On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
What is Doa talking about? CoCa was not known for his ZvT before he left the scene. Back then--when the cries were "Terran OP" instead of "Terran UP"--CoCa was decent at ZvT. He was famous because he or NesTea had the best ZvP at a time when a lot of Zergs were at a loss as far as what they were supposed to do. He was good at ZvT, but he was not that good and he certainly was not favored against Code S Terrans like MarineKing.
And the person who said that balance does not matter and that CoCa is just a better player, MarineKing has a far better record in GSL, won an MLG when there was more difficult competition than when CoCa was there, and has overall just had better success. CoCa is a great player and if Protoss were the dominant race in GSL before he had to leave he probably would have won every GSL, but MarineKing has had far better success and without the recent changes to the TvZ match-up MarineKing would be favored against CoCa. That is not saying that the match-up is currently imba or whatever, but it certainly is harder for Terrans and far easier for Zergs.
Also why is this map even in the pool for this or any tournament? This map is dreadful, ESV has so many good maps, this however is just not one of them. Good to see MarineKing cheesing on this map I really don't want to watch a real game here.
On July 03 2012 09:29 Lennient wrote: this makes MKP look like an inferior player, can't beat Coca by greedy play, non-standard build, and now hes trying to cheese him
No it doesn't.
If you don't cheese at least once in a bo9 then you're basically playing the series wrongly.
On July 03 2012 09:32 PanzerKing wrote: This is terrible. Made it through the last two games, but I can't watch the rest of this matchup - TvZ was absolutely destroyed by the last patch.
Leaving when things are getting interesting,noo.. double proxies etc cool shanigans coming
On July 03 2012 09:29 Lennient wrote: this makes MKP look like an inferior player, can't beat Coca by greedy play, non-standard build, and now hes trying to cheese him
No it doesn't.
If you don't cheese at least once in a bo9 then you're basically playing the series wrongly.
What? Someone is blaming MKP for 2 raxing in the current state of the matchup?
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
Hmm, well the buff has changed a metagame significantly, since the queen buffs allow Zergs to build up safer economies in the early game, and allow for better creep spread. There is no question that Coca is playing great, but I'm sure the buff is helping him.
Either way though, I think by now it is all hypothetical anyways. I don't think that Blizzard is going to revert the patch, so we might as well live with it now, accept it rather than claim that the games under the new patch are meaningless, and try to adjust the meta game to the new patch.
On July 03 2012 09:03 -_- wrote: Is Coca on the same talent level as MKP? I haven't been following the scene very carefully lately. Is he a real threat to win this series?
Inferior Zergs have been beating the top Terrans commonly since the queen buff so yes he is a real threat to win this series.
yeah coca is such an inferior zerg. his zergling/baneling flanks were definitely stronger after that queen buff
While I feel Coca is out-playing MarineKing here, it's really stupid to pretend that the Queen buff doesn't play a part in every single TvZ right now - it obviously does, even if only indirectly.
ofc it does but at the same time, would the zergling/baneling flanks/surrounds have been ineffective if the buff wasn't implemented? no ofc not, mkp's army would still have been demolished
I think the point was, that situation would not have arisen if the game played out under a prior patch because the patch affects everything that happens after the pool is built.
a situation where the zerg has zerglings, banelings, and infestors aginst terran's marines/medivacs/tanks pretty much comes up in 99% of TvZ's.. regardless of the queen buff, coca's decision to surround and flank with banelings would have won him the battle
zerg would have had less, and they would be less well-upgraded
you realize that i am talking about the flank that coca made on entombed right? that game had progressed to the point where the only effect the buff would have on the game is the creep spread. That being said, in this specific game, the creep spread would have been the same, maybe a tiny bit worse, because MKP did not make helions that game to stop the creep (the aspect of creep-stopping strategy that was affected most by the buff). Therefore, the buff had little effect on coca's flank and he would've demolished that army regardless, so plz stop completely blaming stuff on the buff
EPT
