IEM Kiev Finals rematch DIMAGA vs MMA. Pretty hype. What about the postponed matches from last week? Is that going to be tagged onto the end of regular season or something?
Well that was a pretty boring series. Oh well, GG TT1.
Edit: Well, in case anyone is only reading this thread and not watching, I guess I shouldn't call it so early since they are still playing... but it is essentially over.
I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
I think one of his issues has always been how much he practiced? Also, you never know how much lag someone is getting.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
You mean back when IdrA was the best foreign Zerg by far and Sen was a clear second? But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia).
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
Possibly due to the lack of sufficient practice and infrastructure. The game has evolved so much beyond having incredible mechanics, and keeping in touch with the metagame (aka Koreans and top Euro players) is necessary to be successful. I doubt Taiwan has any of that beyond ladder.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
You mean back when IdrA was the best foreign Zerg by far and Sen was a clear second? But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia).
Yeah. Obviously he's still very good. But after he left Fnatic he basicly vanished from the western scene. Kinda the same way as Fenix after he joined IM.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
You mean back when IdrA was the best foreign Zerg by far and Sen was a clear second? But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia).
Yeah. Obviously he's still very good. But after he left Fnatic he basicly vanished from the western scene. Kinda the same way as Fenix after he joined IM.
That reminds me, whatever happened to Fenix? I heard somethings about health issues and how he returned to Peru for personal reasons. Still find it interesting he is part of IM despite never appearing on their squad, or even in pro-gaming in general. I think he's basically retired at this point.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
Possibly due to the lack of sufficient practice and infrastructure. The game has evolved so much beyond having incredible mechanics, and keeping in touch with the metagame (aka Koreans and top Euro players) is necessary to be successful. I doubt Taiwan has any of that beyond ladder.
Havent seen Sen stream in a while but he used to play exclusively on the Korean sever. I wonder if that is not the case anymore.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
You mean back when IdrA was the best foreign Zerg by far and Sen was a clear second? But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia).
Yeah. Obviously he's still very good. But after he left Fnatic he basicly vanished from the western scene. Kinda the same way as Fenix after he joined IM.
Agreed. I think it might just be the usual "everyone else caught up to him" problem. He's still playing well but everyone else got better, faster.
I like how this is a game that is 30 minutes, and still stuck at Muta/Ling/Bane.
qxc might be having trouble against Sen's style because of how different it is from traditional late-game compositions. He might be too used to BL/Corruptor/Infestor rather than the harass/mobile heavy Muta/Ling/Bane.
NASL really should employ a speech therapist to help Rotterdam articulate slightly better than donald duck and to remove that constant never ending sinus curve from bitter's emphasizing
SEn actually got Hive to upgrade his Muta to 3/0 and his ling bane to 3/3 Such a weird way to play, but I guess it cover the weakness of old mutaling : 3/3 marines.
On October 15 2012 11:22 transcendent one wrote: NASL really should employ a speech terapis to help Rotterdam articulate slightly better than donald duck and to remove that constant never ending sinus curve from bitter's emphasizing
Maybe you think they sound so silly because they're reading your writing.
If you don't like the way they sound, watch it on mute.
On October 15 2012 11:22 transcendent one wrote: NASL really should employ a speech terapis to help Rotterdam articulate slightly better than donald duck and to remove that constant never ending sinus curve from bitter's emphasizing
Maybe you think they sound so silly because they're reading your writing.
I hope qxc can make a close series out of this. I know he's been practicing lately so I hope he'll put up some results. Almost getting nostalgia now when I think back to the period of SC2 when qxc was one of the top foreigners.
On October 15 2012 11:39 Angelbelow wrote: Do you guys think it would help if QXC targeted the banes with his tanks? Don't think he did in either game 1 or 2.
Probably, but the sheer amount of Mutas would have sniped any Tanks, and the Ling/Bane flood was pretty overwhelming, so even if Tanks target fired the Banes, it wouldn't have mattered too much I think.
On October 15 2012 11:08 Noocta wrote: I still don't understand what happend to SEn over the last year. He probably make his thing over in Taiwan, but back in the day he was the best foreign Zerg by far. Seems so long ago..
You mean back when IdrA was the best foreign Zerg by far and Sen was a clear second? But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia).
Yeah. Obviously he's still very good. But after he left Fnatic he basicly vanished from the western scene. Kinda the same way as Fenix after he joined IM.
That reminds me, whatever happened to Fenix? I heard somethings about health issues and how he returned to Peru for personal reasons. Still find it interesting he is part of IM despite never appearing on their squad, or even in pro-gaming in general. I think he's basically retired at this point.
Well I just checked Liquipedia and I know he got second in WCS South America. So he's still playing and still on IM, despite having faded so much from the scene.
Oh please - no more it's the 'bad drama' comments on Stephana incident. The community quite deliberately transitioned to focus on celebrities and not the game. Personalities, drama and mailing sponsors are natural outcome when people are made to go looking for entertainment elsewhere.
I don't think Sen "faded" persay, but he chose to join his the Taiwan based team GAMA BURRRZZZ. He's just invested in his scene more and that is his choice. This is my understanding of the situation.
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
what? the only mistakes MMA made were overextending with his marines and medivacs in the middle but that is b/c dimaga was prepping for a 2-2 ling/bane all-in bust that mma was not anticipating. the other mistake would be not lifting depots quickly enough. I don't think you understand what build dimaga was using and why the game ended up looking like it did
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
what? the only mistakes MMA made were overextending with his marines and medivacs in the middle but that is b/c dimaga was prepping for a 2-2 ling/bane all-in bust that mma was not anticipating. the other mistake would be not lifting depots quickly enough. I don't think you understand what build dimaga was using and why the game ended up looking like it did
Do you remember a time when MMA just did not lose to Zerg? Sure, Lucky managed a few lucky wins by cheesing, and Zergs like DRG and Leenock were able to take the occasional series against him. There was a time when Zergs would see MMA in their bracket and go "welp, looks like my tournament run is over".
This guy was once unbeatable in TvZ for most people. He was an absolute legend. He won that last game, but there was none of that "wow, this guy is a god at SC2". Issues like raising depots too late multiple times is also a big concern if you are playing against Zerg. And as a MMA fan, that is disappointing.
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
what? the only mistakes MMA made were overextending with his marines and medivacs in the middle but that is b/c dimaga was prepping for a 2-2 ling/bane all-in bust that mma was not anticipating. the other mistake would be not lifting depots quickly enough. I don't think you understand what build dimaga was using and why the game ended up looking like it did
Do you remember a time when MMA just did not lose to Zerg? Sure, Lucky managed a few lucky wins by cheesing, and Zergs like DRG and Leenock were able to take the occasional series against him. There was a time when Zergs would see MMA in their bracket and go "welp, looks like my tournament run is over".
This guy was once unbeatable in TvZ for most people. He was an absolute legend. He won that last game, but there was none of that "wow, this guy is a god at SC2". Issues like raising depots too late multiple times is also a big concern if you are playing against Zerg. And as a MMA fan, that is disappointing.
Dimaga was going 2-2 ling/bane all-in. MMA had his marines and medivacs out on the map and not in the defense against Dimaga's bust. The fact that MMA survived the bust AND managed to eventually win the game is what's amazing because not having your bio back at home defending against a 3-base all-in is basically the worst possible position for the terran. That's what you're failing to see
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
what? the only mistakes MMA made were overextending with his marines and medivacs in the middle but that is b/c dimaga was prepping for a 2-2 ling/bane all-in bust that mma was not anticipating. the other mistake would be not lifting depots quickly enough. I don't think you understand what build dimaga was using and why the game ended up looking like it did
Do you remember a time when MMA just did not lose to Zerg? Sure, Lucky managed a few lucky wins by cheesing, and Zergs like DRG and Leenock were able to take the occasional series against him. There was a time when Zergs would see MMA in their bracket and go "welp, looks like my tournament run is over".
This guy was once unbeatable in TvZ for most people. He was an absolute legend. He won that last game, but there was none of that "wow, this guy is a god at SC2". Issues like raising depots too late multiple times is also a big concern if you are playing against Zerg. And as a MMA fan, that is disappointing.
Dimaga was going 2-2 ling/bane all-in. MMA had his marines and medivacs out on the map and not in the defense against Dimaga's bust. The fact that MMA survived the bust AND managed to eventually win the game is what's amazing because not having your bio back at home defending against a 3-base all-in is basically the worst possible position for the terran. That's what you're failing to see
Look, if this play from MMA is amazing to you, that great and I hope that you can continue to derive entertainment from it.
For me, it's not that interesting to see, knowing that it used to be so much better. Did he still win 2-0? Sure, but he did not dominate Dimaga. Back when MMA was still in shape, he would have dominated any foreign Zerg, even Stephano (see IPL 4), without any resistance.
Nowadays, his play is just ever so slightly off, and in a pro game, that makes a huge difference. This guy used to force mistakes, now he makes the mistakes.
On October 15 2012 12:41 MasterKang wrote: why is every mma tvz so good
That wasn't good at all. Entertaining maybe, but MMA should have crushed Dimaga. No offense to Dimaga, but seeing MMA play at this subpar level makes my brain hurt.
what? the only mistakes MMA made were overextending with his marines and medivacs in the middle but that is b/c dimaga was prepping for a 2-2 ling/bane all-in bust that mma was not anticipating. the other mistake would be not lifting depots quickly enough. I don't think you understand what build dimaga was using and why the game ended up looking like it did
Do you remember a time when MMA just did not lose to Zerg? Sure, Lucky managed a few lucky wins by cheesing, and Zergs like DRG and Leenock were able to take the occasional series against him. There was a time when Zergs would see MMA in their bracket and go "welp, looks like my tournament run is over".
This guy was once unbeatable in TvZ for most people. He was an absolute legend. He won that last game, but there was none of that "wow, this guy is a god at SC2". Issues like raising depots too late multiple times is also a big concern if you are playing against Zerg. And as a MMA fan, that is disappointing.
Dimaga was going 2-2 ling/bane all-in. MMA had his marines and medivacs out on the map and not in the defense against Dimaga's bust. The fact that MMA survived the bust AND managed to eventually win the game is what's amazing because not having your bio back at home defending against a 3-base all-in is basically the worst possible position for the terran. That's what you're failing to see
Look, if this play from MMA is amazing to you, that great and I hope that you can continue to derive entertainment from it.
For me, it's not that interesting to see, knowing that it used to be so much better. Did he still win 2-0? Sure, but he did not dominate Dimaga. Back when MMA was still in shape, he would have dominated any foreign Zerg, even Stephano (see IPL 4), without any resistance.
Nowadays, his play is just ever so slightly off, and in a pro game, that makes a huge difference. This guy used to force mistakes, now he makes the mistakes.
I think everyone else has just gotten better, and MMA has not raised his game up to the level of his contemporaries. The combination of Ryu Won leaving, the queen patch, and struggles with motivation have really screwed with the fundamentals of his play.
EPT
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But yeah... that was a very, very long time ago lol. Not sure what caused Sen to fade so much (although he did the best out of any non-Korean in WCS Asia). 
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