• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 05:19
CET 11:19
KST 19:19
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros10
Community News
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced2[BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)4Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win3RSL Season 3: RO16 results & RO8 bracket13Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge2
StarCraft 2
General
BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced SC: Evo Complete - Ranked Ladder OPEN ALPHA When will we find out if there are more tournament Weekly Cups (Nov 17-23): Solar, MaxPax, Clem win Weekly Cups (Nov 10-16): Reynor, Solar lead Zerg surge
Tourneys
Constellation Cup - Main Event - Stellar Fest Tenacious Turtle Tussle [Alpha Pro Series] Nice vs Cure RSL Revival: Season 3 $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 501 Price of Progress Mutation # 500 Fright night Mutation # 499 Chilling Adaptation Mutation # 498 Wheel of Misfortune|Cradle of Death
Brood War
General
Which season is the best in ASL? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Data analysis on 70 million replays sas.vorti stream [BSL21] Ro.16 Group Stage (C->B->A->D)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] RO16 Tie Breaker - Group B - Sun 21:00 CET [BSL21] GosuLeague T1 Ro16 - Tue & Thu 22:00 CET
Strategy
Game Theory for Starcraft How to stay on top of macro? Current Meta PvZ map balance
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread The Perfect Game Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Should offensive tower rushing be viable in RTS games?
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Artificial Intelligence Thread YouTube Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion NBA General Discussion MLB/Baseball 2023 TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
Where to ask questions and add stream? The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Esports Earnings: Bigger Pri…
TrAiDoS
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
DnB/metal remix FFO Mick Go…
ImbaTosS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2622 users

[DreamHack] Valencia Day 2 - Page 16

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 390 Next
Azarkon
Profile Joined January 2010
United States21060 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-23 08:49:35
September 23 2012 08:48 GMT
#301
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.
This is such a bad joke.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


Koreans who are sent to NA / EU tournaments are mid-tier+, while NA / EU tournaments, due to their BYOG / OB format, contain a lot of low / mid-tier- NA / EU players - ie half of the players in DH Valencia.

An analysis has to be over the top, say, 20-30 NA / EU players rather than the entirety of NA / EU players to be useful.
ZwuckeL
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany563 Posts
September 23 2012 08:48 GMT
#302
On September 23 2012 17:46 iglocska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:45 Dodgin wrote:
Foreigners in general aren't catching up but a few of them can compete with the good Korean players.

It's the same as it's always been, the names are just Stephano Vortix and Lucifron instead of Idra Jinro and HuK.


That be right, for every player that seems to catch up, someone does seem to fall behind...


It's just the way the pro scene works. It's all about improving the fastest. Stephano Vortix etc simply improved quicker than Huk and his EG Curse - mates
MartinN
Profile Joined April 2011
Spain307 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-23 08:50:53
September 23 2012 08:49 GMT
#303
the first player to arrive in SC2 Area today was lucifroN ! training since early!

[image loading]
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
September 23 2012 08:49 GMT
#304
On September 23 2012 17:45 iglocska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


I didn't really base it on that single match, but rather watching how those players play the matches out in general. WCS europe seemed to provide much higher quality games for example than I expected. Stephano going toe to toe with Taeja, and producing a similarly high quality games as against Lucifron is a good example.


compare top 20 koreans to top 20 foreigners, heck, even compare top 50 koreans to top 20 foreigners, i assure you, most of the top 50 koreans would beat all foreigners except for the top 3 or something
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
revel8
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom3022 Posts
September 23 2012 08:49 GMT
#305
Lucifron might be thinking of going full-time and perhaps putting his studies on hold. If he can be competitive and win money then might be a good plan. I think Vortix will still stick with his studies though. Amazing these guys can be so good while still being students. Nerchio does it too.

Polt as well, although I think he has been on a break from his studies this year. I think he will have to go back to University at some point too.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
September 23 2012 08:49 GMT
#306
On September 23 2012 17:49 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:45 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


I didn't really base it on that single match, but rather watching how those players play the matches out in general. WCS europe seemed to provide much higher quality games for example than I expected. Stephano going toe to toe with Taeja, and producing a similarly high quality games as against Lucifron is a good example.


compare top 20 koreans to top 20 foreigners, heck, even compare top 50 koreans to top 20 foreigners, i assure you, most of the top 50 koreans would beat all foreigners except for the top 3 or something

That's how it's been since the start of SC2, not much has changed except the names.
Glorious SEA doto
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
September 23 2012 08:50 GMT
#307
On September 23 2012 17:45 Dodgin wrote:
Foreigners in general aren't catching up but a few of them can compete with the good Korean players.

It's the same as it's always been, the names are just Stephano Vortix and Lucifron instead of Idra Jinro and HuK.


Please tell me which Koreans Lucifron has "competed" with. He got stomped by Violet.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
September 23 2012 08:51 GMT
#308
On September 23 2012 17:50 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:45 Dodgin wrote:
Foreigners in general aren't catching up but a few of them can compete with the good Korean players.

It's the same as it's always been, the names are just Stephano Vortix and Lucifron instead of Idra Jinro and HuK.


Please tell me which Koreans Lucifron has "competed" with. He got stomped by Violet.


I just named the top 3 of WCS EU as an example because I figure they are some of the best foreigners currently. I don't know if he can become a korean-slayer.
Notfragile
Profile Joined April 2011
Greece713 Posts
September 23 2012 08:51 GMT
#309
On September 23 2012 17:50 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:45 Dodgin wrote:
Foreigners in general aren't catching up but a few of them can compete with the good Korean players.

It's the same as it's always been, the names are just Stephano Vortix and Lucifron instead of Idra Jinro and HuK.


Please tell me which Koreans Lucifron has "competed" with. He got stomped by Violet.


Yes. Let us not doubt our Korean overlords.
They might not like it.

Gogo Elfi!
"The art of war is of vital importance to the state" || MVP.Keen fan since the day he stole my heart with a double 2rax. http://i.imgur.com/A82cl.gif
X3GoldDot
Profile Joined August 2011
Malaysia3840 Posts
September 23 2012 08:52 GMT
#310
On September 23 2012 17:48 Azarkon wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.
This is such a bad joke.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


Koreans who are sent to NA / EU tournaments are mid-tier+, while NA / EU tournaments, due to their BYOG / OB format, contain a lot of low / mid-tier- NA / EU players - ie half of the players in DH Valencia.

An analysis has to be over the top, say, 20-30 NA / EU players rather than the entirety of NA / EU players to be useful.


when a code B player gets 2nd in mlg, you realise that koreans are much better AS USUAL. as i said before, while the top 3 foreigners may go toe to toe with top 10 koreans, once you compare foreigner 5-20 to any code A korean, you would easily see the code A koreans winning
prime/startale/[SexComaZerg, RoyalRoaderZerg, SirLifealot] ingame ID = GoodGame
Dosey
Profile Joined September 2010
United States4505 Posts
September 23 2012 08:53 GMT
#311
StC has always struck me as a Korean version of TLO. So good in the beta and early on, always watched as a player and pretty famous, now he's just... meh.
CygnusAres
Profile Joined August 2011
Singapore893 Posts
September 23 2012 08:53 GMT
#312
And don't forget in Code B we have YongJwa, plus the swarm of elephants is not out yet from the zoo...
"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul" - Invictus. Favorite Players: TaeJa, Bogus, and Zest, Fighting!
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-09-23 08:55:01
September 23 2012 08:54 GMT
#313
On September 23 2012 17:52 X3GoldDot wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:48 Azarkon wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.
This is such a bad joke.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


Koreans who are sent to NA / EU tournaments are mid-tier+, while NA / EU tournaments, due to their BYOG / OB format, contain a lot of low / mid-tier- NA / EU players - ie half of the players in DH Valencia.

An analysis has to be over the top, say, 20-30 NA / EU players rather than the entirety of NA / EU players to be useful.


when a code B player gets 2nd in mlg, you realise that koreans are much better AS USUAL. as i said before, while the top 3 foreigners may go toe to toe with top 10 koreans, once you compare foreigner 5-20 to any code A korean, you would easily see the code A koreans winning


Yonghwa is a code B player that is slaughtering code S players left and right in Korea right now. Alicia and Losira, both code B, are known to be really strong players and I don't think anyone would be too surprised if they beat a code S player every now and then. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

Oh and yes, half of the tournament may be full of low tier players, but we're watching Elfi right now go toe to toe with thestc. Quite the achievement I'd say.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
September 23 2012 08:54 GMT
#314
Lets go Elfi

deus.machinarum
Profile Joined September 2011
Austria658 Posts
September 23 2012 08:54 GMT
#315
On September 23 2012 17:53 Dosey wrote:
StC has always struck me as a Korean version of TLO. So good in the beta and early on, always watched as a player and pretty famous, now he's just... meh.



yeah, totally agree, kinda sad about TLO being in this place though...
Nothing worth having comes easy.
Fusilero
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United Kingdom50293 Posts
September 23 2012 08:55 GMT
#316
On September 23 2012 17:54 iglocska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:52 X3GoldDot wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:48 Azarkon wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:43 FakeDeath wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:34 iglocska wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:30 Carnate wrote:
Good decision making for votix


He's incredibly good. Foreigners finally catching up


Continue to dream on.
This is such a bad joke.

One series of ZvZ and foreigners are finally catching up?
More like lagging behind.

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=366722


Koreans who are sent to NA / EU tournaments are mid-tier+, while NA / EU tournaments, due to their BYOG / OB format, contain a lot of low / mid-tier- NA / EU players - ie half of the players in DH Valencia.

An analysis has to be over the top, say, 20-30 NA / EU players rather than the entirety of NA / EU players to be useful.


when a code B player gets 2nd in mlg, you realise that koreans are much better AS USUAL. as i said before, while the top 3 foreigners may go toe to toe with top 10 koreans, once you compare foreigner 5-20 to any code A korean, you would easily see the code A koreans winning


Yonghwa is a code B player that is slaughtering code S players left and right in Korea right now. Alicia and Losira, both code B, are known to be really strong players and I don't think anyone would be too surprised if they beat a code S player every now and then. It's not as simple as you make it out to be.

What about players like revival and dream posting strong results at mlgs?
Glorious SEA doto
xrapture
Profile Blog Joined December 2011
United States1644 Posts
September 23 2012 08:55 GMT
#317
On September 23 2012 17:53 CygnusAres wrote:
And don't forget in Code B we have YongJwa, plus the swarm of elephants is not out yet from the zoo...


lol yup.

100+ Kespa players just switched to SC2 and they're all already better than almost all of WCS Europe.
Everyone is either delusional, a nihlilst, or dead from suicide.
iglocska
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway589 Posts
September 23 2012 08:56 GMT
#318
On September 23 2012 17:55 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:53 CygnusAres wrote:
And don't forget in Code B we have YongJwa, plus the swarm of elephants is not out yet from the zoo...


lol yup.

100+ Kespa players just switched to SC2 and they're all already better than almost all of WCS Europe.


That is true, but the Kespa players suddenly appearing and being as good as they are shouldn't take away from the fact that more foreigners seem to be able to go up against gsl players.
Dodgin
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Canada39254 Posts
September 23 2012 08:57 GMT
#319
That was hilariously one sided.
Laryleprakon
Profile Joined May 2011
New Zealand9496 Posts
September 23 2012 08:57 GMT
#320
On September 23 2012 17:56 iglocska wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 23 2012 17:55 xrapture wrote:
On September 23 2012 17:53 CygnusAres wrote:
And don't forget in Code B we have YongJwa, plus the swarm of elephants is not out yet from the zoo...


lol yup.

100+ Kespa players just switched to SC2 and they're all already better than almost all of WCS Europe.


That is true, but the Kespa players suddenly appearing and being as good as they are shouldn't take away from the fact that more foreigners seem to be able to go up against gsl players.


Is there really more players or are they just different from who was able to do it before?
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 390 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 4h 41m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
SortOf 189
ProTech137
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32360
Sea 2479
Shuttle 1616
Horang2 1246
Rain 786
Hyuk 666
BeSt 427
Mini 267
Stork 250
Larva 214
[ Show more ]
Backho 151
firebathero 130
EffOrt 129
Light 104
Soulkey 81
Leta 78
Sharp 72
Rush 67
ZerO 60
soO 53
ToSsGirL 48
Sacsri 27
Mong 26
sorry 24
Free 24
Noble 23
Aegong 19
Terrorterran 16
NaDa 16
Bale 14
Dota 2
XcaliburYe130
NeuroSwarm78
League of Legends
JimRising 439
Reynor115
Counter-Strike
olofmeister1791
allub240
Other Games
Happy405
Fuzer 269
Pyrionflax150
Mew2King102
QueenE26
MindelVK5
ZerO(Twitch)5
Organizations
Dota 2
PGL Dota 2 - Main Stream248
StarCraft: Brood War
UltimateBattle 56
lovetv 13
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 83
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1688
Upcoming Events
WardiTV Korean Royale
4h 41m
ByuN vs herO
ByuN vs Classic
OSC
6h 41m
LAN Event
7h 41m
Replay Cast
12h 41m
Replay Cast
22h 41m
WardiTV Korean Royale
1d 1h
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV Korean Royale
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
StarCraft2.fi
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Wardi Open
4 days
StarCraft2.fi
4 days
Wardi Open
5 days
StarCraft2.fi
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

SOOP Univ League 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
CSCL: Masked Kings S3
Slon Tour Season 2
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2

Upcoming

BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.