're simply comparing two very different beasts.
I don't understand the balance whine MVP a few months ago was owning people before the infestor nerf. Hell during the match gowser made a total of 0 broodlords and max 10 infestors a game. MVP is injured, gowser has been working his ass off, and anyone who watched the games could clearly see the choice of strats were totally in gowser's favor. This is SC after all MVP tomorrow could 3-0 gowser and no one would mention a thing. It is only when an upset that had all the right things for the underdog fall into place that everyone jumps in uproar for nothing.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
So you choose to be disappointed by a guy that spent the holidays in France, an ocean away from his family, in a country where he doesn't have a lot of friends so that he could have a shot at beating a wonderful player - though diminished. It's easy to scream patchzerg but to even think goswser isn't working his ass off to make it to the top is very condescending.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
So you choose to be disappointed by a guy that spent the holidays in France, an ocean away from his family, in a country where he doesn't have a lot of friends so that he could have a shot at beating a wonderful player - though diminished. It's easy to scream patchzerg but to even think goswser isn't working his ass off to make it to the top is very condescending.
People complain when no foreigners are beating koreans, then they complain when they do.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
So you choose to be disappointed by a guy that spent the holidays in France, an ocean away from his family, in a country where he doesn't have a lot of friends so that he could have a shot at beating a wonderful player - though diminished. It's easy to scream patchzerg but to even think goswser isn't working his ass off to make it to the top is very condescending.
Leave the France part out. That ruins your argument so much, at least to Americans. I'm not sure if you know.. but spending holidays in France is kind of normal and considered amazing to most Americans (even if we hate French people). I get what you're saying but god it sounded so awful and funny to me.
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
Really?
Really?
Theres being a fan, and then theres just being an obnoxious troll
On January 12 2013 06:02 TeeTS wrote: goswser simply outclassed MVP. has nothing to do with balance, he is just a far better player. I wonder how he would do in Code S.
Really?
Really?
Theres being a fan, and then theres just being an obnoxious troll
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
And there were upsets in BW. Didn't M18M beat Flash in PL?
On January 12 2013 08:16 sitromit wrote: People are judging the situation by Mvp's previous skill level, not his current play. Keep in mind, that the 2 Protoss he beat last season in Code A to make it back to Code S both finished last place in their up-and-down groups.
Yup. But looking at his condition during the GOM year end awards and his game play in Season 5, WEM, Blizzard Cup, and Iron Squid, I am not sure how much Mvp has been able to practice since his finals vs Life. He kind of dodged a bullet in Code A in that he probably got one of the weakest brackets.
Hopefully, he has been taking his time to have some rest and treatment on his wrists.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
Why is it dissapointing to see a foreigner beat a korean? This is a actually a good thing from a competitive point of view
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
Chess is probably the onf of the most respected and played strategy games in the world and there literally is no "underdog" factor. If you're the better and more talented player you will win. For a Grandmaster elo in Chess, a genius IQ is basically required.
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans. Watching a game where the outcome is still uncertain is much more exciting then a game where the result is already known, like when a team is already winning 4-0. It is a basic concept. Suspense is appealing.
SC2 is a game where surprise is a factor. Players try and disguise their plans/builds/tech path. They try and attack in places where their opponents army is not. Armies can be caught out of position. A player can cheese or make a surprise attack. No similar concept exists in Chess, where everything is visible. A player just needs to assess the possible moves and surprise is not possible. SC2 is not chess.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans.
We are talking about one on one strategy games. Where did soccer come from? That's not even comparing apples to oranges; that's comparing apples to cheeseburgers.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
Chess is probably the onf of the most respected and played strategy games in the world and there literally is no "underdog" factor. If you're the better and more talented player you will win. For a Grandmaster elo in Chess, a genius IQ is basically required.
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
That is patently false. Most grandmasters are no more intelligent than the average human being.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans.
We are talking about one on one strategy games. Where did soccer come from? That's not even comparing apples to oranges; that's comparing apples to cheeseburgers.
The concept of an uncertain outcome is appealing to viewers. I addressed the surprise aspect above. The best stories are ones where the ending is not easily predicted.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans.
We are talking about one on one strategy games. Where did soccer come from? That's not even comparing apples to oranges; that's comparing apples to cheeseburgers.
And one is a video game while the other is a board game. So it is still comparing apples and cheeseburgers.
First of all, SC2 (and SC, other RTS) has fog of war so you don't have perfect information. Just this alone makes it much more volatile. Games like poker are good example of this.
On January 12 2013 08:16 Laryleprakon wrote: tt Mvp
Hopefully we see w/e zerg nerf blizzard ends up with before GSL starts.
Well, they are talking above removing upgrades for infested terrans. That could be huge
It would definitely make mech play a bit better. And in low eco late games, it will make just having infestors throw out a bunch of infested terrans and getting back energy less effective.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans.
We are talking about one on one strategy games. Where did soccer come from? That's not even comparing apples to oranges; that's comparing apples to cheeseburgers.
And one is a video game while the other is a board game. So it is still comparing apples and cheeseburgers.
First of all, SC2 (and SC, other RTS) has fog of war so you don't have perfect information. Just this alone makes it much more volatile. Games like poker are good example of this.
This is true. Also, who the heck ever WATCH chess? It's like watching paint dry.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
Chess is probably the onf of the most respected and played strategy games in the world and there literally is no "underdog" factor. If you're the better and more talented player you will win. For a Grandmaster elo in Chess, a genius IQ is basically required.
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
That is patently false. Most grandmasters are no more intelligent than the average human being.
That is patently false. Most grandmasters are no more intelligent than the average human being. [/QUOTE]
This is so blatantly false I don't know where to begin.
IQ having no impact on your achievements in life is a horrible and false myth, along the lines of "apm doesn't matter."
Do you honestly believe the average IQ of chess Grandmasters is 100?
Kasparov, Fisher, Polgar all have IQ's above 170.
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lab/7378/iq.htm shows Bill Wall's findings during his studies of IQ and Chess-- they are astoundingly supportive of an extremely high positive correlation between IQ and Chess skill.
Hell, even looking at something simple as one's occupation:
we see that IQ plays a very important role. Not so in SC2, however. At least not yet, while the talent pool is still very small and the game is still filled with too many variables.
we see that IQ plays a very important role. Not so in SC2, however. At least not yet, while the talent pool is still very small and the game is still filled with too many variables.
Why are you still going on about Chess?
It is nothing like SC2 because the element of surprise does not factor in Chess, but it does in SC2. Hence scouting is an important part of SC2 but Chess does not require it.
The underdog factor is appealing to people. An unknown outcome increases dramatic tension and enjoyment for viewers, which is why people don't like spoilers of sports results or in stories.
Two fairly simple concepts. You don't need 170 IQ to understand both.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
The most popular sport in the world, football, is one where an underdog can beat a much more talented team. Happens all the time. It is part of the reason for it's popularity as it helps maintains the interest and optimism of fans.
We are talking about one on one strategy games. Where did soccer come from? That's not even comparing apples to oranges; that's comparing apples to cheeseburgers.
And one is a video game while the other is a board game. So it is still comparing apples and cheeseburgers.
First of all, SC2 (and SC, other RTS) has fog of war so you don't have perfect information. Just this alone makes it much more volatile. Games like poker are good example of this.
if the player map hacks then he has perfect vision, or if he has a friend that is observing. Both of these are are much harder to prevent in on line tournies
That's a shame about Mvp, but maybe people can give goswser a little credit since he beat Mvp, rather than crediting his last round's win to beating a slumping MMA.
Of course, it has been said that Mvp is taking it easy until HotS, but the winner of IEM Singapore is still favored in my mind.
On January 12 2013 08:07 Canucklehead wrote: People talk about goswser having prepared builds and sniping mvp, but when the skill difference is that great, sniping shouldn't be possible or even matter. Back in bw a foreigner could map hack against flash if he wanted to and he still wouldn't be able to beat him. It's just disappointing to see, which is why a lot of people have a problem with it.
And if his physical problems are as bad as the evidence suggests, the skill difference isn't great enough to matter.
You have any idea how many Korean Terrans Goswser has beaten? It's a lot more than just MVP.
But, all in all I agree with the guy you quoted.
Foreign vs Korean TvT and TvP are the only matchups you can predict with confidence anymore. Even if a player's skill is unrivaled by the other's-- Bomber vs Scarlett, Gumiho vs Vortix, Roro vs idra, or Grubby vs MC for example-- you can't blindly bet on the more skilled player like you could in BW.
better player wins 100% of the time is a bullshit theory that should NEVER EVER happen, the underdog factor is what makes games interesting, as both players have enough chances to win that it wont be a 1sided landslide
Chess is probably the onf of the most respected and played strategy games in the world and there literally is no "underdog" factor. If you're the better and more talented player you will win. For a Grandmaster elo in Chess, a genius IQ is basically required.
I don't understand. You like games where both players have a decent chance to win, despite skill or talent?
That is patently false. Most grandmasters are no more intelligent than the average human being.
This is so blatantly false I don't know where to begin.
IQ having no impact on your achievements in life is a horrible and false myth, along the lines of "apm doesn't matter."
Do you honestly believe the average IQ of chess Grandmasters is 100?
Kasparov, Fisher, Polgar all have IQ's above 170.
http://www.geocities.com/siliconvalley/lab/7378/iq.htm shows Bill Wall's findings during his studies of IQ and Chess-- they are astoundingly supportive of an extremely high positive correlation between IQ and Chess skill.
Hell, even looking at something simple as one's occupation:
we see that IQ plays a very important role. Not so in SC2, however. At least not yet, while the talent pool is still very small and the game is still filled with too many variables.
Bobby Fischer's IQ is allegedly 180 and 167 and 170, sources can't even agree on what it really was. The only source was the Stanford-Binet IQ he took at his high school, which was rumored to be 180. Kasparov's IQ is actually 135 when he was requested to take a test (which is slightly hilarious because it's lower than mine, yet I would never dare say I have the potential to surpass him in chess mastery). Ironically Judith Polgar was raised to play chess from childhood to prove that talent was irrelevant in the field, which only supports my point. Also you're using the highest performers for your point when multiple studies show that the correlation between IQ and performance drops drastically as you reach the very top.
Actually his findings prove the opposite: the correlation between IQ and chess suggests that chess helps increase cognitive functioning, not that people with innately high intelligence are better at chess than others.
And that graph proves what? That there is a correlation between "higher" occupations and higher IQ, which is what one would expect if cognitive ability could be influenced by everyday tasks?
On January 12 2013 13:05 Za7oX wrote: Not sure what to think about MVP losing 3-0. I;m gonna go watch the VOD now to see wth happened.
I didn't watch it but it's probably not worth your time. There's been no announcement that his wrists are getting any better which means they can only be getting worse, so I don't find it as an accomplishment that any other pro-gamer 3-0's him anymore. Some people just like to hype a foreigner beating one of the best koreans, even if the korean is hanging upside down with one hand tied behind his back.
On January 11 2013 12:36 aLt_F4tw wrote: Goswser mega upset would be great.
That was great.
What's more great is that you expected that to not happen with MVP's wrist. It's not an upset. Anyone with a brain was expecting it, especially in TvZ not to mention Goswser is a good player.
On January 11 2013 12:36 aLt_F4tw wrote: Goswser mega upset would be great.
That was great.
What's more great is that you expected that to not happen with MVP's wrist. It's not an upset. Anyone with a brain was expecting it, especially in TvZ not to mention Goswser is a good player.
Ah yes, anyone with a brain was expecting MVP to go out 0-3 to a foreigner, that's right.
Omfg the things you read in LR threads nowadays ..
On January 11 2013 12:36 aLt_F4tw wrote: Goswser mega upset would be great.
That was great.
What's more great is that you expected that to not happen with MVP's wrist. It's not an upset. Anyone with a brain was expecting it, especially in TvZ not to mention Goswser is a good player.
Ah yes, anyone with a brain was expecting MVP to go out 0-3 to a foreigner, that's right.
Omfg the things you read in LR threads nowadays ..
Lol... if you actually followed the players you would know. Stop acting like it's an upset.
EPT![[image loading]](http://ftp.ironsquid.tv/visual/chapter2/TL/TL%20IS2%20ro16day1.jpg)
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HerO - MarineKing 
viOLet - MC ![[image loading]](http://ironsquid.tv/data/img/season2/TLresults.png)
HerO <Ohana> 
MarineKing
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