[GSL] Super Tourney ro32 Day 1 - Page 214

On June 01 2011 23:25 Goibon wrote:
You won't see Ravens used until Zerg en masse use BaneBombs all the time. There's currently no reason to build a Raven other than to be overly safe which players aren't going to do. They need to be forced.

On June 01 2011 23:25 Numy wrote:


Ravens are quite good against broodlords aren't they?

On June 01 2011 23:19 Rayansaki wrote:


To be fair, ultras is something we haven't seen on a winning ZvT in a long time... I dont think anyone could pull that off like Nestea did in the first game. Not saying no one can win with ultras, just not the mass expand massive dronage into ultra infestor while slowing terran down with 50 spine crawlers..

On June 01 2011 23:25 Numy wrote:


Ravens are quite good against broodlords aren't they?

On June 01 2011 23:17 WindCalibur wrote:
Really, what I am seeing is, terran does some good damage with a standard push, then fail and lose because they fail to get into a good defensive position against zerg on crossfire. Bomber took out Nestea's 3rd and had his 3rd up about to get running. All he had to do was set up a lot of turrets, get some thors, and played defensive for a while. In fact, a lot of terrans from what I am seeing in korea tries to force engagements thus limiting the muta's mobility but they fail to understand how hard mutas can snowball if you do not put up enough defenses.

All in all, this shows that the match up TvZ is still pretty much undiscovered even at the top level play. Yesterday's NaDa showcased spectacular TvZs that allowed him to "control" opponent while still allowing himself to set up expansions for a good macro game. Yet, despite how hard he dominated, his play, was not refined at all, to where he had floating minerals (1k +) and only had 7 barracks with no reactor making marines on 4 bases (one of the reasons why he was floating minerals). But the right mindset, great understanding of timings and great control over the opponent won him the game so convincingly that he would have won even if he had even 2 or 3k minerals in his bank.

To be honest, as a long time watcher of broodwar, I really believe that despite how well Nestea played today, each races' full potentials are no where close to being reached by any of the current starcraft 2 players. There is a lot of room for improvement and I believe that unless a top tier player on the scales of Flash or Jaedong plays sc2, we will only see a glimmer of just what is capable.

On June 01 2011 23:26 thoradycus wrote:

nope PDD doesnt do nething

On June 01 2011 23:26 pirates wrote:

no, vikings are.

On June 01 2011 23:27 LXenJin wrote:


PDD stops broodlings spawning from broodlords

On June 01 2011 23:26 canikizu wrote:

ACtually if you ladder as Terran at least diamond and up, you'll see ultralisk infestor currently is growing trend.
And so are mass spinecrawlers. I had 3 games yesterday where the zerg just simply put 5,6 spinecrawlers in every natural and mass up infestors. And moreover, nestea is known for his mass spinecrawlers.too

The strat is not as innovative as you think.

On June 01 2011 23:17 WindCalibur wrote:
To be honest, as a long time watcher of broodwar, I really believe that despite how well Nestea played today, each races' full potentials are no where close to being reached by any of the current starcraft 2 players.

On June 01 2011 23:23 bittman wrote:


Yeah, don't understand the Raven discussion to be honest. Funny that Baneling mines might be strong on Crossfire when Siege tanks are known for being deadly on Crossfire.

And anyone who watched the entire game knows that it was all over well before the Bomb went off. It wasn't even the final nail in the coffin, just another blow. Nestea basically had enough mutas to a-move, perhaps with even just a bit of ling backup, into Bombers base. And Bomber was playing really average. 1 in gas to factory? followed by 4 in gas? Followed by pushing with siege tanks without siege mode? To be honest, Bomber lost the game in the first 8 minutes, it was a credit to his reputation and skill that Nestea didn't just a-move earlier.

On June 01 2011 23:08 brentsen wrote:

No, he is not.

On June 01 2011 23:22 Ayrie wrote:

Well, we saw Bomber make a huge mistake in trying to expand to the third below the natural instead of the one on the far left, as he didn't want to float it that far. If he had been able to set up turrets and establish a defensive posture at his left side third beforehand, he would had a much better economy to back that standard push of his. Also, he neglected to make Thors as you mentioned, probably because he felt safe from the mutas but more likely because it was a risk he felt necessary based on his dwindling tank count.
It's really hard to know how much defenses you need to make for a muta flock - often you can't afford to throw up enough turrets, and switching to Thors doesn't just happen that easily. Leaving thors and turrets in your base takes away from resources that could have gone towards your push that would have prevented effective muta harass in the first place. Bomber stuck with his push, thinking that he could pressure Nestea enough to keep the mutas at home while he expanded behind it, but he was ultimately outplayed.