• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 09:22
CEST 15:22
KST 22:22
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt2: News Flash10[ASL21] Ro24 Preview Pt1: New Chaos0Team Liquid Map Contest #22 - Presented by Monster Energy18ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT30Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book20
Community News
$5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy2GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding3Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win0[BSL22] RO32 Group Stage4Weekly Cups (March 23-29): herO takes triple6
StarCraft 2
General
Quebec Clan still alive ? BGE Stara Zagora 2026 cancelled Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Weekly Cups (May 30-Apr 5): herO, Clem, SHIN win Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info
Tourneys
Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament GSL CK: More events planned pending crowdfunding $5,000 WardiTV TLMC tournament - Presented by Monster Energy RSL Season 4 announced for March-April
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players [M] (2) Frigid Storage
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 520 Moving Fees Mutation # 519 Inner Power Mutation # 518 Radiation Zone
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion ASL21 General Discussion so ive been playing broodwar for a week straight. Gypsy to Korea Pros React To: JaeDong vs Queen
Tourneys
Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL21] Ro24 Group F [BSL22] RO32 Group B - Sunday 21:00 CEST
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Muta micro map competition What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Starcraft Tabletop Miniature Game Nintendo Switch Thread Darkest Dungeon
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
G2 just beat GenG in First stand
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread The China Politics Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion Cricket [SPORT] Tokyo Olympics 2021 Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
[G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How Streamers Inspire Gamers…
TrAiDoS
Broowar part 2
qwaykee
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Iranian anarchists: organize…
XenOsky
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Electronics
mantequilla
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2039 users

[GCPL Semis] Liquid vs EG - Page 27

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
Post a Reply
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
sToFu
Profile Joined August 2011
United States189 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 00:18:43
November 09 2011 00:18 GMT
#521
On November 09 2011 06:37 m0ck wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 06:35 Talin wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote:
TL's dead


TL got outpicked tbh.

It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-


Eh, which team are you referring to? =)


Basically KT Rolster.
KT pretty much had one great player (Flash) this year, because their Zerg (Luxury) was banned for match-fixing, and their protoss (violet) got cancer or something. KT Rolster was even known, in ~2008, as KTFlash, because he'd completely carry the team. They beat SKT T1, a stacked team, in proleague finals.

Edit: Grammar
DarkPlasmaBall
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States45458 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 01:01:15
November 09 2011 01:00 GMT
#522
On November 09 2011 09:12 Dexington wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 08:02 Yamulo wrote:
On November 09 2011 07:39 cavalier117 wrote:
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:50 Tranqje wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:41 Loodah wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:36 ssg wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:35 Talin wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote:
TL's dead


TL got outpicked tbh.

It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-

If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.


Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero


How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.

Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.

I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion.
Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland.
While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.

Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.

Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.


Ret-

Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans

Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans
- although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.

and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.

IdrA

and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled

So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............

Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...

You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining


Naniwa just lost to Sen, 2-0, and Soccer 2-0. Who? Soccer is just your run of the mill Code A Protoss. Naniwa is gonna get rolled by Lucky in Code A, then maybe he'll stop being over hyped.


Pshyeah, run of the mill Code A players. What noobs.

Anyways...

All this arguing is kinda silly. TL and EG are both great teams... but the really important thing is that EG has considerably more depth. Hero, cool. Maybe Ret. Then who? Sheth, meh. Tyler and TLO and Haypro? LOL.

EG... HuK, IdrA, and Puma? You're gonna almost certainly be favored, ezpz. Then DeMuslim, who's no chump. And then you have the not-so-greats of iNcontroL, Machine, etc.

When it comes to a team tournament, EG is going to have the advantage over TL, especially if EG has access to its whole roster (EG didn't even use IdrA this time) or if there are more games being played. They have more amazing players.
"There is nothing more satisfying than looking at a crowd of people and helping them get what I love." ~Day[9] Daily #100
sLBraemar
Profile Joined July 2011
Canada285 Posts
November 09 2011 01:03 GMT
#523
On November 03 2011 20:54 AxeSC wrote:
PuMa > Sheth
DeMusliM < Ret
Machine < HerO
HuK > HayprO

Ace: PuMa > HerO


Looks like I got it right!
Don't wait for an opportunity to come to you, create your own.
pewpew444
Profile Joined May 2011
United States121 Posts
November 09 2011 01:05 GMT
#524
On November 09 2011 10:03 AxeSC wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 03 2011 20:54 AxeSC wrote:
PuMa > Sheth
DeMusliM < Ret
Machine < HerO
HuK > HayprO

Ace: PuMa > HerO


Looks like I got it right!


Good job! Although i feel like demuslim v. ret was the only iffy match.
xXFireandIceXx
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada4296 Posts
November 09 2011 01:06 GMT
#525
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
two.watup
Profile Joined March 2011
United States371 Posts
November 09 2011 01:16 GMT
#526
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!

Yeah I bet they lose on purpose to show people how good they are.
ohampatu
Profile Joined July 2010
United States1448 Posts
November 09 2011 01:45 GMT
#527
On November 09 2011 04:42 ohampatu wrote:
Puma > Sheth
Demu > Ret
Machine < Hero
Huk > Haypro

By judging skill alone, this will be what happens. Since this is a grudge/ego high running match tho,
anything can happen. If ret pulls the upset and liquid gets lucky with a 2-2 they lose though.

People keep saying HuK will be EG ace, when it wont be. Puma will be, and he will crush any player they use (more than likely will be hero, and puma will smash him i expect).

I am not a puma fan, im a hero fan through and through, but im just being honest.



Woot Woot. Called it :/
I am become death, for I am the destroyer of worlds.....You will be missed KT Violet!!!
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
November 09 2011 01:47 GMT
#528
Getting your call wrong and having a caveat isn't exactly "calling it." Also 2-1 isn't a "smashing."
Loki57
Profile Joined February 2011
United States292 Posts
November 09 2011 02:29 GMT
#529
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!

I can assure you that every member of TL would shoot this down in an instant. They're of course proud of their website or whatever, but they are first and foremost competitors and have the mindset of wanting to win at the top of their agendas. Also kinda ignorant to not know what EG has done, but that's an entirely different topic. I'm pretty confident that they would all tell you that anything short of a win is a disappointment for them.
"Dedication without talent is a daydream. Talent without dedication is a nightmare."
BlazeTSR
Profile Joined November 2011
United States218 Posts
November 09 2011 02:47 GMT
#530
Crazy matches fellas! GGs
Fan of ........... Protoss: Hero, iNcontroL, Nony Zerg: CatZ and Sheth Terran: Demuslim
Xeris
Profile Blog Joined July 2005
Iran17695 Posts
November 09 2011 02:53 GMT
#531
Yep! Get pumped for tomorrow's CW between Empire and Mouz to see who + Show Spoiler +
EG
will face in the finals!
twitter.com/xerislight -- follow me~~
xXFireandIceXx
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada4296 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-11-09 03:37:29
November 09 2011 03:36 GMT
#532
On November 09 2011 11:29 Loki57 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!

I can assure you that every member of TL would shoot this down in an instant. They're of course proud of their website or whatever, but they are first and foremost competitors and have the mindset of wanting to win at the top of their agendas. Also kinda ignorant to not know what EG has done, but that's an entirely different topic. I'm pretty confident that they would all tell you that anything short of a win is a disappointment for them.


I'm not saying they don't want to win. Who doesn't want to win? Everyone does, and I'd love to see TL win. But I'm just saying my expectations for the TL team are very different based on the context of the team itself.
m3rciless
Profile Joined August 2009
United States1476 Posts
November 09 2011 03:51 GMT
#533
lol both teams send out koreans for aces.
White-Ra fighting!
GenoZStriker
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States2914 Posts
November 09 2011 04:10 GMT
#534
Xeris does the league conclude this week? As in the finals is going to happen this week as well?
eSports Prodigy & Illuminati member.
red4ce
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States7313 Posts
November 09 2011 04:29 GMT
#535
Ret should have been sent out instead of Hero for Ace match. Hero only makes since if TL was expecting Idra. Against Puma or Huk, Ret would have had a better chance.
Goshdarnit
Profile Joined August 2011
United States540 Posts
November 09 2011 04:48 GMT
#536
On November 09 2011 07:27 1Eris1 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 09 2011 07:19 Redox wrote:
On November 09 2011 07:16 1Eris1 wrote:
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:50 Tranqje wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:41 Loodah wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:36 ssg wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:35 Talin wrote:
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote:
TL's dead


TL got outpicked tbh.

It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-

If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.


Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero


How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.

Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.

I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion.
Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland.
While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.

Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.

Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.



And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher.
Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.

I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway.



Yeah sorry, I don't have all of Idra and Ret's individual tournament placements memorized to a point, nor am I that good with math where I could give you a specific number on the spot.
As it stands, in the past MLG's, IEMs, GSLs, etc, Idra almost always places higher than Ret. The only one I can think of Recently where he didn't was IPL3, where I think they tied? Or ret came in a couple places ahead.
Obviously they are both terrific players, but I find it odd that someone actually thinks that Ret is more sucessful than Idra. (At least recently, I.E. past 6 months)

this isn't fanboyism either, my favorite foreigner zerg is Sen anyways -.-


Very well said, neither ret nor idra is my favorite zerg player but strictly speaking recent results idra has an edge, that said I still very much enjoy rets play whereas the only MU I like out of idra is his ZvT.
Anyways nice comment in the midst of people feeling the need to pick at your comment despite its obvious offhandedness, no normal person would assume you actually thought you knew the exact percentage of tournaments idra was placed higher in.
AlternativeEgo
Profile Joined August 2011
Sweden17309 Posts
November 09 2011 05:17 GMT
#537
On November 09 2011 11:53 Xeris wrote:
Yep! Get pumped for tomorrow's CW between Empire and Mouz to see who + Show Spoiler +
EG
will face in the finals!


Empire and Mouz? Can't wait, the EG MCSL finals weekend meetings between them did not disappoint. :D
Mark Munoz looks like Gretorp
courtpanda
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
866 Posts
November 09 2011 05:24 GMT
#538
jinro's admitted hes been unmotivated the past few months, tylers been hardcore practicing, TLO is still recovering from carpal tunnel, liquid is nowhere near as great as theyre capable of.


also, puma's a TvP specialist. it was just bad luck that liquid's best player gives the other team the perfect matchup.
FairForever
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada2392 Posts
November 09 2011 06:37 GMT
#539
On November 09 2011 14:24 courtpanda wrote:
jinro's admitted hes been unmotivated the past few months, tylers been hardcore practicing, TLO is still recovering from carpal tunnel, liquid is nowhere near as great as theyre capable of.


also, puma's a TvP specialist. it was just bad luck that liquid's best player gives the other team the perfect matchup.


Puma's TvP is his best, but I'd hardly call him a specialist. In NASL S1 he 2-0'd Ret and 3-1'd July, which are not small feats. He's also done very well at MLGs in pool play, and in the championship bracket eliminated Polt 2-0.

Saying Puma is a TvP specialist is like saying Idra is a ZvT specialist, or Select is a TvP specialist (or Elfi is a PvP specialist... lol)
HystericaLaughter
Profile Joined September 2011
Australia720 Posts
November 09 2011 07:03 GMT
#540
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote:
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!


Sorry, but that is just completely wrong.

Every team, and every player is about winning every single tournament they enter. TL has done an enormous amount for esports for an extremely long time in areas other than playing, but how do you equate this to mean that they are 'much less competitively-oriented' than EG?

Also, don't disregard what EG has done for the community. They host the EG masters cup, a great foreign clan war, and they regularly release plenty of other content as well.

You are coming across as simply trying to find an excuse for TL's loss.

Gratz to EG for the victory
My wife for hire! - Zealot
Prev 1 25 26 27 28 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
WardiTV Team League
11:00
Playoffs Day 2
WardiTV768
ComeBackTV 603
IndyStarCraft 142
Rex102
3DClanTV 50
Liquipedia
CranKy Ducklings
10:00
Sea Duckling Open #144
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 131
Rex 102
trigger 49
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 57202
Sea 6061
Jaedong 1240
EffOrt 932
Shuttle 531
Hyuk 519
Mini 429
firebathero 356
Light 288
ggaemo 213
[ Show more ]
hero 171
Zeus 161
Last 157
PianO 92
Pusan 64
Shinee 54
[sc1f]eonzerg 51
Hm[arnc] 42
ToSsGirL 36
Shine 30
HiyA 29
Movie 28
scan(afreeca) 28
Sexy 24
Barracks 23
910 17
yabsab 14
Sacsri 14
GoRush 14
Rock 12
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
Terrorterran 10
Noble 10
Icarus 5
Dota 2
Gorgc6661
qojqva1086
syndereN155
Counter-Strike
kennyS1223
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor136
Other Games
singsing1892
B2W.Neo1074
Lowko324
XaKoH 285
DeMusliM193
Hui .113
RotterdaM102
QueenE59
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL18649
Other Games
BasetradeTV929
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
CasterMuse 0
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 45
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos1995
• TFBlade1433
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
1h 38m
IPSL
2h 38m
Hawk vs TBD
StRyKeR vs TBD
BSL
5h 38m
n0maD vs perroflaco
TerrOr vs ZZZero
MadiNho vs WolFix
DragOn vs LancerX
Sparkling Tuna Cup
20h 38m
WardiTV Team League
21h 38m
OSC
23h 38m
BSL
1d 5h
Sterling vs Azhi_Dahaki
Napoleon vs Mazur
Jimin vs Nesh
spx vs Strudel
IPSL
1d 5h
Artosis vs TBD
Napoleon vs TBD
Replay Cast
1d 19h
Wardi Open
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
1d 20h
Soma vs YSC
Sharp vs sSak
Monday Night Weeklies
2 days
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs PianO
hero vs Rain
GSL
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Kung Fu Cup
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Escore
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
6 days
CranKy Ducklings
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W2
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
StarCraft2 Community Team League 2026 Spring
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S2: W3
Acropolis #4
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
RSL Revival: Season 5
WardiTV TLMC #16
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
IEM Rio 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.