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On April 05 2011 23:40 yandere991 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2011 23:30 Sami` wrote:On April 05 2011 23:24 yandere991 wrote:
Read again, I said kiting happens with gateway and MM then Sami then decided to put colossi into the argument so I decided to put in sentries. And when I said MM vs Gateway I stressed that you don't need to stutter step like MK to avoid concuss'd zealots to win just like how protoss don't need to stalkerfield a zerg to win. What the exaggeration some forum users put on the difficulty to kite a gateway force in early game with MM is amazing.
So you are trying to create scenarios that MM doesn't stutter step and use that as your justification for why P micro isn't easier than T bio micro? Problem is that anyone who actually plays/watches the game knows that MM stutter step in nearly every game. What I've been trying to do was to challenge your dogmatic view on which micro is easier. You say that stutter step as the benchmark for the difficulty of terran micro while in reality many people with non marineking like micro in the GSL have vaporized protoss gateway armies. What I have been saying with my references to stalkerfielding and manual - charge - surround - hold is that your don't need that level of skill to win against most people. It's like saying all protoss needs MC like forcefields to stand a chance against terran and because of that we have the most difficult micro.
Against normal people, just pure macro and proper decision making will get you a long way. But when micro is involved, the most basic terran micro is MM stutterstep and that requires a lot more APM than most micro involving gateway units - this last point you seem to be in agreement with.
Case closed.
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I agree you don't need a high level of micro to win with Protoss, the ceiling is much lower.
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It's funny when one race thinks their race is harder in a certain aspect and is extremely dogmatic about it. Never thought the day would come when terrans would be doing it considering the 5 raxx reaper BS as the start of the game.
Meh, probably no use arguing about it further.
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Same idea as for everything else. Theres always ways to improve the micro aspect to give yourself a better chance. I've seen terrans a-move my base and also the other way around. If i'm making use of blink stalkers properly in larger engagements in pvt, suddenly I can get concaves quite quickly, pick off retreating units etc etc. Depends how much effort you're willing to put in to microing in reality. In theory, do I think blink micro while doing everything else is less difficult than stim kiting, no but I would have to play more terran to make that judgement.
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Gotta love people here, they hate ANYONE that has an ounce of personality. You guys all talk about IdrA being terrible for the "sport" or MC being terrible for the "sport". I use quotations because no one will ever treat esports seriously when everyone acts like care bears.
These people add personality to the scene. MC is a great guy, look at how he was the first one to rush to Jinro when he won GSL matches, or was the first one to console him when he lost. Or how he cheers for Huk when he left for MLG or mentioned Jinro in his twitter when Jinro lost. If you people really think he's an annoying cocky player, then you guys are just being totally bias to what seems like a great person who totally deserves to be as "arrogant" as he is.
I don't see anyone complaining about White-Ra basically calling Sans cheesy and using "brainless" strats. Well here's my comment for White-Ra. If he's so great and smart, he should have been able to hold off such "cheesy" and "brainless" strats but he didn't.
No one is going to respect esports if people here are so bias.
That being said, I admit I am at times bias too for Koreans to try and shed light on how ignorant it everyone else looks when they blindly support foreign players and trash on the Koreans.
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damnnn sick comeback. it looked like mkp just did three terran versions of mc-style pushes in a row to kill mc.
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Gratz to MKP!!! I was one of those who BELIEVED!!!! Mwahahahaha!
Regarding the MC-cockiness hate, he irritated me to no end in the beginning, too. Then I read something about him being called the suicide Toss because even before he won a GSL he would do that neck slashing thing and thumbs down, all cocky, and then lose badly and be humiliated. Didn't stop him from doing it again the next time. Lol. So now I think better of him and he doesn't irritate me so much anymore.
Luv luv luv MKP though! <3
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just finished watching, MKP is a fooking hero. so happy he beat MC.
I think people at the top of the game at ONE point , their confidence becomes arrogance. that last game , no way MC should push out. It just looked like he thought he was so much better than MKP and got brought down to earth with a bump.
But i dont think anyone else could win those games the way MKP did, his micro is just insane at times.
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Don't compare Idra and MC please, such an insanely big differance...
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On April 06 2011 00:15 Mellon wrote:
Don't compare Idra and MC please, such an insanely big differance...
I'm not talking about their play style, their approach/thoughts about the game or even their personalities being similar. I'm talking about how each individual provokes/stirs up the community in their own unique way and is different from the usual head down, quiet humble nerd type personality that people seem to like instead.
KawaiiRice type personality on camera or a MC/IdrA. I'd watch an IdrA ANY day of the week.
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MarineKing makes me so happy.
SO FUCKING HAPPy.
YAY!
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wow nice results. MVP overcoming his TvP weakness and MKP coming back with even more creative plays. Love these guys.
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How did MKP lose the first set when he gold base rushed and didn't get scouted agianst 15 Nexus? Either way, I can't wait for the finals, MKP for first person to get 3 GSL silvers!
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On April 06 2011 00:43 vnlegend wrote:
wow nice results. MVP overcoming his TvP weakness and MKP coming back with even more creative plays. Love these guys.
Don't agree with the Mvp part, he probably would've gotten 3-0'd if it was MC 4gating or if San had actually played decent games, instead of failing 4gate twice
I hope he'll do better vs Protoss next season though, I'm sure this helped his confidence!
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Can anyone give a recap on the first series (Han vs IMMvp)?
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On April 06 2011 00:02 ct2299 wrote:
I don't see anyone complaining about White-Ra basically calling Sans cheesy and using "brainless" strats. Well here's my comment for White-Ra. If he's so great and smart, he should have been able to hold off such "cheesy" and "brainless" strats but he didn't.
No one is going to respect esports if people here are so bias.
That being said, I admit I am at times bias too for Koreans to try and shed light on how ignorant it everyone else looks when they blindly support foreign players and trash on the Koreans.
that's b/c White-Ra is White and MC/San is not. hehe no use arguing about it buddy, this is a foreign (primarily White) forums and given that they've been rickrolled for the past 11 years in a game that has a higher skill ceiling by koreans, some will be biased if not secretly racist given that bitterness.
kekeke just look at artosis's pathetic bias affecting the accuracy of his commentary during TT1 vs MKP. had to turn it on mute b/c couldn't listen to that shit. haha
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On April 06 2011 00:49 Velladin wrote:
Can anyone give a recap on the first series (Han vs IMMvp)?
Game 1: San's 4 gate fails miserably
Game 2: MVP tries a 2 base slow maurauder tank push but gets owned by chargelot-stalker-colossus. MVP is forced to defend his outer expansions from blink stalkers with marauders, but this weakens his center tank line and San is eventually able to roll over.
Game 3: San tries a cute 4 gate with 1 pylon that can warp in at MVP's nat and 1 pylon that can warp into MVP's main, but MVP went 4 rax and is able to hold it off.
Game 4: Fun macro game where San was ahead most of the game until MVP drops marauders to snipe the templar archives and robo support bay, plus blue flame hellions kill a ton of probes at San's 3rd. San still had the army advantage, but in a matter of 15 seconds MVP emp's San's army with ghosts, snipes all colossus with vikings, then rolls over the rest with marauder ball.
Games 2 and 4 definitely recommended. Be sure to check them out later since the VODs are free.
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United States1383 Posts
yesssss go MKP! Repeat of season 4 finals! Im so excited for this. Come on and get a championship marineking!
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On April 06 2011 00:02 ct2299 wrote:
I don't see anyone complaining about White-Ra basically calling Sans cheesy and using "brainless" strats. Well here's my comment for White-Ra. If he's so great and smart, he should have been able to hold off such "cheesy" and "brainless" strats but he didn't.
When/Where did White-Ra say that?
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I don't mind MC's cockiness. In fact, I applaud it. The difference between Idra and MC is that MC takes losses in his stride. Idra blames everything and everyone but himself, and goes beyond cocky at times to the point of just plain being rude/mean towards his opposition.
Basically, MC throws down the gauntlet, whereas Idra calls the other player terrible, loses the game, and follows it up with a huge rant about Zerg being underpowered.
As for these games, I am so impressed by what I've seen from both MVP and MKP. Not only was it seeming like in the current meta game TvP was heavily Protoss favoured, but they were both taking on two amazing TvP Protosses. One of which being MC who is without question the best Protoss in the world.
MVP showed brilliant tactical ingenuity and decision making to the point where in the final game despite being behind he roflstomped San's superior army due entirely to his excellent positioning and perfect unit mixture.
MKP on the other hand displayed absolutely outstanding micro in the final 3 games. Watching him absolutely destroy packs of Zealots supported by Stalkers time after time with nothing but stutter stepping Marines was incredible, and the way he handled the Void Ray/4 Gate rush was impeccable. MC actually looked outclassed after the first two games which MKP basically threw away.
So yeah, two excellent TvP series showing off entirely different styles. Very happy with today's games.
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EPT
