On February 08 2012 20:17 Hassybaby wrote: I've seen this map a LOT, as we all have, and this has been bothering me for so long
Where would Roshan be?
Just under JJakji's main possibly near the watch tower. Now where would the shops be?
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base!
JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly.
He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave
Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time
On February 08 2012 20:12 WigglingSquid wrote: Poor GanZi. Just dying to every small early or mid-game timing in this group...
On February 08 2012 20:12 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:09 WigglingSquid wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:02 Xarles wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:45 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote: no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you? its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it.
Remember the people who are responding to you are the 2% of the people reading and the other 98% enjoy reading your posts. So please dont let the haters get to you! Morrow hwaiting!
Agreed. Not to mention that he gives proper reasoning towards his opinions as opposed to someone like IdrA. I'll take that over an attention seeking no-name whiner any day.
The problem is that pros play their game twelve hours a day, but communicate very little about it with people who are not on their par. They walk in a forum, scribble two sentences without any reasoning or explanation whatsoever and complain when users disrespect their opinion, expecting everyone to merely bow to their experience out of sheer faith. I respect their opinion, and I agree that the TL forums can be a dangerous place for their peace of mind, but even if they don't feel like taking their time to explain they could avoid bashing just by being more subtle with their balance whine. (Nothing exotic. Just add "in the current metagame" to every complaint and no one will be able to tell it off as easily.)
I think MorroW very obviously put forward his case as to why a build shouldn't allow you to get ahead both economically and in army.
Yes, but he did so after his first post; anyway, I was not talking about MorroW specifically, but of the pros' general attitude. I will take their opinion as almost granted in most cases, but if they go to the length of being arrogant I will be much less adamant about defending them.
No he didn't. What the hell man. he explained perfectly well why this strat is imabalanced. Just because you can't grasp this simple concept doesn't mean that he didn't explain it, it just means that you simply don't understand what he's talking about. which is a problem on your end not his. If you don't understand the game, then don't discuss it. sick of noobs complaining about people who "dont explain it well enough" this isn't pre-school dude, if you dont understand it you simply dont know enough about SC2 or RTS games in general.
I am not an idiot. I might have missed his true first post, or you might have. Please refrain from jumping on the offense before considering other options.
Wait? So you have missed his first post? Then simply don't claim he didn't explain it if you have missed his post. That's pretty much your fault and not his or mine or anyone else's. you can't just read 1 post and then assume it's the first post in the thread made by that specific poster, that's nonsense and illogical.
It isn't your job to bitch about imbalance, It is your job to show amazing games and work out ways to beat it.
Instead of sitting on this forum and explaining why it's impossible, how about you practice your ass off and become an innovator.
I lose respect for every single pro i see do this...
Don't you even feel the least bit of shame saying this? I am not going to discuss why your comment is plain dumb (more work =/ results if there is a racial imbalance, gimmicky strat. Think of the early 1-1-1 days and all the protoss pro gamer JUSTIFIED tears)
I am just saying that comments like this should be flamed by the rest of the community. A pro does not have "immunity" to comments from us, it's just... you are flaming someone in codeA level for not being good enough. Who the fuck are you to do that, sir?
The fuck? When did i say anything about Morrow specifically? He is a great player who i completely respect. When did i say he wasn't good enough?
If you have trouble with a race, a strategy, ANYTHING, practice and innovate. Don't bitch about imbalance. That is the point i'm making.
That's a bullshit argument.So if something is obviously imbalanced you are not allowed to complain so it does get nerfed..... THE FUCK?
ForGG v MC, ForGG gets a really quick third CC then just overruns MC with mass units.
T so imba, how can they get a third base so fast and just sit behind bunkers
Protoss has to blindly mass gateway all-in to win.
Difference?
How about TvZ reactor expand versus zerg into quick third, unless zerg all-ins it definitely feels like they are behind.
Pretty much. We should all know by now that listening to a pro player talk about balance is silly. I mean Nestea is a well known balance whiner and he has 3 GSL titles.
Nestea "Zerg is the weakest race" MVP "Terran is definitely the weakest race" MC "Protoss is the weakest race but I'm imba so it's ok"
I dont....
>.>
actually seem to remember MVP saying that?
He said it a while ago when the maps became larger and made early terran pushes much weaker.
Yeah you and 3 other people say this now so i believe it.
there you go he also said it in an interview before WCG (lol)
On February 08 2012 20:17 Hassybaby wrote: I've seen this map a LOT, as we all have, and this has been bothering me for so long
Where would Roshan be?
Just under JJakji's main possibly near the watch tower. Now where would the shops be?
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base!
JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly.
He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave
Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time
oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL
On February 08 2012 20:17 Hassybaby wrote: I've seen this map a LOT, as we all have, and this has been bothering me for so long
Where would Roshan be?
Just under JJakji's main possibly near the watch tower. Now where would the shops be?
But that would mean one of the secret hops would basically be in Jjakji's base, and the other sort of where the north gas geyser is on the base north of Ganzi's main
How is that fair? Jjakji so has this since he can buy himself a Reaver in his base!
JJakji won the first game giving him the advantage clearly.
He had the Dazzle-medivac on his side. Damn that shallow grave
Medivacs are more like nature's attendance than dazzle's heal. More over time than instant also they don't kill everything at the same time
oh thanks for the idea ulti = medivac heal, maxed hp to you and other heroes around you... or drop/blink oO LOL
On February 08 2012 20:12 WigglingSquid wrote: Poor GanZi. Just dying to every small early or mid-game timing in this group...
On February 08 2012 20:12 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:09 WigglingSquid wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:02 Xarles wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:45 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote: no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you? its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it.
Remember the people who are responding to you are the 2% of the people reading and the other 98% enjoy reading your posts. So please dont let the haters get to you! Morrow hwaiting!
Agreed. Not to mention that he gives proper reasoning towards his opinions as opposed to someone like IdrA. I'll take that over an attention seeking no-name whiner any day.
The problem is that pros play their game twelve hours a day, but communicate very little about it with people who are not on their par. They walk in a forum, scribble two sentences without any reasoning or explanation whatsoever and complain when users disrespect their opinion, expecting everyone to merely bow to their experience out of sheer faith. I respect their opinion, and I agree that the TL forums can be a dangerous place for their peace of mind, but even if they don't feel like taking their time to explain they could avoid bashing just by being more subtle with their balance whine. (Nothing exotic. Just add "in the current metagame" to every complaint and no one will be able to tell it off as easily.)
I think MorroW very obviously put forward his case as to why a build shouldn't allow you to get ahead both economically and in army.
Yes, but he did so after his first post; anyway, I was not talking about MorroW specifically, but of the pros' general attitude. I will take their opinion as almost granted in most cases, but if they go to the length of being arrogant I will be much less adamant about defending them.
No he didn't. What the hell man. he explained perfectly well why this strat is imabalanced. Just because you can't grasp this simple concept doesn't mean that he didn't explain it, it just means that you simply don't understand what he's talking about. which is a problem on your end not his. If you don't understand the game, then don't discuss it. sick of noobs complaining about people who "dont explain it well enough" this isn't pre-school dude, if you dont understand it you simply dont know enough about SC2 or RTS games in general.
I am not an idiot. I might have missed his true first post, or you might have. Please refrain from jumping on the offense before considering other options.
Wait? So you have missed his first post? Then simply don't claim he didn't explain it if you have missed his post. That's pretty much your fault and not his or mine or anyone else's. you can't just read 1 post and then assume it's the first post in the thread made by that specific poster, that's nonsense and illogical.
Apparently, you missed his first post as I showed in my previous post; but yes, keep flamebaiting me. I am done.
On February 08 2012 20:12 WigglingSquid wrote: Poor GanZi. Just dying to every small early or mid-game timing in this group...
On February 08 2012 20:12 mvtaylor wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:09 WigglingSquid wrote:
On February 08 2012 20:02 Xarles wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:45 Mr_Wo_Ot wrote:
On February 08 2012 19:39 MorroW wrote: no pro players want to give feedback or post in these forums because not its not always what you want to hear. and then you all come bashing
daybreak and metropolis are too long distances to punish something like this
you cant give the 15cc argument because 1rax expo gives a weaker followup than 15cc. thats why people go 15cc rofl, because the econ kicks in more quickly. then you get you extra raxes and geysers more quickly. you dont understand basic rts or tvp build.
toss scouts 15cc, grabs 2 nexuses, then goes onwards to not barely be able to defend, nope, he goes on to almost go kill protoss that was constantly building units on 2bases
you guys should realize me being in this game 12 hours a day for over a year knowing and talking to almost all pros plus practicing these gsl maps regularly, dont you think i should know the timings and find the flaws better than you? its silly some tosses just come at me here just because they are defending their race
if you want feedback and pros opinions, the good and bad comes in a pack. im not gonna sit here and obliviously say "great timing on that 2base protoss" every time we watch gsl. please realize they can play macro oriented, they dont have to play like this. but they almost play like this exclusively because its more easy and they are more successful with it.
Remember the people who are responding to you are the 2% of the people reading and the other 98% enjoy reading your posts. So please dont let the haters get to you! Morrow hwaiting!
Agreed. Not to mention that he gives proper reasoning towards his opinions as opposed to someone like IdrA. I'll take that over an attention seeking no-name whiner any day.
The problem is that pros play their game twelve hours a day, but communicate very little about it with people who are not on their par. They walk in a forum, scribble two sentences without any reasoning or explanation whatsoever and complain when users disrespect their opinion, expecting everyone to merely bow to their experience out of sheer faith. I respect their opinion, and I agree that the TL forums can be a dangerous place for their peace of mind, but even if they don't feel like taking their time to explain they could avoid bashing just by being more subtle with their balance whine. (Nothing exotic. Just add "in the current metagame" to every complaint and no one will be able to tell it off as easily.)
I think MorroW very obviously put forward his case as to why a build shouldn't allow you to get ahead both economically and in army.
Yes, but he did so after his first post; anyway, I was not talking about MorroW specifically, but of the pros' general attitude. I will take their opinion as almost granted in most cases, but if they go to the length of being arrogant I will be much less adamant about defending them.
No he didn't. What the hell man. he explained perfectly well why this strat is imabalanced. Just because you can't grasp this simple concept doesn't mean that he didn't explain it, it just means that you simply don't understand what he's talking about. which is a problem on your end not his. If you don't understand the game, then don't discuss it. sick of noobs complaining about people who "dont explain it well enough" this isn't pre-school dude, if you dont understand it you simply dont know enough about SC2 or RTS games in general.
I am not an idiot. I might have missed his true first post, or you might have. Please refrain from jumping on the offense before considering other options.
And here it is. You are quite wrong, because this does not explain absolutely anything:
just look at this, toss takes 3base and can just go and kill terran who sits defensive on 2base and gets bunkers
if you dont see the problem in this and why its abusive and obviously too strong i dont know what to say
you talk about mc doing this best in the world and thats why it only works for him. well in reality most tosses play like this, vs zerg and terran and most tosses are very successful. thats why they are doing this. and no its not hard to do, its pretty easy in fact to execute. anyone who understands rts and sc2 on a deep level would agree with me, no evidence is needed to "prove" that this is not that hard to do that only MC in the world can be successful with it
Yes, it does? You can take 3 base get an economic advantage and kill the terran at the same time without being "all-in" even if he has bunkers up which is pretty much imbalanced by definition lol. Just like Morrow said. How can you possibly argue that this is balanced? this goes against the very nature of rts games.
EPT
Ganzi
