EPTCongrats to SjoW on great games and some nice comeback wins, but I still hope he practices playing faster!
[GSL] Code A RO32 Day 1 - Page 243
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Funtime is over, start behaving in here. You all know the rules and this isn't the place for some kind of comments or discussion. Keep it to the games and keep balance, the casters and meta discussions out of here. Pretty please, with minerals on top. | ||
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Samiz
Canada165 Posts
Congrats to SjoW on great games and some nice comeback wins, but I still hope he practices playing faster! | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:14 Samiz wrote: It's a known fact that SjoW plays with relatively low APM (~100) compared to other pros who can span anywhere between the 200-300 range. To be honest, I think that this might eventually catch up to him. I know many people say "oh APM doesn't really matter" or "oh that's mostly unnecessary spam anyways" but you NEED to play fast to keep up with the top level Koreans. There will be a points where ~100 APM isn't enough actions devoted to keeping up with the multitasking that he requires. Congrats to SjoW on great games and some nice comeback wins, but I still hope he practices playing faster! Still people forget that Thorzain plays with just as low APM. | ||
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Blasphemi
United Kingdom980 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:14 Samiz wrote: It's a known fact that SjoW plays with relatively low APM (~100) compared to other pros who can span anywhere between the 200-300 range. To be honest, I think that this might eventually catch up to him. I know many people say "oh APM doesn't really matter" or "oh that's mostly unnecessary spam anyways" but you NEED to play fast to keep up with the top level Koreans. There will be a points where ~100 APM isn't enough actions devoted to keeping up with the multitasking that he requires. Congrats to SjoW on great games and some nice comeback wins, but I still hope he practices playing faster! You can get away with it in TvT. Must less so in other matchups. | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10979 Posts
On September 19 2011 22:54 Blasphemi wrote: If you don't play in GSL you aren't worth mentioning in the best of anything. Mana and White Ra are not even close to Code S level. Hero is playing in Code A for the first time this season and has no results about Koreans. Oh shut up. Select just won his Coda A game. Sjow just won his Code A game. Thorzain beat Hero. Fenix owned it up in GSTL. QXC did good in GSTL. Huk dropped out of IEM/Assembly early (RO8=. Nada dropped out of Assembly early (last time I checked he is considered good?). Stephano went thru several in his IPL qualifiers. . . Why should you not be allowed to compare Mana/WhiteRa with them? Last time I checked Mana beat Puma the last time they met... Please, give me a good reason... I guess it's because all Koreans that lose play always horrible or are just horrible players that tend to win more than they sould... Or they are just (insert random adjective here) for sticking around in Code A/Code S wherever and are Jetlagged/Ill/"Don't feel good" whenever they don't play in Korea... It gets so fucking old. Seriously... What do you guys need to see that the very top foreigners can compete? It's a known fact that SjoW plays with relatively low APM (~100) compared to other pros who can span anywhere between the 200-300 range. To be honest, I think that this might eventually catch up to him. I know many people say "oh APM doesn't really matter" or "oh that's mostly unnecessary spam anyways" but you NEED to play fast to keep up with the top level Koreans. There will be a points where ~100 APM isn't enough actions devoted to keeping up with the multitasking that he requires. Congrats to SjoW on great games and some nice comeback wins, but I still hope he practices playing faster! People are saying this since the Beta. That point will be reached once the game is nearly completely mapped out... Last time I checked there will be 2 more Addons and several balance patches till then... Oh, in SC/BW the players with the highest APM also don't dominate (at least last time I checked which is quite a while ago)... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote: So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. GSL spoiler: + Show Spoiler + Which Korean Protoss in Code A or S isn't better resultwise? It's not like MC only started slumping this season... He won GSL seasons 3 and 5, but I can't remember any high placement in a GSL after that. He shone in some other foreign tournaments, but even didn't win any of those. He disappointed in nearly every GSTL match for ogs. I'm not saying that it has nothing to do with the current trend, that protoss are generally very unsuccesful, but compared to other Code S players: HongUn, Genius, HuK, he just did poorly. Compared to new and rising Protoss: Puzzle, Sage, Tassadar, JYP he seems behind on the metagame (still playing deathballstyle) So if I had to name Protoss players that are better than MC right now, I would at least name Genius (who has been in Code S forever, always making it out of his group), HuK (who according to Jinro, doesn't have a lot of time to practice for GSL games, because he is always flying abroad but still gets rather far every month) and Puzzle (for winning Code A, showing some dominant play). And if there is anything true about the Sage hype (proclaimed by Jinro, MC, Artosis, Tasteless...), I guess I'll be able to name another one very shortly... MC's style (corner cutting macro wins and huge allin play) just seems to be figuered out, with or without Ghosts and Infestors... | ||
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setzer
United States3284 Posts
On September 19 2011 21:38 Bobster wrote: People who call any SC2 players "foreigners" are stupid. :p Korea is an important location in the SC2 world, but it's not the only one. It's different from BW, so we shouldn't use outdated terminology (imo). But it's a hard to break habit (especially because most of the popular commentators come from BW, keep using it and thus "teach" it to newcomers) so it keeps being used and accepted in the community despite my best efforts *sigh*. Starcraft is synonymous with Korea, that is just the simple fact. Other nations/regions have to prove they can compete with them before we shed the term "foreigner" because that is just what they are. Every other place is the same, but Korea is the exception. It is special. | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
Also yay Sjow and SelecT! Every Protoss except JYP lost today | ||
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Clazziquai10
Singapore1949 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:18 Blasphemi wrote: You can get away with it in TvT. Must less so in other matchups. On the contrary i think only TvZ after mutas are out requires more apm on the terran side. You need apm in TvT for positioning. Scouting/map awareness. Harrassment. Dealing with harrassment. Macro. People also tend to forget viking/tank/thor/marauder micro is also very intensive when a single bad engagement will lose you the game. | ||
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mikyaJ
1834 Posts
On September 19 2011 21:38 Bobster wrote: People who call any SC2 players "foreigners" are stupid. :p Korea is an important location in the SC2 world, but it's not the only one. It's different from BW, so we shouldn't use outdated terminology (imo). But it's a hard to break habit (especially because most of the popular commentators come from BW, keep using it and thus "teach" it to newcomers) so it keeps being used and accepted in the community despite my best efforts *sigh*. Pretty sure Dirk Nowitzki is considered a foreigner in Basketball. And until Europe starts consistently beating the US in Basketball I'd say it's safe to say so. Substitute Korea for US, and Starcraft for Basketball | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:23 Big J wrote: GSL spoiler: + Show Spoiler + Which Korean Protoss in Code A or S isn't better resultwise? It's not like MC only started slumping this season... He won GSL seasons 3 and 5, but I can't remember any high placement in a GSL after that. He shone in some other foreign tournaments, but even didn't win any of those. He disappointed in nearly every GSTL match for ogs. I'm not saying that it has nothing to do with the current trend, that protoss are generally very unsuccesful, but compared to other Code S players: HongUn, Genius, HuK, he just did poorly. Compared to new and rising Protoss: Puzzle, Sage, Tassadar, JYP he seems behind on the metagame (still playing deathballstyle) So if I had to name Protoss players that are better than MC right now, I would at least name Genius (who has been in Code S forever, always making it out of his group), HuK (who according to Jinro, doesn't have a lot of time to practice for GSL games, because he is always flying abroad but still gets rather far every month) and Puzzle (for winning Code A, showing some dominant play). And if there is anything true about the Sage hype (proclaimed by Jinro, MC, Artosis, Tasteless...), I guess I'll be able to name another one very shortly... MC's style (corner cutting macro wins and huge allin play) just seems to be figuered out, with or without Ghosts and Infestors... Huk 0-3 at IEM and only got to ro8 because he faced horrible vP players...Genius has never done anything in Code S. MC didn't win any foreign tournaments? dreamhack? copenhagen? or do you mean after that where he constantly placed top 3 in nearly every foreign event he attended? | ||
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Choboo
Sweden2088 Posts
On September 19 2011 22:27 Blasphemi wrote: So who is better? Huk won Dreamhack and Homestory sure but that was three months ago. These days he loses to all sorts of random foreigners and stays in Code S on the virtue of always picking really easy groups every season then losing to the first good player he meets. Puzzle has won nothing at all and looks very middle of the road. Hongun is always a laugh but he's so gimmicky and wins games mostly of the back of being unpredictable. Genius is plain bad, he survived in Code S last season by Void Ray cheesing every game. Naniwa has no results in months and months. Tassadar, JYP and others are still messing about in Code A. MC at least made the NASL and IEM finals even if it was by beating foreigners. There's just no good Protoss players right now. If you were to list to current best 20 players in Sc2 right now I wouldn't choose a single Protoss. Mana, Hero, Sage, Sase and JYP are the best tosses RIGHT NOW (not past results but best play, most solid games). Anyone who argues otherwise is kidding themselves. | ||
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Klaas
Slovenia86 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:28 mikyaJ wrote: Pretty sure Dirk Nowitzki is considered a foreigner in Basketball. And until Europe starts consistently beating the US in Basketball I'd say it's safe to say so. Substitute Korea for US, and Starcraft for Basketball Well that analogy is just silly. | ||
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Sadist
United States7328 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:28 mikyaJ wrote: Pretty sure Dirk Nowitzki is considered a foreigner in Basketball. And until Europe starts consistently beating the US in Basketball I'd say it's safe to say so. Substitute Korea for US, and Starcraft for Basketball hes a foreigner because he plays here. Nothing else. USA players who play in other countries would be foreigners there. | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:31 Choboo wrote: Mana, Hero, Sage and JYP are the best tosses RIGHT NOW (not past results but best play, most solid games). Anyone who argues otherwise is kidding themselves. MC destroyed mana 3-0, Hero played AWFULLY vs thorzain, sage is alicia all over again and JYP is ok. Seriously Mana? his PvT is all he's even notable for. Seriously what is so good about sage his last 8 televised games were like 7 losses. Solid play right there broski. | ||
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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JEEPFiretruck
Australia106 Posts
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madnz
8 Posts
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Kznn
Brazil9072 Posts
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Poopi
France13023 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:16 Choboo wrote: Still people forget that Thorzain plays with just as low APM. ThorZain has 150-160 apm. That's not as low | ||
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Jinivus
747 Posts
On September 19 2011 23:45 Kznn wrote: we need a new Kim taek yong. We need a new protoss god... Or maybe we just need a herO. If you know what I mean... Yes perhaps a korean protoss with a 20 percent winrate who does 2 failed dt rushes in a tournament and loses to a foreigner terran. THIS is the hope that protoss needs. | ||
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