• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 15:37
CET 21:37
KST 05:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Rongyi Cup S3 - RO16 Preview3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational10SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)20Weekly Cups (Dec 29-Jan 4): Protoss rolls, 2v2 returns7
StarCraft 2
General
StarCraft 2 not at the Esports World Cup 2026 [Short Story] The Last GSL Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Stellar Fest "01" Jersey Charity Auction PhD study /w SC2 - help with a survey!
Tourneys
$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open! SC2 All-Star Invitational: Jan 17-18 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night Mutation # 507 Well Trained Mutation # 506 Warp Zone
Brood War
General
[ASL21] Potential Map Candidates BW General Discussion Gypsy to Korea Which foreign pros are considered the best? BW AKA finder tool
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 Small VOD Thread 2.0 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2 Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Awesome Games Done Quick 2026!
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread NASA and the Private Sector Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Esports Advertising Shap…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1340 users

[IPL TAC] Quantic IM vs. Team Liquid (Day 4) - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
MildSeven
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada311 Posts
December 07 2011 19:37 GMT
#21
I thought IM and quantic split
RageCommodore
Profile Joined September 2011
Germany912 Posts
December 07 2011 19:39 GMT
#22
Banjo all-kill incoming
BW: sGs.sTaRfaLL SC2: MarojiN | fan of: Darkforce, DBS, Last, Mvp, BoguS/InnoVatioN | Executer vs Choosy on Gladiator - Never forget T-T
SniXSniPe
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States1938 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-07 19:43:50
December 07 2011 19:39 GMT
#23
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.



MVP
2-1 Haypro
2-0 Hero
2-1 Hero

NesTea
1-2 Haypro
2-0 Sheth


Losira
2-0 Hero
2-1 Haypro
2-0 TLO
Looks to me like Hero's PvZ is beatable.


NesTea lost to Haypro yes. NesTea also had to climb through the open bracket, no? Pretty sure that was his first experience at a grueling lan event.

And really? Happy and MVP are definitely the favorites against any Zerg the TL Roster. Happy has a 88% (15-2) winrate against GSL level Zergs, while MVP is... MVP. You point out Haypro beating NesTea, but I could point out he's lost to far less superior players than NesTea, while NesTea still is 25-2 (ZvZ) in the GSL/Korea TLPD, so that doesn't exactly mean he is still on the same level as NesTea.

Last I saw, Ret lost to ThorZaiN 2-1 and Puma 2-0, and I'm pretty sure those two are not above MVP/Happy in skill level.

Seriously, if there was a clanwar of those 4 players (plus maybe Yong or Seed) vs TL, you would have a 99% chance of IM winning. There's a difference between a GSL Code S finalist and someone who gets knocked out in the first two rounds of Code A.
Noev
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
United States1105 Posts
December 07 2011 19:40 GMT
#24
On December 08 2011 04:37 MildSeven wrote:
I thought IM and quantic split


Its the second post of the first page, they agreed to enter the event as one team and are planning on honoring this arrangement for this tournament.

Gogo TL is going to put up one hell of a fight hope they can take this, either way its going to be a good series.
Leifish
Profile Joined July 2011
851 Posts
December 07 2011 19:41 GMT
#25
TL going to get owned.

Hoping for Hero vs. Mvp though. Also for NesTea or Mvp obliterating Haypro in a manner meant to be.
MuK_x
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
743 Posts
December 07 2011 19:47 GMT
#26
On December 08 2011 04:39 SniXSniPe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.



MVP
2-1 Haypro
2-0 Hero
2-1 Hero

NesTea
1-2 Haypro
2-0 Sheth


Losira
2-0 Hero
2-1 Haypro
2-0 TLO
Looks to me like Hero's PvZ is beatable.


NesTea lost to Haypro yes. NesTea also had to climb through the open bracket, no? Pretty sure that was his first experience at a grueling lan event.

And really? Happy and MVP are definitely the favorites against any Zerg the TL Roster. Happy has a 88% (15-2) winrate against GSL level Zergs, while MVP is... MVP. You point out Haypro beating NesTea, but I could point out he's lost to far less superior players than NesTea, while NesTea still is 25-2 (ZvZ) in the GSL/Korea TLPD, so that doesn't exactly mean he is still on the same level as NesTea.

Last I saw, Ret lost to ThorZaiN 2-1 and Puma 2-0, and I'm pretty sure those two are not above MVP/Happy in skill level.

Seriously, if there was a clanwar of those 4 players (plus maybe Yong or Seed) vs TL, you would have a 99% chance of IM winning. There's a difference between a GSL Code S finalist and someone who gets knocked out in the first two rounds of Code A.

MVPTAiLS beat NesTea and MVP in GSTL.

NaNiWa beat MVP and NesTea at MLG Inv.

They are knocked out in first two round of code A,you know right?
IdrA "TT1 actually fucked up and didn't see the hatchery,so im at a really big advantage right now,assuming he reacts intelligently which is not something you should assume with TT1"
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 07 2011 19:57 GMT
#27
This will be very entertaining. I cannot see IM losing unless they decide to really mess around. Liquid is good, but that's compared to foreign teams. Even Destiny could realistically take games off of half of Liquid's roster. I like TL and what they do for the community, but let's not delude ourselves.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
December 07 2011 20:19 GMT
#28
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.


We can do this all day, the fact of the matter is only one team has 7 GSL titles among its members.
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
December 07 2011 20:23 GMT
#29
On December 08 2011 05:19 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.


We can do this all day, the fact of the matter is only one team has 7 GSL titles among its members.
.......what team has 7 GSL Titles? MVP and NesTea have 3 a piece chief.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
December 07 2011 20:24 GMT
#30
On December 08 2011 05:19 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.


We can do this all day, the fact of the matter is only one team has 7 GSL titles among its members.


Don't you mean 6 GSL titles? But I totally agree with you there. Liquid has almost no chance of winning.
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
AskJoshy
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States1625 Posts
December 07 2011 20:27 GMT
#31
LosirA has a Code A championship. Hehe.
Heroes, Hearthstone, and SC2 videos: http://www.youtube.com/AskJoshy
Shellshock
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States97276 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-07 20:28:19
December 07 2011 20:27 GMT
#32
On December 08 2011 05:23 VirgilSC2 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 05:19 s4life wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.


We can do this all day, the fact of the matter is only one team has 7 GSL titles among its members.
.......what team has 7 GSL Titles? MVP and NesTea have 3 a piece chief.

He might be counting Losira's code A title

Edit: JoshSuth beat me to it >
Moderatorhttp://i.imgur.com/U4xwqmD.png
TL+ Member
chosenkerrigan
Profile Joined May 2011
858 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-07 20:34:32
December 07 2011 20:30 GMT
#33
On December 08 2011 04:13 MuK_x wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




So what?

HayprO beat NesTea at providence and almost beat MVP.

If you think NesTea and LosirA problem for TL,you must watch HerO's PvZ games or Zenio ZvZ games.

Happy? hehe give him Ret. Jinro has really good TvT as well. Sheth ZvT is improved a lot(Sheth vs PuMa,must watch games).

and MVP? Ret wants Terran blood.


......as much as I appreciate HerO's pvz, I would bet my money on losira every day.
And ret against MVP...? Seriously? I don't care how much he wants terran blood but he'll be dominated.
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
December 07 2011 20:35 GMT
#34
Doesn't matter what team QIM puts up, Banjo all-kill for sure.

On a sillier note, TL will have a hard time if IM puts up a big gun (we're not going to see Nestea/MVP, guys but if Happy shows up it's crying time), it's going to be a bit hard. Definitely a good chance though, and I actually predict a pretty close (5-3 or 5-4) TL-win unless a big name from IM descends onto the battlefield to annihilate everything.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
aphorism
Profile Joined February 2011
United States226 Posts
December 07 2011 20:35 GMT
#35
HayprO reverse all kill. Calling it right now.
Joshy.IGN
Profile Joined May 2011
United States530 Posts
December 07 2011 20:39 GMT
#36
I am thoroughly enjoying all of these predictions, as are the rest of the guys in the eSports office. Keep them coming! Surely if we make enough predictions, someone will get it exactly right and look like a GENIUS!
IGN eSports Community Marketing Manager || http://www.ign.com/ipl
VirgilSC2
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States6151 Posts
December 07 2011 20:40 GMT
#37
On December 08 2011 05:39 Joshy.IGN wrote:
I am thoroughly enjoying all of these predictions, as are the rest of the guys in the eSports office. Keep them coming! Surely if we make enough predictions, someone will get it exactly right and look like a GENIUS!

I'm going to put my eggs in the Tyler HerO all-kill basket.
Clarity Gaming #1 Fan | Avid MTG Grinder | @VirgilSC2
Odoakar
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia1837 Posts
December 07 2011 20:41 GMT
#38
Nestea and mvp won't play for certain. I would say these will be QIM picks:

Happy
Seed
LosirA
Junwi
Catatonic
Profile Joined August 2011
United States699 Posts
December 07 2011 20:43 GMT
#39
On December 08 2011 03:46 MuK_x wrote:
QIM? who?

TL 5-0 ezpz.

banjo all kill QIM's like in MLG.

Yea thought I saw MVP, NesTea, Losira, and Destiny under team QIM so yea funny joke bud we appreciate it I find it hard to believe anyone would go undefeated with those 4 players on the opposing team lol
T: DeMuslim SeleCT. P: Naniwa Genius. Z: IdrA Destiny Team: EG
hysterial
Profile Joined April 2011
United States2044 Posts
December 07 2011 20:46 GMT
#40
On December 08 2011 04:08 SniXSniPe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 08 2011 04:04 MuK_x wrote:
On December 08 2011 03:53 JustPassingBy wrote:
Depends mainly, if not only, on which players of IM we will see in action.
Would be surprised if QxG could pull a win against liquid on their own and
I would be surprised if liquid stands a change against IM.

what?

TL has a really decent roster.I mean they has a chance against every sc2 team in the world.

2 decent Korean
Gorilla terran
Manner zerg
King of the Drones
Insanely good sense of fashion
ChillToss
and a Banjo

how can you say this guys not stands a chance against IM?


MVP, NesTea, Losira, Happy?




Yup, nuff said tbh.
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 31 32 33 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Big Brain Bouts
17:00
#104
Serral vs MaxPaxLIVE!
RotterdaM1867
IndyStarCraft 391
TKL 336
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1867
IndyStarCraft 391
TKL 336
UpATreeSC 146
ProTech145
Nathanias 6
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2687
EffOrt 297
Shuttle 194
Dewaltoss 146
BeSt 88
ggaemo 70
910 29
NaDa 7
Dota 2
420jenkins936
BananaSlamJamma206
syndereN202
Counter-Strike
fl0m3344
Fnx 853
byalli408
SPUNJ237
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King45
Heroes of the Storm
Liquid`Hasu582
Other Games
gofns12663
Grubby2486
FrodaN1073
Beastyqt743
mouzStarbuck187
DeMusliM111
KnowMe97
QueenE83
Livibee54
ZombieGrub17
Chillindude10
Organizations
StarCraft 2
angryscii 24
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 49
• intothetv
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Laughngamez YouTube
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Nemesis2346
• TFBlade1543
Other Games
• imaqtpie1570
• Shiphtur217
Upcoming Events
RongYI Cup
14h 23m
SHIN vs Creator
Classic vs Percival
OSC
16h 23m
BSL 21
18h 23m
RongYI Cup
1d 14h
Maru vs Cyan
Solar vs Krystianer
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1d 15h
BSL 21
1d 18h
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
OSC
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
[ Show More ]
WardiTV Invitational
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-20
OSC Championship Season 13
NA Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Rongyi Cup S3
Underdog Cup #3
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025

Upcoming

Acropolis #4 - TS4
Escore Tournament S1: W6
Escore Tournament S1: W7
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
Tektek Cup #1
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.