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[NASL] Day 3-2 - Page 40

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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Harrow
Profile Joined November 2010
United States245 Posts
April 29 2011 04:33 GMT
#781
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.


I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.
namedplayer
Profile Joined June 2010
844 Posts
April 29 2011 04:34 GMT
#782
gre+kha >>>>> incontrol,gre
You know what I'm talking about
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
April 29 2011 04:37 GMT
#783
On April 29 2011 13:24 funkyfritter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 13:21 Serpico wrote:
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.

uhhh what?


Being unpredictable and being willing to adapt quickly puts your opponent on the back foot before the game even begins. As good as Idra is one of his biggest weaknesses is that he almost never does early all-in aggression unless he planned to do so before the game even started. By comparison, what makes July so scary is that he's willing to go all-in the second his opponent makes a mistake or gets a little greedy.

The argument definitely shouldn't be that Idra doesn't UNDERSTAND being aggressive or taking risks, though. Idra on risks:

+ Show Spoiler +
its not cocky, its not arrogant, its not flash losing focus and its not stupid of him to take risks. terran is fragile. playing to minimize losses can work to an extent, if you're good enough. look at all the solid terrans there have been, people like midas and hwasin, theyre ridiculously good. they won, alot. they never won a title. because once you start playing against bisu and jaedong and effort, if you play to not lose you have no chance because that style can be abused very hard. thats why flash has always been able to win, he is one of the best mechanically anyway, but he takes risks. theyre normally very well calculated and based on scouting and knowledge, not pure luck, but they are risks none the less and sometimes that backfires and you look stupid no matter who you are.
flash won game 2 cuz he left his base relatively open while mutas are out and goes to pressure effort's third. at that point hes way, way behind and if the attack doesnt go his way hes dead, but if he doesnt do anything with the situation hes in a lot of trouble anyway. so he takes his chance, and it works. game 4, if he just sits back and tries to turtle up effort runs him ragged with muta micro, given how fast mutas come off that build and the setup of fighting spirit. so he pushes out right before mutas will be out to try to pressure, hoping to catch effort off guard and force a sunken or lings, anything to lessen the effect of the mutas. but efforts prepared for this and it doesnt work. in both games hes in a tough situation and takes a risk to try to turn it in his favor. one game he looks great, the other he looks retarded.
a more conservative player will sit back and turret up both games, he doesnt run the risk of dying immediately and he doesnt end up looking stupid and getting criticized. but hes never gonna win a starleague.
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
jarhead271
Profile Joined October 2010
United States160 Posts
April 29 2011 04:52 GMT
#784
Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.

We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.
epik640x
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1134 Posts
April 29 2011 05:07 GMT
#785
Gretorp you're doing a good job man, it's not easy to disregard the haters but you have to trust in yourself. Good stuff, mate.
epik640x
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1134 Posts
April 29 2011 05:08 GMT
#786
July is so awesome like a Jigglypuff Snorlax god of fucking war.
Turgid
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States1623 Posts
April 29 2011 05:10 GMT
#787
On April 29 2011 14:08 epik640x wrote:
July is so awesome like a Jigglypuff Snorlax god of fucking war.

Ugh I always hated it when Snorlax used Rest to heal up and then counterattacked me with zerglings
(╬ ಠ益ಠ)
EchelonTee
Profile Joined February 2011
United States5245 Posts
April 29 2011 06:28 GMT
#788
On April 29 2011 13:37 Turgid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 13:24 funkyfritter wrote:
On April 29 2011 13:21 Serpico wrote:
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.

uhhh what?


Being unpredictable and being willing to adapt quickly puts your opponent on the back foot before the game even begins. As good as Idra is one of his biggest weaknesses is that he almost never does early all-in aggression unless he planned to do so before the game even started. By comparison, what makes July so scary is that he's willing to go all-in the second his opponent makes a mistake or gets a little greedy.

The argument definitely shouldn't be that Idra doesn't UNDERSTAND being aggressive or taking risks, though. Idra on risks:

+ Show Spoiler +
its not cocky, its not arrogant, its not flash losing focus and its not stupid of him to take risks. terran is fragile. playing to minimize losses can work to an extent, if you're good enough. look at all the solid terrans there have been, people like midas and hwasin, theyre ridiculously good. they won, alot. they never won a title. because once you start playing against bisu and jaedong and effort, if you play to not lose you have no chance because that style can be abused very hard. thats why flash has always been able to win, he is one of the best mechanically anyway, but he takes risks. theyre normally very well calculated and based on scouting and knowledge, not pure luck, but they are risks none the less and sometimes that backfires and you look stupid no matter who you are.
flash won game 2 cuz he left his base relatively open while mutas are out and goes to pressure effort's third. at that point hes way, way behind and if the attack doesnt go his way hes dead, but if he doesnt do anything with the situation hes in a lot of trouble anyway. so he takes his chance, and it works. game 4, if he just sits back and tries to turtle up effort runs him ragged with muta micro, given how fast mutas come off that build and the setup of fighting spirit. so he pushes out right before mutas will be out to try to pressure, hoping to catch effort off guard and force a sunken or lings, anything to lessen the effect of the mutas. but efforts prepared for this and it doesnt work. in both games hes in a tough situation and takes a risk to try to turn it in his favor. one game he looks great, the other he looks retarded.
a more conservative player will sit back and turret up both games, he doesnt run the risk of dying immediately and he doesnt end up looking stupid and getting criticized. but hes never gonna win a starleague.


That spoilered quote is pretty interesting... Idra honoring aggressive tactics as necessary risks to be a true champion. If zerg's early aggresive options were more appealing Idra would probably incorportate them more often
aka "neophyte". learn lots. dont judge. laugh for no reason. be nice. seek happiness. -D[9]
Horse...falcon
Profile Joined December 2010
United States1851 Posts
April 29 2011 06:40 GMT
#789
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.


Hey, cheap shots for everyone! Also you're a moron.
Artosis: "From horsssse....falcon"
Chicane
Profile Joined November 2010
United States7875 Posts
April 29 2011 06:49 GMT
#790
On April 29 2011 13:52 jarhead271 wrote:
Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.

We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.


... There is $50,000 on the line... they aren't treating it like some random ladder match...
DarKFoRcE
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Germany1215 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 08:57:42
April 29 2011 07:55 GMT
#791
On April 29 2011 12:19 On_Slaught wrote:
The two games Darkforce won were domination. Its a wonder he went 7pool (pretty sure it was 7) in game 2 when it really seemed like he hadn't practiced it.


i had played like ~20 games of 6 pool on terminus re against my practise partner. he reacted slighty different to it though, my practise partner build his pylon on the side of the mineralline facing the natural (so he can slide when i attack the pylon), so when i saw that his pylon is on the other side, i was not sure whether i should go around and start attacking the pylon (then he has nothing to slide through, but i lose some time) or whether its good enough to just kill some probes. had i scouted his proxy quicker i think i would have been fine. in practise it was enough to kill a couple of probes and then just kill pylon and forge at the lowground and go from there.

also it was a 6 pool. 7 pool comes alot later and does like no damage on cross position.

to the other people talking about how good muta vs P is: its mostly good against people who have not practised against it much, if the opponent doesnt get thrown off as hard as TT1 and has a good plan against it, it does not work out very well, thats why i dont use it that often anymore (i used to play for basetrade in >50% of my ZvP).
Follow me on Twitter: https://twitter.com/#!/PinDarKFoRcE
Neeh
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway458 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-29 08:25:14
April 29 2011 08:15 GMT
#792
Anyone else got a problem viewing vods? Its a complete studderfest, can't even prebuffer as it will just stop buffering after a while, so I can watch like 5 mins of it every hour ._.
dementrio
Profile Joined November 2010
678 Posts
April 29 2011 13:11 GMT
#793
darkforce, I was surprised by your reaction to the proxy gateways, where you built a TON of lings and got your roaches late. Care to explain why? I thought the "standard" way to deal with that is covering your mineral line with spines and get roaches immediately, because you need them to bust out of your own ramp.
The KY
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United Kingdom6252 Posts
April 29 2011 13:39 GMT
#794
iNcontroL tearing it UP so far. Guess all those people who thought his MLG result was a fluke (easiest group, cheesing etc) were, um, totally fucking wrong!
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 29 2011 13:45 GMT
#795
On April 29 2011 13:33 Harrow wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.


I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.


I think he's added a roach ling timing attacking against P and it's working for him, but this is something Koreans have been doing for a while. He's still a boorish player to watch though.
s4life
Profile Joined March 2007
Peru1519 Posts
April 29 2011 13:46 GMT
#796
On April 29 2011 13:52 jarhead271 wrote:
Damn I missed the matches tonight. I'll def be checking out the vods though. I was pretty happy/surpirsed at the results. Since I didn't see the matches I can't comment much, but a nagging feeling in the back of my mind has been that the Koreans have not been taking NASL 100% seriously. Seeing July and Ensnare 2-0 their opponents tonight gives me hope that this will be a world-wide, super-competitive league.

We are only in week three, but when this hits week 7 I think NASL is going to explode into something NA has yet to see. And after season 1 finals, I know I'm going to be super pumped about what season two will bring.


Your comment cannot be more insulting to the players, korean or non-korean alike.
Sqq
Profile Joined August 2010
Norway2023 Posts
April 29 2011 14:02 GMT
#797
Fuck yeah Incontrol! You're getting there

And fuck yeah TT1, ba ha ha.
Dead girls don't say no.
nihlon
Profile Joined April 2010
Sweden5581 Posts
April 29 2011 14:27 GMT
#798
On April 29 2011 22:45 s4life wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 13:33 Harrow wrote:
On April 29 2011 13:20 AndAgain wrote:
Unpredictability is a good quality in and of itself. That's something that Idra doesn't understand and never ever will.


I don't think you've been keeping up with Idra's recent play.


I think he's added a roach ling timing attacking against P and it's working for him, but this is something Koreans have been doing for a while. He's still a boorish player to watch though.


He's doing baneling drops, both on army an as multi pronged attacks. He uses infestors quite nicely in some games, he tried a 9 pool in one of the games I watched. And that was from a few hours one day of watching his stream. He's about as creative as the large majority of top zerg players. If that makes him boring to you I just think you find zergs in general boring or are extreemly picky.
Banelings are too cute to blow up
GxZ
Profile Joined April 2010
United States375 Posts
April 29 2011 15:19 GMT
#799
Im surprised that darkforce beat TT1 guess I don't see enough of his games.
zyzq
Profile Joined February 2011
United States3123 Posts
April 29 2011 15:20 GMT
#800
On April 29 2011 13:26 FrozenFrog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2011 13:20 j3i wrote:
On April 29 2011 13:18 StUfF wrote:
I don't think I've ever seen a July bust fail and/or lost him the game.


He failed it twice against NaDa. But yeah, he can pull it off most of the time.

NaDa doesn't count XD


July vs MVP ro8 GSL WC. MVP punished him when he failed.
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