On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
not to mention that the biggest differential in upgrades would be 1 or 2 upgrades at most, which wouldn't have affected the battle much, considering that the banelings were able to connect with the marines
On July 03 2012 09:26 Rulker wrote: Speaking of MMA it's going to be hard to wait to the 17th for his GSL matches T_T
Speaking of MMA, he used to have the best TvZ in the world and now he can't beat a zerg to save his life. Makes you go hmmmmm.
66% w/r vs Zerg (both TLPDs) in 2012.
Queen patch didn't go through until like May lol.
and since then he's beaten IdrA Symbol Nestea Shine and Stephano. To name a few. lol .
And since then, 30% win rate in the matchup
Losing to Losira Sen Byul and Hyun, all dominating in GSTL (except for Sen). Not terrible
You can mention all the names you want, but his win rate is still 30% in the matchup, which is what tells the most. If anything, losing to Losira, Sen, Byul, and Hyun supports me more than yourself.
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
not to mention that the biggest differential in upgrades would be 1 or 2 upgrades at most, which wouldn't have affected the battle much, considering that the banelings were able to connect with the marines
On July 03 2012 09:29 Lennient wrote: this makes MKP look like an inferior player, can't beat Coca by greedy play, non-standard build, and now hes trying to cheese him
No it doesn't.
If you don't cheese at least once in a bo9 then you're basically playing the series wrongly.
Or you play Zerg. G1: 15 Hatch into Queens G2: 15 Hatch into Queens G3: 15 Hatch into Queens G4: 15 Hatch into Queens G5: 15 Hatch into Queens G6: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G7: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G8: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G9: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed)
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
I don't think you are understanding. I'm not saying that Coca wouldn't have won anyway, but the queen buff affects everything. Coca can be safer at some points, which may lead to him getting more units and getting an earlier lead... perhaps earlier upgrades, faster tech, etc. It may help him hold off something like a drop more effectively since he has more units than normal when it comes. Everything in the game is affected... that's just how it is.
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
not to mention that the biggest differential in upgrades would be 1 or 2 upgrades at most, which wouldn't have affected the battle much, considering that the banelings were able to connect with the marines
How do you not get the fact that the game has totally changed and both Zergs and Terrans are playing the entire game differently? That specific situation would never have come up pre-patch because both players would have played completely different build orders.
On July 03 2012 09:29 Lennient wrote: this makes MKP look like an inferior player, can't beat Coca by greedy play, non-standard build, and now hes trying to cheese him
No it doesn't.
If you don't cheese at least once in a bo9 then you're basically playing the series wrongly.
Or you play Zerg. G1: 15 Hatch into Queens G2: 15 Hatch into Queens G3: 15 Hatch into Queens G4: 15 Hatch into Queens G5: 15 Hatch into Queens G6: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G7: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G8: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed) G9: 15 Hatch into Queens (if needed)
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EPT
