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On April 24 2011 06:41 DaRKMaTT3r wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:34 jalstar wrote:On April 24 2011 06:31 dark fury wrote:
naniwa or thorzain is gonna win this thing. sorry kas but thorz is simply on another level Kas will rape Thorzain, Thorzain has great TvP while Kas has great everything. This! I honestly think i would be happier to see MC lose to Kas than to Thorzain. Kas is a complete player, while Thorzain is just good on TvP with his upgrade timmings and non common army composition. Protoss still didnt figure a way to deal efficiently with heavy thor build, yeah there are several possible ways to deal with it, but everyone seems to have a possible way and everytime there is a game with heavy thor composition usually you see something different from the protoss usually failing. It's strange why terrans dont use that more often.
Are you kidding me? Haven't you ever seen Thorzain play? not only is his TvP ''great'' his overall gameplay is fucking fantastic, his builds are like IdrA's, lasting more than 8 minutes into the game.
His games against Fruitdealer alone should convince you of his TvZ abilities.
Thorzain has said, and it's clearly visibly, that it's his worst matchup is TvT, but with the ability and skill to prepare for every damn match and map, Kas V Thorzain is gonna be bloody amazing...
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I liked Thorzain when he was still on vinyl...
I kid I kid :D
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People hating on Thorzain because he's good at a particular match up. Jesus christ i think i've heard it all now. I'm out of here. The mongfest has begun.
Congratz Thorzain, may the best player win when you play against Kas. GG
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On April 24 2011 06:47 iamke55 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:40 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 24 2011 06:36 Yaotzin wrote:On April 24 2011 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 24 2011 06:33 Yaotzin wrote:On April 24 2011 06:31 JWD wrote:On April 24 2011 06:29 Yaotzin wrote:
MC made some strategic blunders but is otherwise clearly the better player. L O L Guy loses 3-2 in extremely hard fought back-and-forth series, is "clearly the better player". Love it! Other than the strategic blunders, yes. How do you think it was a close series despite those blunders? How can someone be "clearly the better player" if they make several strategic blunders? OTHER THAN THEM. God, how many times do I need to rewrite that? His micro/macro etc were better. His builds, upgrade timing etc were not at all. Sorry, I did miss that part. In that case it's kind of a poor way to put it, why not say that Thorzain had much better builds and upgrades while MC had better micro/macro? That seems less likely to draw fire from the internet and doesn't take away from Thorzain's ability as a player. Edit: I'd also say that having better timing than MC is pretty damn impressive. IMO MC's templar and stalker micro are way more impressive than just picking the right build order. Thorzain will probably never have MC's unit control or ability to control the map, whereas someone like Jinro can just tell MC to build forges earlier and his weakness is instantly solved.
MC had access to games where Thorzain played this exact style.
Go post in the MC fanclub thread instead of here, or maybe the Code-S thread
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On April 24 2011 06:48 dark fury wrote:
whats the deal with kas hype? he is getting smacked by MC right now while thorzain was able to take MC down.
Kas "smacked" NaDa down 3-0. I don't think anyone would think that Thorzain (on equal connections) can do the same. His TvT isn't nearly as good.
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On April 24 2011 06:48 Qaatar wrote:
Man, Kas' TvP certainly isn't as good as Thorzain's, that's for sure.
On the other hand, it's Kas' first offline tournament, so I suppose he's really nervous.
No, I don't think so, wasn't he at assembly?
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On April 24 2011 06:49 phisku wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:43 Yaotzin wrote:On April 24 2011 06:40 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 24 2011 06:36 Yaotzin wrote:On April 24 2011 06:35 TheTenthDoc wrote:On April 24 2011 06:33 Yaotzin wrote:On April 24 2011 06:31 JWD wrote:On April 24 2011 06:29 Yaotzin wrote:
MC made some strategic blunders but is otherwise clearly the better player. L O L Guy loses 3-2 in extremely hard fought back-and-forth series, is "clearly the better player". Love it! Other than the strategic blunders, yes. How do you think it was a close series despite those blunders? How can someone be "clearly the better player" if they make several strategic blunders? OTHER THAN THEM. God, how many times do I need to rewrite that? His micro/macro etc were better. His builds, upgrade timing etc were not at all. Sorry, I did miss that part. In that case it's kind of a poor way to put it, why not say that Thorzain had much better builds and upgrades while MC had better micro/macro? That seems less likely to draw fire from the internet and doesn't take away from Thorzain's ability as a player. Sorry ^_^ Thorzain came up with great builds, I'm not taking anything from him. However I haven't found his mechanics notable (not bad, just not notable) so I don't know how he'll hold up once people adapt. In particular how will he do against people who upgrade early and don't respond badly to funky builds? wait what? He had +2/+2 even under harassement and kept his macro going, isn't that good mechanic?
No he has to have 10 minerals all the time, then he will have good mechanics
(i really need to stop reading these threads)
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i liked that thor build. i love this series shows how close the top level foreigners are to the top koreans. this isn't broodwar my friends!
congrats thorzain.
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I was outside missed the games. I am really excited for the vods.
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On April 24 2011 06:39 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:36 PHC wrote:On April 24 2011 06:32 Mohdoo wrote:
Its really interesting to read threads like this. Koreans are plain and simply losing often to Europeans, yet no one is willing to admit it. Maybe a year from now once its normal, people will accept European equality? Question is: can they repeat their results on LAN? So far, nope. Way to come out of your shell when a Korean loses to bait a Europe vs Korea war that is unnecessary. Both Thorzain and MC played from Europe this round.
LAN does not mean playing on the same server. While it's great that you are addressing that, my point still stands. Some examples: IEM, Dreamhack, Assembly, GSL, ESL.
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On April 24 2011 06:49 gnutz wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:48 dark fury wrote:
whats the deal with kas hype? he is getting smacked by MC right now while thorzain was able to take MC down. He is basically unexperienced in LAN-Events. He play normally way better than this.
oh, so he is really a young talent? when did he arise to the pro-scene? must have missed him completley
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Before people disregard Thorzain as a one matchup wonder, consider the fact the besides TSL he hasn't played any official games in two months, and that the TSL is is pretty much the first time we see him play games he has had time to prepare for properly (that's going by TLPD, I might be missing something...). Who's to say his TvT isn't great too by now, with proper preparation? And we've already seen his TvZ is good. Sure, Fruitdealer hasn't been that great lately, but just watch the damn games, regardless of how Fruitdealer played, Thorzain played very impressively.
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On April 24 2011 06:39 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:36 PHC wrote:On April 24 2011 06:32 Mohdoo wrote:
Its really interesting to read threads like this. Koreans are plain and simply losing often to Europeans, yet no one is willing to admit it. Maybe a year from now once its normal, people will accept European equality? Question is: can they repeat their results on LAN? So far, nope. Way to come out of your shell when a Korean loses to bait a Europe vs Korea war that is unnecessary. Both Thorzain and MC played from Europe this round.
Re-posting this so people know that MC was in Europe when he played these games. ThorZaiN was just the better player and used strats that were made exactly for MC. So of course ThorZaiN won, he's an amazing Terran player.
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On April 24 2011 06:41 VoirDire wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:35 Monzterg wrote:
Whats up with Ukraine?
I say whats up with Sweden!?
Dare I say ThorZaIN? jinro, sjow, naniwa, haypro, morrow?? It has to be the blue and yellow colors of our flags. They contain mystical powers.
Blue and yellow fighting!
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On April 24 2011 06:49 Bluedraqy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:41 DaRKMaTT3r wrote:On April 24 2011 06:34 jalstar wrote:On April 24 2011 06:31 dark fury wrote:
naniwa or thorzain is gonna win this thing. sorry kas but thorz is simply on another level Kas will rape Thorzain, Thorzain has great TvP while Kas has great everything. This! I honestly think i would be happier to see MC lose to Kas than to Thorzain. Kas is a complete player, while Thorzain is just good on TvP with his upgrade timmings and non common army composition. Protoss still didnt figure a way to deal efficiently with heavy thor build, yeah there are several possible ways to deal with it, but everyone seems to have a possible way and everytime there is a game with heavy thor composition usually you see something different from the protoss usually failing. It's strange why terrans dont use that more often. Are you kidding me? Haven't you ever seen Thorzain play? not only is his TvP ''great'' his overall gameplay is fucking fantastic, his builds are like IdrA's, lasting more than 8 minutes into the game. His games against Fruitdealer alone should convince you of his TvZ abilities. Thorzain has said, and it's clearly visibly, that it's his worst matchup is TvT, but with the ability and skill to prepare for every damn match and map, Kas V Thorzain is gonna be bloody amazing...
Are you serious? FD played like GARBAGE in his series. I'm convinced of Thor's TvP abilities (beating Tyler + MC straight up is amazing), but I'm not convinced about his other match-ups.
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On April 24 2011 06:50 10or10 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:48 Qaatar wrote:
Man, Kas' TvP certainly isn't as good as Thorzain's, that's for sure.
On the other hand, it's Kas' first offline tournament, so I suppose he's really nervous. No, I don't think so, wasn't he at assembly?
Yeah but he played really bad. He is really nervous in offline tourney's. Hopefully he will gain some confidence after this.
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On April 24 2011 06:36 samaNo4 wrote:
Thorzain can beat Naniwa, Kas cannot. Kas is going to own Thorzain in TvT therefore Naniwa is going to take it all.
Pretty sad that Thorzain and Kas cannot meet in the finals but Naniwa is pretty entertaining to watch too.
Perfect prediction! A bit sad too. Kas's weakest is TvP, Thorzain's TvT while Kas is an über god at it.
Basically Naniwa wins. The only way I see Naniwa not winning is losing to Hasu. Naniwa is good but it's still PvP.
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On April 24 2011 06:49 Qaatar wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 06:48 dark fury wrote:
whats the deal with kas hype? he is getting smacked by MC right now while thorzain was able to take MC down. Kas "smacked" NaDa down 3-0. I don't think anyone would think that Thorzain (on equal connections) can do the same. His TvT isn't nearly as good.
I think most people haven't seen enough of Thorzain's TvT to be able to make that judgment.
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Amazing, amazing series. I was rooting for MC but I had a feeling this was going to happen. MC has now lost his last 4 PvT's (Cloud, MKP, Polt, Thorzain) that weren't Bo1. Thorzain's TvP is so incredibly beastly, it amazes me how his builds seem so far ahead of what the likes of MVP and Select can come up with. Game 4 was especially amazing, probably the best SC2 TvP I've ever seen in terms of momentum shifting back and forth and not knowing who was going to win. At the very least I'm glad MC didn't get 3-0'd. That would have been embarrassing. Unfortunately I think Thorzain has hit the end of his road as his TvT record is mediocre and Kas' is great. Nonetheless he's definitely made a name for himself and hopefully his showing here in the TSL will get him more invites to prestigious tourneys.
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This is quite unfair for MC where he can only rely on his instinct against a terran with a good mechanics and some awesome timing builds with no other games to show this other than the tsl and a few other sources. Thorzain may be overrated for now as we haven't really seem him play live yet, we have yet to see Thorzain crack in pressure ^^. Other than that Thorzain with incredible mechanics quite impress I am.
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EPT
