It's that time again... you thought I forgot? Nope! After a hectic October, it's finally time to start the GCPL Playoffs! Last season, FnaticMSI took down Dignitas in a thrilling series to win the $7,000 first prize. This season... four teams: EG, Liquid, Empire, and Mouz will be fighting for $5,000 in cash!
If you want to re-live the regular season, check out GosuCoaching.com, or this thread on TL. The VODs for this season can be found on our TwitchTV page!
Without further adieu... I bring you the first Semi-Final, Liquid vs EG.
Puma > Sheth Demuslim <> Ret - I can't decide on this one. Both players are very strong when they are "on", but I've seen inconsistency from both. Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
On November 03 2011 00:56 Netsky wrote: Really nice line up of matches:
Puma > Sheth Demuslim <> Ret - I can't decide on this one. Both players are very strong when they are "on", but I've seen inconsistency from both. Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
Why did EG play Machine instead of IdrA?
I disagree on DeMuslim. I think it's exactly the opposite.
You get #1 on NA and EU ladders from being the most consistent person in the West.
(At least say he doesn't perform to his potential in live tournaments.)
Puma > Sheth (Gonna be the dealbreaker if Liquid wanna win this before the acematch, Sheth can do it. Giving him a 40% chance of winning)
Demuslin < Ret(This is the match that EG can win if they wanna close it out before an acematch, I can see Demuslin upseting Ret. Though I will put my money on Ret)
Machine < Hero(Nothing to say, Hero is going to Roflstomp Machine)
Huk > Haypro (Huk should take this game with ease)
The acematch will depend a lot on who EG decides to use. Liquid will use Hero and if EG responds with Huk I'll give it to Liquid but if they decide to use Puma then it's 50/50 imo.
Overall I think TL got the upperhand, they are doing amazing in all the teamleagues I've seen them in so I hope that they can keep it up!
Anyway: PuMa > Sheth, although Sheth could still win, wouldn't be an upset whatsoever Ret > Demuslim, both good, but I do think Ret is the better player here. Machine < Hero lol HuK > HayprO rofl
On November 03 2011 00:28 refmac_cys.cys wrote: Puma > Sheth Demuslim < Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
Ace-Hero> Huk 2:1!
gogo Liquid!
About spot on I reckon - most seem straightforward (I think Ret's ZvT is v.high standard), and not much chance they'll play idra for ace with Hero as Liquid's likely pick. That ace match though... tough one. Go liquid.
PS In the OP you write `without further adieu', I think you mean `without further ado', because the first one's not a thing, unless you're leaving, I suppose.
Puma is favored over Sheth, but Sheth could still pull off the upset. Ret is favored over Demuslim, but once again, Demuslim could win it as well. It is unlikely that Hero would lose to Machine. It is also unlikely that Huk would lose to Haypro.
The first 2 matches are key for both teams. Win both, and you stand a very good chance of taking the series. By the way, is Idra the ace?
Puma > Sheth Demuslim > Ret (least confident) Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
Ace match won't be necessary and EG rebounds from a less than impressive showing in their own playoffs. But to echo what a lot of people have said, it depends on the first two matches and particularly Demuslim v. Ret.
Demuslim beat Ret at mlg, Ret beat Demuslim at ipl, I think it could go either way. Also Machine took a game off Hero at the most recent mlg so he could very well do it again, especially since its BO1.
On November 03 2011 02:46 Willba wrote: Demuslim beat Ret at mlg, Ret beat Demuslim at ipl, I think it could go either way. Also Machine took a game off Hero at the most recent mlg so he could very well do it again, especially since its BO1.
On November 03 2011 02:46 Willba wrote: Demuslim beat Ret at mlg, Ret beat Demuslim at ipl, I think it could go either way. Also Machine took a game off Hero at the most recent mlg so he could very well do it again, especially since its BO1.
On November 03 2011 02:46 Willba wrote: Demuslim beat Ret at mlg, Ret beat Demuslim at ipl, I think it could go either way. Also Machine took a game off Hero at the most recent mlg so he could very well do it again, especially since its BO1.
its bo3
Ah ok, so its different to the group stages then?
Also i'm confused, Liquipedia article says Dignitas qualified not Empire and its Liquid vs Dignitas and EG vs Mouz. It also says the tournament was supposed to finish a month ago, I presume its all inaccurate?
Can someone answer this for me? Why would EG field Machine to fight in this important match? He is not a terrible player but why not choose, say, IdrA who I think we all agree is clearly better?
On November 03 2011 02:46 Willba wrote: Demuslim beat Ret at mlg, Ret beat Demuslim at ipl, I think it could go either way. Also Machine took a game off Hero at the most recent mlg so he could very well do it again, especially since its BO1.
its bo3
Ah ok, so its different to the group stages then?
Also i'm confused, Liquipedia article says Dignitas qualified not Empire and its Liquid vs Dignitas and EG vs Mouz. It also says the tournament was supposed to finish a month ago, I presume its all inaccurate?
It is inaccurate.
Sixjax's games were all turned into 0-3 losses due to them disbanding. Therefore Empire's loss vs them was removed, and they advanced to the playoff
When you're alone at a coffee shop and frankly a little bit bored, do you doodle radical new tournament formats on your napkin?
When you're taking a shower and the water is too warm and the air is too cold for you to finish in a reasonable amount of time, do you find yourself thinking of seeds and brackets?
Do you feverishly work out tournament after tournament on your laptop, tossing the laptop in the garbage bin and starting anew with another word document on another laptop until you're finally satisfied, filling bins upon bins with laptops tainted by your imperfect attempts?
Is your ultimate goal to one day, after countless ambitious iterations, achieve the Perfect Tournament Format? And do you dream that on that day, your haters will weep tears of contrition, and desrow will publicly apologize to you for ever doubting your tournament genius, and all of Teamliquid and /r/starcraft will cry out in simultaneous, global joy?
Puma > Sheth Demuslim > Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
I can possibly see Machine training up for this match and taking it like a boss. I can't see any other reason why EG would put out Machine instead of Puma against Hero other than Machine wanted revenge after his 2-1 defeat at MLG.
Hero vs Machine and Haypro vs Huk should be pretty onesided. Puma vs Sheth is also probably going to go to Puma and whether Liquid manages to take it to the ace match or not is going to rely on Ret's performance imo, Although I could see Sheth pulling out something
On November 03 2011 03:35 zarepath wrote: Xeris, do you organize tournaments in your sleep?
When you're alone at a coffee shop and frankly a little bit bored, do you doodle radical new tournament formats on your napkin?
When you're taking a shower and the water is too warm and the air is too cold for you to finish in a reasonable amount of time, do you find yourself thinking of seeds and brackets?
Do you feverishly work out tournament after tournament on your laptop, tossing the laptop in the garbage bin and starting anew with another word document on another laptop until you're finally satisfied, filling bins upon bins with laptops tainted by your imperfect attempts?
Is your ultimate goal to one day, after countless ambitious iterations, achieve the Perfect Tournament Format? And do you dream that on that day, your haters will weep tears of contrition, and desrow will publicly apologize to you for ever doubting your tournament genius, and all of Teamliquid and /r/starcraft will cry out in simultaneous, global joy?
On November 03 2011 03:08 IPA wrote: Can someone answer this for me? Why would EG field Machine to fight in this important match? He is not a terrible player but why not choose, say, IdrA who I think we all agree is clearly better?
It might not be nearly as important to EG as you think, or IdrA might be busy with something else. Keep in mind this is the same EG who's players have been winning left and right (even beating Koreans).
On November 03 2011 03:35 zarepath wrote: Xeris, do you organize tournaments in your sleep?
When you're alone at a coffee shop and frankly a little bit bored, do you doodle radical new tournament formats on your napkin?
When you're taking a shower and the water is too warm and the air is too cold for you to finish in a reasonable amount of time, do you find yourself thinking of seeds and brackets?
Do you feverishly work out tournament after tournament on your laptop, tossing the laptop in the garbage bin and starting anew with another word document on another laptop until you're finally satisfied, filling bins upon bins with laptops tainted by your imperfect attempts?
Is your ultimate goal to one day, after countless ambitious iterations, achieve the Perfect Tournament Format? And do you dream that on that day, your haters will weep tears of contrition, and desrow will publicly apologize to you for ever doubting your tournament genius, and all of Teamliquid and /r/starcraft will cry out in simultaneous, global joy?
My gf read this and she says it pretty much accurately describes my daily life T_T
Sheth v Puma and Demuslim v Ret will probably very close, I think thath Puma and Ret are probably favored by a little bit. Hero is favored over Machine, and Huk is favored over Haypro. In the ace, I think that Hero will defeat Huk.
ohh some sick matches, i am most hyped for demuslim vs ret. i hope demuslim isnt distracted by his girlfriend too much in his practice and ret is in good shape too.. these matches will be epic <3
On November 03 2011 03:35 zarepath wrote: Xeris, do you organize tournaments in your sleep?
When you're alone at a coffee shop and frankly a little bit bored, do you doodle radical new tournament formats on your napkin?
When you're taking a shower and the water is too warm and the air is too cold for you to finish in a reasonable amount of time, do you find yourself thinking of seeds and brackets?
Do you feverishly work out tournament after tournament on your laptop, tossing the laptop in the garbage bin and starting anew with another word document on another laptop until you're finally satisfied, filling bins upon bins with laptops tainted by your imperfect attempts?
Is your ultimate goal to one day, after countless ambitious iterations, achieve the Perfect Tournament Format? And do you dream that on that day, your haters will weep tears of contrition, and desrow will publicly apologize to you for ever doubting your tournament genius, and all of Teamliquid and /r/starcraft will cry out in simultaneous, global joy?
My gf read this and she says it pretty much accurately describes my daily life T_T
Or does it have to be one of the other players who have played in that specific match?
But anyway Best of 3 make it interesting :D
Puma 2-0 Sheth (Puma is a monter TvZ) DeMuslim 2-1 Ret (this is 50-50 but DeMuslim normally has Ret's number specially online) Machine 0-2 Hero (Machin is improving though, but hero is a beast with his mechanics) HuK 2-0 Haypro (Think HuK is a tad to strong here)
EG 3-1 Liquid
Also if it does come to an Ace Match, well Puma 2-0 Hero easily, and even if PvP HuK 2-0 Hero, to strong in both match ups vs Hero im affraid.
On November 03 2011 01:15 Ornithorynquez wrote: Ace match : iNcontroL - Haypro
Definitely.
But Either team could win this. I think personally
Puma>Sheth but anything can happen in this match, Sheth can defintely upset Puma if he is on
Demuslim=Ret there is absolutely no way to tell this, Demuslim I think is a little better but doesn't perform as well live.
Machine>Hero /sarcasm
HuK>Haypro This one is actually going to be closer than a lot of people think. Haypro is insanely good but is in a slump has showed signs of getting out of it, what with beating sleep and Boxer, and his specialty is ZvP, so he may be able to show some good matches. That said, Huk is Huk and Huk will win.
If ACE occurs; It all depends on how the players preform in this game for EG. They can be very on/off, and with Hero definitely being the ace for liquid, HuK wont come out (I doubt they would risk a coinflip PvP against a player like Hero) so either Puma or Demuslim. If Puma wins against sheth, I expect he will come out, but Hero really gave him a run for his money last time they faced, so Demuslim may be a curveball thrown by EG. But it should be a good ace match if it comes down to it.
On November 03 2011 01:15 Ornithorynquez wrote: Ace match : iNcontroL - Haypro
Definitely.
But Either team could win this. I think personally
Puma>Sheth but anything can happen in this match, Sheth can defintely upset Puma if he is on
Demuslim=Ret there is absolutely no way to tell this, Demuslim I think is a little better but doesn't perform as well live.
Machine>Hero /sarcasm
HuK>Haypro This one is actually going to be closer than a lot of people think. Haypro is insanely good but is in a slump has showed signs of getting out of it, what with beating sleep and Boxer, and his specialty is ZvP, so he may be able to show some good matches. That said, Huk is Huk and Huk will win.
If ACE occurs; It all depends on how the players preform in this game for EG. They can be very on/off, and with Hero definitely being the ace for liquid, HuK wont come out (I doubt they would risk a coinflip PvP against a player like Hero) so either Puma or Demuslim. If Puma wins against sheth, I expect he will come out, but Hero really gave him a run for his money last time they faced, so Demuslim may be a curveball thrown by EG. But it should be a good ace match if it comes down to it.
Demuslim < Ret is one of the easier to call matches in my opinion. Ret is very good and DeMuslim is well within Ret's comfort zone to defeat him. The one thing that I could see going against Ret is that he's probably the most active player right now (7 tournaments in the last 8 weeks) and DeMuslim is quite good.
Everyone keeps bagging on machine but he actually took a game off hero at MLG. Given that this event is online and the latency will probably be favouring machine I can see the likelihood of an upset being much higher than people are giving machine credit for.
On November 03 2011 22:59 aintz wrote: ret should be able to beat demuslim. rest of the matches are pretty 1 sided.
One-sided in favor of EG? Please explain.
one sided in that puma will smash sheth, HuK will smash haypro and hero smash machine
HayprO is better than Machine IMO...he at least puts on far better performances at MLGs. Neither have any big results but from what's been seen, HayprO is a higher tier player than Machine. I suppose we'll see eh :D
Egos run high in these big grudge match games with fans. It's gonna be one of those times when the Liquid fans say 3-1 and the EG fans say 3-1 and when it goes to 2-2 no-one knows what to do.
On November 03 2011 00:56 Netsky wrote: Really nice line up of matches:
Puma > Sheth Demuslim <> Ret - I can't decide on this one. Both players are very strong when they are "on", but I've seen inconsistency from both. Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
I have to give it to liquid for a couple reasons. DeMuslim has been traveling everywhere and probably hasn't been practicing nearly as much as he is used to.
I might give Puma over sheth but it's a Bo3 so I couldn't tell It's going to go to maps imo.
On November 09 2011 02:18 Xeris wrote: I posted and got this event added to the calendar but I don't see it listed under UPCOMING??? this starts in 40 minutes!
I see it, it's third on the list. ;o
Upcoming events: [ More ] 12m XILENCE Cup 42m EU Playhem Daily 42m GCPL Semi: EG vs L…
On November 09 2011 02:18 Xeris wrote: I posted and got this event added to the calendar but I don't see it listed under UPCOMING??? this starts in 40 minutes!
It's listed as "other", not Starcraft II - presumably by mistake. Check your sidebar settings (under the sidebar, right above TLAF logo).
I think I found an explanation for the lack of Idra, Jinro etc -- each team has 4 players of different countries. With Idra and Jinro added, there would be 2 USA for EG, and 2 Sweden for TL. As it's now, it's very balanced US/EU/KR representation.
Sheth just sort of fell apart there after he broke the center ... IMO he could have won had he made a bunch of banes from his ling remax and used them to bust the PF + SCV's.
On November 09 2011 02:50 Shifft wrote: Why is this in the middle of the day T_T
not everyone lives in canada, time if perfect for europe
But it's still a fairly bad time for a major broadcast. If this was held at 10 or 11 pm UTC, far more people in NA could watch and it still wouldn't be an absurd time for EU.
On November 09 2011 03:52 SkyTheUnknown wrote: IdrA not playing in order to make this semi-final less one-sided?
Jinro is not playing cause they don't need him to beat Idra again and again..
Jinro not playing because Liquid wants to have a chance at winning?
He's not bad but all four players that Liquid is fielding are better IMO. Haypro and Jinro are pretty close in skill I suppose.
No clue why EG isn't fielding Idra, the other three are fine, but I think Idra is better than Machine...
I was using it as a joke argument actually. Never might though, yea Idra is better then Machine but he's been traveling a lot and god knows when these games were played.
On November 09 2011 03:21 ondik wrote: who are the commentators?
haha, I came to this thread to ask the same question
E: How come this has such a low profile? Only 1.2k ppl watching - It's EG vs Liquid after all...
Middle of the standard work day for everyone in NA and around the time most of western EU is getting home. Seeing as EG is a primarily NA team and how the majority of SC2 viewers seem to be based on the continent, it makes sense that the numbers are so low.
The standard these days 2k viewers being "low" *old mans voice* I remember BroodWar etc Sheth looking good. Will take this game unless that muta flock single-handedly tries to kill Pumas army
I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad. And he's wondering why he never made it into even Code A or S even at MLG...
Bah, Sheth really misplayed that. I guess Zergs aren't really used to dealing with 2 port banshee anymore. =/
In all probability that kills Liquid's chance of winning this before the ace match and Ret absolutely has to win vs Demu for Liquid to even get to ace.
On November 09 2011 04:18 Talin wrote: Typical Puma playstyle, oh well.
Every terran in the world goes for the heavy early pressure into taking the gold on xel-naga. At least Puma didn't go for the 2 fac hellion or the 3 bunkers marines....
On November 09 2011 04:18 Talin wrote: Typical Puma playstyle, oh well.
Early pressure into expansion into convincing win? I concur
Coinflipping at it's best.
The most funny part about it is that this isn't even the best way for T to abuse this map, there are a lot more solid ways of doing it. -_-
Not coinflipping at all against sheth, especially on xelnaga. Unlike most terrans who do that build, Puma made exactly the right # of banshees and expanded behind it
On November 09 2011 04:18 Talin wrote: Typical Puma playstyle, oh well.
Early pressure into expansion into convincing win? I concur
Coinflipping at it's best.
The most funny part about it is that this isn't even the best way for T to abuse this map, there are a lot more solid ways of doing it. -_-
Not coinflipping at all against sheth, especially on xelnaga
Don't be silly, Puma won the game by half a second or something. If the Lair stayed up, there would be no way back for him and his expansion wouldn't have mattered at all.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL Grand Finals while sheth got eliminated in the first round. Plus Sheth didn't qualify for Code A the way PuMa has to so it isn't even a fair comparison. That said, I do think PuMa rode the terran raping everything train for a month to win a couple events, and I'm not sure if he will again but obviously he is better than Sheth.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
On November 09 2011 04:18 Talin wrote: Typical Puma playstyle, oh well.
Early pressure into expansion into convincing win? I concur
Coinflipping at it's best.
The most funny part about it is that this isn't even the best way for T to abuse this map, there are a lot more solid ways of doing it. -_-
Not coinflipping at all against sheth, especially on xelnaga
Don't be silly, Puma won the game by half a second or something. If the Lair stayed up, there would be no way back for him and his expansion wouldn't have mattered at all.
The lair was late, puma saw the timing and he was always going to kill it before the mutas are out unless he miscontrols. He didn't even repair one of the banshees because he knew he had to be fast
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
That was IEM with the 1/1/1 my friend at NASL all the games were macro games and puma had insanely nice drops all the time.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Not getting into this discussion, but Puma didn't 1/1/1 vs MC in the NASL finals.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
PuMa didn't 1/1/1 MC at all in NASL finals.
Well, the fact of the matter is that when he played macro games versus MC, he lost the three games, the four games he won, he had to cheese MC to win. That's totally a sign of a good player!~
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
That was IEM cologne... Puma beat MC in NASL in the highest level of starcraft ever played to that date...
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
PuMa didn't 1/1/1 MC at all in NASL finals.
Well, the fact of the matter is that when he played macro games versus MC, he lost the three games, the four games he won, he had to cheese MC to win. That's totally a sign of a good player!~
What the fuck are you talking about? he didn't cheese MC once in the final but MC cheesed him in the last game.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
You are a idiotic liquid fan boy if you are being serious with this statement. First sheth was given his code a spot he did not go through qualifiers, which is regarded by many to be harder than code a. Next look at pumas tournament wins and then sheths... Next look at how they have placed in mlgs. Please do not make such bias statements they make me angry.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
As he's Korean so he doesn't get the "easy" spot?
Christ you really don't get it do you? It's not important really what people managed four months ago when current form is so very different...
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Stop argueing a point you're wildly wrong on.
SeleCT got in because he was on a foreign team and not residing in Korea (at the time). He was pretty much an exception. Players like Ganzi etc did not get a Code A spot despite placing very high from the open bracket.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Select lives in America. He is a Korean American.
PuMa lives in the EG pro-house which is located in AZ, which is located in the United States last time I checked, and EG is an American based team last time I checked. Hmm.. weird.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Select lives in America. He is a Korean American.
PuMa lives in the EG pro-house which is located in AZ, which is located in the United States last time I checked, and EG is an American based team last time I checked. Hmm.. weird.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Select lives in America. He is a Korean American.
PuMa lives in the EG pro-house which is located in AZ, which is located in the United States last time I checked, and EG is an American based team last time I checked. Hmm.. weird.
Does Puma have a citizenship of any sort in the states?
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
Sheth didn't get a GSL seed from MLG. He got an invite into Code A.
Are you really trying to argue that Sheth is better than the NASL, IEM Cologne winner? Come on dude.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Select lives in America. He is a Korean American.
PuMa lives in the EG pro-house which is located in AZ, which is located in the United States last time I checked, and EG is an American based team last time I checked. Hmm.. weird.
Ummm, PuMa lives in the SlayerS house. Be gone troll.
Puma > Sheth Demu > Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
By judging skill alone, this will be what happens. Since this is a grudge/ego high running match tho, anything can happen. If ret pulls the upset and liquid gets lucky with a 2-2 they lose though.
People keep saying HuK will be EG ace, when it wont be. Puma will be, and he will crush any player they use (more than likely will be hero, and puma will smash him i expect).
I am not a puma fan, im a hero fan through and through, but im just being honest.
devPLEASE... Are you vastly uniformed? Or straight trolling? Regardless of citizenship and what not the fact is puma does NOT get and will not GSL invites unless he places first and gets the code S spot.
Demuslim is so awesome but I haven't heard anything about him since he left the EG house . Ret is just boss mode.
On November 09 2011 04:19 devPLEASE wrote: I somehow knew PuMa would cheese a player that is better than him... so bad.
I'm a Sheth fanboy, but he is not better than Puma. Anyway, ZvT is Sheth's weakest match up.
Sheth is light years better than PuMa, are you kidding me? Sheth made it into the Ro16 in Code A while that scrub PuMa can't even make it into Code A.
And PuMa won NASL while sheth got eliminated in the first round.
You are treating NASL like it has the prestige that GSL, even Code A, has. NASL didn't mean shit, considering the finals where all PuMa did was 1/1/1 MC.
Edit: Sheth got through via MLG, PuMa is considered a "favorite" in MLG as well, how come PuMa didn't make it in GSL the "easy" way also?
The exchange program doesn't allow Koreans. Puma is Korean. Hence, the exchange program does not give him a seed.
On topic, this game is hilariously back and forth.
SeleCT is Korean, he got to Code A through the program...
Select lives in America. He is a Korean American.
PuMa lives in the EG pro-house which is located in AZ, which is located in the United States last time I checked, and EG is an American based team last time I checked. Hmm.. weird.
Seriously stop being a troll; there is a difference between Puma and Select and FYI to make you further look more idiotic Puma lives in the Slayers house in Korea...
It's crazy how greedy Terrans are being lately in TvZ.
reactor hellion into double expo (at minerals), and skipping on unit production to power up with a ton of reactor rax + multi-fact + starport + double ebays
On November 09 2011 04:49 Asha` wrote: It's crazy how greedy Terrans are being lately in TvZ.
reactor hellion into double expo (at minerals), power up with a ton of reactor rax + multi-fact + starport and skipping a ton of units to make double ebay for upgrades.
I think that Demuslim can be a little bit greedier against a player like Ret who is really really greedy himself. Although he might be punished for not putting pressuring Ret at all.
On November 09 2011 04:49 Asha` wrote: It's crazy how greedy Terrans are being lately in TvZ.
reactor hellion into double expo (at minerals), power up with a ton of reactor rax + multi-fact + starport and skipping a ton of units to make double ebay for upgrades.
I think that Demuslim can be a little bit greedier against a player like Ret who is really really greedy himself. Although he might be punished for not putting pressuring Ret at all.
On November 09 2011 04:55 devPLEASE wrote: Lol, the casters didn't even mention Seal vs. Bomber on Bel'shir Beach when Seal had 70% of the map in creep...
===
Anyway, Ret looking great that series.
Given HerO should beat Machine and Huk should beat Haypro it looks like we might be heading to an ace match.
On November 09 2011 04:55 devPLEASE wrote: Lol, the casters didn't even mention Seal vs. Bomber on Bel'shir Beach when Seal had 70% of the map in creep...
lol that is hilarious lol or that one game on the ladder with that one streamer
On November 09 2011 04:56 jammedk wrote: How the F.... does he find the time to place 200 creep tumors... ?
He builds extra creep spreading queens, I believe.
Well, extra queens doesn't give him more time to place those tumors.
My theory is that it actually does not take Ret any time to place creep tumors. He spends all the time he has getting injects and building drones, and as a side effect, the tumors come into existence.
How does that work? I don't know. I am open to other hypotheses, but man, he has pretty good creep spread.
On November 09 2011 04:57 Tsubbi wrote: wth was up with demuslim this series? looked like a different person playing for him, im puzzled as to how poor his play was
I'm not surprised whatsoever. And this isn't an upset, Ret is just that much better.
On November 09 2011 04:56 jammedk wrote: How the F.... does he find the time to place 200 creep tumors... ?
He builds extra creep spreading queens, I believe.
Well, extra queens doesn't give him more time to place those tumors.
My theory is that it actually does not take Ret any time to place creep tumors. He spends all the time he has getting injects and building drones, and as a side effect, the tumors come into existence.
How does that work? I don't know. I am open to other hypotheses, but man, he has pretty good creep spread.
How does it happen so quickly? I'm not sure. We may never know. One of the mysteries of the professional scene.
It's strange for me. I have not seen THAT many RET games. But in the ones I have seen, he has always impressed me a LOT. At the same time everyone is always hyping the dude. Which fits I guess :-)
But... his results in larger tournaments have not been that good?
The style of Ret counters Demuslims style. Greedier than Demuslim, with a bit better multitask. Plus I've played Ret a couple times on ladder and he makes you look like a joke ZvT.
On November 09 2011 05:00 jammedk wrote: It's strange for me. I have not seen THAT many RET games. But in the ones I have seen, he has always impressed me a LOT. At the same time everyone is always hyping the dude. Which fits I guess :-)
But... his results in larger tournaments have not been that good?
Dunno, he won 2 big(ish) LAN events this year (Assembly and EU Blizzard Invitational over Nani/Thorzain), which is still better than the results many other foreigners have.
He's not posting the absolute best results he could, but he's not doing badly at all.
On November 09 2011 05:00 jammedk wrote: It's strange for me. I have not seen THAT many RET games. But in the ones I have seen, he has always impressed me a LOT. At the same time everyone is always hyping the dude. Which fits I guess :-)
But... his results in larger tournaments have not been that good?
Dunno, he won 2 big(ish) LAN events this year (Assembly and EU Blizzard Invitational over Nani/Thorzain), which is still better than the results many other foreigners have.
He's not posting the absolute best results he could, but he's not doing badly at all.
Sorry... I probably just watch to much of the majors. eg MLG et al. I just want him to show something big, in front of a huge audience, 'cause I really like his style :-)
On November 09 2011 05:00 McFeser wrote: Has DeMuslim ever taken a game off Ret? I know this isn't Ret's first 2-0 of him Edit: They are at 5-2 in favor of Ret
On November 09 2011 05:11 CutthroatCollapse wrote: aahhh, so close. But seriously why didnt they match up evenly skilled players, like haypro vs machine
whoever puts the matchups together could manipulate it in ones favor
On November 09 2011 05:11 CutthroatCollapse wrote: aahhh, so close. But seriously why didnt they match up evenly skilled players, like haypro vs machine
whoever puts the matchups together could manipulate it in ones favor
Nobody puts the matchups together, the teams pick their players for each set and submit blind (or based on starting map).
On November 09 2011 05:11 CutthroatCollapse wrote: aahhh, so close. But seriously why didnt they match up evenly skilled players, like haypro vs machine
whoever puts the matchups together could manipulate it in ones favor
Nobody puts the matchups together, the teams pick their players for each set and submit blind (or based on starting map).
Yeah. I just stated that it would be unfair otherwise.
On November 09 2011 05:17 devPLEASE wrote: To be completely honest, I would love to see IdrA play. He's actually the best player on EG, not just for results but for sheer skill.
Well, I say that during 50% of all the games I watch. Probably due to Idras cheery disposition.
On November 09 2011 04:55 devPLEASE wrote: Lol, the casters didn't even mention Seal vs. Bomber on Bel'shir Beach when Seal had 70% of the map in creep...
lol that is hilarious lol or that one game on the ladder with that one streamer
lol well played sir.
There are much broader issues that could be mentioned with regards to these casters, no need to get so nit picky devplease
Didn't really seem like Machine macroed at during that attack. He started with 95ish supply vs 70, then after some forcefield dancing it was even around 90, and then as blink kicked in Hero just destroyed his army.
I think this is sorta interesting: do people feel more allegiance to players or teams? I root for liquid pretty hard, and while I still root for HuK, I root against him vs liquid. I think I'm in the minority in terms of choosing team over player though.
On November 09 2011 05:24 Lixo wrote: Those games with Demuslim and Machine are actually pretty painful to watch. Doesn't stand up to pro level standards...
Ret games usually tend to look that way. He either crush his opponent or gets rolled (and sometimes he chokes). It's the consequence of his very greedy playstyle.
On November 09 2011 05:29 DamageControL wrote: I think this is sorta interesting: do people feel more allegiance to players or teams? I root for liquid pretty hard, and while I still root for HuK, I root against him vs liquid. I think I'm in the minority in terms of choosing team over player though.
I root against EG period.
Liquid is my number 1 to root for. Then it is dignitas/fnatic because some of their players are people I enjoy watching.
On November 09 2011 05:28 jammedk wrote: Well so far everything is going according to planned. Acematch with Huk vs Ret? Or would they choose other players? Hero maybe?
Replying to my self here...
Since this is not live, I wonder if Haypro is F5'ing this thread, knowing that he pulled an upset. Would be quite funny.
On November 09 2011 05:28 jammedk wrote: Well so far everything is going according to planned. Acematch with Huk vs Ret? Or would they choose other players? Hero maybe?
Replying to my self here...
Since this is not live, I wonder if Haypro is F5'ing this thread, knowing that he pulled an upset. Would be quite funny.
Incontrol was in this thread so he won the ace match!
Did sheth put up good games? Calling Ret as the ace - Puma's tvp too good to risk hero. Knowing this and that Ret's ZvT is dangerous, they'll put out Huk.
On November 09 2011 05:34 kuroshiro wrote: Did sheth put up good games? Calling Ret as the ace - Puma's tvp too good to risk hero. Knowing this and that Ret's ZvT is dangerous, they'll put out Huk.
Many excite ^_^
Sheth lost convincingly in a standard game 1, won convincingly in game 2, and then Puma busted out some Banshee coinflip build that killed Sheth's lair a second before Mutas popped out to clean shit up (though Sheth was kinda sloppy that game too).
Gah so frustrating, if Haypro played that a bit more precisely and didn't get supply blocked, he would have had 5-6 infestors 10 seconds earlier and in time for the fight. That would have looked a LOT different with 5 ready fungals.
You can't really blame HuK for messing around in games like these. Eventually, teams won't keep re-signing players who aren't good. It's just like GSL or MLG, eventually it all evens out.
Sigh these casters are horrible. Whoever is observing is so blind it hurts, somehow completely missed huk sending down his zealots to kill haypro's third (like wtf, they just saw then run down but didn't pay any attention to it), then completely missed him building a dark shrine aswell.
I feel so bad for Haypro. How does he have the heart to continue playing SC II competitively with losing nearly all of his games. Big props to his will power. Or is it stubbornness?
On November 09 2011 05:58 SkyTheUnknown wrote: I feel so bad for Haypro. How does he have the heart to continue playing SC II competitively with losing nearly all of his games. Big props to his will power. Or is it stubbornness?
I feel worse for alot of the Code B Koreans that are actually really good but have to live in crappy team houses and don't get a salary, or any fame. Haypro has it good IMO xD.
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Would you prefer them to yell and scream about the exciting openings of 3rax expand vs stargate FE?
On November 09 2011 05:58 SkyTheUnknown wrote: I feel so bad for Haypro. How does he have the heart to continue playing SC II competitively with losing nearly all of his games. Big props to his will power. Or is it stubbornness?
I feel worse for alot of the Code B Koreans that are actually really good but have to live in crappy team houses and don't get a salary, or any fame. Haypro has it good IMO xD.
Agreed, I don't think "sympathy" is the feeling I have for Haypro.
Jesus christ casters, you mentioned before that you were not going to talk about food. I tuned in at different times in between doing groceries, cooking dinner and so on and EVERY SINGLE TIME i tuned in you were talking about food.
Some potato place, hot wings, mcflurry conversations .. come on xD
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Even worse, the one guy had the audacity to call the entire viewership "3rd-graders" for pointing out that they weren't doing their JOBS.
Hopefully the observer doesn't miss anything this time...
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Even worse, the one guy had the audacity to call the entire viewership "3rd-graders" for pointing out that they weren't doing their JOBS.
Hopefully the observer doesn't miss anything this time...
Classic case of low level casters thinking the viewers are watching for the casters instead of the players.
The colossus transition just isn't that good imo, unless it catches the Terran completely off guard. Puma making 4 well upgraded vikings at a time, he will soon be able to exploit the lack of blink and anti air in general.
I used to think the colossus transition was amazing, but then I realised you HAD to have a good blink stalker ball to compliment it. Puma scouted it perfectly and Hero lost because of it.
Hey guys, I need to go to class now... I will update the OP with ace match results when I get home tonight! Enjoy the rest of the matches and make sure to tune in tomorrow!!
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Would you prefer them to yell and scream about the exciting openings of 3rax expand vs stargate FE?
I'd rather them describe what was happening, potential transitions, etc. Especially since they kept on about it well into the 10 minute mark, when the game was actually beginning to get good. They sound quite disinterested and keep trying to fill in the dead air even when action is occurring. It's pretty terrible to listen to.
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Would you prefer them to yell and scream about the exciting openings of 3rax expand vs stargate FE?
I'd rather them describe what was happening, potential transitions, etc. Especially since they kept on about it well into the 10 minute mark, when the game was actually beginning to get good. They sound quite disinterested and keep trying to fill in the dead air even when action is occurring. It's pretty terrible to listen to.
It's hard to talk about they game when they don't know what's going on
On November 09 2011 06:04 dinosrwar wrote: Just tuned in. Who the heck are these casters? They're just talking about MacDonalds food during the Ace Match? Seriously?
Would you prefer them to yell and scream about the exciting openings of 3rax expand vs stargate FE?
I'd rather them describe what was happening, potential transitions, etc. Especially since they kept on about it well into the 10 minute mark, when the game was actually beginning to get good. They sound quite disinterested and keep trying to fill in the dead air even when action is occurring. It's pretty terrible to listen to.
The most egregious part is when they miss major things, like Haypro's 3rd base going down in that game vs Huk, or Huk having a dark shrine in the same game, etc. But that's really the observer's fault more than the casters.
Technical criticism: I don't know which caster it is, but their mic or sound card sounds like it has an annoying "feature." If it's quiet, the mic or card cranks up the sensitivity to try and pick something up. This leads to shit like "AND WE'RE BACK LEt's go into the next game." I don't know if it's something you can turn off, but you should look into it. It blows my ears every time you start talking.
That was good play by Puma, Hero needs more map vision to stop that. He can't split his army to deal with 2 groups of MMM so he must prevent the drop from happening.
On November 09 2011 06:31 lolnoty wrote: Technical criticism: I don't know which caster it is, but their mic or sound card sounds like it has an annoying "feature." If it's quiet, the mic or card cranks up the sensitivity to try and pick something up. This leads to shit like "AND WE'RE BACK LEt's go into the next game." I don't know if it's something you can turn off, but you should look into it. It blows my ears every time you start talking.
Hmm getting a 3rd so you cant defend any of the bases... HerO keeps getting schooled by puma everytime they have a match. HerO is my second fav player, so makes me saaaaaad panda!
On November 09 2011 06:35 dinosrwar wrote: Man, I forgot how much I missed team league ever since the GSTL ended. Does anyone prefer this pro-league style to the king of the hill?
I find the King of the Hill style better. It can bring about stars who sweep entire teams. DRG would hardly be known if it weren't for KotH style.
On November 09 2011 06:35 monXikk wrote: EG clearly way better team than TL, even without IdrA. sup talin lol.
Puma is by far the best player of both teams. If EG was clearly better it wouldnt come down to an ace match. Would have loved to see Ret fight puma. We have seen puma take down herO enough imo.
On November 09 2011 06:35 monXikk wrote: EG clearly way better team than TL, even without IdrA. sup talin lol.
Puma is by far the best player of both teams. If EG was clearly better it wouldnt come down to an ace match. Would have loved to see Ret fight puma. We have seen puma take down herO enough imo.
PuMa bases so much on aggression, I think Hero had a better shot vs PuMa. With Puma vs Ret, Ret is already down 0-1 pretty much due to his dislike of Xel'Naga Caverns, which PuMa would pick.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
That's ridiculous. Right now Idra (who's not there) and Huk are both playing as good if not better than Puma. They could have easily sent out Huk who would be extremely favored vs anyone on Liquid except maybe Hero.
Proleague finals was way different. There was absolutely no chance anyone other than Flash was going out as ace. Best just played like shit in the match when he let Flash take an unpunished early third. Even with Best getting smashed twice I would still send him out again, unless I had a sick early game aggression from Bisu that would task Flash's multitask.
On November 09 2011 06:35 monXikk wrote: EG clearly way better team than TL, even without IdrA. sup talin lol.
Puma is by far the best player of both teams. If EG was clearly better it wouldnt come down to an ace match. Would have loved to see Ret fight puma. We have seen puma take down herO enough imo.
PuMa bases so much on aggression, I think Hero had a better shot vs PuMa. With Puma vs Ret, Ret is already down 0-1 pretty much due to his dislike of Xel'Naga Caverns, which PuMa would pick.
Even Sheth was (much) closer to taking down Puma than Hero, I can't see how Hero would possibly have a better chance in
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
Ret > Idra?
Umm... what?
Idra 3-0 White-Ra White-Ra 3-2 Ret
At ASUS recently. Idra also went on to win the whole thing (beating Sjow/White-Ra/Select) while Ret went home with no prize money, if I recall correctly.
On November 09 2011 06:35 monXikk wrote: EG clearly way better team than TL, even without IdrA. sup talin lol.
Puma is by far the best player of both teams. If EG was clearly better it wouldnt come down to an ace match. Would have loved to see Ret fight puma. We have seen puma take down herO enough imo.
PuMa bases so much on aggression, I think Hero had a better shot vs PuMa. With Puma vs Ret, Ret is already down 0-1 pretty much due to his dislike of Xel'Naga Caverns, which PuMa would pick.
Every ace match its HerO vs Puma, every ace match puma takes hero down. If herO takes a game puma will just 1/1/1 him the next 2 times! Id like to see Ret or Sheth try and take on puma for once. Puma obliterates every protoss in his way. And since TL has no top tier terran atm it has to come from the swarm!
You would assume neither team would know which player the other would send out...
It was highly possible Liquid thought EG might send out HuK who despite winning MLG against MC seems to have some real problems in PvP, hence them sending out HerO.
Unfortunately EG sent out PuMa who has some immense TvP and that was about the game.
On November 03 2011 01:05 JoeAWESOME wrote: Puma > Sheth (Gonna be the dealbreaker if Liquid wanna win this before the acematch, Sheth can do it. Giving him a 40% chance of winning)
Demuslin < Ret(This is the match that EG can win if they wanna close it out before an acematch, I can see Demuslin upseting Ret. Though I will put my money on Ret)
Machine < Hero(Nothing to say, Hero is going to Roflstomp Machine)
Huk > Haypro (Huk should take this game with ease)
The acematch will depend a lot on who EG decides to use. Liquid will use Hero and if EG responds with Huk I'll give it to Liquid but if they decide to use Puma then it's 50/50 imo.
Overall I think TL got the upperhand, they are doing amazing in all the teamleagues I've seen them in so I hope that they can keep it up!
On November 09 2011 06:35 monXikk wrote: EG clearly way better team than TL, even without IdrA. sup talin lol.
Puma is by far the best player of both teams. If EG was clearly better it wouldnt come down to an ace match. Would have loved to see Ret fight puma. We have seen puma take down herO enough imo.
PuMa bases so much on aggression, I think Hero had a better shot vs PuMa. With Puma vs Ret, Ret is already down 0-1 pretty much due to his dislike of Xel'Naga Caverns, which PuMa would pick.
Even Sheth was (much) closer to taking down Puma than Hero, I can't see how Hero would possibly have a better chance in
a) PvT b) vs Puma's TvP
Sheth is different from Ret though, I could've actually seen Sheth being the Ace, he beat HuK at BlizzCon qualifiers and played PuMa close in the first set.
Ret does not deal with aggression well, and he is absolutely horrendous (like Idra) on ZvT Xel'Naga Caverns.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
Sir, I don't quite I agree with you there. You're talking about the best foreign zergs that is also one of the best ZvTers and a zerg that isn't even top 3 of his race in Europe.
As much as I love Ret, he is most certainly not better than IdrA, their results speak for themselves especially when you compare how they play against top koreans
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
Ret > Idra?
Umm... what?
Idra 3-0 White-Ra White-Ra 3-2 Ret
At ASUS recently. Idra also went on to win the whole thing (beating Sjow/White-Ra/Select) while Ret went home with no prize money, if I recall correctly.
I don't disagree with the idea as a whole (Idra is currently playing better than ret), but please don't fucking do this. Starcraft is too complex a game to try and prove "X is better than Y" by saying "X beat Z, Z beat Y, therefore X is better than Y". It's a terrible argument that ignores how players match up with one another, how they were playing that day, the maps in question, and a whole host of other things that all can play into a series. A players skill isn't a number that they put up against eachother to see who wins.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
On November 09 2011 07:06 IMStyle wrote: then lets keep it simple. Idra greater then ret period. More accomplishments, more wins against more notable players.
Idra is doing better than Ret, but it's not the massive difference that a lot of people are making it out to be.
On November 09 2011 07:11 CeriseCherries wrote: why cant i fucking love IdrA and ret in peace? both have ups and downs, and are immensely good when playing well
Much truth in this. Both are somewhat inconsistent players, so comparing them using single tournaments is somewhat difficult.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.
I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway.
On November 09 2011 04:42 ohampatu wrote: Puma > Sheth Demu > Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
By judging skill alone, this will be what happens. Since this is a grudge/ego high running match tho, anything can happen. If ret pulls the upset and liquid gets lucky with a 2-2 they lose though.
People keep saying HuK will be EG ace, when it wont be. Puma will be, and he will crush any player they use (more than likely will be hero, and puma will smash him i expect).
I am not a puma fan, im a hero fan through and through, but im just being honest.
I am sorry, but I don't know why so many people think demuslim is better than ret... Just sayin
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.
Oh come on, we know we don't count online events lol...... Also IPL1 was played like 3 months before it was shown. But I don't know why people feel the need to compare players based on achievements
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.
I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway.
Yeah sorry, I don't have all of Idra and Ret's individual tournament placements memorized to a point, nor am I that good with math where I could give you a specific number on the spot. As it stands, in the past MLG's, IEMs, GSLs, etc, Idra almost always places higher than Ret. The only one I can think of Recently where he didn't was IPL3, where I think they tied? Or ret came in a couple places ahead. Obviously they are both terrific players, but I find it odd that someone actually thinks that Ret is more sucessful than Idra. (At least recently, I.E. past 6 months)
this isn't fanboyism either, my favorite foreigner zerg is Sen anyways -.-
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
Ret > Idra?
Umm... what?
Idra 3-0 White-Ra White-Ra 3-2 Ret
At ASUS recently. Idra also went on to win the whole thing (beating Sjow/White-Ra/Select) while Ret went home with no prize money, if I recall correctly.
I don't disagree with the idea as a whole (Idra is currently playing better than ret), but please don't fucking do this. Starcraft is too complex a game to try and prove "X is better than Y" by saying "X beat Z, Z beat Y, therefore X is better than Y". It's a terrible argument that ignores how players match up with one another, how they were playing that day, the maps in question, and a whole host of other things that all can play into a series. A players skill isn't a number that they put up against eachother to see who wins.
yea remember IEM? was it socke sjow and ace? who had a stupid amount of tie breakers to play
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote: Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Objectively speaking, Idra has won more than double the prize money that Ret has, and has more than double Ret's 1st place finishes in major tournaments (more than triple if you count Beta as well). He's also placed higher in every tournament that they've both participated in, except NASL1.
To even pretend that there results are remotely close is laughable.
Ret's not to be underestimated. I honestly think DeMuslim needs more exposure to the competitive scene before being a threat to a seasoned player like Ret.
Ret and Idra are very even. Both have their ups and downs. I mean ret does have 2 major tournament championships under his belt; winter assembly and battlenet EU invitational. Idra has many championships too, but many were from NA tournaments where only NA players played during that time(IPL season 1 and MLG DC) i think. EU players are much more harder too. And the 1 season where ret played in gsl, he did at least get into the ro32, the same as where idra got the first season of GSL. Ret is one of the few players Idra actually respects too.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
Haha Based on what? All are good players but atm I would say Hero and Idra are about even and Ret behind.
because hero 2-0ed idra the last time they played? I mean if we are going to do what everyone else is doing in this thread.....
Ya and IdrA 3-0 Puma It's impossible to do this X Y Z since race/playstyle/map/form plays a huge role in the outcome and also one minor mistake can swing the match.
The difference between Idra and Ret... Idra has shown some improvement in ZvP recently. Both have shown they are great at ZvT, though arguably Idra is better. Both can be beaten in ZvZ.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............
Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...
You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining
On November 09 2011 08:05 Sqq wrote: Can't believe some people even think Ret and IdrA are at the same level..
I would say they even in skill just think IdrA has a better practice environment atm and it starting to show. Would love to see a TL practice house but guess hard to sort since they so spread out county wise.
On November 09 2011 08:05 Sqq wrote: Can't believe some people even think Ret and IdrA are at the same level..
Idra is definitely better, but not by as much as some people said. I think it's just Idra's better practice environment. As soon as Puma went to EG, Idra starts posting really good results. I think if Ret had the same level of practice partners, the gap would be nonexistent.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............
Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...
You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining
all you are doing is arguing about naniwa, not ret.
do you seriously think anyone actually competes in MLG for the prizemoney?... "almost taking the series against nestea''? all your arguments are illogical. and dont help your case.
On November 09 2011 08:05 Sqq wrote: Can't believe some people even think Ret and IdrA are at the same level..
I would say they even in skill just think IdrA has a better practice environment atm and it starting to show. Would love to see a TL practice house but guess hard to sort since they so spread out county wise.
they have two pro houses... one in Korea( you know, with that little team noone ever heard of called oGs)-this is sarcasm btw. and the EU house where TLO, Haypro, and other EU pros are living. and with the exception of Korean teams, ALL of the major teams are spread out all over the place.
As a humble specatator, The problem with Liquid players, is that the majority dont seem to really care if they are the best. At the end of 2010, when Liquid was setting up the oGs house deal. ALL of their players except for Tyler were going. now, only a Korean native, and Jinro are there. Liquid went from being the "the" powerhouse to more or a poster child for the community. They had a massive advantage over every foreign team, and basically all the Korean ones, and they squandered it. With the exception of Hero, they have become a face of the community, not a real competitor.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............
Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...
You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining
all you are doing is arguing about naniwa, not ret.
do you seriously think anyone actually competes in MLG for the prizemoney?... "almost taking the series against nestea''? all your arguments are illogical. and dont help your case.
On November 09 2011 08:05 Sqq wrote: Can't believe some people even think Ret and IdrA are at the same level..
I would say they even in skill just think IdrA has a better practice environment atm and it starting to show. Would love to see a TL practice house but guess hard to sort since they so spread out county wise.
they have two pro houses... one in Korea( you know, with that little team noone ever heard of called oGs)-this is sarcasm btw. and the EU house where TLO, Haypro, and other EU pros are living. and with the exception of Korean teams, ALL of the major teams are spread out all over the place.
As a humble specatator, The problem with Liquid players, is that the majority dont seem to really care if they are the best. At the end of 2010, when Liquid was setting up the oGs house deal. ALL of their players except for Tyler were going. now, only a Korean native, and Jinro are there. Liquid went from being the "the" powerhouse to more or a poster child for the community. They had a massive advantage over every foreign team, and basically all the Korean ones, and they squandered it. With the exception of Hero, they have become a face of the community, not a real competitor.
On November 09 2011 08:38 Cosmology wrote: lol people comparing Ret to IdrA, not even close, IdrA is just on a whole differnet level.
No, he's not.
This is just silly, there is not that big of a gap between the two (if at all).
As much as it pains me, Idra has won a lot more in terms of both money and tournaments. You could argue that only his name got him qualified but lets be honest.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............
Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...
You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining
Naniwa just lost to Sen, 2-0, and Soccer 2-0. Who? Soccer is just your run of the mill Code A Protoss. Naniwa is gonna get rolled by Lucky in Code A, then maybe he'll stop being over hyped.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
Eh, which team are you referring to? =)
Basically KT Rolster. KT pretty much had one great player (Flash) this year, because their Zerg (Luxury) was banned for match-fixing, and their protoss (violet) got cancer or something. KT Rolster was even known, in ~2008, as KTFlash, because he'd completely carry the team. They beat SKT T1, a stacked team, in proleague finals.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
Ret-
Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans
Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three.
and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys.
and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled
So when did falling off the map get you invited to blizcon, and at at said blizcon you take 4th place? Seriously need to stop being some fanboy and really look at results. Yes idra has achieved more than ret, no naniwa has not fallen off the map...............
Btw, top 4 blizcon is more money than winning an mlg.... so yeah... but I guess naniwas 4th place doesn't count because idra is not there...
You can't just look at results people... Saying that naniwa has fallen off the map, or would have, is a really stupid thing to say considering he has only went to one mlg and played in code A twice.... Oh yeah and the 4th place at blizcon that you omitted. Btw his run at blizcon almost involved taking a series against nestea. But like I said this is not the important part, look at how naniwa plays now to how most other foreign protoss do. His style has been changed, and this takes time to do. The naniwa we are seeing now is by far stronger, and more entertaining
Naniwa just lost to Sen, 2-0, and Soccer 2-0. Who? Soccer is just your run of the mill Code A Protoss. Naniwa is gonna get rolled by Lucky in Code A, then maybe he'll stop being over hyped.
Pshyeah, run of the mill Code A players. What noobs.
Anyways...
All this arguing is kinda silly. TL and EG are both great teams... but the really important thing is that EG has considerably more depth. Hero, cool. Maybe Ret. Then who? Sheth, meh. Tyler and TLO and Haypro? LOL.
EG... HuK, IdrA, and Puma? You're gonna almost certainly be favored, ezpz. Then DeMuslim, who's no chump. And then you have the not-so-greats of iNcontroL, Machine, etc.
When it comes to a team tournament, EG is going to have the advantage over TL, especially if EG has access to its whole roster (EG didn't even use IdrA this time) or if there are more games being played. They have more amazing players.
For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote: For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
Yeah I bet they lose on purpose to show people how good they are.
On November 09 2011 04:42 ohampatu wrote: Puma > Sheth Demu > Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro
By judging skill alone, this will be what happens. Since this is a grudge/ego high running match tho, anything can happen. If ret pulls the upset and liquid gets lucky with a 2-2 they lose though.
People keep saying HuK will be EG ace, when it wont be. Puma will be, and he will crush any player they use (more than likely will be hero, and puma will smash him i expect).
I am not a puma fan, im a hero fan through and through, but im just being honest.
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote: For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
I can assure you that every member of TL would shoot this down in an instant. They're of course proud of their website or whatever, but they are first and foremost competitors and have the mindset of wanting to win at the top of their agendas. Also kinda ignorant to not know what EG has done, but that's an entirely different topic. I'm pretty confident that they would all tell you that anything short of a win is a disappointment for them.
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote: For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
I can assure you that every member of TL would shoot this down in an instant. They're of course proud of their website or whatever, but they are first and foremost competitors and have the mindset of wanting to win at the top of their agendas. Also kinda ignorant to not know what EG has done, but that's an entirely different topic. I'm pretty confident that they would all tell you that anything short of a win is a disappointment for them.
I'm not saying they don't want to win. Who doesn't want to win? Everyone does, and I'd love to see TL win. But I'm just saying my expectations for the TL team are very different based on the context of the team itself.
Ret should have been sent out instead of Hero for Ace match. Hero only makes since if TL was expecting Idra. Against Puma or Huk, Ret would have had a better chance.
On November 09 2011 06:34 Horse...falcon wrote: TL's dead
TL got outpicked tbh.
It's like watching Proleague finals all over again... losing to a team with 1 top player. -_-
If EG only has 1 top player, than TL has 0. Seriously, EG's top 3 players are better than anyone on TL.
Both hero and ret are better than Idra - Puma and Huk are about equal to hero
How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form.
Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero.
I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU.
Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger.
Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch.
And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly.
I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway.
Yeah sorry, I don't have all of Idra and Ret's individual tournament placements memorized to a point, nor am I that good with math where I could give you a specific number on the spot. As it stands, in the past MLG's, IEMs, GSLs, etc, Idra almost always places higher than Ret. The only one I can think of Recently where he didn't was IPL3, where I think they tied? Or ret came in a couple places ahead. Obviously they are both terrific players, but I find it odd that someone actually thinks that Ret is more sucessful than Idra. (At least recently, I.E. past 6 months)
this isn't fanboyism either, my favorite foreigner zerg is Sen anyways -.-
Very well said, neither ret nor idra is my favorite zerg player but strictly speaking recent results idra has an edge, that said I still very much enjoy rets play whereas the only MU I like out of idra is his ZvT. Anyways nice comment in the midst of people feeling the need to pick at your comment despite its obvious offhandedness, no normal person would assume you actually thought you knew the exact percentage of tournaments idra was placed higher in.
jinro's admitted hes been unmotivated the past few months, tylers been hardcore practicing, TLO is still recovering from carpal tunnel, liquid is nowhere near as great as theyre capable of.
also, puma's a TvP specialist. it was just bad luck that liquid's best player gives the other team the perfect matchup.
On November 09 2011 14:24 courtpanda wrote: jinro's admitted hes been unmotivated the past few months, tylers been hardcore practicing, TLO is still recovering from carpal tunnel, liquid is nowhere near as great as theyre capable of.
also, puma's a TvP specialist. it was just bad luck that liquid's best player gives the other team the perfect matchup.
Puma's TvP is his best, but I'd hardly call him a specialist. In NASL S1 he 2-0'd Ret and 3-1'd July, which are not small feats. He's also done very well at MLGs in pool play, and in the championship bracket eliminated Polt 2-0.
Saying Puma is a TvP specialist is like saying Idra is a ZvT specialist, or Select is a TvP specialist (or Elfi is a PvP specialist... lol)
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote: For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
Sorry, but that is just completely wrong.
Every team, and every player is about winning every single tournament they enter. TL has done an enormous amount for esports for an extremely long time in areas other than playing, but how do you equate this to mean that they are 'much less competitively-oriented' than EG?
Also, don't disregard what EG has done for the community. They host the EG masters cup, a great foreign clan war, and they regularly release plenty of other content as well.
You are coming across as simply trying to find an excuse for TL's loss.
On November 09 2011 10:06 xXFireandIceXx wrote: For all the people going "EG pwn some TL newbies", just remember the mindset of each team. TL, the team, is much less competitively-oriented by EG. Of course, both want to win (who doesn't), but I think it's pretty obvious TL isn't about winning every single tourney. But above all that, TL, the site, has done so much more for the community than EG lol. Good win by EG. But TL always gonna get my cheer!
Sorry, but that is just completely wrong.
Every team, and every player is about winning every single tournament they enter. TL has done an enormous amount for esports for an extremely long time in areas other than playing, but how do you equate this to mean that they are 'much less competitively-oriented' than EG?
Also, don't disregard what EG has done for the community. They host the EG masters cup, a great foreign clan war, and they regularly release plenty of other content as well.
You are coming across as simply trying to find an excuse for TL's loss.
Gratz to EG for the victory
Again, I'm not saying TLAF doesn't want to win. And again, I'm not saying EG isn't important to the community. But yes, I can understand why TL lost. I want the home team to win with all my heart, but I just have different expectations for different teams. Please just read what I actually wrote. I'm not maligning EG or saying TL doesn't want to win.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/GpEHu.png)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Flw90.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RUDre.png)
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It's impossible to do this X Y Z since race/playstyle/map/form plays a huge role in the outcome and also one minor mistake can swing the match.
