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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
On November 03 2011 00:28 refmac_cys.cys wrote: Puma > Sheth Demuslim < Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro Ace-Hero> Huk 2:1! gogo Liquid! Good, except that you though HuK would be the EG Ace over Puma. | ||
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Kibibit
United States1551 Posts
On November 09 2011 06:42 FairForever wrote: Ret > Idra? Umm... what? Idra 3-0 White-Ra White-Ra 3-2 Ret At ASUS recently. Idra also went on to win the whole thing (beating Sjow/White-Ra/Select) while Ret went home with no prize money, if I recall correctly. I don't disagree with the idea as a whole (Idra is currently playing better than ret), but please don't fucking do this. Starcraft is too complex a game to try and prove "X is better than Y" by saying "X beat Z, Z beat Y, therefore X is better than Y". It's a terrible argument that ignores how players match up with one another, how they were playing that day, the maps in question, and a whole host of other things that all can play into a series. A players skill isn't a number that they put up against eachother to see who wins. | ||
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IMStyle
Canada52 Posts
Idra greater then ret period. More accomplishments, more wins against more notable players. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 09 2011 06:50 Tranqje wrote: How do you objectivly say that? Idra has by far better results than ret in general, i can kinda get idra, huk and hero being about equal, i'd probably put the edge with idra seeing his recent form. Puma just destroys protoss in general, i dont think he's ever lost to hero. I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU. Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger. Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch. | ||
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CeriseCherries
6170 Posts
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Rinny
United States616 Posts
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Kibibit
United States1551 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:06 IMStyle wrote: then lets keep it simple. Idra greater then ret period. More accomplishments, more wins against more notable players. Idra is doing better than Ret, but it's not the massive difference that a lot of people are making it out to be. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:11 CeriseCherries wrote: why cant i fucking love IdrA and ret in peace? both have ups and downs, and are immensely good when playing well Much truth in this. Both are somewhat inconsistent players, so comparing them using single tournaments is somewhat difficult. | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote: I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU. Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger. Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch. And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly. | ||
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Redox
Germany24794 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:16 1Eris1 wrote: And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly. I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway. | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On November 09 2011 04:42 ohampatu wrote: Puma > Sheth Demu > Ret Machine < Hero Huk > Haypro By judging skill alone, this will be what happens. Since this is a grudge/ego high running match tho, anything can happen. If ret pulls the upset and liquid gets lucky with a 2-2 they lose though. People keep saying HuK will be EG ace, when it wont be. Puma will be, and he will crush any player they use (more than likely will be hero, and puma will smash him i expect). I am not a puma fan, im a hero fan through and through, but im just being honest. I am sorry, but I don't know why so many people think demuslim is better than ret... Just sayin | ||
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Yamulo
United States2096 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:16 1Eris1 wrote: And then you have to look at tournaments where neither of them won...which in most most of them (90%) Idra placed considerably higher. Rets wins are also from quite a while back. You could toss in IdrA's GSL Results or IPL1 if your going to account Assembly. Oh come on, we know we don't count online events lol...... Also IPL1 was played like 3 months before it was shown. But I don't know why people feel the need to compare players based on achievements | ||
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1Eris1
United States5797 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:19 Redox wrote: I am so sure you just pulled this number out of your ass. But I guess I am leaving it there these fanboy discussions dont make much sense anyway. Yeah sorry, I don't have all of Idra and Ret's individual tournament placements memorized to a point, nor am I that good with math where I could give you a specific number on the spot. As it stands, in the past MLG's, IEMs, GSLs, etc, Idra almost always places higher than Ret. The only one I can think of Recently where he didn't was IPL3, where I think they tied? Or ret came in a couple places ahead. Obviously they are both terrific players, but I find it odd that someone actually thinks that Ret is more sucessful than Idra. (At least recently, I.E. past 6 months) this isn't fanboyism either, my favorite foreigner zerg is Sen anyways -.- | ||
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ThatGuy89
United Kingdom1968 Posts
On November 09 2011 06:55 Kibibit wrote: I don't disagree with the idea as a whole (Idra is currently playing better than ret), but please don't fucking do this. Starcraft is too complex a game to try and prove "X is better than Y" by saying "X beat Z, Z beat Y, therefore X is better than Y". It's a terrible argument that ignores how players match up with one another, how they were playing that day, the maps in question, and a whole host of other things that all can play into a series. A players skill isn't a number that they put up against eachother to see who wins. yea remember IEM? was it socke sjow and ace? who had a stupid amount of tie breakers to play who won this? stream aint on | ||
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cavalier117
United States430 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote: I dont want to take any sides here, but I dont get this opinion. Main tournament results for Idra were winning IEM China and recently winning this one Invitational in Finland. While Ret won Assembly Winter and Blizzard Invitatonal EU. Objectively one would have to say that Rets 2 wins were bigger and more importantly that the competition there was bigger. Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch. Ret- Assembly Winter 2011 = zero Koreans Blizzcon EU invitational = zero Koreans - although Ret did get the easily the hardest bracket possible, rolling through Strelok, Thorzain, and Naniwa twice. however considering since Naniwa went to Korea, he has basically fallen off the map and hasnt produced any notable results whatsoever. noone has really said it, but i would consider him slumping after since at least Homestory cup three. and that's is literally it for big name tournies ever since the game released (dont even kid yourselves, small online cups dont count) he hasnt even gotten any top 4 positions in big tournys like MLG/IEM/Dreamhack/etc, just 2 golds in "non-competitive"(no koreans) tourneys. IdrA and thats not even counting tournys they have both been in, and guess who usually always placed higher? i think it's safe to say that this argument has been settled | ||
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
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WolfintheSheep
Canada14127 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:07 Redox wrote: Maybe one could argue that the overall results are about equal, but claiming that Idra has far better results than Ret is a real stretch. Objectively speaking, Idra has won more than double the prize money that Ret has, and has more than double Ret's 1st place finishes in major tournaments (more than triple if you count Beta as well). He's also placed higher in every tournament that they've both participated in, except NASL1. To even pretend that there results are remotely close is laughable. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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Trowa127
United Kingdom1230 Posts
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cavalier117
United States430 Posts
On November 09 2011 07:46 IPA wrote: This arguing about Idra and Ret is petty and embarrassing. Can we move on? They're both ridiculously sick. this is an acceptable conclusion :D check out the zerg invites to Dreamhack Winter 2011 i predict some zerg roflstomping will commence. | ||
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