DreamHack Sapphire AMD Championship kicks off 29th of March 2011 with a ‘fun tournament’ online with 10 000 SEK in prizes and a very special tournament format, every second round will be decided by a coin toss!
The DreamHack SteelSeries LAN-tournament [DSL] at DreamHack Winter 2010 was a huge success, but for one player it ended with a big disappointment. In the group stage, Group D was forced in to a double three way tie and the tournament admins was left with no other option then to make a coin toss on who would advance to the play offs. The unlucky player was Bischu from Team Dignitas, now it´s time for his revenge when DreamHack and partners presents: DreamHack Sapphire AMD Championship Coin Toss Tournament.
The Coin Toss Tournament features Bischu who are waiting in the final for his opponent. The tournament will feature 64 challengers who will fight their way to the final and Bischu in a single elimination bracket where every second round will be decided by a coin toss!
The winner of the tournament is rewarded with 10 000 SEK and the first DreamHack StarCraft II title for this year..
The best matches will be live streamed on DreamHack.se and shoutcasted by some of the best casters in the world. For full information on the tournament please visit www.dreamhack.se DreamHack Sapphire AMD Championship March 29: Coin Toss Online Tournament, SEK 10 000 Prize Purse. April: Stockholm Invitational, SEK 100 000 Prize Purse. June: DreamHack Summer 2011, SEK 200 000 Prize Purse. September: European Invitational, SEK 100 000 Prize Purse. November: DreamHack Winter 2011, SEK 400 000 Prize Purse.
All the winners in the first four tournaments will qualify for the finals at DreamHack Winter 2011. Open Qualifiers will be held online but also through International Qualifiers. More news, detailed information about the tournaments and the official tournament site will be announced shortly.
Haha.. brilliant... I love the way you guys are turning the negative publicity you got from the original event into something that should be quite exciting and random!
On March 18 2011 23:42 Insurrectionist wrote: Have a feeling this tournament will catch a lot of flak from the pros, but if nothing else it should be fun for the viewers!
Haha, brilliant twist on some negative PR with the whole coin flip thing. A nice way to give Bischu something back after he lost out, and a fun lighthearted format that might give a few lesser known players a shot heh
Recongnizing they did something wrong and are now trying to make up for it with a fun event, also giving bischu the chance to get compensated, given he wins the finals Two thumbs up DH!
And even crazier is that I totally misread it. I thought it was every second game (in a best-of series) was a coin toss, it looks like an entire round is determined by coin toss.
That is insane! Should be interesting see what happens, although I'm a little wary. I liked my (misread) idea better. It was more like a Bo1 that had a possibility of the loser getting revenge.
On March 18 2011 23:42 Insurrectionist wrote: Have a feeling this tournament will catch a lot of flak from the pros, but if nothing else it should be fun for the viewers!
think of it as a raffle or something... anyone who really takes this serious as a professional sc2 tournament must be pretty stupid anyway :D
On March 19 2011 22:06 Boona wrote: In a coin toss tournament they definitely need a losers bracket. What if someone just got lucky one round?
Lol, because having a tournament with every second round a coin toss is not supposed to be luck based? Or was is some form of joke that I'm not getting?
The more amusing thing about this tournament will be the butthurt reaction to it by some people. THIS IS SERIOUS, WE CANNOT MAKE LIGHT OF ESPORTS IN ANY WAY.
So, is TB's presence in this thread any indication on his involvement in this grand event? He's probably the only caster out there who's fast enough to cast a coin toss.
Lol, that's actually a pretty ingenious way to make light of what happened. Should be pretty funny. I'm hoping some coin-flipping god gets through to the finals purely on winning flips. (or as close as he can get to it)
On March 19 2011 22:44 Liquid`HuK wrote: fucking stupid
If you maybe knew the reason behind it I believe you would think different.
Umm HuK was at Dreamhack Winter, I believe he got knocked out by Socke, but that has probably happened often enough that I feel deja vu when ever I see HuK vs Socke.
Unless I'm reading into it wrong? If so please say.
:Edit: Oh I see, Socke, the person HuK got knocked out by was put in that bracket by coin flip I think?
On March 19 2011 22:44 Liquid`HuK wrote: fucking stupid
I believe it's absolutely brilliant. This obviously isn't meant to be a prestigious tournament to determine the best player in the world. It's supposed to be silly. How could it possibly be a bad thing?
On March 18 2011 23:35 arioch wrote: Haha.. brilliant... I love the way you guys are turning the negative publicity you got from the original event into something that should be quite exciting and random!
Eh, its not that random. Only 20 of the top 32 will be eliminated by chance ^^
Ok everyone who thinks this is a good idea for a tournament. What about taking actual skill into account in order to actually win a tournament... I totally agree incontrol...
Rofl at all the people who are listening to sotg bandwagoning incontrol, kind of pathetic, the tournament is a PR thing to start of DH tournament season and also an apology to bischu, its their tournament and its a new interesting concept for a bit of a laugh, there is a million and one other super serious tournaments for huge amounts of money this year
well what kind of serious player would want to compete if their fate is depended on a coin instead of skill? A really bad player can easily reach up there easily. It seems they want to give Bischu money as an apology but they want to publically do it and be humorious about it so meh......
On March 23 2011 14:06 gregnog wrote: Definitely a bad day for e-sports. This is supposed to make all the children giggle and laugh or something because its just a dumb video game right?
The creator of this needs to be shot.
Lets just make the entire tournament coin toss please, why even play this silly game... amiright?
I hope this is satire :/
I liked it, nice twist on the situation (as best as could be made anyway).
This is gross, I don't like having good players knocked out by chance, especially when I like to view their games. As mentioned earlier, a bad day for e-sports, but uh...'The creator of this needs to be shot' was mildly frightening . O.o
Instead of trying to make up for Bischu's elimination with a chance-based lottery, I would much rather see a ranking system implemented that correctly handles three-way ties in the first place.
If you don't like it the tournament, don't participate/watch it. It's as simple as that. The only thing this kind of twist may damage is the pride of those who believe that eSports must never be taken lightly. As to which I must ask; why so serious? No one will think less of the scene because of a small to medium sized event like this. Once it's over it'll soon be forgotten. Those who take it for what it is will most certainly have a blast though.
Notice how people started smacking down on this tournament only after some important names had spoken out against it. I guess it's officially a big deal now?
wow...wtf? "yeah guys lets help e-sports by making a random tournament where skill barely comes into the picture at all. Sponsors will love that and TOTALLY take us seriously now!!"
who the hell thought this was a good idea, if they explain why they are putting so much money on a practically a series of coin flips I might not think this is a waste of time but atm it is a complete and total waste of time and money
On March 23 2011 22:03 Sega92 wrote: wow...wtf? "yeah guys lets help e-sports by making a random tournament where skill barely comes into the picture at all. Sponsors will love that and TOTALLY take us seriously now!!"
who the hell thought this was a good idea, if they explain why they are putting so much money on a practically a series of coin flips I might not think this is a waste of time but atm it is a complete and total waste of time and money
What is wrong with you people? This is basically a make up show-match with Bischu with a lottery for who gets to face him, done in a way to poke fun at themselves for screwing up before. This it neither retarded or stupid some have put it in this thread. Lighten up...
On March 23 2011 22:03 Sega92 wrote: wow...wtf? "yeah guys lets help e-sports by making a random tournament where skill barely comes into the picture at all. Sponsors will love that and TOTALLY take us seriously now!!"
who the hell thought this was a good idea, if they explain why they are putting so much money on a practically a series of coin flips I might not think this is a waste of time but atm it is a complete and total waste of time and money
What is wrong with you people? This is basically a make up show-match with Bischu with a lottery for who gets to face him, done in a way to poke fun at themselves for screwing up before. This it neither retarded or stupid some have put it in this thread. Lighten up...
yah basically a showmatch with a twist but meh, bandwagoners gonna bandwagon btw pretty sure sponsors have been taking esports seriously for manymany years now so what the hell is that over and over again ...
The mad people basically doesnt seem to be able to see it for what it is: a "fun" event while also an apology. If some random dude wouldve organized a tournament with Funday Monday rules for some prize nodoby wouldve complained. But now its DreamHack. And its with a decsent prize pool. THEREFORE YOU ARE NOT ALLOWED TO MAKE IT A FUN EVENT, IT MUST BE AN EVENT LIKE EVERY OTHER TOURNAMENT OUT THERE AND SAME RULES THAT NORMALLY APPLIES MUST ALSO APPLY NOW, OTHERWISE ITS STUPID!!!!
If it wouldve been meant as a serious tournament WHERE SKILL WAS MEANT TO BE THE DECIDING FACTOR it would indeed have been stupid. But its not.
Feel free to think of it as a waste of time and money though, that up to anyone to think. But if its a waste of time why do you even bother? And considering the publicity they get for "wasting" roughly 1% of their yearly prize purse, Im not sure how anyone can consider it to be a waste of money.
I don't see how this gets so much shit from everyone.
It's basically DH confessing "Okay we fucked up" giving bischu a chance for compensation. The coinflip part is brilliant because they're able to make fun of themselves while giving Bischu this oppertunity. People coming in saying it's terrible for e-sports... not really? If anything it's good that orgnanizers recongnizes their mistakes and try to make up for them.
Great marketing from Dreamhack, having fun with the issue of coin flip from DHW10. They are taking control over it and is making something fun and viewer friendly, the buzz is already happening. Low cost publicity.
They must change the rule for this season to make it work, otherwise it will bite them in the ass. But I guess they have already done that.
On March 24 2011 00:12 Jiddra wrote: Great marketing from Dreamhack, having fun with the issue of coin flip from DHW10. They are taking control over it and is making something fun and viewer friendly, the buzz is already happening. Low cost publicity.
They must change the rule for this season to make it work, otherwise it will bite them in the ass. But I guess they have already done that.
Indeed, the GSL system wich can't get a tie seems fairly brilliant, however it produces less games. IEMs groupstages produced alot of entertainment, but for organizers who have to stick to a schedule, it would be a nightmare...
Let me explain why this tournament may seem cool on the surface, but when you go through the logical steps is not interesting. The tournament is 64 people with 2 coinflip rounds. A each coinflip will knock out 50% of people for a total of 75% removal by coinflip. This boils the tournament down to a 16 man tournament. I can acheive exactly the same results by picking 16 names out of a hat to participate without making top end players act like puppets for our amusement.
Lets go into a specific example, suppose I have a 4 man bracket.
Player 1 Player 2
Player 3 Player 4
Lets suppose player 1 wins and player 3 wins, and then a coinflip eliminates player three. What I actually get is a tournament of two people Player 1 vs Player 2 and the entire bracket of Player 3 and Player 4 is out.
I can coinflip the games early and only play Player 1 and Player 2 and save the other players the frustration.
Now in a 64 man tournament it is possible to conflip early (WITH NO CHANGE TO THE RESULT OR PLAY OF THE TOURNAMENT) and reduce the tournament to a 16 man random invite tournament, because for 48 people their games are 100% meaningless.
I wouldn't mind seeing fun and interesting tournament ideas, but this one on a deeper level is not interesting. This tournament frustrates players (75% of them) with meaningless games and is actually just a normal 16 man tournament in disguise.
Now I don't fault dreamhack for making a coinflip tourny, I like what they are trying to do. However, I think the idea needs to be thought through more, perhaps something like best of 2 matches with ties being coinflipped. Give the players a chance to outplay their fate.
On March 24 2011 01:21 WGarrison wrote: Let me explain why this tournament may seem cool on the surface, but when you go through the logical steps is not interesting. The tournament is 64 people with 2 coinflip rounds. A each coinflip will knock out 50% of people for a total of 75% removal by coinflip. This boils the tournament down to a 16 man tournament. I can acheive exactly the same results by picking 16 names out of a hat to participate without making top end players act like puppets for our amusement.
Lets go into a specific example, suppose I have a 4 man bracket.
Player 1 Player 2
Player 3 Player 4
Lets suppose player 1 wins and player 3 wins, and then a coinflip eliminates player three. What I actually get is a tournament of two people Player 1 vs Player 2 and the entire bracket of Player 3 and Player 4 is out.
I can coinflip the games early and only play Player 1 and Player 2 and save the other players the frustration.
Now in a 64 man tournament it is possible to conflip early (WITH NO CHANGE TO THE RESULT OR PLAY OF THE TOURNAMENT) and reduce the tournament to a 16 man random invite tournament, because for 48 people their games are 100% meaningless.
I wouldn't mind seeing fun and interesting tournament ideas, but this one on a deeper level is not interesting. This tournament frustrates players (75% of them) with meaningless games and is actually just a normal 16 man tournament in disguise.
Now I don't fault dreamhack for making a coinflip tourny, I like what they are trying to do. However, I think the idea needs to be thought through more, perhaps something like best of 2 matches with ties being coinflipped. Give the players a chance to outplay their fate.
That's not the point of this though. It's not supposed to be a tournament in the sense of ''who is the best player'', it's simply a public apology/compensation for Bischu that has been made into a ''tournament'' for PR and entertainment (which I personally think is a great idea).
I think people need to stop treating this as a tournament and look at it as a fun PR-event where Dreamhack pokes fun at themselves for screwing up while also essentially giving Bischu a 10k check as compensation for DHs fail at DH winter, the fact that it's presented in the form of a tournament is really quite irrelevant.
On March 24 2011 01:31 Blondinbengt wrote: That's not the point of this though. It's not supposed to be a tournament in the sense of ''who is the best player'', it's simply a public apology/compensation for Bischu that has been made into a ''tournament'' for PR and entertainment (which I personally think is a great idea).
I don't think telling players, "sorry but you matches don't matter", is entertaining or good PR.
On March 24 2011 01:31 Blondinbengt wrote: That's not the point of this though. It's not supposed to be a tournament in the sense of ''who is the best player'', it's simply a public apology/compensation for Bischu that has been made into a ''tournament'' for PR and entertainment (which I personally think is a great idea).
I don't think telling players, "sorry but you matches don't matter", is entertaining or good PR.
You make it sound like someone is forcing the players to participate...
And once again, this is about making up to Bischu. They could just have easily made this a show match against another invite and nobody would complain but personally I find this much more fun (yes gasp) way to handle it. It's not about the other players, that despite the coin toss have a decent chance to make some money I might add.
I don't think this is a good idea. If a tournament is being funded for ~$1500 then I don't understand why it doesn't go to a player that deserves it. Come on, a coin toss? That means I could beat oGsMC, the best player in the world based on something completely random. I'd love for this to have a prize pool of something small, if anything, and then have the rest of the money to go to the Dreamhack Stockholm tournament instead. It's a fine gimmick but I'd rather have that amount of money go to someone who fought there way to the finals.
On March 24 2011 08:45 S.O.L.I.D. wrote: I don't think this is a good idea. If a tournament is being funded for ~$1500 then I don't understand why it doesn't go to a player that deserves it. Come on, a coin toss? That means I could beat oGsMC, the best player in the world based on something completely random. I'd love for this to have a prize pool of something small, if anything, and then have the rest of the money to go to the Dreamhack Stockholm tournament instead. It's a fine gimmick but I'd rather have that amount of money go to someone who fought there way to the finals.
Don't get so caught up in it being about the best player getting the money. This is basically a excuse to Bishu for getting eliminated in that way saying hey we feel bad We are going to give you the chance to play for 1500 USD.
Now they make something fun about it. No one is forcing players to participate and no one is thinking that this will show who the better player is. This is just a fun way to basically say Hey we fucked up and we know it so we wanna give back to the guy who suffered for our mistake.
On March 24 2011 10:18 ExquisiteRed wrote: From what I've heard most players really don't like this
I can't understand why fans would like this, you got TLO vs. Morrow epic best of 5 coming up and they toss a coin cause they happen to be in the wrong round where they don't actually play the games.
Wow people are so stupid. This isn;t about giving other players money, it's about them trying to make up what happened to Bischu. If someone wants to test their luck and go for it, then they should, but they should consider this a potential monetary grab, (i.e. lottery), instead of an actual tournament.
On March 24 2011 00:11 meRz wrote: I don't see how this gets so much shit from everyone.
It's basically DH confessing "Okay we fucked up" giving bischu a chance for compensation. The coinflip part is brilliant because they're able to make fun of themselves while giving Bischu this oppertunity. People coming in saying it's terrible for e-sports... not really? If anything it's good that orgnanizers recongnizes their mistakes and try to make up for them.
Lol yeh, this tourny is awesome. People should stop being so goddamn serious! It's just for fun, and anyone who signs up for it will be prepared for what happens. Go Bischu, hope he wins moneys!
Although seriously I hope DH have a much better process for tiebreakers if they happen at future major tournaments.
1) This tournament wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the coin toss that knocked out Bischu from an earlier Dreamhack. 2) The coin-toss is a mechanism for finding an opponent for Bischu to face in a showmatch for $1500 or whatever it is. It is ironic and a stab at themselves in good humour by Dreamhack 3) Repeat 1) This is not Dreamhack main event, this is a tournament that is a payback to Bischu for being knocked out by a coin-toss at a previous Dreamhack main event.
* Disclamer * I don't hate fun ideas, I'm not an idiot, and I'm not a whiner.
I just don't think the idea of a coin flip tournament is a good idea at all. Like I said before it boils down into a frustrating 16 man tournament. It is also not respectful to the players and what they do.
If they wanted to make fun of themselves and make up for the coinflip situation, I propose the following idea.
54 man tie-breaker tournament. 2 brackets of 27 people. Instead of having pairs of people play against each other as in a normal tournament, every bracket is a set of three people. These three people play tiebreakers until a winner is determined. The winners of each set go into the next 3 person bracket. At the end the winners of the 2 brackets go into a tiebreaker with bischu to determine the winner.
This idea would still poke fun at the result of the coin flip. It would still be an apology and opportunity to Bischu. It would still be fun and silly. But it wouldn't be totally frustrating to the players and would be a better idea fundamentally.
On March 24 2011 01:21 WGarrison wrote: Let me explain why this tournament may seem cool on the surface, but when you go through the logical steps is not interesting. The tournament is 64 people with 2 coinflip rounds. A each coinflip will knock out 50% of people for a total of 75% removal by coinflip. This boils the tournament down to a 16 man tournament. I can acheive exactly the same results by picking 16 names out of a hat to participate without making top end players act like puppets for our amusement.
Lets go into a specific example, suppose I have a 4 man bracket.
Player 1 Player 2
Player 3 Player 4
Lets suppose player 1 wins and player 3 wins, and then a coinflip eliminates player three. What I actually get is a tournament of two people Player 1 vs Player 2 and the entire bracket of Player 3 and Player 4 is out.
I can coinflip the games early and only play Player 1 and Player 2 and save the other players the frustration.
Now in a 64 man tournament it is possible to conflip early (WITH NO CHANGE TO THE RESULT OR PLAY OF THE TOURNAMENT) and reduce the tournament to a 16 man random invite tournament, because for 48 people their games are 100% meaningless.
I wouldn't mind seeing fun and interesting tournament ideas, but this one on a deeper level is not interesting. This tournament frustrates players (75% of them) with meaningless games and is actually just a normal 16 man tournament in disguise.
Now I don't fault dreamhack for making a coinflip tourny, I like what they are trying to do. However, I think the idea needs to be thought through more, perhaps something like best of 2 matches with ties being coinflipped. Give the players a chance to outplay their fate.
You are right in your math, still you seem to forget two things.
1. For a lot of people, lotteries gives excitement and a subject to socialize around. 2. The value of playing SC2 is not necessarily the amount of money you expect to win. Have fun ^^
The Coin Toss Tournament is basically a StarCraft tournament and lottery combined. The event is targeted at people who (1) likes StarCraft and (2) likes lotteries. If you are person who doesn't fit this demographic then this tournament simply isn't meant for you.
On March 26 2011 03:53 someperson wrote: It would be awesome if they had the players in the coin-flip rounds on a webcam so we could see their live reactions.
Would be quite epic.
lol! I would be so mad if I lost to coin toss, definitely an hilarious idea.
I guess the players know what they're geting themselves into. I really have no interest in a tournament where the best player isn't necessarily supposed to win.
This is hilarious and a good way for making up for the initial stupidity of that rule. Have some damn humour guys. Why is everyone going "this isn't a serious tournament, I won't watch" ...
On March 25 2011 04:19 Hilberer wrote: Awesome tour! To bad there are so many retards from US.
Why pick on the US? I'm from Sweden and I think this idea is pretty damn terrible. The only reason I'm not flaming it with all my might is because Bischu is insta-seeded to the finals.
On March 24 2011 01:21 WGarrison wrote: Let me explain why this tournament may seem cool on the surface, but when you go through the logical steps is not interesting. The tournament is 64 people with 2 coinflip rounds. A each coinflip will knock out 50% of people for a total of 75% removal by coinflip. This boils the tournament down to a 16 man tournament. I can acheive exactly the same results by picking 16 names out of a hat to participate without making top end players act like puppets for our amusement.
Lets go into a specific example, suppose I have a 4 man bracket.
Player 1 Player 2
Player 3 Player 4
Lets suppose player 1 wins and player 3 wins, and then a coinflip eliminates player three. What I actually get is a tournament of two people Player 1 vs Player 2 and the entire bracket of Player 3 and Player 4 is out.
I can coinflip the games early and only play Player 1 and Player 2 and save the other players the frustration.
Now in a 64 man tournament it is possible to conflip early (WITH NO CHANGE TO THE RESULT OR PLAY OF THE TOURNAMENT) and reduce the tournament to a 16 man random invite tournament, because for 48 people their games are 100% meaningless.
I wouldn't mind seeing fun and interesting tournament ideas, but this one on a deeper level is not interesting. This tournament frustrates players (75% of them) with meaningless games and is actually just a normal 16 man tournament in disguise.
Now I don't fault dreamhack for making a coinflip tourny, I like what they are trying to do. However, I think the idea needs to be thought through more, perhaps something like best of 2 matches with ties being coinflipped. Give the players a chance to outplay their fate.
You are right in your math, still you seem to forget two things.
1. For a lot of people, lotteries gives excitement and a subject to socialize around. 2. The value of playing SC2 is not necessarily the amount of money you expect to win. Have fun ^^
The Coin Toss Tournament is basically a StarCraft tournament and lottery combined. The event is targeted at people who (1) likes StarCraft and (2) likes lotteries. If you are person who doesn't fit this demographic then this tournament simply isn't meant for you.
I like Starcraft, I don't hate lotteries. What I don't like is mixing effort with lotteries. I dislike the idea of having to put forth a lot of effort and competativeness prior to getting entered into a lottery.
If you make someone try their hardest to win a game, and then follow it up with a coinflip, it is still wrong regardless of the purpose of the tournament. I think there are so many better ways to have done this tournament, and I have posted some of those ideas earlier this thread.
On March 24 2011 12:43 Nicodemusher wrote: So we make up for fucking one person over by fucking 64 others over? Fucking stupid indeed...
I don't understand this opinion, No one is holding a gun to the players heads and threatens to kill them if they do not enter the tournament.
If they think its silly and "fucks them over" i guess they have no need to play in it.
No, but saying "hey! we're going to give all this prize money to the winner of this tournament, but this player only has to get lucky!" isn't much of a tournament at all. They have the right to do it, I just think it's really dumb; SCII is supposed to be about skill, the cointoss, joke or not, just cheapens the tournament, the Dreamhack brand, and SCII as an esport.
* 1st place: 10 000 SEK + Wildcard to DreamHack Summer 2011 * 2nd place: Wildcard to DreamHack Summer 2011 * To receive a prize in the tournament, the player must hand in appropriate information and papers to Dreamhack. More information here: http://www.dreamhack.se/DHS11/programme/esport/prize-money-policy/
Keep in mind that money isn't the only thing that's on the line; wildcard spots are aswell.
I think this is a fun tournament idea, and although the better player isn't neccesarily the winner, it creates a rather fun story for the wildcards once DreamHack Summer 2011 rolls around.
On March 24 2011 15:32 bennyaus wrote: For all the idiots in this thread:
1) This tournament wouldn't be happening if it wasn't for the coin toss that knocked out Bischu from an earlier Dreamhack. 2) The coin-toss is a mechanism for finding an opponent for Bischu to face in a showmatch for $1500 or whatever it is. It is ironic and a stab at themselves in good humour by Dreamhack 3) Repeat 1) This is not Dreamhack main event, this is a tournament that is a payback to Bischu for being knocked out by a coin-toss at a previous Dreamhack main event.
Agreed. It's all in good fun, and $1500 is not a big deal to an organization like dreamhack, compare it to the total pricepool of the entire year, its practically nothing. I also assume the players, that will participate, are well aware of the rules. If they don't like them, they don't have to play, it's as simple as that.
I really like this,and I will watch it. I wont see it as a "serious tourmant" tho, execpt the final showmatch, i guess you could call it. But as entertainment, and still some potential for good game, I don't see the problem.
Oh and seeing as the tournament is "random" in a way, i expect to see some funky play, just becuse of the nature of the tournemnt. Which, I'll say it again, has great entertainment value.
On March 28 2011 08:21 Disciple7 wrote: So did anyone else realize that most PvP matches are considered coin tosses. Coin TOSS. Is it just me, or did Bischu just get a new nickname?
Haha, totally. From now on we should call him coinToss!
I love this tourney, fun and will make for some great drama! And Dreamhack doing a great job with the real important tourneys coming this year. This is just a fun happening! No harm done! Let the best player win(or the most lucky) !
Streamers announced Original message from dreamhack.se: Live stream with Apollo & 2GD
DreamHack Sapphire AMD Championship kicks off 29th of March 2011 with a ‘fun tournament’ online with 10 000 SEK in prizes and a very special tournament format, every second round will be decided by a coin toss!
Tournament have 64 slots and they all fight for a spot against Bischu who awaits an opponent in the final where the winner is paid 10 000 SEK. Tournament is named “Coin toss tournament” since every second round in the single elimination bracket will be decided by a coinflip! Sign up for the tournament today!
The tournament will be live streamed and shoutcasted by Shaun “Apollo” Clark and James “2GD” Harding who promise a great evening with lots of great StarCraft II entertainment.
During the live show our sponsor Sapphire will do some really exciting competitions on their Facebook-page where you can win Sapphire graphic cards and processors from AMD, be sure to watch the stream and take the chance to win!
Schedule: Round of 64: Best of 3 Round of 32: Decided by coinflip, winner advances Round of 16: Best of 3 Round of 8: Decided by coinflip, winner advances Semifinals: Best of 3 Final: Best of 3 Grand Final: Winner of Tournament vs. Bischu – Best of 5
On March 28 2011 08:21 Disciple7 wrote: So did anyone else realize that most PvP matches are considered coin tosses. Coin TOSS. Is it just me, or did Bischu just get a new nickname?
Haha, totally. From now on we should call him coinToss!
On March 28 2011 08:21 Disciple7 wrote: So did anyone else realize that most PvP matches are considered coin tosses. Coin TOSS. Is it just me, or did Bischu just get a new nickname?
Haha, totally. From now on we should call him coinToss!
crap 17.00 cet... i might not make it from work by then... Cant miss such epic event. Only one down side... Sorry d.Apollo but i would prefer TotalBiscuit to cast the coin toss (you could still cast the games).
On the side note. Its funny that pro players are thinking its a bad idea especially if you consider what race are they playing. Tyler, Incontrol, Huk, Socke all are Protoss whose mirror match is basically a coin flip.
On March 28 2011 08:21 Disciple7 wrote: So did anyone else realize that most PvP matches are considered coin tosses. Coin TOSS. Is it just me, or did Bischu just get a new nickname?
Haha, totally. From now on we should call him coinToss!
He actually already has that nickname. There is a reason his American account is "dignitasCT"
Ah, I love this. Its fun, and non serious. Also, it disadvantages the better players. So this way somebody without a big name has a better chance to advance to the grand final.
at first my reaction to this was along the lines of what incontrol said on SOTG but honestly you cant deny how funny in itself this is and that you are also totally making up for how bischu was treated at dreamhack. Getting the short end of a stick due to a cointoss after all he'd been through(playing a tourney up untill that point and everything that brings with it) and then lose to a coin flip, you guys deserve huge cred for doing this. Never though I'd say this but I'm really looking forward to this tournament especially considering the coinflips are part of it :D
Edit: just realised it's today, oh shiiiii!! and the casters are great as well. This is gonna be hype!
For all of you saying there is no skill required to win this tournament, you're simply wrong.
The guy who said that this is equivalent to randomly choosing 16 of the 64 players is also wrong, because the thing that determines who gets to flip the coin is skill. In his scenario it would be possible to randomly pick 16 of the least skilled players to fight for a chance against Bishu. However, that is impossible because the least skilled players wont advance in round 1 or 3, even if they are guaranteed to win the coin tosses.
There are 5 real rounds, and 2 chance rounds, the thing that gets players past the 5 real rounds to the prize is skill. So while it's still possible to eliminate the 20 best players through chance, it's not possible for the least skilled players to advance through skill.
You should really look at it like this: Take 32 of the most skilled players from the initial pool of 64 and randomly discard 16 Take 8 of the most skilled players from the remaining 16, and randomly discard 4. Then those 4 play till 1 fights bishu.
Do the players get to choose which side of the coin they want? Cause that actually takes a lot of skill. I've been practicing a ton and I'm still wrong pretty often.
this may be good for some "lols" but I don`t like the huge luck-component... better give the money to some homeless dudes and let the players participate for fun. You can`t take this "competition" serious by any means.
On March 29 2011 23:11 Aeres wrote: This is so fucking stupid. Which is why I'll watch every game. =D
Does anyone have any idea what Bischu thinks of this? Most likely he'll be relieved / amused, but I think it'd be cool to hear what his words are.
Getting a guaranteed wild card to the dreamhack 200 000 SEK tournament and a pretty good chance to win 10 000 for one serie, probably mean he's pretty happy.
On March 29 2011 18:21 max.711 wrote: For all of you saying there is no skill required to win this tournament, you're simply wrong.
The guy who said that this is equivalent to randomly choosing 16 of the 64 players is also wrong, because the thing that determines who gets to flip the coin is skill. In his scenario it would be possible to randomly pick 16 of the least skilled players to fight for a chance against Bishu. However, that is impossible because the least skilled players wont advance in round 1 or 3, even if they are guaranteed to win the coin tosses.
You don't understand the math behind it clearly.
If we have a small portion tournament:
Skilled player 1 Less skilled player 2
Skilled player 3 Less skilled player 4
The coinflip is UNAFFECTED by who advances. Lets say player 1 and 3 advance and the coin flipped tails to let player 3 advance. The coin was going to be tails always, and the winner of player 3 and 4 was going to advance always, regardless of the skillsets in the other bracket. The coinflip reduced the bracket to:
Skilled Player 3 Less skilled player 4
Expand that to the full bracket. You are getting a tournament of 16 random players regardless of skill, they advance though the 16 man tournament thereafter based on skill. Skilled player 3 advances on skill, but only because he was fortunate enough to be in a bracket that actually counted. The skills of player 1 and 2 mean nothing, as the coinflip means that they have no influence in the tournament whatsoever.
There are 5 real rounds, and 2 chance rounds, the thing that gets players past the 5 real rounds to the prize is skill. So while it's still possible to eliminate the 20 best players through chance, it's not possible for the least skilled players to advance through skill.
Hmmm, 5 real rounds, best players advance, lesser players eliminated. What does this sound like, hmmmmm, OH YEAH, this is a 16 man tournament!
You should really look at it like this: Take 32 of the most skilled players from the initial pool of 64 and randomly discard 16 Take 8 of the most skilled players from the remaining 16, and randomly discard 4. Then those 4 play till 1 fights bishu
On the surface you are correct, I am analyzing it a step forward. This is like me explaining how a watch works and you tell me, "look at it this way, a watch helps you tell time during the day". On the surface it works as you describe, but mathmatically what you are describing is a 16 man tournament with random invites.
On March 29 2011 18:21 max.711 wrote: For all of you saying there is no skill required to win this tournament, you're simply wrong.
The guy who said that this is equivalent to randomly choosing 16 of the 64 players is also wrong, because the thing that determines who gets to flip the coin is skill. In his scenario it would be possible to randomly pick 16 of the least skilled players to fight for a chance against Bishu. However, that is impossible because the least skilled players wont advance in round 1 or 3, even if they are guaranteed to win the coin tosses.
You don't understand the math behind it clearly.
If we have a small portion tournament:
Skilled player 1 Less skilled player 2
Skilled player 3 Less skilled player 4
The coinflip is UNAFFECTED by who advances. Lets say player 1 and 3 advance and the coin flipped tails to let player 3 advance. The coin was going to be tails always, and the winner of player 3 and 4 was going to advance always, regardless of the skillsets in the other bracket. The coinflip reduced the bracket to:
Skilled Player 3 Less skilled player 4
Expand that to the full bracket. You are getting a tournament of 16 random players regardless of skill, they advance though the 16 man tournament thereafter based on skill. Skilled player 3 advances on skill, but only because he was fortunate enough to be in a bracket that actually counted. The skills of player 1 and 2 mean nothing, as the coinflip means that they have no influence in the tournament whatsoever.
There are 5 real rounds, and 2 chance rounds, the thing that gets players past the 5 real rounds to the prize is skill. So while it's still possible to eliminate the 20 best players through chance, it's not possible for the least skilled players to advance through skill.
Hmmm, 5 real rounds, best players advance, lesser players eliminated. What does this sound like, hmmmmm, OH YEAH, this is a 16 man tournament!
You should really look at it like this: Take 32 of the most skilled players from the initial pool of 64 and randomly discard 16 Take 8 of the most skilled players from the remaining 16, and randomly discard 4. Then those 4 play till 1 fights bishu
On the surface you are correct, I am analyzing it a step forward. This is like me explaining how a watch works and you tell me, "look at it this way, a watch helps you tell time during the day". On the surface it works as you describe, but mathmatically what you are describing is a 16 man tournament with random invites.
Bollocks. My coin flipping skill would own your math.
LOL people are still raging over this? I mean, you aren't allowed to poke fun at yourself and apologize to someone at the same time?
I mean, WAKE UP people, I'm enjoying every game plus the coin toss, nobody was forced to enter, and Dreamhack realize they fucked up earlier, and give Bischu a chance to make 1k euro back in the process. What is SO WRONG about it?
On March 30 2011 01:26 MBH wrote: Sarcasm detector needed...
It would have been obvious sarcasm if there had actually been anyone taking it serious before you post. You made the post right after several people expressed positive comments about them playing terran. Sarcasm translates poorly over internet, that is common knowledge.
There are enough other tournaments to enter/watch. If you aren't a fan of this then don't play in it/watch it. It's clear beforehand what the tournament is.
On March 30 2011 01:42 whiterabbit wrote: Official caster of this tournament is kinda cool, doing great job!
Its James Harding and hes natural caster... worked for ESL-TV til early 2010 I think and always is a pleasure to watch
He's been commentating longer than that, for CS and Quake, and he's also the community manager for bloodline champions, one of the best commentators in the business, regardless of game.
SC2 attracting everyone, even James, haven't heard him in a long time and already feeling all warm and fuzzy inside again, he's such a great commentator!
I know this is half-fun tournament (with coin flips, some off-racing etc) but I have to say this is one of tournament coverages I mostly enjoyed recently. Dunno exactly why but casters are awesome and it's unbelievable interesting listening them between games. Great job DreamHack!
On March 30 2011 03:23 whiterabbit wrote: I know this is half-fun tournament (with coin flips, some off-racing etc) but I have to say this is one of tournament coverages I mostly enjoyed recently. Dunno exactly why but casters are awesome and it's unbelievable interesting listening them between games. Great job DreamHack!
Thats what James 2g harding is amaznig at. He is a great filler. He casted a WoW tournament where literally there was absolutely no WoW games in 2 days because of Blizzard. But for 2 days straight the cast was still great because of him!
On March 30 2011 03:23 whiterabbit wrote: I know this is half-fun tournament (with coin flips, some off-racing etc) but I have to say this is one of tournament coverages I mostly enjoyed recently. Dunno exactly why but casters are awesome and it's unbelievable interesting listening them between games. Great job DreamHack!
Thats what James 2g harding is amaznig at. He is a great filler. He casted a WoW tournament where literally there was absolutely no WoW games in 2 days because of Blizzard. But for 2 days straight the cast was still great because of him!
Haha, I remember that, IEM Edmonton I think it was, 2gd is a great caster. Hopefully he keeps at Starcraft and deepens his knowledge of the game.
On March 30 2011 03:23 whiterabbit wrote: I know this is half-fun tournament (with coin flips, some off-racing etc) but I have to say this is one of tournament coverages I mostly enjoyed recently. Dunno exactly why but casters are awesome and it's unbelievable interesting listening them between games. Great job DreamHack!
Thats what James 2g harding is amaznig at. He is a great filler. He casted a WoW tournament where literally there was absolutely no WoW games in 2 days because of Blizzard. But for 2 days straight the cast was still great because of him!
Haha, I remember that, IEM Edmonton I think it was, 2gd is a great caster. Hopefully he keeps at Starcraft and deepens his knowledge of the game.
On March 30 2011 03:41 IceColdKilla wrote: So Bischu has got guaranteed slot in the DreamHack Winter finals? or just the Top2 of the tournament (Nerchio, Socke or Jon) will get their slot?
It says:
Prizes: 10 000 SEK 1. 10 000 SEK + Wildcard to DreamHack Summer 2011 2. Wildcard to DreamHack Summer 2011
So Probably Bischu and who ever face him in the final gets it. (summer btw)
On March 30 2011 03:54 senex wrote: 2GD just owns the shit out of every caster out there. Most entertaining stream I've watched in ages =D
He pmuch always is the best caster in every game-community , WoW, Quake, Counter Strike, he never disappoints ! Especially when he shits with the other casters hehe.
On March 30 2011 04:11 Gator wrote: Is the final of Nerchio vs the winner of socke v jon going to be decided by coinflip?
No. Only Ro32 and Ro8 was coinflips.
Schedule from the official website to back it up Round of 64: Best of 3 Round of 32: Decided by coinflip, winner advances Round of 16: Best of 3 Round of 8: Decided by coinflip, winner advances Semifinals: Best of 3 Final: Best of 3 Grand Final: Winner of Tournament vs. Bischu – Best of 5
On March 30 2011 04:13 Fyzar wrote: Btw, just tuned in, who the fuck is Jon ^^?
I think they said that he is some danish guy from SK gaming or something.
There was a finnish guy named ''Jon'' in wc3 and he played human. And now there is 4047 point zerg in finnish ladder with the same name. Might be the same guy.
On March 30 2011 04:13 Fyzar wrote: Btw, just tuned in, who the fuck is Jon ^^?
I think they said that he is some danish guy from SK gaming or something.
There was a finnish guy named ''Jon'' in wc3 and he played human. And now there is 4047 point zerg in finnish ladder with the same name. Might be the same guy.
On March 30 2011 04:13 Fyzar wrote: Btw, just tuned in, who the fuck is Jon ^^?
I think they said that he is some danish guy from SK gaming or something.
There was a finnish guy named ''Jon'' in wc3 and he played human. And now there is 4047 point zerg in finnish ladder with the same name. Might be the same guy.
On March 30 2011 05:05 udgnim wrote: so I got successfully trolled and this is an actual SC2 tournament and not a coin toss tournament?
LOL Same for me. I thought they would do the coin toss until the final and then play a normal bo3/bo5. But they played a lot of matches and I missed it.
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Survive all the crazyness that is coinflipping just to lose from maps has to be a bit frusterating
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
this
Dont know if u play Zerg or maybe terran but frocefields have made me almost kill my self after evry loss against toss i totaly understand him. But Socke didt play bad, he did a good match and he deservs go to the final, even tho i think hes map choises was a bit sad against Zergs((
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Survive all the crazyness that is coinflipping just to lose from maps has to be a bit frusterating
Safe to say that everybody would do that... why not choose the maps you have the best chances at? Its more for the tournament organization to get a balanced map pool.
And yes, I did feel for nerchio for beeing unlucky with maps and positions, but I dont think you can blame Socke for that. It is not like Socke played bad or anything.
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Wait, you are saying you would not pick maps that favor you and risk the prize money after making it to the semifinals and purposefully handicap yourself? That comes off as a rather petty gripe and that you are just trying to stir up controversy were none should be involved.
Dreamhack making up for their failures during the Winter tournament by arranging a new tourney with even more coinflips and playing on Blizzard maps that is not used in tournaments anymore.
Next up we have an invite tournament with the 8 most hyped players in the world...
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Survive all the crazyness that is coinflipping just to lose from maps has to be a bit frusterating
Safe to say that everybody would do that... why not choose the maps you have the best chances at? Its more for the tournament organization to get a balanced map pool.
And yes, I did feel for nerchio for beeing unlucky with maps and positions, but I dont think you can blame Socke for that. It is not like Socke played bad or anything.
Yea, you can't blame Socke (If you noticed I said play to win at the end). They should have definately picked MLG Meta or whatever with the no close positions. In a tournament that is somewhat decided by coin flips, can't expect perfection:-P + Show Spoiler +
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Wait, you are saying you would not pick maps that favor you and risk the prize money after making it to the semifinals and purposefully handicap yourself? That comes off as a rather petty gripe and that you are just trying to stir up controversy were none should be involved.
On March 30 2011 05:27 DennizR wrote: Hahaha, one of the best casters ever, seriously. Hire this guy everywhere
Anyone have a link to other stuff he has casted? Or perhaps a link to a collection of links? :>
He is James "2gd" Harding(?). He used to work for ESL (don't know what happened). He casted a lot of WoW and actually made it fun to watch. Also used to be a pro QuakeLive player, now a caster
Grubby vs MackerBac - PvP Grubby vs Naniwa - PvP - Cointoss round Naniwa vs Socke - PvP (technically players played offrace but we could have had PvP) Socke vs Sase - PvP - Cointoss round And now Socke facing 2 zergs Final Socke vs Bischu - PvP
On March 30 2011 05:27 DennizR wrote: Hahaha, one of the best casters ever, seriously. Hire this guy everywhere
Anyone have a link to other stuff he has casted? Or perhaps a link to a collection of links? :>
Some vids of 2gd:
Somebody made this years ago whilst he was ESL's WoW/Quakelive caster, but breaks off into other games aswell. He's a former quakelive/wow pro gamer from fnatic who joined ESL like 2008 or something.
Go watch any quakelive cast with him on ESLTV, you'll realise when he knows everything inside out his casting become worldclass. He's bascially the Artosis of quake (in terms of casting), with the humor your watching now. I doubt he'll be doing loads of SC2 though as hes a manager of Stunlock Studios' game BLC (backed by Funcom).
On March 30 2011 05:35 Frankon wrote: Funny fact about this tourney
Lets look at bracket.
Grubby vs MackerBac - PvP Grubby vs Naniwa - PvP - Cointoss round Naniwa vs Socke - PvP (technically players played offrace but we could have had PvP) Socke vs Sase - PvP - Cointoss round And now Socke facing 2 zergs Final Socke vs Bischu - PvP
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Survive all the crazyness that is coinflipping just to lose from maps has to be a bit frusterating
Safe to say that everybody would do that... why not choose the maps you have the best chances at? Its more for the tournament organization to get a balanced map pool.
And yes, I did feel for nerchio for beeing unlucky with maps and positions, but I dont think you can blame Socke for that. It is not like Socke played bad or anything.
Yea, you can't blame Socke (If you noticed I said play to win at the end). They should have definately picked MLG Meta or whatever with the no close positions. In a tournament that is somewhat decided by coin flips, can't expect perfection:-P
On March 30 2011 05:11 FarbrorAbavna wrote: nerchio embarassing himself as usual, too much whine not enough skill
Socke picked Delta Quadrant against every Zerg player and then got close positions on Meta, nothing embarassing about showing your frusteration. I am more ashamed of Socke for actually picking Delta Quadrant every PvZ. Play to win I guess.
Wait, you are saying you would not pick maps that favor you and risk the prize money after making it to the semifinals and purposefully handicap yourself? That comes off as a rather petty gripe and that you are just trying to stir up controversy were none should be involved.
You got issues
I have issues for pointing out the obivous? Your point in inital post criticized Socke for not purposefully handcapping himself. "Play to win, I guess" certainly does not come across as "Not blaming Socke". Which would explain why you got ~4 responses in minutes after you posted that rediculous statement.
You are from the US accoding your tag. I am sure you have heard this quote from Herman Edwards:
On a related note: Man, the Dreamhack website has to be the shittiest designed website ever. Can't find anything at all. Under the tournament page it says that streams and casters will be announced at a later stage :s And when i finally found the stream it was by clicking on a link called "Live from Dreamhack Winter 2010" >_< And then I couldn't get it working. Just watching it on TL now...
On March 30 2011 05:50 Vorenius wrote: What's the score currently?
On a related note: Man, the Dreamhack website has to be the shittiest designed website ever. Can't find anything at all. Under the tournament page it says that streams and casters will be announced at a later stage :s And when i finally found the stream it was by clicking on a link called "Live from Dreamhack Winter 2010" >_< And then I couldn't get it working. Just watching it on TL now...
Ya I agree... maybe I missed it both times I checked, but I have not been able to find a bracket (even if it weren't updated) just so I can at least see who is in it. I'm not saying there isn't one... but it's pretty difficult for me to find. Then again, it's probably in an obvious spot. :-/
On March 30 2011 05:50 Vorenius wrote: What's the score currently?
On a related note: Man, the Dreamhack website has to be the shittiest designed website ever. Can't find anything at all. Under the tournament page it says that streams and casters will be announced at a later stage :s And when i finally found the stream it was by clicking on a link called "Live from Dreamhack Winter 2010" >_< And then I couldn't get it working. Just watching it on TL now...
Ya I agree... maybe I missed it both times I checked, but I have not been able to find a bracket (even if it weren't updated) just so I can at least see who is in it. I'm not saying there isn't one... but it's pretty difficult for me to find. Then again, it's probably in an obvious spot. :-/
check out "Epic Fail Of The Week - March 18th 2009 " on youtube for some 2gd/Zalmah hilarity. Just awesome to see him in SC2, EU desperately needs a solid top-notch commentator for their events - put him in a SC2 bootcamp and he's the one.
e. I totally agree that 2gd should cast more Starcraft. Even though his game knowledge is pretty poor, he totally allows dApollo handle the analysis. Kinda reminds me of djWheat, a very professional caster, but also much funnier.
Ironically Socke was the one of the players knocking Bischu out in the coinflip at Dreamhack Winter, (Even though Bischu beat him 1-0 in the group and 1-0 in the tiebreak) poor Bischu .
Well hey, at least they're able to laugh at themselves a little bit about it? Good for Bischu though to get compensated a bit for getting screwed by the coin flip. Pressure's on to perform in the finals though.
lol, Socke is one hella Swede tosser. Not only did he beat Bischu at DreamHack, but follows it up by tossing better than two Swedish opponents in todays tourney, SaSe and Forsen.
EPT![[image loading]](http://www.dreamhack.se/DHS11/files/2011/03/cointoss_400_w410_h200.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/5725/goodyseal.png)
