SuperNoVa vs MarineKing Genius vs Life SuperNoVa vs NesTea MarineKing vs Genius Life vs NesTea SuperNoVa vs Genius MarineKing vs Life Genius vs NesTea SuperNoVa vs Life MarineKing vs NesTea
Moletrap was having mic problems which I had absolutely no problems with... I thought it was me and I turned the volume way up and holy god the new caster was loud.
Nestea usually doesn't give a shit about online stuff.
Supernova and Life are my predictions. Also, I am happy that it looks like GOM fixed their problem from last night. The results from some of the players' games were leaked on their Battle.net account and the maps that they played on.
Predicting either Supernova, MarineKing or Life/Nestea to make it through. NesTea treats playing in online tournaments like playing ladder so i'm pretty sure he's gonna lose.
Not sure Khaldor goes well with Moletrap. Really like Khaldor, and i don't mind Moletrap, but in the future i hope it is Doa/Moletrap and Wolf/Khaldor or something like that...
On November 04 2011 15:34 Fearest wrote: MKP is looking worst and worst everytime I see him play. He seriously need to adapt or be left behind
Both this and the mvp game were build order losses to this cheese. Not really a reflection of his play. The alive game was awful though, I'll grant you that.
On November 04 2011 15:35 Noktix wrote: Not sure Khaldor goes well with Moletrap. Really like Khaldor, and i don't mind Moletrap, but in the future i hope it is Doa/Moletrap and Wolf/Khaldor or something like that...
Doa and khaldor worked fairly well last time, i think that would be the best one from all three. Wolf and Khaldor... i don't know, don't think so.
On November 04 2011 15:36 Dodgin wrote: Can someone re-cap what happened in that game? I missed it. Just a brief explanation so I understand the comments about MKP looking bad.
Supernova made proxy rax with mauraders exactly like mvp. MKP was going hellions and had a barracks making a reactor so when the first maurader came, he had 1 marine to defend. GG pretty much from that point.
On November 04 2011 15:36 Dodgin wrote: Can someone re-cap what happened in that game? I missed it. Just a brief explanation so I understand the comments about MKP looking bad.
On November 04 2011 15:35 Noktix wrote: Not sure Khaldor goes well with Moletrap. Really like Khaldor, and i don't mind Moletrap, but in the future i hope it is Doa/Moletrap and Wolf/Khaldor or something like that...
Give it time, let them get used to each other and see how it goes. Tastosis wasn't that great at first either. Not saying they'll be great together at some point, but this is their first game casting together (I think).
On November 04 2011 15:36 Dodgin wrote: Can someone re-cap what happened in that game? I missed it. Just a brief explanation so I understand the comments about MKP looking bad.
Supernova made proxy rax with mauraders exactly like mvp. MKP was going hellions and had a barracks making a reactor so when the first maurader came, he had 1 marine to defend. GG pretty much from that point.
Khaldor OMG.... im suprised how good his english is compare to the last time i watch him on his stream :O.... i was mistaking it with australian english before i knew that was him...
I love how Khaldor's voice is this sonata of speaking as his voice steadily rises in pitch and crescendos in excitement until a great climax of tension and then decrescendos just as steadily to a perfect cadence to his beautiful phrases of casting.
Supernova playing quite well today. Nestea also playing quite resiliently, but Supernova is too much.
On November 04 2011 16:01 Beakerbite wrote: Terran has so many one point wonders. One viking, one banshee, and one medivac, ect. WTF could Nestea even do?
you're right, terran is unbeatable, nestea should just switch races.
On November 04 2011 16:00 HwangjaeTerran wrote: Seems like people don't know their shit. I bet on supernova/nestea to get out of the group. I think it's going to happen.
Same. Supernova has been playing really well lately.
On November 04 2011 16:01 Beakerbite wrote: Terran has so many one point wonders. One viking, one banshee, and one medivac, ect. WTF could Nestea even do?
Not go fast infestors. Get a baneling nest and a spire?
On November 04 2011 15:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Supernova is playing so much better more recently
he's cheesing...
still better than losing
yes but it seems silly to consider that as "playing better"
it's not like you can just do a cheese build and automatically win, especially against somebody like nestea. you still have to execute it, which he did very well
On November 04 2011 16:01 Beakerbite wrote: Terran has so many one point wonders. One viking, one banshee, and one medivac, ect. WTF could Nestea even do?
Not go fast infestors. Get a baneling nest and a spire?
I don't think fast spire would have been a good choice. Muta doesn't pack enough punch in the low numbers he would have had. I agree banes would have been good but if supernova was on his game he would have targeted them.
Harassing that well and hitting that strong of a timing requires really good multitasking. Most players would have missed the timing due to macro slip-ups or not done enough damage with the harassment. Give credit to Supernova where it's due.
On November 04 2011 15:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Supernova is playing so much better more recently
he's cheesing...
still better than losing
He seen a flaw in Nestea's build and took advantage.
had the marine not gotten into the bunker the game would have been completely different, and nesteas drone micro was top notch, only sick luck got that rine into the bunker.
On November 04 2011 16:09 ZenithM wrote: That's so weird how Terran get much more supply faster if both T and P are left untouched. And this is with less workers too.
On November 04 2011 16:09 ZenithM wrote: That's so weird how Terran get much more supply faster if both T and P are left untouched. And this is with less workers too.
low tech units with faster expansion are enough to do this. dont know whats wrong with hat
I quite like Khlador and Im not religious but he should probably watch the "jesus christs" a bit since I could see it offending quite a few people. Better to play it safe
On November 04 2011 15:59 Shellshock1122 wrote: Supernova is playing so much better more recently
he's cheesing...
still better than losing
He seen a flaw in Nestea's build and took advantage.
had the marine not gotten into the bunker the game would have been completely different, and nesteas drone micro was top notch, only sick luck got that rine into the bunker.
If only rines got birthed out of eqqs and you could pre-surround them
On November 04 2011 16:12 Azzur wrote: LOL, herp derp a-move protoss into a fortified position containing a xel-naga tower as well!
Almost every single post you do has something to say about how Terran is a much harder race and everyone else sucks. It's getting annoying. Genius attacked when the tanks were unseiged and right when Genius went to attack the ghosts walked in at perfect timing and EMPed everything. That was not A-moving ( Immortals were focusing tanks, ffs, guardian shields, ect....). Also don't use stupid internet memes please.
On November 04 2011 16:09 ZenithM wrote: That's so weird how Terran get much more supply faster if both T and P are left untouched. And this is with less workers too.
Why would it be weird? Terran supply is cheaper.
Not that much cheaper, it can't explain a difference of like 30 supply. With less workers. Marines are the same cost as zealots, medivacs, ghosts, and tanks are expensive units. I think that unfortunately you need to pressure terran, a bit like zerg, except that they are very few ways and timings where you can do it. You can't let them double muling their heart out man.
On November 04 2011 16:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: We should all be mad at Nestea now right?
No because Nestea actually decided to do this based on the hatch first. The early pool is a small disadvantage if the other player doesn't go hatch first but Nestea has already proved vs Losira that he can go 10 pool vs 14/14 and still win in a macro game.
for what it's worth, it's not a blind all-in, he drone scouts, and if they went pool first he doesn't pull drones. he did that build twice against losira
On November 04 2011 16:12 Azzur wrote: LOL, herp derp a-move protoss into a fortified position containing a xel-naga tower as well!
Almost every single post you do has something to say about how Terran is a much harder race and everyone else sucks. It's getting annoying. Genius attacked when the tanks were unseiged and right when Genius went to attack the ghosts walked in at perfect timing and EMPed everything. That was not A-moving ( Immortals were focusing tanks, ffs, guardian shields, ect....). Also don't use stupid internet memes please.
I agree with your point. They need to make Terran easier.
On November 04 2011 16:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: We should all be mad at Nestea now right?
No because Nestea actually decided to do this based on the hatch first. The early pool is a small disadvantage if the other player doesn't go hatch first but Nestea has already proved vs Losira that he can go 10 pool vs 14/14 and still win in a macro game.
On November 04 2011 16:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: We should all be mad at Nestea now right?
No because Nestea actually decided to do this based on the hatch first. The early pool is a small disadvantage if the other player doesn't go hatch first but Nestea has already proved vs Losira that he can go 10 pool vs 14/14 and still win in a macro game.
Nestea went for what was actually a fairly safe build on that map (given the distance), a 10 pool will allow a 6 pool defense pretty easy. Saw hatch first, knew he could win right then, went for it. If you have a huge opening to win, you take it.
On November 04 2011 16:12 Azzur wrote: LOL, herp derp a-move protoss into a fortified position containing a xel-naga tower as well!
Almost every single post you do has something to say about how Terran is a much harder race and everyone else sucks. It's getting annoying. Genius attacked when the tanks were unseiged and right when Genius went to attack the ghosts walked in at perfect timing and EMPed everything. That was not A-moving ( Immortals were focusing tanks, ffs, guardian shields, ect....). Also don't use stupid internet memes please.
I agree with your point. They need to make Terran easier.
How was that my point? That has nothing to do with my post.
Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
On November 04 2011 16:14 Shellshock1122 wrote: We should all be mad at Nestea now right?
No because Nestea actually decided to do this based on the hatch first. The early pool is a small disadvantage if the other player doesn't go hatch first but Nestea has already proved vs Losira that he can go 10 pool vs 14/14 and still win in a macro game.
right, and building one rax not in base means you're terribly dead as terran.
On November 04 2011 16:17 red4ce wrote: I think Nestea did this to Losira in one of the games in their GSL final. Game 3 or 4 I think.
No it was 4-0. That was the same season NesTea went undefeated.
Nestea did it twice. On dual sight losira went 14/14, so Nestea didn't go all-in; instead he turned it into a longer game, played from a disadvantage, and won after making 5 overseers. In the last game, losira went hatch first, so nestea just went all-in and immediately won.
I'm not one of those racist people who think asians all look the same, but I can't for the life of me tell whether this is a 3 girl group or just the same girl edited into the video 3 times.
On November 04 2011 16:17 TearsOfTheSun wrote: im sorry if this has already been asked but how come these are replays and not live?
Because it's easier to work with player schedule this way. And since the Group A games where at the time of the casting only a few hours old these games were probably played on the same day as casted. Just not live so that they don't have to deal with going into each game and waiting for each player to be ready.
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
On November 04 2011 16:16 Telcontar wrote: Definitely not a build order loss.
If you hatch first then you better be prepared to hold off early pool. Plus, building gas and drones before pool after hatch first is just asking to lose.
On November 04 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote: I'm not one of those racist people who think asians all look the same, but I can't for the life of me tell whether this is a 3 girl group or just the same girl edited into the video 3 times.
well korea is well known for plastic surgery....... so yea maybe that's why they all look the same
On November 04 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote: I'm not one of those racist people who think asians all look the same, but I can't for the life of me tell whether this is a 3 girl group or just the same girl edited into the video 3 times.
I'm pretty sure that was the same girl 3 times. They looked identical. >_<
On November 04 2011 16:21 red4ce wrote: I'm not one of those racist people who think asians all look the same, but I can't for the life of me tell whether this is a 3 girl group or just the same girl edited into the video 3 times.
"I dont think all asians look the same but all these asians look the same"
On November 04 2011 16:16 Telcontar wrote: Definitely not a build order loss.
If you hatch first then you better be prepared to hold off early pool. Plus, building gas and drones before pool after hatch first is just asking to lose.
And we've seen many instances where hatch firsting players hold off ling/drone rush pretty comfortably. All it takes is know-how and decent micro to pull it off.
On November 04 2011 16:22 Taf the Ghost wrote: Is the Kpop's lipsync off?
Well you always lipsync in music videos.
The base audio sync to the video is off, is what I was implying. As the casters are never on screen, we can't see their audio sync. Which means it's time to Tweet John!
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
I can't stop laughing at 2:13 to 2:18 of that music video. That guy's face XD
Hmmm, I wonder if Genius will look strong or mediocre this game against Supernova. Supernova has been doing well tonight, at least in results. Nevertheless, I am really looking forward to games on this map.
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
I think Nestea cheeses Life because he knows hes the better player and is speeding up the inevitable. Supernova cheeses Nestea because he knows hes the lesser player and won't ever win a macro game.
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
Supernova didn't see an opportunity his build was blind. Nestea didn't even hatch first vs SC so you can't even say he was going off his usual build. Nestea would not have pulled the drones if Life didn't hatch first there was a reason for the early drone scout.
As I live and breathe KPOP HATERS EVERYWHERE. Get out! Okay seriously, Nestea cheesed Line and that's that. Was it a shitty move? Yah. Did he win? yah. Do I love Nestea any less? Nah.
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
The big difference is that if the bunker didn't finish than supernova wouldn't have been too far behind. He would lose some minerals and some production time while the barracks flys back home, but a failed proxy rax isn't game ending for a terran, unlike an all-in from toss or zerg without significant damage done.
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
Supernova didn't see an opportunity his build was blind. Nestea didn't even hatch first vs SC so you can't even say he was going off his usual build. Nestea would not have pulled the drones if Life didn't hatch first there was a reason for the early drone scout.
He saw that he did a lot of damage with his initial 1raxbunker and went for the kill afterwards. thats how you do it. if you did enough damage early on and it is enough to go for the kill you go for the kill
On November 04 2011 16:19 Tppz! wrote: Now Nestea is a total genius while Supernova ist still the cheesy player ^.^ (sure throwing in this build is clever when you think your opponent will hardcounter your build but tis still cheese like Supernova did with MKP and Nestea)
OMG that music O.o
The difference is if Nestea holds the bunker rush better that is completely game changing. Life going 14/14 wouldn't have changed the game at all since Nestea wouldn't have pulled drones and he has already proven he can win after a 10 pool vs 14/14 scenario vs a better ZvZer than Life.
If Life holds the attack of nestea the game is over. this is a big change too isnt it?
im just saying both saw their opportunity and went for it. sure nestea was a lot better at defending than life in his game vs supernova but its still the same outcome
Supernova didn't see an opportunity his build was blind. Nestea didn't even hatch first vs SC so you can't even say he was going off his usual build. Nestea would not have pulled the drones if Life didn't hatch first there was a reason for the early drone scout.
He saw that he did a lot of damage with his initial 1raxbunker and went for the kill afterwards. thats how you do it. if you did enough damage early on and it is enough to go for the kill you go for the kill
The initial rax build was blind. He had no way of knowing Nestea was going hatch first. Nestea's build vs Life wasn't blind.
lol the problem with code s is that it's so important to the players that they will mostly fool around in tourneys like that, while funny i'd like to see more serious games of many koreans that play like two maps per month atm
lol didn't need any of those missile turrets. All his interceptors died before they even did any damage. Peace out carrier. You will be missed in spirit... but not really in function.
I once had a Protoss turtle into carriers against me online. Pretty much the exact same thing happened when they ran into my marines. Carriers are so bad it's hilarious.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
On November 04 2011 16:37 Azzur wrote: Hilarious game - but a little bit disrespectful to the tournament - I guarantee that genius wouldn't have done something like this in Code S
likely knew he was done for in the group beforehand since the other games were before quite possibly
Stim Marines just kill Interceptors too fast. I think Carriers could be useful if Interceptors had more armor, and Carriers were more microable like Tyler talked about on SOTG.
Edit: Oh, and if getting 2 Vikings at a time wasn't straight in the standard tech of Terran of course. But dealing with Vikings could be fixed by making Carriers more responsive and microable.
Edit 2: And a Carrier constantly chronoed out takes 90 sec to build (120 before chrono), in the same amount of time you can get out 4 Vikings from a single reactored Starport.
On November 04 2011 16:38 fixed_point wrote: Can you imagine being a marine in real life, and instead of running away from a giant alien spaceship you shoot it down? Sounds like a RPG actually
And remember, people can run faster than intergalactic starships.
On November 04 2011 16:37 Lann555 wrote: Why the hell did Genius attack into bunker/turrets? He could have contained Supernova
vikings will destroy carriers
Carriers kill Vikings pretty fast and can't really kite them. Once Vikings reach a critical point they own Carrier yes but before that they aren't that great.
On November 04 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote: They will never fix carriers cause noobs sometimes win by massing them in 4v4. Such a hilariously bad unit lol
They will never fix carriers because they intend to remove it
On November 04 2011 16:42 Tachion wrote: Who was the Protoss who won with a double stargate carrier on Daybreak? What GSL tourny/season was that? It wasn't too long ago.
Probably HongUn. It must be HongUn. Can't be anyone else.
On November 04 2011 16:42 Tachion wrote: Who was the Protoss who won with a double stargate carrier on Daybreak? What GSL tourny/season was that? It wasn't too long ago.
On November 04 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote: They will never fix carriers cause noobs sometimes win by massing them in 4v4. Such a hilariously bad unit lol
sadly thats actually true, they care so much about making this game "balanced" for the bronze leaguers that real balance at the pro level goes right out the door with certain units.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield, you will beat marines/vikings
But interceptors arent in range of the guardian shield, so marines will still destroy them >.<
On November 04 2011 16:37 Lann555 wrote: Why the hell did Genius attack into bunker/turrets? He could have contained Supernova
vikings will destroy carriers
Carriers kill Vikings pretty fast and can't really kite them. Once Vikings reach a critical point they own Carrier yes but before that they aren't that great.
carriers take forever to build. 1 more starport with reactor will easily out mass vikings out. genius only real option was probably to contain n get more bases and upgrades. no way he could have survived attacking in. moreover mmm will wipe those gateway units and so he has to get templar tech or robo. pretty hard game after his carriers gt figured out earlier than he wanted
Loving the gg timing today from Genius and Life. They're leaving the game right when the outcome is decided rather than dragging the game out hoping for a miracle.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
On November 04 2011 16:44 MisterTea wrote: carriers jsut need to start with like 6-7 armour base and they would be totally viable , they should try it on PTR before hots :D
Interceptors also need that armour, otherwise carriers just become 6 armour, 6 food paperweights.
On November 04 2011 16:45 Gijian wrote: wtf. I feel like no one is taking this seriously. That was a fast GG. If this was GSL, Life would probably have fight to the bitter end.
that was the bitter end, all his drones. it was 8 supply to 28 if i see correctly.
On November 04 2011 16:45 Gijian wrote: wtf. I feel like no one is taking this seriously. That was a fast GG. If this was GSL, Life would probably have fight to the bitter end.
He had 8 supply to MKP's 24. MKP also had about 4 marines raining fire on his only queen and natural hatchery with no lings out at all.
On November 04 2011 16:40 Mithridates wrote: They will never fix carriers cause noobs sometimes win by massing them in 4v4. Such a hilariously bad unit lol
sadly thats actually true, they care so much about making this game "balanced" for the bronze leaguers that real balance at the pro level goes right out the door with certain units.
They could have done it in via Micro mechanics, but yeah they really didn't know what to do with them.
They probably should have made Interceptors pierce through armor upgrades, have +2 armor and always stay out (like fly around the carrier).
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield, you will beat marines/vikings
But interceptors arent in range of the guardian shield, so marines will still destroy them >.<
as long as you keep everything pretty balled up, the guardian shield should hit most interceptors (it has a 8range diameter. its not hard to get it to cover most things)
(however this is kinda bad because balled up units means all your sentries get emp'ed and you have no guardian shield)
and the terran cant target the sentries under a giant blob of air units. if the terran wants to counter it he needs splash which is only tanks, which carriers counter anyway. and the EMP is also a viable counter because it can take away sentry energy.
without guardian shield the carriers will lose. and carriers are bad im not saying their good, but their bad because of their buildtime, their battle stats arent all that bad.
carriers alone against marines are bad, but that doesnt mean carriers battle stats are bad because if you have guardian shield its heavy in the tosses favor
They will never fix carriers because they intend to remove it
It was obvious that they sucked at launch and have zero role in the protoss army. Why not fix a useless unit??
Unfixable without completely changing several other units. Corruptors render carriers useless, and marines render carriers useless. Without weakening marines - which would completely change the game - or weakening corruptors (which are only okay anyway), there's no way you can make carriers viable. Make carriers strong enough to beat these two units would likewise unbalance the game irretrievably, as marines are always the backbone of anything but a pure mech army (which doesn't work against Protoss anyway) and Corruptors exist specifically to counter Carriers and Battlecruisers.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
You can't kite Carriers though Vikings will take damage from Carriers no matter what.
On November 04 2011 16:45 Gijian wrote: wtf. I feel like no one is taking this seriously. That was a fast GG. If this was GSL, Life would probably have fight to the bitter end.
I often want the protoss to win, but at this point I want nestea to win, just so we don't have double terran guaranteed to advance. Well, that and nestea is awesome.
On November 04 2011 16:43 ViperPL wrote: Bleh, CheeseKingPrime at work. I hope he doesn't advance.
2 Rax Bunker Rush is a standard build bud.
It's the only build MKP can do vZ, and if it doesn't work he's usually screwed.
he has done a 3barracks 1 factory all in, 3 factory reactor, 2 factory reacter, 14 orbital, 2 barracks all in, 2barracks into fast 2/2 timing attack. 1 barracks expand, gold base reactored marines/maraders/hellions. banshee/hellion attack. and reaper/hellion.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
To be fair, I'm fairly sure 6 BCs and an assorted amount of ground units that aren't siege tanks would lose pretty horribly attacking into 6 missile turrets 2 bunkers and a ton of marines as well. Broodlords being unaffected by the turrets would obviously dominate, but it's not like the Carrier is the only capital ship that would crash and burn in that engagement.
Unfixable without completely changing several other units. Corruptors render carriers useless, and marines render carriers useless. Without weakening marines - which would completely change the game - or weakening corruptors (which are only okay anyway), there's no way you can make carriers viable. Make carriers strong enough to beat these two units would likewise unbalance the game irretrievably, as marines are always the backbone of anything but a pure mech army (which doesn't work against Protoss anyway) and Corruptors exist specifically to counter Carriers and Battlecruisers.
Or u could just buff carriers slightly. PLus armor to help against marines. Im fine with the corruptor-carrier relationship. A 350-250 unit in a dead tech tree with 120 sec buildtime and you have to pay for ammo. A unit like that should be scary as fuck
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
yes i believe it because ive tested it
go into the unit tester and try to fight 50 food of vikings with 50food of carriers.
the vikings cannot one shotting and kiting carriers, because carriers still launch all their incerceptors and every time you one shot a carrier a bunch of vikings die
go test it yourself. vikings lose to carriers in equal food amounts.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
You can't kite Carriers though Vikings will take damage from Carriers no matter what.
Okay last response before I'm done arguing against people who are saying carriers may seem viable. You're trying to tell me that you cant kite carriers which are SLOWER than vikings? You do realize that if you move command carriers all their interceptors go back to the ship. You can focus a carrier down, run away taking minimal damage from the interceptors already out, once you outrun the carrier the interceptors return, that's when you go back and take another shot. Rinse and repeat and you'll have possibly traded a viking for a carrier every time. I understand that the interceptor release range will allow carriers to maybe kill a viking or two, but that is ALWAYS worth the trade when you get to snipe carriers.
That's true roymarthyup but we aren't playing unit tester. We're playing a different game with both players making reinforcements. Vikings are more than half as expensive and can be massed twice as easily. Vikings counter carriers because you will always have more vikings than carriers.
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
yes i believe it because ive tested it
go into the unit tester and try to fight 50 food of vikings with 50food of carriers.
the vikings cannot one shotting and kiting carriers, because carriers still launch all their incerceptors and every time you one shot a carrier a bunch of vikings die
go test it yourself. vikings lose to carriers in equal food amounts.
BUT u can replace vikings faster than u can replace carriers. sc2 isnt just abt how 1 unit dominates another....
thanks Khaldor. ..did not like that comment. i'm a girl and i picked protoss because the warp in mechanic made for interesting strategy not because it's shiny. :/
I wish Genius would go Carriers in this game instead, might be much more entertaining. If he actually managed to get the Carriers out it would be fun. That is of course if Nestea let him do that for whatever reason. O_o
On November 04 2011 16:37 roymarthyup wrote: the carriers arent too bad, but attacking into missile turrets was a huge mistake
the carriers + guardian shield can beat the marines as long as your not engaging turrets and also you need +3 armor against +3 marine attack
no, just stimming marines will kill every single interceptor then the ground army of the toss will melt without splash damage, try it out sometime, carriers will be missed but they just aren't worth it here in sc2.
no. 3/3 marines beat 3/3 carriers
but 3/3 marines lose to 3/3 carriers that have guardian shield
0/0 carriers beat 0/0 vikings
3/3 carriers beat 3/3 vikings
24 food of carriers beats 24food of vikings, any food amount you want carriers win. vikings cannot "kite" carriers, as long as the toss micros and stacks his carriers the vikings cannot pick them off without dying themselves
carriers are bad mainly for their buildtime. that proxy carrier thing is a bad strategy because any aggression comes and you lose because they take forever.
but if you actually get carriers out, and dont engage into a ton of turrets, and support them with guardian shield and have armor upgrades equal to the terrans +attack, you will beat marines/vikings
You really believe that? Get the critical amount of vikings ~8, then start one shotting and kiting carriers, we'll see how all your facts do against that. Putting numbers up like that convinces no one, there's a reason why no one uses carriers and why they are being removed. Just let it go.
yes i believe it because ive tested it
go into the unit tester and try to fight 50 food of vikings with 50food of carriers.
the vikings cannot one shotting and kiting carriers, because carriers still launch all their incerceptors and every time you one shot a carrier a bunch of vikings die
go test it yourself. vikings lose to carriers in equal food amounts.
BUT u can replace vikings faster than u can replace carriers. sc2 isnt just abt how 1 unit dominates another....
which is why i said carriers are bad because of their buildtime, not their battle stats
carriers beat vikings in equal food amounts. vikings cannot "kite" carriers. kiting means you can kill a unit while not being hit by it. marauders can kite zealots, and other than a charge strike the zealots cannot hit the studder stepping marauder
carriers on the other hand have equal range of vikings. carriers can always attack vikings if the vikings are attacking carriers. vikings do not kite carriers, but they beat carriers in superior food numbers which should always happen ingame because carrier buildtime sucks.
(carrier launch range is 8, viking attack range is 9, however vikings require stopping for a split second to fire, during this time a carrier will launch most of its interceptors dealing all of its burst and the interceptors keep attacking up to 14 range. carrier range is listed at 1 less than vikings but their pretty much the same)(and its impossible to micro and kite, even if you have 1 viking against 1 carrier its impossible to micro the viking and shoot the carrier without the carrier being able to shoot back)
Genius pushing with a huge ball with blink stalkers, zealots, and archons... Nesteas counter attack killing a lot of probes but he's still in trouble. Nestea lost his third, while Genius still has his, but workers counts should be pretty low.
Nestea is pretty much dead but Genius isn't handling this as well as he could. Nestea could get lucky and still win if Genius continues to donate random archons and zealots.
How does zerg secure a third on that map? There are alot of paths to counter attack with lings, but small chokes that can be walled with zealots as we saw.
I think the map favours 2 base play as neither player could take a third, which Is better for protoss.
On November 04 2011 17:06 mR.bONG789 wrote: y the fuck did he build corruputors vs 0 air units?
He was expecting Colossus so he built them pre-emptively. Notice he only made like 2 Corruptors and didn't make any more when he realized Genius was staying on Templar/Archon tech.
How does zerg secure a third on that map? There are alot of paths to counter attack with lings, but small chokes that can be walled with zealots as we saw.
I think the map favours 2 base play as neither player could take a third, which Is better for protoss.
Rematch on Taldarim cross positions.
Ist much harder for P to get a third on that map. P two base all in every game on the map. It needs to be fixed in my opinion, Its just overall bad
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
On November 04 2011 17:03 Mithridates wrote: Is it just me or is Nestea playing awful
I think the archons messed him up
I dunno here, when u see nothing but archon/stalker/zealot, you need to go something other than muta ling. archons alone can kill off ling/muta, i think roaches/hydras might have been a better choice. But really the nail in the coffin was nestea not beeing able to get a 3rd, because, well, when u go muta/ling vs archons, guess what, you cant ever attack head to head, therefore, you cannot keep a 3rd base. even though, genius didnt really get a 3rd, he just had a beefy army that countered everything nestea had. GG tho.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
ro8 GSL going 2-3 against MVP and then 2nd place in Blizzcon going 3-4 against MVP is a slump?
On November 04 2011 17:06 mR.bONG789 wrote: y the fuck did he build corruputors vs 0 air units?
He was expecting Colossus so he built them pre-emptively. Notice he only made like 2 Corruptors and didn't make any more when he realized Genius was staying on Templar/Archon tech.
He still had voids out when he made the corruptors, but yes I agree mutas would of been much better at that point.
On November 04 2011 17:08 jalstar wrote: Since Life lost to MKP and NesTea, he's out. Supernova advances, and so does the winner of MKP vs NesTea.
It sounds like there would be a 3 way tie if life wins this, nestea wins his match :o
He would be tied mathmatically but the way they break ties is if the tied players have played each other before, they go off who won them.
Life, MKP, Nestea all tied scores. But Life has lost to both MKP and Nestea, therefore his tied score is meaningless. Now it's between whoever wins between MKP and Nestea. If Nestea wins its tied and Nestea advances because he beat both the tied players. If MKP wins, he broke the tie and clearly advances.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
The "wasn't trying" arguments are getting hilarious lmfao.
So what happens now if nestea beats marineking? Do they have a rematch? yesterday, MVP advancing made a lot of sense because he beat the other two players with the same score, but in this case, MKP beat genius and genius beat nestea, i would think they should have to play twice or something.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
ro8 GSL going 2-3 against MVP and then 2nd place in Blizzcon going 3-4 against MVP is a slump?
On November 04 2011 17:06 SecondChance wrote: How does zerg secure a third on that map? There are alot of paths to counter attack with lings, but small chokes that can be walled with zealots as we saw.
I think the map favours 2 base play as neither player could take a third, which Is better for protoss.
Rematch on Taldarim cross positions.
Zerg is the only race that can take a third on Crossfire...Genius stayed ahead the whole game, NesTea deserved to lose. The only reason the game took so long was because you can't secure your base against mutas. If NesTea had a standardly sized ground army, which he should have at that point, that would have been a very different game.
On November 04 2011 17:10 SolidZeal wrote: So what happens now if nestea beats marineking? Do they have a rematch? yesterday, MVP advancing made a lot of sense because he beat the other two players with the same score, but in this case, MKP beat genius and genius beat nestea, i would think they should have to play twice or something.
Genius is 1-3. Nestea wins any 2-2 tie because he would have head to head vs mkp and life
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
ro8 GSL going 2-3 against MVP and then 2nd place in Blizzcon going 3-4 against MVP is a slump?
The last time he lost this many games was August. Slumps are relative terms and I think I used a poor word.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
The "wasn't trying" arguments are getting hilarious lmfao.
lol people like Nestea/MVP really don't care about this tournament. I guarantee they didn't do any sort of specific preparation for them. Nestea most likely hasn't done dedicated ZvP practice since his last GSL victory. He has not played a protoss in GSL since then and the Terran domination made him practice massive amounts of ZvT.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
ro8 GSL going 2-3 against MVP and then 2nd place in Blizzcon going 3-4 against MVP is a slump?
The last time he lost this many games was August. Slumps are relative terms and I think I used a poor word.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
ro8 GSL going 2-3 against MVP and then 2nd place in Blizzcon going 3-4 against MVP is a slump?
Aw man if that is a slump then it looks like I will be in a slump the rest of my life TT kekeke
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
The "wasn't trying" arguments are getting hilarious lmfao.
Right, so somehow he tries the same and puts the same amount of effort into GSL and into smaller, less prestigious tournaments and yet plows through GSL, getting 3 titles, one without losing a GAME, and then does rubbish in non-GSL tourneys? If you really think Nestea tries as hard for these tourneys, you're deluding yourself.
Even if Life wins this game it won't make a difference. Whoever wins MKP vs Nestea advances no matter what so no he isn't trying to lose. He probably would be if what you said was true.
On November 04 2011 17:14 Oboeman wrote: Is supernova trying to lose since he already has #1, so by giving life a game he can sandbag marineking or nestea?
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
The "wasn't trying" arguments are getting hilarious lmfao.
lol people like Nestea/MVP really don't care about this tournament. I guarantee they didn't do any sort of specific preparation for them. Nestea most likely hasn't done dedicated ZvP practice since his last GSL victory. He has not played a protoss in GSL since then and the Terran domination made him practice massive amounts of ZvT.
Maybe IM should've sent some other players then? Maybe that's why Slayers didn't send MMA.
On November 04 2011 17:14 Oboeman wrote: Is supernova trying to lose since he already has #1, so by giving life a game he can sandbag marineking or nestea?
On November 04 2011 17:15 JJH777 wrote: Even if Life wins this game it won't make a difference. Whoever wins MKP vs Nestea advances no matter what so no he isn't trying to lose. He probably would be if what you said was true.
Ya, SuperNova probably didn't give a fuck what happened since the match meant nothing at all. W/e Moletrap is saying right now is wrong.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
I doubt he's taking this tournament very seriously. You're unlikely to see any players who have a legit shot to win Code S give it their best effort. No reason to put in the practice or show new strats when so little is on the line relatively speaking.
On November 04 2011 17:14 Oboeman wrote: Is supernova trying to lose since he already has #1, so by giving life a game he can sandbag marineking or nestea?
exactly my thought, very smart of him too
Except that's not how it works.
If people are tied then the head to head results count
NesTea, MKP and Life will all be on 2-2 but NesTea will have beaten both of them and therefore will advance.
On November 04 2011 17:14 Oboeman wrote: Is supernova trying to lose since he already has #1, so by giving life a game he can sandbag marineking or nestea?
exactly my thought, very smart of him too
this game actually meant nothing.
Yeah, the NesTea/Genius game didn't matter either, the only game in the last 3 that matters is Nestea vs MKP.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
Am I the only one who thinks the word "slump" getting thrown around is way worse than "bonjwa" because of how frequently it gets used?
Nestea's last major losses were what? GSL August and Oct. to MVP who always beats him, Blizzcon finals...to MVP, sC in a bo1 (sC only narrowly lost 2-3 last time they played), and Genius in a Bo1 in a side tournament.
That doesn't sound like a slump to me.
Edit: Obviously forgetting the bo1 vs Supernova earlier.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
I doubt he's taking this tournament very seriously. You're unlikely to see any players who have a legit shot to win Code S give it their best effort. No reason to put in the practice or show new strats when so little is on the line relatively speaking.
I'm sure their teams, who selected them, are happy with that setup. /rolleyes
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
I doubt he's taking this tournament very seriously. You're unlikely to see any players who have a legit shot to win Code S give it their best effort. No reason to put in the practice or show new strats when so little is on the line relatively speaking.
I'm sure their teams, who selected them, are happy with that setup. /rolleyes
yeah this lol. If they aren't going to try at all don't you think IM would put someone not in code S then? I mean Nestea is my favorite player yes but comments like this annoy me so much of "Nestea doesn't try its a smaller tournament" rofl if he really didn't care he'd have not wanted to play -_-
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
Seems like the only exposure you guys have to the Korean scene is the GSL. Nestea rarely tries too hard in small tournaments. However Nestea is officially in a slump I will concede THAT.
The "wasn't trying" arguments are getting hilarious lmfao.
Right, so somehow he tries the same and puts the same amount of effort into GSL and into smaller, less prestigious tournaments and yet plows through GSL, getting 3 titles, one without losing a GAME, and then does rubbish in non-GSL tourneys? If you really think Nestea tries as hard for these tourneys, you're deluding yourself.
This is what I'm getting at. Every time I've seen Nestea play in a smaller tournament he has tried a style that is distinctly not his. It's fun to watch but some times.. it just doesn't work out for him!
Edit: I already said I used the word slump incorrectly. What. More. Do. You. Want. It's 4am and I woke up at 2am to watch this. FORGIVE ME.
On November 04 2011 17:05 Brainiac wrote: Seems like Neastea lost his invincible status for good.
I doubt he's taking this tournament very seriously. You're unlikely to see any players who have a legit shot to win Code S give it their best effort. No reason to put in the practice or show new strats when so little is on the line relatively speaking.
I'm sure their teams, who selected them, are happy with that setup. /rolleyes
yeah this lol. If they aren't going to try at all don't you think IM would put someone not in code S then? I mean Nestea is my favorite player yes but comments like this annoy me so much of "Nestea doesn't try its a smaller tournament" rofl if he really didn't care he'd have not wanted to play -_-
They do try. They just don't do any specific preparation and they certainly won't reveal new builds. He wants a shot at the money even if it's a small amount.
That was kind of dumb. "I'm gonna posture at your front, to force you to make units instead of drones!". Then, a minute later, once all of those units have been built, he attacks.
On November 04 2011 17:25 synergy_sin wrote: I think it's funny how cautious Moletrap is being with Khaldor...it's a good change, he's waiting his turn to talk, being courteous, etc.
Definitely way better than moletrap + wolf combo. Personally I hate wolf more than moletrap since that guy is so cocky
Why delay that push and give NesTea time to amass units? We've seen MVP hit these brutal 3 rax 1 fact timings after zerg makes roaches in the early game and just kill them with good tank positioning and bunkers.
On November 04 2011 17:25 Severian wrote: That was kind of dumb. "I'm gonna posture at your front, to force you to make units instead of drones!". Then, a minute later, once all of those units have been built, he attacks.
I think he was counting on a reaction like "phew he didn't attack, dobule expo drone drone drone drone drone OH SHIT"
On November 04 2011 17:25 synergy_sin wrote: I think it's funny how cautious Moletrap is being with Khaldor...it's a good change, he's waiting his turn to talk, being courteous, etc.
Definitely way better than moletrap + wolf combo. Personally I hate wolf more than moletrap since that guy is so cocky
I like Wolf because he's passionate and knowledgeable, I like Moletrap because (even though he's annoying) he's still gets really passionate during the games.
On November 04 2011 17:25 neoghaleon55 wrote: is nestea trying a new build today? no muta in zvt?
Especially on that map! It's Dongraegu's mutalisk heaven!
Nestea went double up ling infestor at blizzcon. He opened double ups almost every game, and went infestor sometimes, but went muta if his opponent went blue hellions (which was a lot)
On November 04 2011 17:39 Hall0wed wrote: Nestea is definitely a top 2 zerg according to Moletrap. lolwat?
Top 1 with no competition, general consensus. -_-
They talked early and insinuated that Khaldor disagrees. I am guessing he is claiming some Stephano bullshit.
Probably referring to my zerg play... I know its my offrace but I am an up-and-coming player for sure. Khaldor saw me play and went to Korea to spread the word.
On November 04 2011 17:38 doko100 wrote: I like the Khaldor/Moletrap duo. Doa/Wolf is slightly better, but I enjoy Khaldor/Moletrap alot more than Moletrap/Doa-wolf.
I´m with you here. Wolf/Doa just have a great synergy and seem very comfortable next to each other, and their humor fits well. And Moletrap seems to benefit more from having a really enthusiastic co-caster. Overall the casting setup of GSL is really good right now
The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
I guess Ganzi and Bomber will be winning their respective groups then.
Genius wins today for the tribute to the carriers. It reallys sucks that the marines scouted it because it was a really refined build and it looked like it was going to work.
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
It's a conspiracy!
The only player that the protosses beat from each group is also the ace of the group. It's kinda funny when you went 1-3 in the group and the only player you beat are Nestea and MVP.
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
The only player that the protosses beat from each group is also the ace of the group. It's kinda funny when you went 1-3 in the group and the only player you beat are Nestea and MVP.
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
Both also won the games that no one would have guessed them to have even come close in, as well...
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
It's a conspiracy!
This goes farther than Mr Chae. We need to go deeper *inception*
On November 04 2011 17:50 Fionn wrote: The results from Group A and B were strangely similar.
Curious 3-1/Supernova 3-1: Both former Code A finalists (Supernova lost his) MVP 2-2/Nestea 2-2: The two aces of Incredible Miracle advance due to beating both players they are tied with. Polt 2-2/MarineKing 2-2: The two former aces of Prime (Polt now on TSL) and both enjoy bionic play Line 2-2/Life 2-2: The two zerg aces from ZeNex MC 1-3/Genius 1-3: The only protosses in the group who both played like they were drunk and/or didn't care about the AoL
It's a conspiracy!
The only player that the protosses beat from each group is also the ace of the group. It's kinda funny when you went 1-3 in the group and the only player you beat are Nestea and MVP.
*Obligatory joke about Nestea has been in Code S so long that he has forgotten what playing against Protoss is like*
Khaldor had a really good debut. He works really well with Moletrap. I'm with others where I really like Wolf/Doa because they have very good chemistry and the Wolf/Moletrap and Doa/Moletrap combos aren't that good. I think GOM finally found the perfect setup.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/U2C5g.jpg)
SuperNoVa vs 
Genius vs 
Life
at least to people that didn't watch..
