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On February 08 2012 19:55 Seraphone wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:50 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 19:46 Seraphone wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. So when pro Protoss players said you can't hold a 1-1-1 were they right? When Protoss said you can't stop Mutas in ZvP were they right? When Terran said you couldn't stop Infestor/BroodLord were they right? When Zerg said you couldn't stop the Protoss deathball were they right? Pro's always whine about balance they have a long, long history in this game of calling strategies broken and crying/whining about the game when the same strats were later just figured out when players played vs them more. And then shit gets patched. For what it's worth 1/1/1 is still damn effective against P even after patches, Destiny managed to knock Mana and HasuObs out of IPL TAC with mass muta despite winning $700 in his SC2 career and Blizzard introducing a new unit in HotS specifically to deal with muta. Thorzain got destroyed by Stephano's late game ZvT Infestor / Broodlord earlier this month despite killing Stephano's Hive during the game. Simply check the Shoutcraft Invitational final game 1. I'll give you one though, ZvP late game is now pretty Z favoured baring archon toilet. So because the strats still work they're imbalanced? The point was pro players would regularly consider these builds unbeatable but they got figured out and now they're just one of many solid strats than sometimes win and sometimes don't.
Uh, they were considered unbeatable and they got nerfed, albeit indirectly sometimes (main thing that comes to mind is fungal buff that almost completely killed deathballing).
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ah woot MC ro8
rooting for ganzi.. but parting will probably advance in the end..
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On February 08 2012 19:59 Drazerk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:57 Seeker wrote:On February 08 2012 19:55 Drazerk wrote:
Sorry Seeker the LR council are revoking your curse. LOL! We shall see..... we shall see.... Still gets mentioned in the LR guide don't worry
never seen this guide. :S
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United States97277 Posts
On February 08 2012 19:59 nokz88 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:56 Shellshock1122 wrote:On February 08 2012 19:56 WigglingSquid wrote:On February 08 2012 19:54 Fionn wrote:
One of the times the loser looked better. I am glad he's Code S. Hopefully he will either advance or stay. Nothing against GanZi, but he was raised in the age of GomTvT and I am not sure about his TvZ/TvP. Ganzi is fine TvZ. His TvP is bad Sounds like every Slayers Terran we have met so far.
Taeja is actually solid against protoss. MMA is making lots of progress
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Does anyone knows how MC trains at the moment? Just laddering and custom games with pro-gamers he's closer to?
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United Kingdom31255 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:00 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 19:57 Seeker wrote:On February 08 2012 19:55 Drazerk wrote:
Sorry Seeker the LR council are revoking your curse. LOL! We shall see..... we shall see.... Still gets mentioned in the LR guide don't worry never seen this guide. :S
Possibly because I haven't finished it yet 
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On February 08 2012 20:00 elwoodng wrote:
Does anyone knows how MC trains at the moment? Just laddering and custom games with pro-gamers he's closer to?
yeah pretty much.
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Gogo GanZi!
You got this EZ, not your fault TvP is a joke :D
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On February 08 2012 19:49 bouhko wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
"I spend time on stuff XXX" is not an argument to prove a point. Just give arguments, explain and you'll convince people. Otherwise, this just make you look patronizing. Now, I think you spending a lot of time on SC2 should allow you to easily find better arguments than the average gold whiner.
i presesnted all the arguments needed before i said that. but then they were questioning me
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LOL @ Morrow crying over TvP
and yeah i know he's not debating the matchup in general, rather toss vs terran macro, but overall terran is still by far the better race to use in tournaments, which monthly balance charts reflect pretty decently (altho not perfectly)
either way, they dont call it gsl code tvt because toss is imba 
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Well, it was nice being on the first page of Liquibet for a little while at least 
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On February 08 2012 19:58 Shellshock1122 wrote:
MMA, MC, aLive, Puzzle, Parting, Gumiho, Genius, and MKP is what I want the top 8 to be
Would be pretty depressing if Nestea/DRG can't give us atleast 1 zerg representative in the round 8.
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Costa Rica594 Posts
guess Jjakji < Ganzi < Parting will advance! gogo
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United States97277 Posts
On February 08 2012 20:00 Drazerk wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 08 2012 20:00 zhurai wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:59 Drazerk wrote:On February 08 2012 19:57 Seeker wrote:On February 08 2012 19:55 Drazerk wrote:
Sorry Seeker the LR council are revoking your curse. LOL! We shall see..... we shall see.... Still gets mentioned in the LR guide don't worry never seen this guide. :S Possibly because I haven't finished it yet
Spoilers!!!!!!!! I wanted to be surprised
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On February 08 2012 19:53 Medrea wrote:
If there is one thing I have noticed.
Zerg whine the most often.
Terran whines the worst, or is the whiniest.
Protoss whines the loudest.
I think whining in SC2 is more balanced than SC2 is.
There hasn't been one point in SC2 where Zerg was the overwhelming agreed upon strongest, so it kind of makes sense.
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On February 08 2012 20:01 snailz wrote:LOL @ Morrow crying over TvP and yeah i know he's not debating the matchup in general, rather toss vs terran macro, but overall terran is still by far the better race to use in tournaments, which monthly balance charts reflect pretty decently (altho not perfectly) either way, they dont call it gsl code tvt because toss is imba
GOMTvT
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37114 Posts
C'MON JJAKJI!!! LET'S DO THIS!!!
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So happy MC is bossing it up.
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Australia18228 Posts
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On February 08 2012 19:59 Active.815 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 08 2012 19:55 Seraphone wrote:On February 08 2012 19:50 mvtaylor wrote:On February 08 2012 19:46 Seraphone wrote:On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote:
no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you?
its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it. So when pro Protoss players said you can't hold a 1-1-1 were they right? When Protoss said you can't stop Mutas in ZvP were they right? When Terran said you couldn't stop Infestor/BroodLord were they right? When Zerg said you couldn't stop the Protoss deathball were they right? Pro's always whine about balance they have a long, long history in this game of calling strategies broken and crying/whining about the game when the same strats were later just figured out when players played vs them more. And then shit gets patched. For what it's worth 1/1/1 is still damn effective against P even after patches, Destiny managed to knock Mana and HasuObs out of IPL TAC with mass muta despite winning $700 in his SC2 career and Blizzard introducing a new unit in HotS specifically to deal with muta. Thorzain got destroyed by Stephano's late game ZvT Infestor / Broodlord earlier this month despite killing Stephano's Hive during the game. Simply check the Shoutcraft Invitational final game 1. I'll give you one though, ZvP late game is now pretty Z favoured baring archon toilet. So because the strats still work they're imbalanced? The point was pro players would regularly consider these builds unbeatable but they got figured out and now they're just one of many solid strats than sometimes win and sometimes don't. Uh, they were considered unbeatable and they got nerfed, albeit indirectly sometimes (main thing that comes to mind is fungal buff that almost completely killed deathballing).
Deathball has as much to do with players using Brood Lords (i.e not let stalkers blink under them) and realising you can attack before the Protoss gets 3/4 bases and that Hydras aren't that good.
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EPT
2 
4 
sounds like a good representation of GSL.
