2. Open Network Stream in VLC Player (under Media)
3. Click on the Network tab, paste the link and hit play. If you encounter an error keep tying to initialize the stream, it may take a few tries depending on when you try to connect. Also note that it is best to try to connect a few minutes before the broadcast to get a working and/or smooth stream.
4. Enjoy the awesomeness of Kim Carrier, Jun Yong Joon, and Um Jae Kyung. :D
Edit: As a DRG fan I was really worried about this because MC is obviously one of the best protoss atm and historically, the best ever. But even through his slump, DRG was still one of the best zergs as well and I'd say either him or NesTea are historically the best zergs ever, but during his slump, we saw a lot of really bad ZvP from him, including his code S series against MC. But now, DRG is looking a lot better and MC lost in Ro32 in Code S and lost in Code A too (to be fair, DRG could still lose in Code A as well)
I think it will be DRG is 6 games or MC in 7 games (because of Entombed as game 7.)
On October 16 2012 06:44 Irave wrote: I think I would rather watch a PvZ finals, but I think MC will likely win this. Though DRG is who my heart wants.
you would rather watch a pvz finals? famous last words :p
Let's all pray for PvZ final. I don't think that SC2 will survive another PvP. Even now OSL is not doing great and I don't want to know what will happen if the final is a Protoss mirror. So... Go DRG. Save us !
On October 16 2012 06:44 Irave wrote: I think I would rather watch a PvZ finals, but I think MC will likely win this. Though DRG is who my heart wants.
you would rather watch a pvz finals? famous last words :p
I'd rather watch PvP but I think DRG has a better shot at beating Rain. Although I think MC and DRG are fairly equal right now inthis matchup...
Well DRG is almost the only zerg I can currently cheer for so I want him to win. Should be a good series, hopefully it ends up putting DRG back on top.
Both PvP and PvZ suck to watch but maybe DRG can make this and the finals slightly interesting atleast.
On October 16 2012 08:50 Bagration wrote: Hmm, I wonder if history will repeat itself. MC beats DRG in another semifinal, then goes and loses in the finals in a PvP? :p
More like history repeats itself, DRG loses in a semi-finals and goes into another slump.
No way I can stay up for this, although I want to. I"ll catch the VOD when I can. I usually root for MC, but DRG v Rain would make a better final, IDK. Liquidbetted MC though.
Mind : DRG, Heart : MC. It's not just that I love MC (one of the less boring Protosses out there in game and the most entertaining player outside the game), it's also that I've always liked to root against DRG (although he's a good guy)
I dislike MC for his 2 base all in style of games. hopefully it gets to some cool macro games instead of nothing but pure macro for 8 to 10 mins, then a sudden win/lose situation
On October 16 2012 10:59 GTR wrote: With the current state of PvZ, I'm not too sure whether I'd want a PvZ final over PvP.
To be fair PvZ has almost always been a boring match up imo. Sigh either way I don't think the finals will be very entertaining but it would last longer with pvz at least
I think MC will take it and I want him to take it, but as a DRG fan I also want people to stop thinking of him as slumping so I'd like to see a recent result out of him.
Either way tonight I'll be happy and sad. And then super nervous when the finals come around because Rain is a scary creature currently. I will believe in either of these two regardless!
On October 16 2012 17:25 Midday wrote: do I have to subscribe to OSL to watch it live? I tried watching recent games that are saved on the channel and I couldn't without subscribing =/
I think whoever wins this, wins the whole thing. So much momentum willbe with them, and its not like MC does not have a ton of PvP games of Rain's to watch, whereas MC hasn't been playing that much PvP lately.
And DRG, well, all he has to do is be in the right mindset ;0
MC to take the semis in a nailbitingly close and exciting series to lead us into a battle for protoss rulership in what surely would be one of the most storied grand finals ever -- and in which every game is finished and dealt in 10 mins a'la the previous code s finals.
On October 16 2012 17:44 Arachne wrote: I think whoever wins this, wins the whole thing. So much momentum willbe with them, and its not like MC does not have a ton of PvP games of Rain's to watch, whereas MC hasn't been playing that much PvP lately.
And DRG, well, all he has to do is be in the right mindset ;0
Lots of PvP games from Rain indeed. But none of them where he looked beatable so I don't know if that will help MC :D.
Yeah if DRG can take this it might be the push he needs to get into the right state of mind to take it all. Either way the finals would be exciting. I like MC and DRG equally, but I'm cheering for DRG only because I don't want a PvP finals.
DRG Deity of Zerg, master of larva, destroyer of team leagues, From your Hive so high, Please, with all your mighty ZvX powers, Save us from another horrendous PvP finals, And grant us the epic ZvP, ESF vs KeSPA finals that SC2 deserves,
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
also fun fact. All of DRG's premier tournament wins have come with him defeating a Protoss in the finals.
Edit: I thought IEM was Major not premier, but it turns out I was wrong. He beat Fruitdealer in the IEM he won.
On October 16 2012 19:32 eviltomahawk wrote: DRG Deity of Zerg, master of larva, destroyer of team leagues, From your Hive so high, Please, with all your mighty ZvX powers, Save us from another horrendous PvP finals, And grant us the epic ZvP, ESF vs KeSPA finals that SC2 deserves,
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
also fun fact. All of DRG's premier tournament wins have come with him defeating a Protoss in the finals.
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
also fun fact. All of DRG's premier tournament wins have come with him defeating a Protoss in the finals.
Ah, yes. I especially remember when Genius tried going Carriers in a GSL finals.
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
also fun fact. All of DRG's premier tournament wins have come with him defeating a Protoss in the finals.
I would love to see DRG win this, but I can't not back rain atm.
On October 16 2012 19:31 Laryleprakon wrote: Gogo DRG, even tho I think Rain has this title either way.
Rain did say PvZ was his weakest matchup, and he's only been preparing for PvPs and PvTs lately. I can see DRG taking the OSL if he navigates his way past MC.
also fun fact. All of DRG's premier tournament wins have come with him defeating a Protoss in the finals.
DRG > Fruitdealer at IEM NYC?
yea youre right. I though IEM was major not premier.
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
On October 16 2012 19:32 eviltomahawk wrote: DRG Deity of Zerg, master of larva, destroyer of team leagues, From your Hive so high, Please, with all your mighty ZvX powers, Save us from another horrendous PvP finals, And grant us the epic ZvP, ESF vs KeSPA finals that SC2 deserves,
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
dunno I think It's pretty accurate for the NA players ;o
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
Well, looking up the results it appears Jaedong and BaBy beat him 2-0. Either slumping or those guys have catched up extremely much.
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
dunno I think It's pretty accurate for the NA players ;o
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
dunno I think It's pretty accurate for the NA players ;o
On October 16 2012 19:37 LittLeD wrote: OH boy this's gonna be freaking great. Tbh I'm hoping DRG can take it down. He's been kinda struggling lately (For being on his level).
They both have (well MC since last season's GSL)
MC has been doing alright in the MvP though, hasn't he?
honestly I wouldn't use MvP as a base to rank someone's current form
Well, looking up the results it appears Jaedong and BaBy beat him 2-0. Either slumping or those guys have catched up extremely much.
Jaedong practices with MC a lot from what they've said in intervviews and BaBy is extremely good aside from his slightly lacking macro.
I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
wrong thread. and terrible post as well honestly oO
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
wrong thread. and terrible post as well honestly oO
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
It's quite simple. The 24 Kespa players get the benefit of 12 easy matches against NA players. While the 6 non kespa koreans have 24 matches against kespa. (It's not round robin)
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
It's quite simple. The 24 Kespa players get the benefit of 12 easy matches against NA players. While the 6 non kespa koreans have 24 matches against kespa. (It's not round robin)
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
It's quite simple. The 24 Kespa players get the benefit of 12 easy matches against NA players. While the 6 non kespa koreans have 24 matches against kespa. (It's not round robin)
yeh it's a joke
And Idra and Sheth quit midway through the tourney.. for spectacular 3-45 records lol
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
It's quite simple. The 24 Kespa players get the benefit of 12 easy matches against NA players. While the 6 non kespa koreans have 24 matches against kespa. (It's not round robin)
The NA and EU players might have had a better winrate % if they didn't forfeit so much.
On October 16 2012 19:43 Dodgin wrote: I don't actually watch the MvP invitational but I feel like the system must be rigged for kespa players to look good if all the non kespa players have sub 50% winrate and a lot of them 30-40% while kespa players have like 90%
It's quite simple. The 24 Kespa players get the benefit of 12 easy matches against NA players. While the 6 non kespa koreans have 24 matches against kespa. (It's not round robin)
Weird not seeing some pre-hive attempt on this map. Letting broodlords and a spine wall get into the middle corridor through passive play seems... not a good idea.
On October 16 2012 19:56 sparklyresidue wrote: I was hoping DRG would do his patented 3 base Muta/ling/bane play and decide the game during the midgame.
Not a b of 1 dude.. I am sure he would do it a few games later. Even zergs hate going infestor bl all the time yo
With most if not all other Protoss players incorporating prism/proxy pylon harass and multitasking in all matchups, I somehow get bored by MC's turtling macro style. And to think that I used to like his macro style. =))
On October 16 2012 19:58 Kommander wrote: With most if not all other Protoss players incorporating prism/proxy pylon harass and multitasking in all matchups, I somehow get bored by MC's turtling macro style. And to think that I used to like his macro style. =))
On October 16 2012 19:58 CikaZombi wrote: This is like that looney toons cartoon when they just draw bigger and bigger guns and point them at each other for like 5 minutes xD
mini plays Curious tomorrow and he claims to have an answer to late game PvZ picking small fights. we'll see. he's been awesome taking down Naniwa and Flash.
On October 16 2012 20:00 stephenrau wrote: mini plays Curious tomorrow and he claims to have an answer to late game PvZ picking small fights. we'll see. he's been awesome taking down Naniwa and Flash.
Protoss vs Curious usually ends in tears for me, if Mini will be able to put a stop to that tomorrow i'll be a fan 4 laif. I already love his overall "don't give a shit" attitude so i really hope he'll be able to make it happen.
That was the first time in recent memory that I have seen a Protoss actually push back that Broodlord Infestor Corruptor army. MC...is just being impressive. He might not win, but I sure as hell would like him to.
On October 16 2012 20:00 stephenrau wrote: mini plays Curious tomorrow and he claims to have an answer to late game PvZ picking small fights. we'll see. he's been awesome taking down Naniwa and Flash.
Protoss vs Curious usually ends in tears for me, if Mini will be able to put a stop to that tomorrow i'll be a fan 4 laif. I already love his overall "don't give a shit" attitude so i really hope he'll be able to make it happen.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
On October 16 2012 19:59 Pey wrote: This is why I cannot wait for Heart of the Swarm. Hopefully it will do to SC2 what BW and TFT did to SC and War3.
Unfortunately hots doesn't fix pvz imo with protoss not really getting any units to work with this. MC mentions in his interview tempests seem to be an attempted fix, but dont really solve the issue... but that's another discussion entirely heh.
Gogol mc! Somehow win with carriers... Not that it's possible without a colossal stuff up by zerg
On October 16 2012 20:00 stephenrau wrote: mini plays Curious tomorrow and he claims to have an answer to late game PvZ picking small fights. we'll see. he's been awesome taking down Naniwa and Flash.
Protoss vs Curious usually ends in tears for me, if Mini will be able to put a stop to that tomorrow i'll be a fan 4 laif. I already love his overall "don't give a shit" attitude so i really hope he'll be able to make it happen.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
we've had several games like this already, but people don't remember it so well due to PTSD
On October 16 2012 20:04 murphs wrote: Do blizzard not watch SC2 tournaments?
I ask because if I were a blizzard dev and I saw the state of PvZ I would freak out put out an emergency patch.
Well they're starting to listen. So I have about 10% hope that they'll do something. They did say that they'll start balancing the current units once they more or less finish balancing the new HotS units.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
On October 16 2012 20:04 murphs wrote: Do blizzard not watch SC2 tournaments?
I ask because if I were a blizzard dev and I saw the state of PvZ I would freak out put out an emergency patch.
Well they're starting to listen. So I have about 10% hope that they'll do something. They did say that they'll start balancing the current units once they more or less finish balancing the new HotS units.
Wasn't that in reference to HOTS, balancing the new Hots units then the current Wol ones in the Beta.
On October 16 2012 20:04 murphs wrote: Do blizzard not watch SC2 tournaments?
I ask because if I were a blizzard dev and I saw the state of PvZ I would freak out put out an emergency patch.
Well they're starting to listen. So I have about 10% hope that they'll do something. They did say that they'll start balancing the current units once they more or less finish balancing the new HotS units.
Wasn't that in reference to HOTS, balancing the new Hots units then the current Wol ones in the Beta.
Yeah that's what I meant lol. WoL is practically a lost cause.
On October 16 2012 20:07 Dodgin wrote: MC is just throwing away minerals on zealots to kill buildings and do minimal damage, drg cleans it up using energy.
I know where this is going.
he only had minerals...
you didnt want him to make cannons against broodlords, right?
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
have you seen the last 50 PvZs?
protoss can't remax as well as zerg, so the only way you can really take down a bl/infestor/corruptor army is if you COMPLETELY demolish it handily
even if you trade unit per unit, zerg can remax easier because of race mechanics
Was there anything MC could have done after it went to lategame? Or is protoss really just out of options there, because that's certainly what it seemed like for MC despite how well he played a lot of the time.
On October 16 2012 20:08 FuzzyJAM wrote: Why did none of the Corruptors die? What the heck?
Corruptors spread a lot quicker than Broodlords, you have a more limited time to target them coming out of the toilet, and MC didn't target them with the Archons. The archons came out of the vortex and just started splashing on broodlings in every direction instead of focusing down on the middle of the corruptor pack.
Beginning to understand how Daybreak is bad for P during late-game PvZ. Because of the way the map is, you can't take advantage of a more mobile Toss army.
On October 16 2012 20:07 Dodgin wrote: MC is just throwing away minerals on zealots to kill buildings and do minimal damage, drg cleans it up using energy.
I know where this is going.
he only had minerals...
you didnt want him to make cannons against broodlords, right?
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
have you seen the last 50 PvZs?
no, not all, but wcs asia had top 4 as all protoss. dont whine when the fact is that protoss has the upper hand against zerg atm with immortal sentry
On October 16 2012 20:08 FuzzyJAM wrote: Why did none of the Corruptors die? What the heck?
Corruptors spread a lot quicker than Broodlords, you have a more limited time to target them coming out of the toilet, and MC didn't target them with the Archons. The archons came out of the vortex and just started splashing on broodlings in every direction instead of focusing down on the middle of the corruptor pack.
this. movement speed factors into how fast they spread also. *air*
On October 16 2012 20:09 Aerisky wrote: Sigh that one made me sad ;__;
Was there anything MC could have done after it went to lategame? Or is protoss really just out of options there, because that's certainly what it seemed like for MC despite how well he played a lot of the time.
Oh well, I believe! >_<
most Protoss would go to harassment based play. When I saw DRG overprepared for harassment and zealot run bys. I was lost on how MC could possibly win.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
That has been known for the last 100 PvZs lol.
MC cannot have the gas to remax like zerg can.
Based on my observations, the player who creates the most successful harassment is often the player to come over the top in the end. I have BabyKnight vs Ret and vs Vortix from the WCS Europe finals fresh in my memory, where we see BabyK doing several games with successful harassments and then being able to reinforce his army well enough when the end game battles occured. I'm sure there are many other good examples of this.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
A zerg late game nerf means a buff for mid game. People really need to think about how the wins are coming from z v p. Most are from infestor bl, because we can't end it in mid game.
On October 16 2012 20:11 Fluid wrote: Well there you have it, with perfect micro and unit composition from both players in late game pvz always bet on the zerg to win.
if both players are of even skill, i'd tend to agree.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
On October 16 2012 20:10 silent_owl wrote: Beginning to understand how Daybreak is bad for P during late-game PvZ. Because of the way the map is, you can't take advantage of a more mobile Toss army.
Exactly. Even if the 15 corruptor + 6 archon sequence was ridiculous. I think the map could also be blamed here, really difficult to take advantage of the slow Z lategame army.
i wish OSL had better observing. It's so annoying when you see stuff happening on the minimap but the observer needs 5 seconds to react to it. + healthbars would be really nice
On October 16 2012 20:12 Zaurus wrote: LOL! Late game PvZ is boring! I prefer 2 base immortal all in, cause Toss has a higher chance of winning!
Yeah, when one race's highest chance of winning against another race is a 2 base all in, then you know there's something fundamentally flawed with the match up.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
have you seen the last 50 PvZs?
no, not all, but wcs asia had top 4 as all protoss. dont whine when the fact is that protoss has the upper hand against zerg atm with immortal sentry
WCS asia, with high tiered zerg players such as Ian AK Sen Slam and Fly...( no offence)
right, those players can definitely take on hero parting squirtle rain and seed
lol....this isn't even an argument
and LOL you're saying protoss is stronger than zerg just because of one 2 base all in
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
have you seen the last 50 PvZs?
no, not all, but wcs asia had top 4 as all protoss. dont whine when the fact is that protoss has the upper hand against zerg atm with immortal sentry
WCS asia, with high tiered zerg players such as Ian AK Sen Slam and Fly...( no offence)
right, those players can definitely take on hero parting squirtle rain and seed
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
PvZ is only dissapointing and frustrating in late game , always ends same way no matter what...MS is not a counter for gglords/infest/corr . So atm is all in or gg
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
honestly MC and DRG are pretty meh as players chosen to face the ultimate kespa player lol..... sad that theres no true TOPPPPPPPPPPPPP tier players like MVP or taeja to go for the ultimate finals
On October 16 2012 20:14 Random_0 wrote:But I have not seen a game yet where both Protoss late-game beats Zerg late-game when they start on basically equal footing.
There's a handful. Grubby had a couple at WCS Europe back to back. There just aren't any against the top tier zergs, because they don't die to mass zealot/dt warpins at all of their bases.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
On October 16 2012 20:14 Highways wrote: Wow crowd is empty.
Blizzard really needs to redesign the game with HotS. SC2 is pretty pathetic to watch atm.
I think that depends. PvT is cool when P is going for templar, ZvT is pretty nice and TvT is fun too. PvP is only fun when someone who's really good goes bink obs, ZvZ meeh it's not awful but not the best either. PvZ on the other hand is fucking disgusting.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
itd make protoss have a higher winrate, and they already have a higher winrate in pvz anyway since most games end with how imbalanced immortal sentry is
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
The only problem with the zerg late game is the infestor. But you can't change change the infestor without radically altering every ZvX matchup.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
That has been known for the last 100 PvZs lol.
MC cannot have the gas to remax like zerg can.
Based on my observations, the player who creates the most successful harassment is often the player to come over the top in the end. I have BabyKnight vs Ret and vs Vortix from the WCS Europe finals fresh in my memory, where we see BabyK doing several games with successful harassments and then being able to reinforce his army well enough when the end game battles occured. I'm sure there are many other good examples of this.
No, gsl hero vs leenock. Hero harassed successfully all game and leenock got crushed. Then all of a sudden when leenock had been on 3 bases for 25 minutes he made some brood lords and won an engagement and gg. Zerg is far too strong.
On October 16 2012 20:16 X3GoldDot wrote: honestly MC and DRG are pretty meh as players chosen to face the ultimate kespa player lol..... sad that theres no true TOPPPPPPPPPPPPP tier players like MVP or taeja to go for the ultimate finals
On October 16 2012 20:15 Dodgin wrote: It's time for MC to go back to his roots
2 base all in all day every day
gogogo XD
On October 16 2012 20:14 Highways wrote: Wow crowd is empty.
Blizzard really needs to redesign the game with HotS. SC2 is pretty pathetic to watch atm.
not going to rage at balance any more than how I've done it semi-indirectly, or criticize the game design, but this was actually surprising to me lol. I'd heard a lot of people around TL saying how SC2 was much less popular in Korea compared to several other esports (we all know which >.<), but I didn't really believe it....but then I see those empty seats and one of my friends korean gaming friends anecdotally mentioned how SC2 wasn't doing that well in korea etc.
I can hope though, I'm sure we will see some good changes.
On October 16 2012 20:14 Highways wrote: Wow crowd is empty.
Blizzard really needs to redesign the game with HotS. SC2 is pretty pathetic to watch atm.
I think that depends. PvT is cool when P is going for templar, ZvT is pretty nice and TvT is fun too. PvP is only fun when someone who's really good goes bink obs, ZvZ meeh it's not awful but not the best either. PvZ on the other hand is fucking disgusting.
I'll just sum up what this guy said, in other words, take out Colossus.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
itd make protoss have a higher winrate, and they already have a higher winrate in pvz anyway since most games end with how imbalanced immortal sentry is
QFT, toss seems to like to skim past this fact, immortal sentry is fucking difficult to hold especially on maps like cloud kingdom.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
and you can always do some more spine crawler tricks and you're back to where you started anyway
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
On October 16 2012 20:16 X3GoldDot wrote: honestly MC and DRG are pretty meh as players chosen to face the ultimate kespa player lol..... sad that theres no true TOPPPPPPPPPPPPP tier players like MVP or taeja to go for the ultimate finals
drg and mc are not top tier players? come on now
MC, definitly not with how shitty hes playing atm, losing to alive 2-0 and stuff, DRG is still pretty good but there are still better players. they are both top tier on theory but really, they arent doing as good as they were atm.
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
That has been known for the last 100 PvZs lol.
MC cannot have the gas to remax like zerg can.
Based on my observations, the player who creates the most successful harassment is often the player to come over the top in the end. I have BabyKnight vs Ret and vs Vortix from the WCS Europe finals fresh in my memory, where we see BabyK doing several games with successful harassments and then being able to reinforce his army well enough when the end game battles occured. I'm sure there are many other good examples of this.
No, gsl hero vs leenock. Hero harassed successfully all game and leenock got crushed. Then all of a sudden when leenock had been on 3 bases for 25 minutes he made some brood lords and won an engagement and gg. Zerg is far too strong.
Actually that's just wrong. Hero just engaged horribly and then choked after losing a big engagement.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
itd make protoss have a higher winrate, and they already have a higher winrate in pvz anyway since most games end with how imbalanced immortal sentry is
QFT, toss seems to like to skim past this fact, immortal sentry is fucking difficult to hold especially on maps like cloud kingdom.
People arguing that immortal/sentry is stronger than bl/infestor just makes no sense to me... I mean they're both strong but cmon >.<
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
then make sentries or immortals cost more supply, because like that it will even out and immortalsentry wont have a 80% winrate or something.
On October 16 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote: Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
Zergs wanting to go lategame doesn't mean that their midgame is weak. Hypothetically (with the source of numbers being my arse), if you had a 50% chance to win ending it midgame or 80% lategame, why would you ever play to win in the midgame?
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
have you seen the last 50 PvZs?
no, not all, but wcs asia had top 4 as all protoss. dont whine when the fact is that protoss has the upper hand against zerg atm with immortal sentry
WCS asia, with high tiered zerg players such as Ian AK Sen Slam and Fly...( no offence)
right, those players can definitely take on hero parting squirtle rain and seed
lol....this isn't even an argument
WCS Korea though?
The stats from WCS Korea in PvZ were as follows: (I didn't see most of these games, so it's possible a minority of them reached the end game)
On October 16 2012 20:02 morlakaix wrote: welp looks like carrier collossus mothership stalker archon still can't cost effectively beat ...broodlord infestor
=/
Coming to that conclusion based on this game is extremely stupid. You have to factor in which player has had the economical upperhand throughout the game, which DRG has had since the harassment at the start.
That has been known for the last 100 PvZs lol.
MC cannot have the gas to remax like zerg can.
Based on my observations, the player who creates the most successful harassment is often the player to come over the top in the end. I have BabyKnight vs Ret and vs Vortix from the WCS Europe finals fresh in my memory, where we see BabyK doing several games with successful harassments and then being able to reinforce his army well enough when the end game battles occured. I'm sure there are many other good examples of this.
No, gsl hero vs leenock. Hero harassed successfully all game and leenock got crushed. Then all of a sudden when leenock had been on 3 bases for 25 minutes he made some brood lords and won an engagement and gg. Zerg is far too strong.
Actually that's just wrong. Hero just engaged horribly and then choked after losing a big engagement.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
Making brood lords 6 supply or nerfing infestors wouldn't fuck late game it would just make it actually fair lol. Sif Zerg needs a mid game buff with how strong and free roaches are. Mutas are great too
On October 16 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote: Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
Zergs wanting to go lategame doesn't mean that their midgame is weak. Hypothetically (with the source of numbers being my arse), if you had a 50% chance to win ending it midgame or 80% lategame, why would you ever play to win in the midgame?
Please do play zerg before thinking we can end it at midgame when the most fucked up strategy toss has against zerg is the mid game immortal sentry all in.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
then make sentries or immortals cost more supply, because like that it will even out and immortalsentry wont have a 80% winrate or something.
...80%? Get real -.-
also how could you possibly nerf immortal/sentry like that without totally ruining it in all other scenarios?
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
On October 16 2012 20:16 X3GoldDot wrote: honestly MC and DRG are pretty meh as players chosen to face the ultimate kespa player lol..... sad that theres no true TOPPPPPPPPPPPPP tier players like MVP or taeja to go for the ultimate finals
Yeah if only a player who beat Taeja twice recently was in this series, no who could that be?
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
Making brood lords 6 supply or nerfing infestors wouldn't fuck late game it would just make it actually fair lol. Sif Zerg needs a mid game buff with how strong and free roaches are. Mutas are great too
if zerg is as good as you think why does protoss have a higher winrate against zerg then??, id trust david kim and dustin browder for balance more than someone like you tbh.
What is surprising to me about the crowd, is that GOM studio is always packed when important matches happen. I don't know why OSL is empty :-/ There is a public in Korea for sc2, not as high as bw or LoL, but there is one. But it looks like no one bothers to go to OSL studio.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
...that's the point, the army at full-size is too strong. And no, it's clearly not the swarm race and it clearly is like toss with big supplies and big fire power since broodlord/infestor is strong. How can you look at infestor/broodlord and say "swarm race" that "has to have numbers" lmao. When was the last time it actually mattered how carefully zerg balanced out their number of corruptors of broodlords? Just have a ton of each with a lot of infestors and you're good to go.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
What can you possibly be unable to accomplish with 25 BL's that you could do with 30? Also just make 20 spine crawler tricks or so when you're maxed and you'll never notice the difference.
On October 16 2012 20:16 X3GoldDot wrote: honestly MC and DRG are pretty meh as players chosen to face the ultimate kespa player lol..... sad that theres no true TOPPPPPPPPPPPPP tier players like MVP or taeja to go for the ultimate finals
drg and mc are not top tier players? come on now
MC, definitly not with how shitty hes playing atm, losing to alive 2-0 and stuff, DRG is still pretty good but there are still better players. they are both top tier on theory but really, they arent doing as good as they were atm.
MC is doing pretty well, other than his loss to alive ;o
DRG doesn't play in much right now but he looks pretty good too I think.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
The Broodlord isn't whats imbalanced about lategame Zerg. It's literally just the infestor.
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
im starting to believe you clearly dont understand how good immortal sentries are, which absolutely skews the balance of mid or late game
On October 16 2012 20:10 Qikz wrote: They need to increase the infestors supply by two or something to stop that happening. That was impossible for MC to win at that point. :\
I really hope HoTS beta fixes late game PvZ, I have a horrible feeling the OSL finals will be ruined by it otherwise.
If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
...that's the point, the army at full-size is too strong. And no, it's clearly not the swarm race and it clearly is like toss with big supplies and big fire power since broodlord/infestor is strong. How can you look at infestor/broodlord and say "swarm race" that "has to have numbers" lmao. When was the last time it actually mattered how carefully zerg balanced out their number of corruptors of broodlords? Just have a ton of each with a lot of infestors and you're good to go.
When the win rates is higher for zerg against toss and more then 0.9% against terran then we can say zerg is "too strong". Rather then the whining of random players, I am sure the win rates speak for themselves.
On October 16 2012 20:13 Megabuster123 wrote: [quote] If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
On October 16 2012 20:13 Megabuster123 wrote: [quote] If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
The Broodlord isn't whats imbalanced about lategame Zerg. It's literally just the infestor.
The broodlings kind of don't help, but toss can blink over them, it's just the infestor indeed.
Keep in mind that nerfing immortal/sentry would most likely make it far harder for P to take a third since that's also the composition that we generally use to defend in the midgame.
Design wise, i like where they are going with HotS with the Swarm Host and Viper; you can't really get them fast enough to bust a third (at least not as fast as with a roach max), but they are still a midgame unit. Now it would be nice if they also made Hive into something you can use to finish off someone when you are ahead, rather than the thing to rush for to win games.
On October 16 2012 20:13 Megabuster123 wrote: [quote] If they did that zergs would only be winning zvz..>_>
Besides, at that point in the late game DRG would've won with half the infestors he had. The problem with PvZ is that you can't kill the deathball without an Overpowered infestor, and protoss can't do anything except deathball.
I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
The Broodlord isn't whats imbalanced about lategame Zerg. It's literally just the infestor.
The infestor is the patty in the jurg-imba burger.
It not only provides the natural transition into broodlords, it's also the correct response to everything the protoss can do.
On October 16 2012 20:14 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
On October 16 2012 20:14 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
On October 16 2012 20:14 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] I reiterate my point, I am cool with a late game zerg nerf but we MUST have a mid game buff for that or we are just fucked.
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
The Broodlord isn't whats imbalanced about lategame Zerg. It's literally just the infestor.
The broodlings kind of don't help, but toss can blink over them, it's just the infestor indeed.
just bring back guardians, 20 BL's spawning free units on the ground that makes it impossible to attack them with a ground army is not fun.
On October 16 2012 20:15 stephenrau wrote: [quote]
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
Sorry hax but I have been here long enough to know that you always say zerg is op even when we have fuck up win rates like now. You need to stop being delusional and just accept you can't play.
On October 16 2012 20:15 stephenrau wrote: [quote]
I think Broodlords at 5 supply would be fair.
And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
On October 16 2012 20:22 Gevna wrote: What is surprising to me about the crowd, is that GOM studio is always packed when important matches happen. I don't know why OSL is empty :-/ There is a public in Korea for sc2, not as high as bw or LoL, but there is one. But it looks like no one bothers to go to OSL studio.
Because I think in Korea, GSL is still considered the top SC2 tournament.
They whined about the Infestor until it got nerfed, then it stopped for a while and the Muta whine began, until Protoss got a hard hard Muta counter which they didn't even need. Now they beat Mutas without ever using the upgrade or making Phoenixes, and the complaints have stopped, and they're back onto nerfing the Infestor some more. It never ends....
On October 16 2012 20:27 sitromit wrote: Jesus, when will this Zerg balance whine stop?
They whined about the Infestor until it got nerfed, then it stopped for a while and the Muta whine began, until Protoss got a hard hard Muta counter which they didn't even need. Now they beat Mutas without ever using the upgrade or making Phoenixes, and the complaints have stopped, and they're back onto nerfing the Infestor some more. It never ends....
terrans and protosses want the game to go back to 60% winrates era, like open seasons.
On October 16 2012 20:15 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
On October 16 2012 20:15 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] And a mid game buff? What would you suggest?
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
Sorry hax but I have been here long enough to know that you always say zerg is op even when we have fuck up win rates like now. You need to stop being delusional and just accept you can't play.
On October 16 2012 20:27 sitromit wrote: Jesus, when will this Zerg balance whine stop?
They whined about the Infestor until it got nerfed, then it stopped for a while and the Muta whine began, until Protoss got a hard hard Muta counter which they didn't even need. Now they beat Mutas without ever using the upgrade or making Phoenixes, and the complaints have stopped, and they're back onto nerfing the Infestor some more. It never ends....
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
you should stop, this thread is becoming terrible.
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
Sorry hax but I have been here long enough to know that you always say zerg is op even when we have fuck up win rates like now. You need to stop being delusional and just accept you can't play.
"I have been here long enough"
join date: May 2012
LOL
lol? 5 months and he has been whining zerg is op in every thread. Is that not long enough? fool.
Why would raising supply for broodlords require a mid-game buff? Lol...colossi are 6, and I'd much rather have a broodlord over a colossus.
Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
Lol okay, Terran player complaining about Pvz. Seems legit
On October 16 2012 20:24 X3GoldDot wrote: if zergs were really as op as ppl would think, why is this season's GSL the most balanced of all??
Dont let the terrans get to you my friend.
i literally hate basically non pro level terran players atm, they are the sole reason of bad LR threads.
zerg qq was so much worse than this.
it was worse, but there shouldnt be qq in the first place, especially in this period of games, with GSL having basically the best balance of player races every round.
On October 16 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
Lol okay, Terran player complaining about Pvz. Seems legit
Its the enemy of my enemy is my friend syndrome. You play better against toss then zerg hence you complain about zerg.
Anyway I received a warning so I am going to stop now. Have a nice day.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
Lol okay, Terran player complaining about Pvz. Seems legit
Its the enemy of my enemy is my friend syndrome. You play better against toss then zerg hence you complain about zerg.
didn't even have to go to lategame this time, maybe MC was anticipating something else like this and got owned by the roach ling muta comp and stuff. trapped by his own ffs though, good move by drg
On October 16 2012 20:20 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] 5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
And I play terran and toss and they are both a move. Troll.
Did you just say Terran was amove L O L
Caught you mr terran who says he play random. You guys are so predictable with the "I play random but x race is easy." stuff
Lol okay, Terran player complaining about Pvz. Seems legit
Its the enemy of my enemy is my friend syndrome. You play better against toss then zerg hence you complain about zerg.
Or I play random. You know either one...
I repeat, I am not going to get banned because of you. Please stop and lets both enjoy the games.
On October 16 2012 20:16 ImNightmare wrote: [quote] Because a late game nerfs needs a mid game buff. How many times must we say that? Zerg wins in z v p comes mostly from late game. Fuck our late game and we need a better mid game. And please, everyone would agree colossus is so much better then a broodlord.
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
Sorry hax but I have been here long enough to know that you always say zerg is op even when we have fuck up win rates like now. You need to stop being delusional and just accept you can't play.
"I have been here long enough"
join date: May 2012
LOL
lol? 5 months and he has been whining zerg is op in every thread. Is that not long enough? fool.
Correction, the only times I have something to say about zerg is when I'm arguing with you, because more than anything I'm fighting for truth and your claims are just simply wrong. That's all there is to it.
The only thing I've ever thought was straight-up imbalanced post-beta was 1/1/1 during it's peak. PvZ is just a generally poorly designed matchup, which is something most people agree on. That's got nothing to do with balance alright? Just awkward game design, and there is no good solution to it, hence why people keep discussing it since someone one day might come up with something smart for once.
That is all. Now enough of this, got some OSL to watch, gogo MC
On October 16 2012 20:31 TommyP wrote: DRG is soooo sexy.
Also Zerg wins "Zerg imba"
Protoss wins on immortal sentry all-in. "Wow great build"
Lol, there are PLENTY of zergs tears when they get 2 base all-in...
yes there are, but it doesnt come close to when a zerg plays well all game and gets to the late game and wins with brood lord infestor.
Trust me, it is the same. It is just that the BL/infestor games drags out longer so the number of post is greater. It is the same amount of posters complaining.
by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
On October 16 2012 20:31 TommyP wrote: DRG is soooo sexy.
Also Zerg wins "Zerg imba"
Protoss wins on immortal sentry all-in. "Wow great build"
Lol, there are PLENTY of zergs tears when they get 2 base all-in...
yes there are, but it doesnt come close to when a zerg plays well all game and gets to the late game and wins with brood lord infestor.
Trust me, it is the same.
when a zerg wins late game, terran and protoss whine, when a zerg loses mid game, zergs whine. The quality of whine is same but the amount is not. Anyway what does this accomplish, nothing good but acknowledging that qqing is just ruining everyones LR life
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Well curious is probably the worst hive-turtler out there and he managed to beat him back during WCS korea.
Making BLs cost more supply doesn't solve anything besides making the ultimate deathball weaker. We will see even more turtling due to ability to spread army thin.
If anything, we should make BLs more expensive but cost less supply instead. Force zerg to move out to fight for additional bases, but give them a larger army to defend a wider area or use them for aggression. More expensive = less remax for split maps situation.
Even so that might be useless. Zergs can just switch into a heavier infestor composition, all you need is just 10+ BLs support. Changing BLs stats might chance TvZ dynamics too. PvZ is just hopeless at this point.
On October 16 2012 20:35 ImNightmare wrote: Is this a best of 5?
Bo7
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
If there's one thing I've learned this season it's that Rain can beat anyone and everything
you mean, how many times must you say it without making any sense? Why would there be a mid-game buff for a SUPPLY CHANGE for a unit so that you can have less of it, since it's clearly a problem? That has no effect on anything instead of making the overpowered late-game more manageable.
5 supply means less broodlords. Less broodlords means less of a army. You seem to think supply is a small problem but zerg is the swarm race. We aren't like toss with big supplies but equally big fire power. We are weak unless we have the numbers. You don't make sense because you think zerg is op, I think z v p needs a redesign for both races to have options in every stage of the game. big difference.
Less brood lords means more balance :D
I am sorry but I am really not interested in discussing with a player who thinks his losses comes from imbalance instead of admitting he just suck. Good day to you sir.
I play random, and Zerg is freaking easy, maybe you shouldn't assume things
I play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :s
look I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional
Sorry hax but I have been here long enough to know that you always say zerg is op even when we have fuck up win rates like now. You need to stop being delusional and just accept you can't play.
"I have been here long enough"
join date: May 2012
LOL
lol? 5 months and he has been whining zerg is op in every thread. Is that not long enough? fool.
Correction, the only times I have something to say about zerg is when I'm arguing with you, because more than anything I'm fighting for truth and your claims are just simply wrong. That's all there is to it.
The only thing I've ever thought was straight-up imbalanced post-beta was 1/1/1 during it's peak. PvZ is just a generally poorly designed matchup, which is something most people agree on. That's got nothing to do with balance alright? Just awkward game design, and there is no good solution to it, hence why people keep discussing it since someone one day might come up with something smart for once.
That is all. Now enough of this, got some OSL to watch, gogo MC
And I agree with you, design flaw is fucked up. Maybe I misunderstood your quote " play toss and I do better in ZvP than PvZ at the same mmr :slook I don't like to say this and that is imbalanced, but there's no reason to be delusional", but if you meant its a design flaw then yes I agree, I would much prefer a better mid game with a lousier late game. Its just not fun playing zerg and having to go infestor brood lord.
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Indeed it looks like DRG figured out this. So the finals will be very interesting to see how Rain adapts to this super safe turtle style.
On October 16 2012 20:32 Lysanias wrote: Happy to see DRG does make those muta's work well after that Hyun game early on in code A.
I missed the Hyun game in Code A, what happened?
He went _really_ quick 5 base on Entombed (like 8 minutes), grabbed gases at 4th and 5th and just mass muta. Proceeded to take base 6-7, and kept harassing and attackign with the biiiiig muta ball.
Vampire had no templar, just +3 stalkers. However, as Vampire moved out, HyuN decided to engage with just pure +2 mutalisk. He proceeds to kinda lose that fight, then try to defend instead of base trade. Vampire has 2 colossi so lings are useless and HyuN has to gg.
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Well curious is probably the worst hive-turtler out there and he managed to beat him back during WCS korea.
That and his OSL round-robin game against DRG in the group stages are the only PvZ's I can remember of Rain's, so if DRG wins it'll be interesting to see where his PvZ is at.
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Well curious is probably the worst hive-turtler out there and he managed to beat him back during WCS korea.
lol, i like that wolfdor pretty much remembers curious as a master hive turtler because of his series against creator in gsl
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
DRG isnt a hive turtler. Did you see the last two games?
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Well curious is probably the worst hive-turtler out there and he managed to beat him back during WCS korea.
but Creator knocked out Rain in WCS Korea and Curious knocked out Creator in WCS Asia, thus Curious ought to have beaten Rain 4-0
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
Drg basically won in the mid game at the last match -_-. His mutas were out of control, he just couldn't end it because we need siege breakers to end a game. That was no turtle zerg but a aggressive swarm zerg.
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
Well curious is probably the worst hive-turtler out there and he managed to beat him back during WCS korea.
lol, i like that wolfdor pretty much remembers curious as a master hive turtler because of his series against creator in gsl
Curious knows his timings and knows how to engage efficiently
On October 16 2012 20:36 Waxangel wrote: by the way, when's the last time Rain had to play a good hive-turtler? I'm wondering how he'd fair against DRG, if DRG can survive the three base timings
I dunno, is Jaedong a hive-turtler? I really havn't seen many of his games. Either way, Rain smacked him 2-0 at the WCS South Korea Nationals, as well as curious, Leenock and horror.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
The first match Rain played in Korea WCS Curious used gimmicky strats and threw him off. After that Rain improved immensely. He had awesome muta defense against Leenock game 1 and built up a huge lead, playing the deny bases game. Tremendous army control as expected, I don't think turtling will be that dangerous to him. During MLG MvP he looked awesome against Vibe. After Korea WCS, everyone thought Rain was great at PvZ, after crushing Taeja everyone realized he was great at PvT, and then after beating Parting, he was complete.
maybe MC can show us a 0-3 comeback like Sun did (at least I think that was OSL, might've been GSL though, can't remember since he's in so many @_@) .__.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
I feel more comfortable with aggression actually. Played bw and it just felt more right as zerg to be a angry race.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
People seem to see what they want to see.
Clearly a Protoss should win after losing his main and natural Nexus, being behind 2-3 bases for 10 minutes. be 50 supply down, send his immortals away from the main army*, and be behind in tech. Clearly a matter of balance!
On October 16 2012 20:44 Aerisky wrote: maybe MC can show us a 0-3 comeback like Sun did (at least I think that was OSL, might've been GSL though, can't remember since he's in so many @_@) .__.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
Life says hi
tell life to get back to practicing for this saturday
Huh, this tutorial segment about the Infestor on the Korean stream is pretty cool. I've seen a lot of their other segments about the other units in SC2, but this one about the Infestor is the most interesting so far.
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
Life says hi
tell life to get back to practicing for this saturday
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
The way Symbol played against Seed, THAT's hive turtling. Don't think anyone can beat that.
God watching those games was a traumatic experience.
Such a sad sad difference when compared to their series from last season. That series was some of the sickest PvZ i've ever seen, but no zerg seems to be comfortable playing that style anymore because bludlud impestor is so much more forgiving.
Life says hi
tell life to get back to practicing for this saturday
On October 16 2012 20:44 Aerisky wrote: maybe MC can show us a 0-3 comeback like Sun did (at least I think that was OSL, might've been GSL though, can't remember since he's in so many @_@) .__.
a 4-0 comeback, even!
wait but if he's down 0-4 then he loses ;_; (unless that's the joke, in which case T_T)
On October 16 2012 20:37 FuzzyJAM wrote: Don't care about the balance, but fuck - PvZ is BORING. :[
Protoss wins by all ins or Zerg wins by ridiculous turtling.
Last game is not turtling zerg..
You're right, I over simplified to the point of meaningless. A more accurate analysis would be that MC was going for a two base all in because he knows he can't win late game, DRG sniffing it out and MC playing from behind in the mid game with no ability to try to take risks to get into an advantageous situation later because late game is impossible. The whole MU is just stupid right now.
Game one I missed the start of, so maybe that was better before the final 10 minutes, which I did catch.
next one is a must-win for MC. if he goes down 0-3, I honestly can't see him coming back. MC is fantastic at playing from ahead in a series but not very good at coming back at all. though that's sort of an unfair statement lol
On October 16 2012 20:36 Le Cheque Zo wrote: lol why are people still talking about balance?
yea stupid people are stupid.
Really, you can't fathom why people constantly talk about balance? In a game where balance tuning is directly made as a result of how games play out, you don't see the relationship?
It might not be fun to read, it might be tiresome, but its quite evident why it happens.
On October 16 2012 20:48 stephenrau wrote: OK now I remember, during MLG, Rain had PERFECT greater spire snipes. Like timed perfectly before broodlords would morph.
PvZ is sooooooooo daaaaaaamn booooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooriiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiinnnnnnnnnnnnnggggggggggggg
On October 16 2012 20:54 MeLo wrote: Is it fair to say that the only way for Protoss to stop the Broodlord-Infestor composition is to snipe the Greater Spire and not let them max on that?
Leaving the game is another effective way. Just kidding lol
moletrap: MC doesn't have good mechanics and macro me: hmm, not the best i guess moletrap: MC has relatively bad builds me: builds are actually among his biggest strength, but sometimes he pulls out wonky stuff moletrap: he has bad forcefields me: why did i even think about what moletrap says in the first place
why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
Puzzles me too man.. sentries are spell casters, you don't have to use them right at that moment. :/
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
It's to keep zergs guessing. If they go home they rule out every possibility for a follow up attack which allows zergs to drone up hard. If they stay active on the map the zerg can't 100% say that the push is over, and thus is forced to make more units. The making more units can of course backfire on the protoss when zerg musters the brainpower to actually Use those extra units though :p
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
You answered your own question. If you go home it's 2 base and little tech, and the zerg's free to take a 4th, get out infestors and never let you expand, then you die horribly.
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
You answered your own question. If you go home it's 2 base and little tech, and the zerg's free to take a 4th, get out infestors and never let you expand, then you die horribly.
But if you go home and take your 3rd, you can use the sentries you have been saving to defend, no?
On October 16 2012 21:01 Weirdkid wrote: I hope MC wins some. I want to see the ceremonies his girlfriend designed lol
I think he's not going to do the ceremony unless he pulls a reverse all-kill. Would look silly doing a ceremony if you win one game when you're down 3.
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
Well for 1 they are quite behind. And second a lot of time thanks to the warp mechanic and warpgate you actually can still push and win, MC did it previous GSL to DRG even.
On October 16 2012 21:01 Weirdkid wrote: I hope MC wins some. I want to see the ceremonies his girlfriend designed lol
I think he's not going to do the ceremony unless he pulls a reverse all-kill. Would look silly doing a ceremony if you win one game when you're down 3.
Oh that's true too lolol. Ah well. Time for a reverse all-kill then
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
You answered your own question. If you go home it's 2 base and little tech, and the zerg's free to take a 4th, get out infestors and never let you expand, then you die horribly.
But if you go home and take your 3rd, you can use the sentries you have been saving to defend, no?
You cut a ton of probes and delay tech and upgrades a lot so even if you take a third you aren't in a good position.
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
You answered your own question. If you go home it's 2 base and little tech, and the zerg's free to take a 4th, get out infestors and never let you expand, then you die horribly.
But if you go home and take your 3rd, you can use the sentries you have been saving to defend, no?
That's what I would think, with those many force fields, at a choke you could hold long enough to get splash out.
On October 16 2012 21:00 wangstra wrote: why does toss never just go home when they've burned so much? it's an all in but why don't many choose to hold at home rather in the middle of the map?
You answered your own question. If you go home it's 2 base and little tech, and the zerg's free to take a 4th, get out infestors and never let you expand, then you die horribly.
But if you go home and take your 3rd, you can use the sentries you have been saving to defend, no?
No. You cut probes at 44. Zerg hits 70 drones 17 seconds after you back off, and has a bunch of roaches almost certainly with speed, and infestor tech about to start if it hasn't already. Roaches get rallied to outside your base. Your third doesn't happen, or at least not in a manner that can survive the zerg splitting his roaches in half and a-moving them at your nat+third.
On October 16 2012 21:03 stephenrau wrote: Actually I think high level PvP is better than PvZ to spectate. WCS Asia was nice.
Rain vs Parting actually broke my brain. That was so good.
Parting played so damn well and yet he is now 1-5 vs Rain. Hero is 0-5. And spoiler, but no ones watching, Rain dismantled MC 2-0 online MLG MvP tourney.
On October 16 2012 21:10 Teoita wrote: Wait i'm watching the korean stream...did Moletrap say that?
Moletrap said MC won spring arena 1 (or 2 dunno anymore) and the previous GSL...
No. He was talking about the previous series between MC and DRG, and was listing the tournaments in which either MC or DRG had won a series against the other. He was not talking about tournament wins.
On October 16 2012 21:03 stephenrau wrote: Actually I think high level PvP is better than PvZ to spectate. WCS Asia was nice.
Rain vs Parting actually broke my brain. That was so good.
Parting played so damn well and yet he is now 1-5 vs Rain. Hero is 0-5. And spoiler, but no ones watching, Rain dismantled MC 2-0 online MLG MvP tourney.
On October 16 2012 21:20 mikedebo wrote: I don't even play SC2 and this is frustrating to watch lol
This was DRG giving MC a game as a gift. Can't think of any other reason why he would walk up that ramp having seen MCs army and knowing basically everything...
On October 16 2012 21:20 mikedebo wrote: I don't even play SC2 and this is frustrating to watch lol
This was DRG giving MC a game as a gift. Can't think of any other reason why he would walk up that ramp having seen MCs army and knowing basically everything...
Maybe you are right. Drg and all zergs hate this map. Like really really hate it. They hate it so much nestea does all ins on this map everytime.
On October 16 2012 21:20 mikedebo wrote: I don't even play SC2 and this is frustrating to watch lol
This was DRG giving MC a game as a gift. Can't think of any other reason why he would walk up that ramp having seen MCs army and knowing basically everything...
Maybe you are right. Drg and all zergs hate this map. Like really really hate it. They hate it so much nestea does all ins on this map everytime.
On October 16 2012 21:20 mikedebo wrote: I don't even play SC2 and this is frustrating to watch lol
This was DRG giving MC a game as a gift. Can't think of any other reason why he would walk up that ramp having seen MCs army and knowing basically everything...
Maybe you are right. Drg and all zergs hate this map. Like really really hate it. They hate it so much nestea does all ins on this map everytime.
he probably thought he could break the wall and go up before forcefields, but mc didnt go for the attack, he just waited
On October 16 2012 21:20 mikedebo wrote: I don't even play SC2 and this is frustrating to watch lol
This was DRG giving MC a game as a gift. Can't think of any other reason why he would walk up that ramp having seen MCs army and knowing basically everything...
Maybe you are right. Drg and all zergs hate this map. Like really really hate it. They hate it so much nestea does all ins on this map everytime.
eh entombed actually grew on me :p.
At least it's big. Dislike Antiga and Ohana more.
You play zerg and you like it!? Wtf.. I hate it a lot, its my number 1 hated map. Antiga is alright , allows for funny tactics
On October 16 2012 21:26 sparklyresidue wrote: What was the question to which DRG replied, "NO, NEVER, EVER!"? Too fast to read.
I sort of missed it too. Was something about his pros and cons I think and the coach made a smart ass comment about his cons and how they relate to his girlfriend.
On October 16 2012 21:26 sparklyresidue wrote: What was the question to which DRG replied, "NO, NEVER, EVER!"? Too fast to read.
It was a response to the previous question where he said '"If I hate something I give it no attention" and the guy asked "Does this apply to your gf too?"
God, Doa and Moletrap are deifnitely not mathexpert. It obviously is completely irrelvant whether you are up or down. Cheese to maximize your winning changes. Don't cheese because you can afford to lose a game.
On October 16 2012 21:38 Larkin wrote: Wow, you guys are acting like you've never seen women shitting on each other before. It's 2012, people.
Some of us are what society considers normal with our sexual preferences. I for one have never actively searched for women shitting on each other, nor will I ever. For curiosity or other reasons.
I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
I'm glad only one game was a turtley bl/infestor vs. vortex mess. I thought it was actually sort of a fun series to watch even if just because it picked up nicely.
On October 16 2012 21:49 ImNightmare wrote: ^ FUCK that scared me. Thought it was another scat picture
I've just stopped scrolling down the moment I see a picture in lr threads now, then I slowly scroll down until I can see if it's some nasty shit or if it's harmless.
LR trolls have made me change my reading habits ._.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
On October 16 2012 22:04 Weirdkid wrote: Did we get attacked again after the tournament was over? 0.o
I was wondering about this too. missed the whole thing, luckily. Can someone quickly tell how did the games go after match 2 on antiga? I had to get to work and missed the whole thing TT
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
The claim is that GSL has higher production than OSL.
"No." is your answer.
Then of course you go ahead and list a bunch of production decisions of how GSL is ahead of OSL.
But that does not matter, because of the fact that "OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE", even in SC2. You list the reasons for this as OSL being one of the oldest Brood War leagues, and also the most prestigious Brood War league. More empirical evidence also comes from By.Sun, aka Rain, not so long ago still a Brood War professional, saying in an interview he values the league he has been playing on the longest over the new league he was invited to.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
Has nothing to do with what he said... We get it, OSL is this big thing but that doesn't change the fact that the production was better on a restream of a BW OSL rather then their own English SC2 one.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
Pretty much sums it up my exact thoughts.
Then your thoughts are about a different subject...
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
I for one blame it on Dustin "The Rock" Browder's "terrible terrible damage" approach to things.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
day9 wont come to korea he and his brother split the world ^^ as he said often before doa is a great caster and moletrap is the face of OGN well i think hes better in LOL and they should find another one for SC2 as partner for DoA but again DOA ROCKS !
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
day9 wont come to korea he and his brother split the world ^^ as he said often before doa is a great caster and moletrap is the face of OGN well i think hes better in LOL and they should find another one for SC2 as partner for DoA but again DOA ROCKS !
I agree I love DOA he follows the scene. Moletrap... *sigh* man I really try not to hate him but he knows nothing about sc2 so can he please stop casting it? ALL watchers who take the time to watch OSL live or pay for VODs know more than him.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
On the Korean stream perhaps, but on the English one GSL>OSL in production, and that is partly to do with Casters, but other stuff is just generally better on GSL as well.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
Pretty much sums it up my exact thoughts.
Then your thoughts are about a different subject...
yes its somewhat about a different subject but what he said was true.... well let me elaborate since im at work and dont have much time im gonna try and shorten this up Gom takes great care of the foreign scene ever since classic's..(like mentioned on point 2/3) so yes the Foreign Broadcast is a hell of a lot better from GOM/GSL compaired to OSL..
on the OSL being every progamers dream hes right its like comparing cal-i and to cpl or cevo-p while cal-i was great everyone wanted to win cpl or cevo-p (from a counter-strike 1.6 / source perspective)
and yes on the point about By.Sun you could say its a little bias since hes a Kaspa player...
and last but not least the finals for both GSL and OSL will break records IMO since im pretty sure both will try to out do the other..
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
Pretty much sums it up my exact thoughts.
Then your thoughts are about a different subject...
yes its somewhat about a different subject but what he said was true.... well let me elaborate since im at work and dont have much time im gonna try and shorten this up Gom takes great care of the foreign scene ever since classic's..(like mentioned on point 2/3) so yes the Foreign Broadcast is a hell of a lot better from GOM/GSL compaired to OSL..
on the OSL being every progamers dream hes right its like comparing cal-i and to cpl or cevo-p while cal-i was great everyone wanted to win cpl or cevo-p (from a counter-strike 1.6 / source perspective)
and yes on the point about By.Sun you could say its a little bias since hes a Kaspa player...
and last but not least the finals for both GSL and OSL will break records IMO since im pretty sure both will try to out do the other..
That is all nice and well but that is completely different to what people mean. Lets give a personal example here shall we. This was the first time i could watch the English OSL stream without it constantly freezing every couple seconds. Let me repeat this so it extra rings, the second seimi finals (i tried watch the first and it felt like someone was pressing the pause button all the time) is the very first time i could watch it without to much troubles. The casters in general on GSL are more knowledgeable (saying MC has bad forcefields and bad builds is a prime example) Those are the issues people talking about. Not the prestige of the tournament itself.
i just finished reading the boss toss' interview thread and i was hoping he would win, and then i saw this thread i feel that mc is more consistent and have better chances going against rain.
On October 17 2012 00:44 bsdaemon wrote: i just finished reading the boss toss' interview thread and i was hoping he would win, and then i saw this thread i feel that mc is more consistent and have better chances going against rain.
I would say MC is "always potentially dangerous" rather than consistent. I feel like some days MC shows up and just has no fight in him at all, and other times he comes in and just roflstomps.
Then again, some people have argued that this perception is a result of his playstyle -- I suppose it's possible that if his style results in either winning or losing in a dramatic fashion, then consistent application of this style could still be giving me that impression
On the other hand, I feel like DRG has had a career composed of long arcs, in which he consistently got better or consistently got worse. Right now, he seems to be on a bit of an upswing. I don't think he'll show up to the finals and play any worse than he did today. (Hopefully he gives Rain a run for his money!!)
On October 16 2012 22:11 Salient wrote: The GSL has much higher production value IMO. OSL should hire Day9 and Husky to replace the current casters.
No.
OGN(host of OSL) is like the top broadcaster in Korea and definitely has equal or better production than GSL.
Reason why GSL is arguably better than OSL now is because
1.Highest skill level of play is still in GSL. 2.GSL(GOM) cares more about the foreign scene than OSL( Hiring Artosis and Tasteless for English Casting back in 2010 and giving foreign seeds to Code S,Code A and Up&Down) 3.Casters in OSL is subpar compared to GSL Casters.
GSL may be the highest skill-based tournament.
But OSL is like EVERY PROGAMER DREAM and DESIRE. Even in BW and even in SC2. (Being around since the beginning of BW and is the most prestigious league in BW) Ask the MVP,the MC the Nestea the DRG and all the eSF players and Kespa players. They all want to win OSL at least once.
By.Sun also said he values OSL over GSL in one of his interviews.
Pretty much sums it up my exact thoughts.
Then your thoughts are about a different subject...
yes its somewhat about a different subject but what he said was true.... well let me elaborate since im at work and dont have much time im gonna try and shorten this up Gom takes great care of the foreign scene ever since classic's..(like mentioned on point 2/3) so yes the Foreign Broadcast is a hell of a lot better from GOM/GSL compaired to OSL..
on the OSL being every progamers dream hes right its like comparing cal-i and to cpl or cevo-p while cal-i was great everyone wanted to win cpl or cevo-p (from a counter-strike 1.6 / source perspective)
and yes on the point about By.Sun you could say its a little bias since hes a Kaspa player...
and last but not least the finals for both GSL and OSL will break records IMO since im pretty sure both will try to out do the other..
That is all nice and well but that is completely different to what people mean. Lets give a personal example here shall we. This was the first time i could watch the English OSL stream without it constantly freezing every couple seconds. Let me repeat this so it extra rings, the second seimi finals (i tried watch the first and it felt like someone was pressing the pause button all the time) is the very first time i could watch it without to much troubles. The casters in general on GSL are more knowledgeable (saying MC has bad forcefields and bad builds is a prime example) Those are the issues people talking about. Not the prestige of the tournament itself.
I see what your saying and and you are completely right on the points you made. it does take some trail and error GOM was not perfect when they started having the stream freeze same as MLG anyone remember the black screen during what ever final it was(not trying to defend OSL since Im a huge GSL supporter) but yes they should have better streaming..
and we all know that the 2 casters for OSL are horrible I never liked either of them.(thats why GOM got ride of them maybe a public outcry like we did with some of the gom casters will get better ones in) and i know they addressed casting issues on SOTG before dont ask me what episode i believe it was somewhere in may 2012 where artosis made some very good points about how some casters are too negative and dont go into detail while the specific build failed due to what was scouted and so on...
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
I am happy to pay for a GSL subscription because of the high production value of the English language program. The casters for both Code S and Code A are amazing, the music is great, and they have cool extras like "how to say Archon in Korean."
I wouldn't pay for premium OSL because the OSL English language program is pretty awful. I had to mute the the OSL cast because the casters are really annoying.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
On October 17 2012 01:04 N.geNuity wrote: why would anyone ever watch english casters/stream when you have the OGN casters.
blows my mind, and I don't speak a word of korean
Cause the korean stream laggs for some people? I wish i could watch the korean stream but every time i tried i got freezes like once every 10sec. This is coming from someone with a 120mbit connection so i feel like i am just screwed cause of my location.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
Warpgate isnt going to leave. That means a completely new design
I only watched the first game but I think MC threw it away- not like he had it, I mean, I'm saying that he had beaten that army and had gained the time everyone desires to get the axslav-army. Instead he walked into an army that was like 20 corrupters, 30 fungals, 40 spines. That could have been one of the few times Protoss doesnt fall over at the stalker-mothership-archon-templar stage, even with 3 carriers, and possibly won. Poor decision making imo.
Now I just hope Rain will destroy DRG in the finals. Zerg has to be stopped. Anways, congratz to DRG, MC is a very inconsistent player with many strange (but sometimes very cool) decisions I think. And he got his revenge for GSL.
On October 17 2012 04:21 Bahajinbo wrote: Now I just hope Rain will destroy DRG in the finals. Zerg has to be stopped. Anways, congratz to DRG, MC is a very inconsistent player with many strange (but sometimes very cool) decisions I think. And he got his revenge for GSL.
On October 17 2012 04:21 Bahajinbo wrote: Now I just hope Rain will destroy DRG in the finals. Zerg has to be stopped. Anways, congratz to DRG, MC is a very inconsistent player with many strange (but sometimes very cool) decisions I think. And he got his revenge for GSL.
If DRG win: Bahajinbo curse
:D Don't take it too seriously. I'm pretty happy we don't see a PvP finals again.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
PvT is potentially the best only if you're toss, and I still know a high majority of Ps who strongly dislike PvT. I believe you're much of an exception on this one. The vast consensus on 'what's the best race to watch' is that T > Z > P. It's not you protoss' players fault, it's Blizzard's.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
TvZ is by far the best IMO, then TvT then ZvZ.
Agreed. Protoss is killing esports. It's terrible to watch any match-up involving Protoss. SC2 would be more popular if Protoss had some dynamic units.
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
TvZ is by far the best IMO, then TvT then ZvZ.
Agreed. Protoss is killing esports. It's terrible to watch any match-up involving Protoss. SC2 would be more popular if Protoss had some dynamic units.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
I have never seen anyone who likes pvt more than tvz, pvt has less action, multitasking, interesting engagements compared to any other terran matchup. Protoss games are boring because if you lose an engagement and the toss has even 25% of his army left, they can come over and roll you because they can reinforce on the battlefield as opposed to in their base. Protoss matchups are way more about engagements since defenders advantage is way too small. This is why builds considered standard in pvt or pvz matchups are considered super greedy in pvp.
edit: i'm not saying protoss is op, nor am i commenting on balance, I actually think zerg is the strongest race atm due to map changes and the patches.
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
TvZ is by far the best IMO, then TvT then ZvZ.
Agreed. Protoss is killing esports. It's terrible to watch any match-up involving Protoss. SC2 would be more popular if Protoss had some dynamic units.
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
TvZ is by far the best IMO, then TvT then ZvZ.
Agreed. Protoss is killing esports. It's terrible to watch any match-up involving Protoss. SC2 would be more popular if Protoss had some dynamic units.
It all comes down to warpgate. It's weird how such an idea got into the end product to be honest.
On October 17 2012 07:09 Tachion wrote: Why were all the games so downrated? Were they all broodlord/infestor turtles and 2 base timings?
no not at all. for ZvP they were about as good as it can get. Probably a mixture of MC bias (cant blame them, hes awesome) and people hating the match up in general or people who still think zerg is imba for some reason.
Poor Protoss getting so much hate these days High level PvT isn't actually a terrible matchup these days, been a lot of good games I've enjoyed there lately. PvZ is terrible granted, but that's not just an issue with Protoss but Zerg.
Anyway, Rain's PvZ looks reminiscent of the warp-prism centric styles of HerO and JYP and is the best PvZ style to watch in my view, and DRG is pretty fearsome so the final could see some good games
On October 17 2012 07:16 aZealot wrote: Meh, don't worry about it, Wombat. A lot of the hate is misdirected, wrong, or just stupid (and sometimes, all three).
Thankfully, Blizzard will ignore most of the "feedback".
Well, especially when people are claiming TvZ is comparable to how it was months ago. I also facepalm with PvP whining. There are issues with the matchup, but people complained that there were no macro games, and now we see long macro games it's 'oh boring war of the worlds'
Myself I preferred PvP before they completely neutered warpgate pressure builds, but I will accept I'm very in the minority on this one
No, you aren't the only one. Personally, I prefer PvP as a 1 base micro-fest. That said, the neutering of 4 Gate (at least at the highest levels) has meant the slow development of PvP into the range of builds and playstyles prevalent today.
On October 17 2012 07:16 aZealot wrote: Meh, don't worry about it, Wombat. A lot of the hate is misdirected, wrong, or just stupid (and sometimes, all three).
Thankfully, Blizzard will ignore most of the "feedback".
You seem to believe the complaints about PvX are isolated. It's actually a widely spread tendency. Then again you're a Protoss player.
I agree with the guys here who dislike PvX matchups. Only PvT is mostly tolerable these days, i have a big dislike of PvZ usually. If only BLord/Infestor had a good counter it would be a lot more exciting, although the allins of Protoss might need a small nerf too. PvP just isn't fun to watch most of the time. There have been a few good games for both PvZ and PvP though.
Not sure what happens with HotS but i hope it comes soon and i hope it changes much.
Still i'm happy DRG won because PvP is the least fun to watch of all matchups IMO.
On October 17 2012 17:46 HolydaKing wrote: I agree with the guys here who dislike PvX matchups. Only PvT is mostly tolerable these days, i have a big dislike of PvZ usually. If only BLord/Infestor had a good counter it would be a lot more exciting, although the allins of Protoss might need a small nerf too. PvP just isn't fun to watch most of the time. There have been a few good games for both PvZ and PvP though.
Not sure what happens with HotS but i hope it comes soon and i hope it changes much.
Still i'm happy DRG won because PvP is the least fun to watch of all matchups IMO.
Aye, but PvZ is as much an issue with how Zerg works and interacts with the Protoss race than a straight up problem with Protoss.
On October 17 2012 17:46 HolydaKing wrote: I agree with the guys here who dislike PvX matchups. Only PvT is mostly tolerable these days, i have a big dislike of PvZ usually. If only BLord/Infestor had a good counter it would be a lot more exciting, although the allins of Protoss might need a small nerf too. PvP just isn't fun to watch most of the time. There have been a few good games for both PvZ and PvP though.
Not sure what happens with HotS but i hope it comes soon and i hope it changes much.
Still i'm happy DRG won because PvP is the least fun to watch of all matchups IMO.
Aye, but PvZ is as much an issue with how Zerg works and interacts with the Protoss race than a straight up problem with Protoss.
Nah, Protoss is just a terribly designed race in SC2. It's now becoming more evident now that the match ups have stabilized.
On October 17 2012 17:46 HolydaKing wrote: I agree with the guys here who dislike PvX matchups. Only PvT is mostly tolerable these days, i have a big dislike of PvZ usually. If only BLord/Infestor had a good counter it would be a lot more exciting, although the allins of Protoss might need a small nerf too. PvP just isn't fun to watch most of the time. There have been a few good games for both PvZ and PvP though.
Not sure what happens with HotS but i hope it comes soon and i hope it changes much.
Still i'm happy DRG won because PvP is the least fun to watch of all matchups IMO.
Aye, but PvZ is as much an issue with how Zerg works and interacts with the Protoss race than a straight up problem with Protoss.
Nah, Protoss is just a terribly designed race in SC2. It's now becoming more evident now that the match ups have stabilized.
I would like to disagree. It has always been evident warp gate is a difficult mechanic to balance around. But there is simply no real answer for the late game Z from a Protoss perspective.
On October 16 2012 21:45 -y0shi- wrote: I guess Im angry cause Im a protoss fan but I could live with this result if the games wouldve been any good, but this was a waste of time, really bad games Game 1 was depressing...
whole set was depressing
PvZ is depressing. If I were Korean and had just transitionned from watching Brood War I'd be seriously pissed off at how shitty SC2 sometimes it.
It's not just PvZ. Any match up with P is just depressing to watch.
Very true my friend. Protoss is so wrongly designed it's actually killing the game from a spectator POV.
Yes, Protoss design makes for horrible spectating. Luckily, there is an expansion coming that hopefully address the glaring design flaws of P from a spectator POV. I hope Colossus, Sentry and Warpgates are removed when HotS is released.
It is not Protoss design which is ruining matches. It is Zerg design. Brood and infestor is boring as heck to watch and very hard to beat. PvT and PvP have improved hugely since the earlier days of the matchup.
pvp is still super boring compared to zvz tvz and tvt, while pvt is around the same as zvz, but worse than tvz and tvt. Protoss is a badly designed race because your entire army is centered around 2 or 3 units. Warpgate and forcefields are also super gimmicky and don't belong in an rts game, but the protoss race is balanced around them.
PvT is the best matchup in SC2 by far. TvZ is now blatantly predictable on both sides of the matchup. Terran goes hellion banshee into either bio or mech, and Zerg goes quick third into ling infestor. Terran still has a variety of early game options, and different ways to play out the midgame. Likewise with Protoss. Plus, it's impossible to watch Tvz without seeing Terran players everywhere shedding massive tears when a Zerg wins.
If you play Protoss, PvT is the best. If you don't, it's probably third worst (behind other toss match ups.) Terran only has a small window to do anything and only god mode TvPers can play in late game.
TvZ is by far the best IMO, then TvT then ZvZ.
Your comments on TvP balance are so terribly wrong it sickens me. Terran had a 3 percent win rate advantage in TvP in August. And I complied TvP results from each of the WCS continental finals(where Terran is all but gone) and Terran had a three percent win rate advantage there as well. Your just repeating the comments from the summer of PvT before all the complaining about Zerg. Pro terrains have for the most part adjusted the TvP metagame. TvP is most balanced and best matchup in SC2
On October 20 2012 13:28 Die4Ever wrote: MC vs Last is currently on, and no LR thread? Can anyone fill me in on what happened in game 1? I missed it cause I was so hyped about the GSL finals!
haha exact same for me, just realized this was on, gogo someone be a hero and make an LR thread!
On October 20 2012 13:28 Die4Ever wrote: MC vs Last is currently on, and no LR thread? Can anyone fill me in on what happened in game 1? I missed it cause I was so hyped about the GSL finals!
On October 20 2012 13:28 Die4Ever wrote: MC vs Last is currently on, and no LR thread? Can anyone fill me in on what happened in game 1? I missed it cause I was so hyped about the GSL finals!
MC was on the defensive for a while, i would say he was a bit ahead in eco cause he had his fourth a bit earlier but he was losing a bit more every fight mmm vs zealot/archon. I think he had no stalkers and that hurt him because he was just getting kited. Game got really in favor of Last when he dropped (MC had to pull his units off drop defense to help at the front since he needed everything he could) and Last just killed templar archives + the recently made robo. Then it was just zealots and some archons left over that got kited to death.
EPT
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MC vs. 
DongRaeGu![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/thumb/3/30/Writers_Icon.png/15px-Writers_Icon.png){kind=icon}
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OGN Stream | ![[image loading]](http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft/images2/0/0c/Vlc_ico.png)
VLC Stream URL: http://hd.ognp2p.gscdn.com/ognsdlive![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/LEQoy.png)
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