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Funtime is over, start behaving in here. You all know the rules and this isn't the place for some kind of comments or discussion. Keep it to the games and keep balance, the casters and meta discussions out of here.
Pretty please, with minerals on top. |
On September 20 2011 01:00 ladyumbra wrote:
@ Blasphemi
Where would you put MMA and DRG then? I mean both of them are in code S but both used mlg to get there, if a foreigner happens to get code s from MLG do they then count under your rating ( honest question?)
Back on topic I am proud of Select and Sjow for making it to the next round. I don't like either of their chances against their next opponents but they at least accomplished something today. Game 3 of Maka vs Sjow was my favorite today, both players made a lot of mistakes but that just lead to be being more tense and excited to see was going to finally get their act together and win.
MMA's performance in the super tournament, AOL and in last seasons Code S proves he deserves Code S imo.
DRG still has a lot of questions marks over him for me. Obviously he's really good but his ticket into Code S was very much through the back door and he should have done a lot better in Code A than he did last season.
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On September 20 2011 01:00 FireEagle wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 00:20 Choboo wrote:On September 20 2011 00:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 00:05 ForlornHope wrote:On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:19 Ammanas wrote:On September 19 2011 22:14 Blasphemi wrote:
MC is still the best Protoss player in the world by some distance, Protoss is just so bad right now. no he is not (sadly) So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. White-Ra am cry. Mana has also had a good run lately. Hero as well. If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. you are an idiot so shut up pls. White-ra is code S level if not better than some in code S right now and for Mana he is the best Mouz player that mean he is even better than Thorzain who is considered by many is code S quality Massive lol at White Ra being Code S level. He's not even Code B level. Mana's on a streak. He has no significant tournament wins though and if you're not in Korea you are nothing because you're not proving yourself against the best. 95% of the top 100 Sc2 players are Korean, if you're not playing those guys you're not worth discussing in terms of who is the best at anything. Puma 5-2, Nada 2-0, Thorzain 3-0 Sup son? I'm pretty sure Mana is in the run for best PvT People tend to forget very easily. White-Ra could win the GSL if he really wanted to. He is the best foreign player in terms of money winnings and he is the only SC2 player up to date to have beaten a TBLS member in their prime. Sure, Nada, Boxer, MVP, July have wins against TBLS, but as far as I remember, only White-Ra has won agains a TBLS when he was dominating. WCG 2007, which was between MSL final against Bisu and OSL silver. With proper preparation, I'm sure he could dominate hardcore. But he is a Khan toss kind of player, he can win against anyone, can lose against anyone.
I think this is probably a joke. White Ra isn't even in the top three foreign Protoss right now, nevermind Code S level.
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On September 20 2011 01:13 -Strider- wrote:
I have the feeling that we are going to have a PvP finals, or PvZ
haha, good joke.
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I couldn't get myself to watch all games, but JYP won, and after the tragedy of MC, that was all that mattered.
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On September 20 2011 01:16 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:00 FireEagle wrote:On September 20 2011 00:20 Choboo wrote:On September 20 2011 00:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 00:05 ForlornHope wrote:On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:19 Ammanas wrote:On September 19 2011 22:14 Blasphemi wrote:
MC is still the best Protoss player in the world by some distance, Protoss is just so bad right now. no he is not (sadly) So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. White-Ra am cry. Mana has also had a good run lately. Hero as well. If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. you are an idiot so shut up pls. White-ra is code S level if not better than some in code S right now and for Mana he is the best Mouz player that mean he is even better than Thorzain who is considered by many is code S quality Massive lol at White Ra being Code S level. He's not even Code B level. Mana's on a streak. He has no significant tournament wins though and if you're not in Korea you are nothing because you're not proving yourself against the best. 95% of the top 100 Sc2 players are Korean, if you're not playing those guys you're not worth discussing in terms of who is the best at anything. Puma 5-2, Nada 2-0, Thorzain 3-0 Sup son? I'm pretty sure Mana is in the run for best PvT People tend to forget very easily. White-Ra could win the GSL if he really wanted to. He is the best foreign player in terms of money winnings and he is the only SC2 player up to date to have beaten a TBLS member in their prime. Sure, Nada, Boxer, MVP, July have wins against TBLS, but as far as I remember, only White-Ra has won agains a TBLS when he was dominating. WCG 2007, which was between MSL final against Bisu and OSL silver. With proper preparation, I'm sure he could dominate hardcore. But he is a Khan toss kind of player, he can win against anyone, can lose against anyone. I think this is probably a joke. White Ra isn't even in the top three foreign Protoss right now, nevermind Code S level.
To be fair, top 3 foreign Protoss is almost top 3 Protoss in the world at this point (Huk, Sase, Mana and maybe Nani)
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White Ra is up there, he won IPL2 quite recently taking out Select, Mana, Nerchio etc.
Sase has no results, you can't say he's top5 foreign protoss
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On September 20 2011 01:18 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 01:00 FireEagle wrote:On September 20 2011 00:20 Choboo wrote:On September 20 2011 00:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 00:05 ForlornHope wrote:On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:19 Ammanas wrote:
[quote]
no he is not (sadly) So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. White-Ra am cry. Mana has also had a good run lately. Hero as well. If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. you are an idiot so shut up pls. White-ra is code S level if not better than some in code S right now and for Mana he is the best Mouz player that mean he is even better than Thorzain who is considered by many is code S quality Massive lol at White Ra being Code S level. He's not even Code B level. Mana's on a streak. He has no significant tournament wins though and if you're not in Korea you are nothing because you're not proving yourself against the best. 95% of the top 100 Sc2 players are Korean, if you're not playing those guys you're not worth discussing in terms of who is the best at anything. Puma 5-2, Nada 2-0, Thorzain 3-0 Sup son? I'm pretty sure Mana is in the run for best PvT People tend to forget very easily. White-Ra could win the GSL if he really wanted to. He is the best foreign player in terms of money winnings and he is the only SC2 player up to date to have beaten a TBLS member in their prime. Sure, Nada, Boxer, MVP, July have wins against TBLS, but as far as I remember, only White-Ra has won agains a TBLS when he was dominating. WCG 2007, which was between MSL final against Bisu and OSL silver. With proper preparation, I'm sure he could dominate hardcore. But he is a Khan toss kind of player, he can win against anyone, can lose against anyone. I think this is probably a joke. White Ra isn't even in the top three foreign Protoss right now, nevermind Code S level. To be fair, top 3 foreign Protoss is almost top 3 Protoss in the world at this point (Huk, Sase, Mana and maybe Nani)
hey i dont wanna sound like another asshole, like most of the people here who are over opinionated, but the foriegn protoss arent nearly as good as the top koreans, sage, puzzle ect
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On September 20 2011 01:18 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 01:00 FireEagle wrote:On September 20 2011 00:20 Choboo wrote:On September 20 2011 00:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 00:05 ForlornHope wrote:On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:19 Ammanas wrote:
[quote]
no he is not (sadly) So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. White-Ra am cry. Mana has also had a good run lately. Hero as well. If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. you are an idiot so shut up pls. White-ra is code S level if not better than some in code S right now and for Mana he is the best Mouz player that mean he is even better than Thorzain who is considered by many is code S quality Massive lol at White Ra being Code S level. He's not even Code B level. Mana's on a streak. He has no significant tournament wins though and if you're not in Korea you are nothing because you're not proving yourself against the best. 95% of the top 100 Sc2 players are Korean, if you're not playing those guys you're not worth discussing in terms of who is the best at anything. Puma 5-2, Nada 2-0, Thorzain 3-0 Sup son? I'm pretty sure Mana is in the run for best PvT People tend to forget very easily. White-Ra could win the GSL if he really wanted to. He is the best foreign player in terms of money winnings and he is the only SC2 player up to date to have beaten a TBLS member in their prime. Sure, Nada, Boxer, MVP, July have wins against TBLS, but as far as I remember, only White-Ra has won agains a TBLS when he was dominating. WCG 2007, which was between MSL final against Bisu and OSL silver. With proper preparation, I'm sure he could dominate hardcore. But he is a Khan toss kind of player, he can win against anyone, can lose against anyone. I think this is probably a joke. White Ra isn't even in the top three foreign Protoss right now, nevermind Code S level. To be fair, top 3 foreign Protoss is almost top 3 Protoss in the world at this point (Huk, Sase, Mana and maybe Nani)
The foreign scene has really, really bad Terran players compared to Korea so Protoss looks nowhere near as crap outside of Korea. The difference between Korean Protoss and foreign is much smaller, but Sase and Naniwa are still having a bad time in Korea and if Mana played there he would too.
Huk keeps picking/getting very easy groups for himself so he's staying in Code S before he gets rolled by the first decent player he meets (MVP, MC, Bomber etc..)
Talking about best Protoss right now is impossible cause they're all really bad. Hongun has the best results of anyone recently, and he's Hongun...
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On September 20 2011 01:14 Blasphemi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:00 ladyumbra wrote:
@ Blasphemi
Where would you put MMA and DRG then? I mean both of them are in code S but both used mlg to get there, if a foreigner happens to get code s from MLG do they then count under your rating ( honest question?)
Back on topic I am proud of Select and Sjow for making it to the next round. I don't like either of their chances against their next opponents but they at least accomplished something today. Game 3 of Maka vs Sjow was my favorite today, both players made a lot of mistakes but that just lead to be being more tense and excited to see was going to finally get their act together and win. MMA's performance in the super tournament, AOL and in last seasons Code S proves he deserves Code S imo. DRG still has a lot of questions marks over him for me. Obviously he's really good but his ticket into Code S was very much through the back door and he should have done a lot better in Code A than he did last season.
Lol, so we're going to ignore MMA's 4 times in Code A without getting to Code S?
Yet DRG got in "through the back door". Winning the LG 3D special event, Dreamhack, and carrying his team single handedly through GSTL isn't enough? But apparently failing to qualify for Code S 4 consecutive times is.
MMA's fans annoy me when they ignore his flaws while criticizing other players.
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On September 20 2011 01:22 hugman wrote:
White Ra is up there, he won IPL2 quite recently taking out Select, Mana, Nerchio etc.
Sase has no results, you can't say he's top5 foreign protoss
I was going to say Huk, Naniwa and Mana. Huk and Naniwa have had better results than White Ra easilly in the last four months or so. Mana has done consistantly well at a lot of foreign things so he edges out White Ra.
You're right about Sase, he has a load of hype on the back of living in Korea but his only results there so far was to lose extremely convincingly versus a total unknown Zerg and to get destroyed by MKP in that Chinese LAN.
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On September 20 2011 01:18 Choboo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:16 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 01:00 FireEagle wrote:On September 20 2011 00:20 Choboo wrote:On September 20 2011 00:18 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 00:05 ForlornHope wrote:On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote:On September 19 2011 22:19 Ammanas wrote:
[quote]
no he is not (sadly) So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. White-Ra am cry. Mana has also had a good run lately. Hero as well. If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. you are an idiot so shut up pls. White-ra is code S level if not better than some in code S right now and for Mana he is the best Mouz player that mean he is even better than Thorzain who is considered by many is code S quality Massive lol at White Ra being Code S level. He's not even Code B level. Mana's on a streak. He has no significant tournament wins though and if you're not in Korea you are nothing because you're not proving yourself against the best. 95% of the top 100 Sc2 players are Korean, if you're not playing those guys you're not worth discussing in terms of who is the best at anything. Puma 5-2, Nada 2-0, Thorzain 3-0 Sup son? I'm pretty sure Mana is in the run for best PvT People tend to forget very easily. White-Ra could win the GSL if he really wanted to. He is the best foreign player in terms of money winnings and he is the only SC2 player up to date to have beaten a TBLS member in their prime. Sure, Nada, Boxer, MVP, July have wins against TBLS, but as far as I remember, only White-Ra has won agains a TBLS when he was dominating. WCG 2007, which was between MSL final against Bisu and OSL silver. With proper preparation, I'm sure he could dominate hardcore. But he is a Khan toss kind of player, he can win against anyone, can lose against anyone. I think this is probably a joke. White Ra isn't even in the top three foreign Protoss right now, nevermind Code S level. To be fair, top 3 foreign Protoss is almost top 3 Protoss in the world at this point (Huk, Sase, Mana and maybe Nani)
Really? I'd still say MC is one of the best in the world (he did 3-0 Mana recently and even Mana stated that MC is the best protoss in an interview) and then there's Puzzle, JYP, HongUn, Genius, and Hero. Of course, there's really no objective way to compare the protosses since they don't really compete in the same leagues, but it's really nonsensical to say that the foreign protoss are top 3 over Korean protoss.
If you think about it from a results perspective while taking into consideration that people can't compete in every tournament, it'll be HongUn who's the best.
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Let's see...
Pros of the day:
- SjoW goes to Ro16
- SeleCT goes to Ro16
Cons of the day:
- MC falls to Code B
Goddamn, I'm torn on whether this is a good day or not...
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Just got home to work to see SjoW and SeleCT get through to Ro16! YESYES!
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im so happy for sjow for making ro16. perhaps he'll be the next jinro in korea
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On September 20 2011 01:24 Kiyo. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2011 01:14 Blasphemi wrote:On September 20 2011 01:00 ladyumbra wrote:
@ Blasphemi
Where would you put MMA and DRG then? I mean both of them are in code S but both used mlg to get there, if a foreigner happens to get code s from MLG do they then count under your rating ( honest question?)
Back on topic I am proud of Select and Sjow for making it to the next round. I don't like either of their chances against their next opponents but they at least accomplished something today. Game 3 of Maka vs Sjow was my favorite today, both players made a lot of mistakes but that just lead to be being more tense and excited to see was going to finally get their act together and win. MMA's performance in the super tournament, AOL and in last seasons Code S proves he deserves Code S imo. DRG still has a lot of questions marks over him for me. Obviously he's really good but his ticket into Code S was very much through the back door and he should have done a lot better in Code A than he did last season. Lol, so we're going to ignore MMA's 4 times in Code A without getting to Code S? Yet DRG got in "through the back door". Winning the LG 3D special event, Dreamhack, and carrying his team single handedly through GSTL isn't enough? But apparently failing to qualify for Code S 4 consecutive times is.
I will be you a lot of money than MMA gets futher this GSL than DRG does.
MMA only became as good as he is now around the first MLG he played at. Counting to Code A before that where he beat Ret is a bit unfair, same as talking about Nestea in Open Season 1.
In one of his other Code A fails I believe he lost to MVP, the best player in the world.
Then he lost to Puzzle, which he should have won but Puzzle is a damn fine player who won that Code A tournament.
Point is he made the final of a GSL, DRG's GSL results have only been in team league.
But this is a dumb argument because DRG is a great player and I'm glad he's Code S.
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On September 19 2011 22:41 DystopiaX wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 22:36 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:34 Jinivus wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I still refuse to claim that protoss neds a buff as long as protoss players keep playing so badly... just watch hongun's and huk's performance in GSL code S ro8 or basically every game of MC right now...
its' not that they play perfect, don't make any mistakes and just lose to imbalanced stuff
no they play really sloppy and haven't really improved their strategies since 1.4.2
compare this MC to the MC in NASL finals vs puma.... so protoss players CAN actually do a lot better, they just need a hero to save them like anytime or bisu in BW Maybe there are no better strategies? When protoss is completely predictable and abusable, of course their play is gonna look shitty. They are getting raped. I think the onus is on the players to find new strategies and new ways to deal with the builds of the other races. I don't think Protoss is that much weaker than the other races [like recent results imply]. I think P is in that stage Zerg was awhile ago where they were losing and everyone was balance whining, then they started to collectively figure it out. Blizz waited a long time before doing anything, and rightly so; it turned out Z always had the tools they needed. That's why I don't get why blizz are moving so fast now, and with such big changes. As for MC making it through MLG, I doubt it. I think he has a great chance of being the top non-Code S player, but I think the top 3 will be all Code S and the reward won't go to anyone. (that's how it works, right?)
collectively flooded the forums with whine which resulted in massive buffs*
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On September 20 2011 01:30 izgodlee wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2011 22:41 DystopiaX wrote:On September 19 2011 22:36 Bobster wrote:On September 19 2011 22:34 Jinivus wrote:On September 19 2011 22:30 MapleLeafSirup wrote:
I still refuse to claim that protoss neds a buff as long as protoss players keep playing so badly... just watch hongun's and huk's performance in GSL code S ro8 or basically every game of MC right now...
its' not that they play perfect, don't make any mistakes and just lose to imbalanced stuff
no they play really sloppy and haven't really improved their strategies since 1.4.2
compare this MC to the MC in NASL finals vs puma.... so protoss players CAN actually do a lot better, they just need a hero to save them like anytime or bisu in BW Maybe there are no better strategies? When protoss is completely predictable and abusable, of course their play is gonna look shitty. They are getting raped. I think the onus is on the players to find new strategies and new ways to deal with the builds of the other races. I don't think Protoss is that much weaker than the other races [like recent results imply]. I think P is in that stage Zerg was awhile ago where they were losing and everyone was balance whining, then they started to collectively figure it out. Blizz waited a long time before doing anything, and rightly so; it turned out Z always had the tools they needed. That's why I don't get why blizz are moving so fast now, and with such big changes. As for MC making it through MLG, I doubt it. I think he has a great chance of being the top non-Code S player, but I think the top 3 will be all Code S and the reward won't go to anyone. (that's how it works, right?) collectively flooded the forums with whine which resulted in massive buffs*
The only buff was the Infestor. Losira and Nestea are the best two ZvP players in the world and the both rarely use Infestors.
DRG is the best ZvT player and he uses Muta/Ling/Bane.
The Infestor buff didn't really change much at the very, very top but it helped ladder Zergs, Morrow and Destiny a lot.
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On September 20 2011 01:22 hugman wrote:
White Ra is up there, he won IPL2 quite recently taking out Select, Mana, Nerchio etc.
Sase has no results, you can't say he's top5 foreign protoss
IPL2 was pre recorded like 2 months, lol
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Congratz to Sjow and Select! Winning in Code A is impressive!
But whats up with pages after pages of subjective player ratings? Thats definately not why I am reading TL forums.
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EPT
