On October 22 2011 23:05 AxionSteel wrote: It depends what you mean by A-Team, Grubby might not be top 3 protoss in EU, but he's still a top european player. Europe has a lot more depth than NA.
A-team would be the top10 in any particular region, no? I mean, how big are your teams O_o
So when you look at Europe, you have Mana, nerchio, stephano, thorzain, naniwa, jinro, sjow, sase, hasuobs, socke, dimaga, morrow, Kas, White Ra, Strelok etc etc, that's far more than 10, and there's many more, I don't think you can say there's only ten A team players in Europe. I'd rather rank by tiers, all of them are top European players, and I'd put Grubby and Cloud as a top tier European player as well. 2nd Tier would probably include LiveZerg, though.
I just wouldn't put Grubby/Cloud on the same level as Whitera/Thorzain at all, and if they are, they haven't shown it in terms of results.
Perhaps ClouD is overall not on the level of ThorZaIN, but TvT wise ClouD is better.
Grubby would be the second tier of protosses at the moment I THINK, behind Nani/Sase/MaNa, but he can beat all of them. Don't really know that for certain, seeing as we haven't seen too much of him since he went to Korea.
Also, results are not everything, and White-Ra doesn't have that great results either.
I highly doubt you can say ClouD is better tvt than thorzain based one one series :S ThorZaiN definitely had his chances, i'd back him in a Bo7 any day of the week.
Grubby looks really really strong lately, saw him streaming from Korea, looked good. Obviously can't call him top 3 or 4 protoss in EU, but he's a top EU player now IMO.
I'm not basing it on that one series ;p.
Before he broke his hand/arm his marine/tank play was among the best, and TZ's can look shaky.
Disagree, thorzains tvt has always been good. Maybe ClouD is really good atm but before he broke his arm he certainly wasn't the top TvT player in Europe.
ClouD Career stats in TvT is 50%, ThorZaiN's is 64%.
3:00 - standard openings by both players - gate, gas, core.
4:30 - MC adds second gas, Mana has not.
5:30 - Mana is 4 gating, MC adds 2 gates. Mana catches MC's stalker out on the map.
7:00 - Mana loses early units out on the map, MC takes out the forward pylons nullifying Mana's 4 gate. Mana now adding a second gas and a robo. MC getting twilight council
8:00 - Blink on the way for MC, robo completes for Mana who is chrono'ing out an observer. Supplies are even.
9:00 - Mana building a warp prism. MC supply blocked, as blink completes for MC. Zealot drop on the way for Mana
11:00 - Mana's zealot drop causing chaos for MC who has stopped all mining and MC bringing his base back. Big supply lead for Mana, 15 probes to 26 - Mana in the lead. Mana has his own Twilight council on the way.
12:30 - 80 supply to Mana versus 56 for MC. MC getting a robo but is in a bad shape. Mana moving out on the map looking for proxy pylons.
On October 22 2011 23:05 AxionSteel wrote: It depends what you mean by A-Team, Grubby might not be top 3 protoss in EU, but he's still a top european player. Europe has a lot more depth than NA.
A-team would be the top10 in any particular region, no? I mean, how big are your teams O_o
So when you look at Europe, you have Mana, nerchio, stephano, thorzain, naniwa, jinro, sjow, sase, hasuobs, socke, dimaga, morrow, Kas, White Ra, Strelok etc etc, that's far more than 10, and there's many more, I don't think you can say there's only ten A team players in Europe. I'd rather rank by tiers, all of them are top European players, and I'd put Grubby and Cloud as a top tier European player as well. 2nd Tier would probably include LiveZerg, though.
I just wouldn't put Grubby/Cloud on the same level as Whitera/Thorzain at all, and if they are, they haven't shown it in terms of results.
Perhaps ClouD is overall not on the level of ThorZaIN, but TvT wise ClouD is better.
Grubby would be the second tier of protosses at the moment I THINK, behind Nani/Sase/MaNa, but he can beat all of them. Don't really know that for certain, seeing as we haven't seen too much of him since he went to Korea.
Also, results are not everything, and White-Ra doesn't have that great results either.
I highly doubt you can say ClouD is better tvt than thorzain based one one series :S ThorZaiN definitely had his chances, i'd back him in a Bo7 any day of the week.
Grubby looks really really strong lately, saw him streaming from Korea, looked good. Obviously can't call him top 3 or 4 protoss in EU, but he's a top EU player now IMO.
I'm not basing it on that one series ;p.
Before he broke his hand/arm his marine/tank play was among the best, and TZ's can look shaky.
Disagree, thorzains tvt has always been good. Maybe ClouD is really good atm but before he broke his arm he certainly wasn't the top TvT player in Europe.
ClouD Career stats in TvT is 50%, ThorZaiN's is 64%.
That is also because he ALWAYS lost against Goody, his TvT was really good, except he always lost to Goody.
3:00 - standard openings by both players - gate, gas, core.
4:30 - MC adds second gas, Mana has not.
5:30 - Mana is 4 gating, MC adds 2 gates. Mana catches MC's stalker out on the map.
7:00 - Mana loses early units out on the map, MC takes out the forward pylons nullifying Mana's 4 gate. Mana now adding a second gas and a robo. MC getting twilight council
8:00 - Blink on the way for MC, robo completes for Mana who is chrono'ing out an observer. Supplies are even.
9:00 - Mana building a warp prism. MC supply blocked, as blink completes for MC. Zealot drop on the way for Mana
11:00 - Mana's zealot drop causing chaos for MC who has stopped all mining and MC bringing his base back. Big supply lead for Mana, 15 probes to 26 - Mana in the lead. Mana has his own Twilight council on the way.
12:30 - 80 supply to Mana versus 56 for MC. MC getting a robo but is in a bad shape. Mana moving out on the map looking for proxy pylons.
13:30 - Mana moving his army to MC's base, with Warp Prism in tow
EPT
