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On July 12 2012 23:49 opterown wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:47 Vanadiel wrote:
It's kinda hard to say that Naniwa is stronger or weaker than Stephano, Naniwa is actually a really smart player when he has time to prepare for his opponent because he seems to be a really hard working man, and I guess it is why he's really successful on GSL (that, plus the fact he was able to dodge PvZ until today). On the other hand, Stephano is so incredible solid, especially in ZvT and ZvP and that's why his overall performance in big competition are still amazing in which you don't have so many time to study your opponent, and I guess that's why we didn't see Naniwa getting high in any tournament this year. Bottom line is, Naniwa is probably stronger in the GSL format (but, who knows? We'll see when Stephano goes in it) but Stephano is better for big lan event.
Amazing game today anyway! i reckon naniwa's back to back RO8, being knocked out by GSL champions, is bigger than anything stephano has done this year =]. Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:49 priestnoob wrote:On July 12 2012 23:43 M7Jagger wrote:On July 12 2012 22:45 Forikorder wrote:On July 12 2012 22:40 M7Jagger wrote:On July 12 2012 21:45 legaton wrote:
Sweden-based posters reminds me of english fans after a defeat of their national squad at football. Too many "if" in all their posts.
About the best foreigner title, i have a question. What builds were created by Naniwa? I only remember the 3 stalker opening in PvP, but i'm not even sure if he invented it. Naniwa seems to be excellent at executing build orders, but he doesn't seem as creative as MC (how many two bases all-in has he invented?) or Stephano in the foreign scene (he literally changed the entire way you play PvZ with his 200/200 max roach army in the 11 minute, and he reintroduced ultras in standard zerg play). But what does changing the way you play a game has to do with how good you are? The only thing that matters is how good you perform and Naniwa is by far the best foreigner right now, you can't even compare Stephano to Naniwa. Stephano will be in Code S next season (right?) and i'm sure he will get crushed, his play is so predictable that everyone will just prepare for it and stop it. Mark my words. *checks nationality* *is not surprised* The fact that I am swedish doesn't make my argument less true. Could you please elaborate why my argument is flawed? You argue changing up your play is unimportant and then say Stephano is bad for not varying his play. Your argument is so bad it's a wonder some people actually were defending your position. I guess it's because Forikorder's reply was even worse. no changing up your OWN play, but the metagame was what he said iirc
Debatable.Personally,i feel that Stephano and Naniwa are the best foreigners.Can't say who is better solely because
We haven't seen Stephano play in GSL.
Haven't seen much of Naniwa in foreign tournaments because he wanted to focus on GSL.
So it is hard to say actually.
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On July 12 2012 23:49 priestnoob wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:43 M7Jagger wrote:On July 12 2012 22:45 Forikorder wrote:On July 12 2012 22:40 M7Jagger wrote:On July 12 2012 21:45 legaton wrote:
Sweden-based posters reminds me of english fans after a defeat of their national squad at football. Too many "if" in all their posts.
About the best foreigner title, i have a question. What builds were created by Naniwa? I only remember the 3 stalker opening in PvP, but i'm not even sure if he invented it. Naniwa seems to be excellent at executing build orders, but he doesn't seem as creative as MC (how many two bases all-in has he invented?) or Stephano in the foreign scene (he literally changed the entire way you play PvZ with his 200/200 max roach army in the 11 minute, and he reintroduced ultras in standard zerg play). But what does changing the way you play a game has to do with how good you are? The only thing that matters is how good you perform and Naniwa is by far the best foreigner right now, you can't even compare Stephano to Naniwa. Stephano will be in Code S next season (right?) and i'm sure he will get crushed, his play is so predictable that everyone will just prepare for it and stop it. Mark my words. *checks nationality* *is not surprised* The fact that I am swedish doesn't make my argument less true. Could you please elaborate why my argument is flawed? You argue changing up your play is unimportant and then say Stephano is bad for not varying his play. Your argument is so bad it's a wonder some people actually were defending your position. I guess it's because Forikorder's reply was even worse.
I wasn't talking about chaing your strategies in a series, i'm talking about chagning the metagame. The guy argued that Stephano was a great player because he chagned how the game os played out and I argued that it doesn't matter because Naniwa has had more success that Stephano and is therefore the better player, because it's not like the game is about developing new strategies, it's about winning. You might want to try to understand what you read.
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I actually liked Naniwa here...personally I hated him before for acting so cocky to Korean progamers, even MC tweeted about it (kinda unprofessional though, sorry MC)...he's one of the hardworking foreigners and his seed to GSL is well earned and kept.
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United States6429 Posts
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I think Byun will be the champion. Seed will be no problem seeing how genius got crushed, then there is DRG or MC, MC is protoss so I bet on byun. DRG can be harder but I think with enough time to prepare byun will win, he puts so many things into his play, he forgets nothing!
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Russian Federation1849 Posts
I have not seen the games, but gratz to Naniwa for taking 2 maps. How well did he look on the other 3?
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Sad that Nestea lost, but it is pretty nice that the final 4 is as balanced as possible. This seems like a good time for SC2, balance-wise, at least in the GSL Code S.
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wow nestea getting roflstomed by Byun?
im not surprised that naniwa lost, but taking 2 games off DRG is pretty impressive
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On July 13 2012 00:52 ThatGuy89 wrote:
wow nestea getting roflstomed by Byun?
im not surprised that naniwa lost, but taking 2 games off DRG is pretty impressive
And a very close fifth game at times.
This series could have gone either way and Naniwa's achievement is extremely impressive.
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763 Posts
On July 12 2012 23:18 polyphonyEX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:13 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 23:09 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 12 2012 23:05 LakseWim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:57 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 udgnim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:46 Mayd wrote:
I don't understand why should we cheer for a douchebag just because he is a foreigner. if you haven't noticed yet a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags and I cheer for Naniwa because he's one of the hardest working foreigners out there and genuinely wants to become one of the best SC2 pros out there Apart from Idra, there aren't any successful foreign SC2 pros that I can think of. Who are you thinking of? nice try troll You lurked forever  But you still should not call SeaSwift of all people a troll The hidden assumption here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that only GSL results matter, and then it's indeed Jinro, Idra and Naniwa, right? Edit: Forgot Huk -.- No, he's actually right there. That isn't something I would say. I was responding to someone who said "a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags" and meant to put the word "douchebag" between 'successful' and 'foreign', but I missed it out -_- my bad The thing is that Naniwa isn't a douchbag. He's a passionate character with a bit of a troubled past and likes to speak his mind. I see so many people on these forums misrepresent Naniwa's personality as one with 'malicious' intent. I guess that's the cost of being different. Anyway, there will always be haters. All I know is that Naniwa proved a lot of people wrong tonight.
No, Naniwa definitely goes beyond being passionate. Please don't think I'm just a random Naniwa hater, because it's not that. It's not a secret that I don't like him, but I'm not one of those people that doesn't like him just because he's popular or whatever. Like I said earlier in the thread in Providence I didn't know him, I didn't really think anything of him good or bad at the time. I barely knew who he was, I'd just heard his name once or twice before. I was getting autographs from pro players, and it was a great experience, the pro players tend to be a great group of people that laugh and joke and are generally friendly.
Then there was Naniwa, who I didn't know, and I felt bad not asking for his autograph because I had gotten literally everyone else's in the room, so I thought I would ask him so he didn't feel left out and insulted. He asked me what if he didn't want to give his autograph, and I just smiled and shrugged because everyone else was good natured and the mood was pretty good and he just exploded. Other pro players and their people shuffled away, and then he stormed off after about 7 mouthfuls of abuse while I was trying to figure out what set him off and trying to calm him down. Other fans apologised to me for him. >.< So yeah, to me, I think he's a jerk. If he's changed since then well then good, but I've got no way of knowing that, but speaking as someone that met him not THAT long ago he definitely had a very angry streak. That experience totally messed up the rest of that MLG for me.
All that said I'm glad that he performed better today than I expected him to because even if I don't necessarily like a person I do enjoy seeing people improve and play better games.
Edit: And for people comparing him to IdrA ... IdrA is actually pretty laid back in person. Had a great experience with him talking about making the IdrA face. We were talking and laughing and I asked him if it's ever difficult for him to make the IdrA face. Mid-laugh he just stopped and put on the :-| face, and it was hilarious.
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On July 13 2012 00:31 Hemula wrote:
I have not seen the games, but gratz to Naniwa for taking 2 maps. How well did he look on the other 3?
He somewhat got crushed in the second game if I remember it correctly.
Can't remember the third game.
He was about one good engagement away from victory on the last game.
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On July 13 2012 01:08 MVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:18 polyphonyEX wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 23:09 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 12 2012 23:05 LakseWim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:57 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 udgnim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:46 Mayd wrote:
I don't understand why should we cheer for a douchebag just because he is a foreigner. if you haven't noticed yet a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags and I cheer for Naniwa because he's one of the hardest working foreigners out there and genuinely wants to become one of the best SC2 pros out there Apart from Idra, there aren't any successful foreign SC2 pros that I can think of. Who are you thinking of? nice try troll You lurked forever But you still should not call SeaSwift of all people a troll The hidden assumption here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that only GSL results matter, and then it's indeed Jinro, Idra and Naniwa, right? Edit: Forgot Huk -.- No, he's actually right there. That isn't something I would say. I was responding to someone who said "a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags" and meant to put the word "douchebag" between 'successful' and 'foreign', but I missed it out -_- my bad The thing is that Naniwa isn't a douchbag. He's a passionate character with a bit of a troubled past and likes to speak his mind. I see so many people on these forums misrepresent Naniwa's personality as one with 'malicious' intent. I guess that's the cost of being different. Anyway, there will always be haters. All I know is that Naniwa proved a lot of people wrong tonight. No, Naniwa definitely goes beyond being passionate. Please don't think I'm just a random Naniwa hater, because it's not that. It's not a secret that I don't like him, but I'm not one of those people that doesn't like him just because he's popular or whatever. Like I said earlier in the thread in Providence I didn't know him, I didn't really think anything of him good or bad at the time. I barely knew who he was, I'd just heard his name once or twice before. I was getting autographs from pro players, and it was a great experience, the pro players tend to be a great group of people that laugh and joke and are generally friendly. Then there was Naniwa, who I didn't know, and I felt bad not asking for his autograph because I had gotten literally everyone else's in the room, so I thought I would ask him so he didn't feel left out and insulted. He asked me what if he didn't want to give his autograph, and I just smiled and shrugged because everyone else was good natured and the mood was pretty good and he just exploded. Other pro players and their people shuffled away, and then he stormed off after about 7 mouthfuls of abuse while I was trying to figure out what set him off and trying to calm him down. Other fans apologised to me for him. >.< So yeah, to me, I think he's a jerk. If he's changed since then well then good, but I've got no way of knowing that, but speaking as someone that met him not THAT long ago he definitely had a very angry streak. That experience totally messed up the rest of that MLG for me. All that said I'm glad that he performed better today than I expected him to because even if I don't necessarily like a person I do enjoy seeing people improve and play better games. Edit: And for people comparing him to IdrA ... IdrA is actually pretty laid back in person. Had a great experience with him talking about making the IdrA face. We were talking and laughing and I asked him if it's ever difficult for him to make the IdrA face. Mid-laugh he just stopped and put on the :-| face, and it was hilarious.
Idra stated something about Naniwa not being a very nice person in the State of the Game.. I am sorry you had a bad experience with his also so has Idra.
DRG was thrown off quite bit but he did a amazing job in game 5. So DRG wins and will be playing against MC which will be awesome  .
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I actually gained a lot of respect for Naniwa, like many people I used to dislike him but he's a great player.
Now is he better than Stephano? Depends only on what you value the most. Stephano doesn't care about the GSL, which is the best competition but extremely ungrateful for the players. I think Stephano is much better but I can understand people arguing otherwise.
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How the hell did this thread turn into a Naniwa v IdrA debate?
Anywas Naniwa played extremely impressive and its such a shame he didnt win, I was ready to go crazy.
Next time!
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On July 13 2012 01:08 MVega wrote:Show nested quote +On July 12 2012 23:18 polyphonyEX wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 23:09 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 12 2012 23:05 LakseWim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:57 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 udgnim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:46 Mayd wrote:
I don't understand why should we cheer for a douchebag just because he is a foreigner. if you haven't noticed yet a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags and I cheer for Naniwa because he's one of the hardest working foreigners out there and genuinely wants to become one of the best SC2 pros out there Apart from Idra, there aren't any successful foreign SC2 pros that I can think of. Who are you thinking of? nice try troll You lurked forever But you still should not call SeaSwift of all people a troll The hidden assumption here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that only GSL results matter, and then it's indeed Jinro, Idra and Naniwa, right? Edit: Forgot Huk -.- No, he's actually right there. That isn't something I would say. I was responding to someone who said "a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags" and meant to put the word "douchebag" between 'successful' and 'foreign', but I missed it out -_- my bad The thing is that Naniwa isn't a douchbag. He's a passionate character with a bit of a troubled past and likes to speak his mind. I see so many people on these forums misrepresent Naniwa's personality as one with 'malicious' intent. I guess that's the cost of being different. Anyway, there will always be haters. All I know is that Naniwa proved a lot of people wrong tonight. No, Naniwa definitely goes beyond being passionate. Please don't think I'm just a random Naniwa hater, because it's not that. It's not a secret that I don't like him, but I'm not one of those people that doesn't like him just because he's popular or whatever. Like I said earlier in the thread in Providence I didn't know him, I didn't really think anything of him good or bad at the time. I barely knew who he was, I'd just heard his name once or twice before. I was getting autographs from pro players, and it was a great experience, the pro players tend to be a great group of people that laugh and joke and are generally friendly. Then there was Naniwa, who I didn't know, and I felt bad not asking for his autograph because I had gotten literally everyone else's in the room, so I thought I would ask him so he didn't feel left out and insulted. He asked me what if he didn't want to give his autograph, and I just smiled and shrugged because everyone else was good natured and the mood was pretty good and he just exploded. Other pro players and their people shuffled away, and then he stormed off after about 7 mouthfuls of abuse while I was trying to figure out what set him off and trying to calm him down. Other fans apologised to me for him. >.< So yeah, to me, I think he's a jerk. If he's changed since then well then good, but I've got no way of knowing that, but speaking as someone that met him not THAT long ago he definitely had a very angry streak. That experience totally messed up the rest of that MLG for me. All that said I'm glad that he performed better today than I expected him to because even if I don't necessarily like a person I do enjoy seeing people improve and play better games. Edit: And for people comparing him to IdrA ... IdrA is actually pretty laid back in person. Had a great experience with him talking about making the IdrA face. We were talking and laughing and I asked him if it's ever difficult for him to make the IdrA face. Mid-laugh he just stopped and put on the :-| face, and it was hilarious.
Going up shitting live reports threads about him months later after having a single bad experience doesn't make it any better.
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On July 13 2012 01:25 Apollo_Shards wrote:
How the hell did this thread turn into a Naniwa v IdrA debate?
Anywas Naniwa played extremely impressive and its such a shame he didnt win, I was ready to go crazy.
Next time!
there are alot of swedish posters. that should tell you enough.
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sad for naniwa, amazing job though.
rly suprised by the clear 3-0 of byun oO
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On July 13 2012 01:41 Govou wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 01:25 Apollo_Shards wrote:
How the hell did this thread turn into a Naniwa v IdrA debate?
Anywas Naniwa played extremely impressive and its such a shame he didnt win, I was ready to go crazy.
Next time! there are alot of swedish posters. that should tell you enough.
No, being Swedish doesnt tell me anything...
What would having Swedish posters do to make that debate come up?
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On July 13 2012 01:33 polyphonyEX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 13 2012 01:08 MVega wrote:On July 12 2012 23:18 polyphonyEX wrote:On July 12 2012 23:13 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 23:09 Ghanburighan wrote:On July 12 2012 23:05 LakseWim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:57 SeaSwift wrote:On July 12 2012 22:52 udgnim wrote:On July 12 2012 22:46 Mayd wrote:
I don't understand why should we cheer for a douchebag just because he is a foreigner. if you haven't noticed yet a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags and I cheer for Naniwa because he's one of the hardest working foreigners out there and genuinely wants to become one of the best SC2 pros out there Apart from Idra, there aren't any successful foreign SC2 pros that I can think of. Who are you thinking of? nice try troll You lurked forever But you still should not call SeaSwift of all people a troll The hidden assumption here (correct me if I'm wrong) is that only GSL results matter, and then it's indeed Jinro, Idra and Naniwa, right? Edit: Forgot Huk -.- No, he's actually right there. That isn't something I would say. I was responding to someone who said "a lot of foreign SC pros are douchebags" and meant to put the word "douchebag" between 'successful' and 'foreign', but I missed it out -_- my bad The thing is that Naniwa isn't a douchbag. He's a passionate character with a bit of a troubled past and likes to speak his mind. I see so many people on these forums misrepresent Naniwa's personality as one with 'malicious' intent. I guess that's the cost of being different. Anyway, there will always be haters. All I know is that Naniwa proved a lot of people wrong tonight. No, Naniwa definitely goes beyond being passionate. Please don't think I'm just a random Naniwa hater, because it's not that. It's not a secret that I don't like him, but I'm not one of those people that doesn't like him just because he's popular or whatever. Like I said earlier in the thread in Providence I didn't know him, I didn't really think anything of him good or bad at the time. I barely knew who he was, I'd just heard his name once or twice before. I was getting autographs from pro players, and it was a great experience, the pro players tend to be a great group of people that laugh and joke and are generally friendly. Then there was Naniwa, who I didn't know, and I felt bad not asking for his autograph because I had gotten literally everyone else's in the room, so I thought I would ask him so he didn't feel left out and insulted. He asked me what if he didn't want to give his autograph, and I just smiled and shrugged because everyone else was good natured and the mood was pretty good and he just exploded. Other pro players and their people shuffled away, and then he stormed off after about 7 mouthfuls of abuse while I was trying to figure out what set him off and trying to calm him down. Other fans apologised to me for him. >.< So yeah, to me, I think he's a jerk. If he's changed since then well then good, but I've got no way of knowing that, but speaking as someone that met him not THAT long ago he definitely had a very angry streak. That experience totally messed up the rest of that MLG for me. All that said I'm glad that he performed better today than I expected him to because even if I don't necessarily like a person I do enjoy seeing people improve and play better games. Edit: And for people comparing him to IdrA ... IdrA is actually pretty laid back in person. Had a great experience with him talking about making the IdrA face. We were talking and laughing and I asked him if it's ever difficult for him to make the IdrA face. Mid-laugh he just stopped and put on the :-| face, and it was hilarious. Going up shitting live reports threads about him months later after having a single bad experience doesn't make it any better.
Oh, a faniwa in shining armour charging to the rescue when it was unnecessary.
If you had bothered to actually take the time to read his post, he explained why he doesn't particularly like him instead of just straight up hate, unlike a lot of other posters in here. He also mentions that although he once had a negative experience with him in the past, he still respects him as a player.
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Byun so deserves that, could easily win the whole thing.
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EPT
