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On March 05 2011 17:31 bokeevboke wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 17:22 dunc wrote:On March 05 2011 17:21 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:16 Figgy wrote:
No one is saying Idra is a bad player. He just isn't as good as the other Code S mainly thanks to his insanely predicable playstyle and unwillingness to react to his opponents. And Jinro is definitely a step above. IdrA is easily top 8 in Code S. I consider him better than Jinro, eventhough Jinro had better results. Which I think is due to bad maps. Even on good maps IdrA can't beat Jinro. If you mean Jinro vs IdrA series in GSL4. That was the time when terrans started exploiting 2rax aggression and zergs were still figuring out how to counter it. Other than that I don't remember any series when they played each other. I respect Jinro for his efforts and achievements. But IdrA is still better. If you read Jinro's interview after he lost to HongUn, he said that he would definitely lose if Protoss plays phoenix. IdrA would be prepared for that, he is kinda more professional than Jinro.
its ridiculous to say idra>jinro.
last 3 encounters.
jinro beat him on jungle basin in group stages(dosent count for much)
jinro beat him in the ro8.
jinro beat him in the clash of the titans show match.
jinro also has reached the ro4 twice while the farthest idra has gotten is ro8.
pretty soon huk will be better than idra. huk works his butt off and idra is returning to america.
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I agree with above. Some may argue that they need to play more to be able to say who's the better playing. But looking at the results saying Idra>Jinro is absurd.
Then Jinro>Idra would be alot more likely.
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On March 06 2011 01:39 beat farm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 17:31 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:22 dunc wrote:On March 05 2011 17:21 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:16 Figgy wrote:
No one is saying Idra is a bad player. He just isn't as good as the other Code S mainly thanks to his insanely predicable playstyle and unwillingness to react to his opponents. And Jinro is definitely a step above. IdrA is easily top 8 in Code S. I consider him better than Jinro, eventhough Jinro had better results. Which I think is due to bad maps. Even on good maps IdrA can't beat Jinro. If you mean Jinro vs IdrA series in GSL4. That was the time when terrans started exploiting 2rax aggression and zergs were still figuring out how to counter it. Other than that I don't remember any series when they played each other. I respect Jinro for his efforts and achievements. But IdrA is still better. If you read Jinro's interview after he lost to HongUn, he said that he would definitely lose if Protoss plays phoenix. IdrA would be prepared for that, he is kinda more professional than Jinro. its ridiculous to say idra>jinro. last 3 encounters. jinro beat him on jungle basin in group stages(dosent count for much) jinro beat him in the ro8. jinro beat him in the clash of the titans show match. jinro also has reached the ro4 twice while the farthest idra has gotten is ro8. pretty soon huk will be better than idra. huk works his butt off and idra is returning to america.
Agree with this guy, there's no way in hell idra>jinro right now. Jinro's playstyle is just better, his decision making is better, his micro is better, his builds are better, even his in-game character is better, considering he doesn't give up games in which he still has chances. Idra's only advantage is having slightly better mechanics, and that in no way makes up for the many points in which jinro plays better than idra.
Idra is the best US player for sure, but really, he's nowhere near jinro in terms of skill, and as said before, idra's weakest point is his insanely rigid play, he's been figured out by everyone. Unlike say, july, who has shown how real aggression can win games, and at the same time shown some really awesome macro in other matches, or fruitdealer, who doesn't have the best results, but is impossible to figure out since he does crazy stuff every game. Idra hasn't even evolved into the drop play we've been seeing in PvZ from many of the best zergs. Compare this to jinro, who practically spearheaded mech play against protoss in the GSL.
Jinro is just better than idra.
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A few months ago saying IdrA > Jinro would be somewhat true, however IdrA only practices with Ret, other than that all his practice comes from ladder, while Jinro can practice specific builds against top tier oGs players. I think that has given Jinro so much better practice that he is definately better than idra now. that being said imagine if idra was in oGs or another team out there, he would probably edge out jinro seeing that he can give him good games already with just ladder practice. Oh well, hopefully he doesn't do bad now that he is coming back to the US.
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1 Mvp IM 7000
2 MarineKing Prime 4000
3 NesTea IM 2500
3 Jinro Liquid 2500
5 IdrA EG 1500
Since Jinro passed the Ro32, it means he is now ranked higher than every zerg player.
I don't see why you are even comparing the two, they don't play the same race.
If it's the "who da best foreigner", if Jinro is your choice based on results, then there can be absolutely no argument that mvp and mkp are the best koreans based on win rates.
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I don't think anyone would argue with that top 3 though, just as no one in their right mind would argue who is better between Jinro and Idra.
Results speak, mouthing off other players doesn't.
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Zerg really has 0 chance at the highest level.. when will blizz finally see that?
Just July left now, who had a bit luck (vs mvp for example) and i doubt that he wins next roundvs nada.
gl to him anyways.
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On March 05 2011 20:10 Odoakar wrote:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games, as this is the first GSL where I've watched only a few of games. It's the worst GSL ever because I really don't give a flying fuck about Lyn and San and players like them. They have no backstory, no history, nothing for a viewer to actually connect with them. This has been beaten to death, and incontrol on SotG often talks about that.
Tester for example has a history, he was here at the start of beta, viewers could grow fond of him and his play style and would like to see him winning. When you have some unknowns or players who month ago cannon blocked his own nexus winning...I really have no will to watch that.
This is probably the most stupid thing I've read today. Especially since both the players you listed as having no back story definitely has one. Lyn is an incredible wc3 player and San has been around since GSL season 1.
I think its retarded that you expect to see the same players every single tournament. New players evolve and takes the game further with fresh ideas and strategies. Whining about players not having a back story is completely retarded in this situation because every single one who plays in code S has been around for months, i,e they have a fucking back story.
Just because you dont like certain players and dont think they should be in code S it doesnt mean they shouldnt be. I was not a huge fan of San before this season and I am still not a fan, but you cant deny that he has shown some pretty good games so far this season. Of course I am sad that my favorites are knocked out already, but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy the games.
Code A for example has been better than code S this season because the big favorites have been playing terribly. MVP, Nestea etc all played far below their potential and I am pretty excited seeing these lesser known players CREATE THEIR BACK STORY SO WHINY MORONS LIKE YOURSELF CAN APPRECIATE GOOD GAMES.
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just watched all the games, tester really disappointed me, i was never confident in him in sc2, he just does not bring something special, he is attacking when its not smart to attack, and that really frustrates...
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On March 05 2011 23:47 Shockk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 20:10 Odoakar wrote:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games, as this is the first GSL where I've watched only a few of games. It's the worst GSL ever because I really don't give a flying fuck about Lyn and San and players like them. They have no backstory, no history, nothing for a viewer to actually connect with them. This has been beaten to death, and incontrol on SotG often talks about that.
Tester for example has a history, he was here at the start of beta, viewers could grow fond of him and his play style and would like to see him winning. When you have some unknowns or players who month ago cannon blocked his own nexus winning...I really have no will to watch that. So you'd rather watch veteran (beta) players fail to adapt to new styles (and losing in early tournament stages) than previously unknown guys greatly improving and showing the highest quality of play of all GLS seasons so far? If that's your taste, go ahead, enjoy mediocre play and miss out on a lot of actually good games. If you're just in it for the "history" or "back story" and not for the quality of the games, I'm sure there's a lot of content with mucher lower quality but more drama and chitchat available for you. No need to complain about the GSL then.
On top of that, this GSL is ALL drama. This GSL will BE the backstory to future GSLs.
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Bad day for me as a fanboy. All matches go against the ones I'm rooting for. Sad T_T
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On March 06 2011 02:56 Turgid wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 23:47 Shockk wrote:On March 05 2011 20:10 Odoakar wrote:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games, as this is the first GSL where I've watched only a few of games. It's the worst GSL ever because I really don't give a flying fuck about Lyn and San and players like them. They have no backstory, no history, nothing for a viewer to actually connect with them. This has been beaten to death, and incontrol on SotG often talks about that.
Tester for example has a history, he was here at the start of beta, viewers could grow fond of him and his play style and would like to see him winning. When you have some unknowns or players who month ago cannon blocked his own nexus winning...I really have no will to watch that. So you'd rather watch veteran (beta) players fail to adapt to new styles (and losing in early tournament stages) than previously unknown guys greatly improving and showing the highest quality of play of all GLS seasons so far? If that's your taste, go ahead, enjoy mediocre play and miss out on a lot of actually good games. If you're just in it for the "history" or "back story" and not for the quality of the games, I'm sure there's a lot of content with mucher lower quality but more drama and chitchat available for you. No need to complain about the GSL then. On top of that, this GSL is ALL drama. This GSL will BE the backstory to future GSLs.
True, but I can't help but share the sentiment of shockk's post not about the stupid backstory, but just looking at the game quality. It's not like I'm against new players coming out from Code A and dominating, it's that I'd like to see some fantastic games - and with the exception of San v TheWinD in game 3, ALL the games today sucked either extremely hard or were mediocre at best...since when should mediocre or terrible play (i.e. sC) get to be rewarded with a round of 8 finish?
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On March 06 2011 02:33 Torumfroll wrote:Show nested quote +On March 05 2011 20:10 Odoakar wrote:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games, as this is the first GSL where I've watched only a few of games. It's the worst GSL ever because I really don't give a flying fuck about Lyn and San and players like them. They have no backstory, no history, nothing for a viewer to actually connect with them. This has been beaten to death, and incontrol on SotG often talks about that.
Tester for example has a history, he was here at the start of beta, viewers could grow fond of him and his play style and would like to see him winning. When you have some unknowns or players who month ago cannon blocked his own nexus winning...I really have no will to watch that. This is probably the most stupid thing I've read today. Especially since both the players you listed as having no back story definitely has one. Lyn is an incredible wc3 player and San has been around since GSL season 1. I think its retarded that you expect to see the same players every single tournament. New players evolve and takes the game further with fresh ideas and strategies. Whining about players not having a back story is completely retarded in this situation because every single one who plays in code S has been around for months, i,e they have a fucking back story. Just because you dont like certain players and dont think they should be in code S it doesnt mean they shouldnt be. I was not a huge fan of San before this season and I am still not a fan, but you cant deny that he has shown some pretty good games so far this season. Of course I am sad that my favorites are knocked out already, but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy the games. Code A for example has been better than code S this season because the big favorites have been playing terribly. MVP, Nestea etc all played far below their potential and I am pretty excited seeing these lesser known players CREATE THEIR BACK STORY SO WHINY MORONS LIKE YOURSELF CAN APPRECIATE GOOD GAMES.
LoL? You 're such a whiny bastard. Lyn has a back story sure, but I'm not interested in seeing him playing. In WC3 he was making the same units each map, each game, over and over... Now he plays Terran and I'm pretty sure he will never be a top dog, that's just how he plays the game only to win and such (he said it himself in an interview). SanZenith LOL he have NO DAMN background just like anypro, yes they are there since the begining, but they are B-teamer low tier code A & code S players. Everybody out there who saw them play think they should be in code A. Sadly SC2 is so instable at the moment that you see previous GSL winner getting destroyed but random cheese.
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Nestea didn't get cheesed out by the way, he just got outplayed.
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Hope Tester gets his stuff together again, i liked his play and now its almost painful to watch in Code S. 
Also lol at scfou having a sip of coke after the first match... and going UGH bleurgh! xD product placement, ho!
oh my god the second game is even more ... not enjoyable.
Marine SCV attack with no stim after 9 mins.
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On March 06 2011 02:06 mordk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 01:39 beat farm wrote:On March 05 2011 17:31 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:22 dunc wrote:On March 05 2011 17:21 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:16 Figgy wrote:
No one is saying Idra is a bad player. He just isn't as good as the other Code S mainly thanks to his insanely predicable playstyle and unwillingness to react to his opponents. And Jinro is definitely a step above. IdrA is easily top 8 in Code S. I consider him better than Jinro, eventhough Jinro had better results. Which I think is due to bad maps. Even on good maps IdrA can't beat Jinro. If you mean Jinro vs IdrA series in GSL4. That was the time when terrans started exploiting 2rax aggression and zergs were still figuring out how to counter it. Other than that I don't remember any series when they played each other. I respect Jinro for his efforts and achievements. But IdrA is still better. If you read Jinro's interview after he lost to HongUn, he said that he would definitely lose if Protoss plays phoenix. IdrA would be prepared for that, he is kinda more professional than Jinro. its ridiculous to say idra>jinro. last 3 encounters. jinro beat him on jungle basin in group stages(dosent count for much) jinro beat him in the ro8. jinro beat him in the clash of the titans show match. jinro also has reached the ro4 twice while the farthest idra has gotten is ro8. pretty soon huk will be better than idra. huk works his butt off and idra is returning to america. Agree with this guy, there's no way in hell idra>jinro right now. Jinro's playstyle is just better, his decision making is better, his micro is better, his builds are better, even his in-game character is better, considering he doesn't give up games in which he still has chances. Idra's only advantage is having slightly better mechanics, and that in no way makes up for the many points in which jinro plays better than idra. Idra is the best US player for sure, but really, he's nowhere near jinro in terms of skill, and as said before, idra's weakest point is his insanely rigid play, he's been figured out by everyone. Unlike say, july, who has shown how real aggression can win games, and at the same time shown some really awesome macro in other matches, or fruitdealer, who doesn't have the best results, but is impossible to figure out since he does crazy stuff every game. Idra hasn't even evolved into the drop play we've been seeing in PvZ from many of the best zergs. Compare this to jinro, who practically spearheaded mech play against protoss in the GSL. Jinro is just better than idra.
you are very very wrong in a lot of different ways. jinro is not as good as you, or a bunch of other people make out. dont get me wrong, jinro is very good but he makes a lot of fundamental errors that idra just wouldnt. things like having 90+ scvs vs select, his games vs marinekingprime, not saturating his bases properly. better micro? did you see him vs select? select's micro is nothing special but he has way better micro than jinro. his decision making is not amazing either as highlighted vs mkp. alot of jinro's success is because of his ability to come up with good builds that people havent played against very often (which is partly due to how many early game options terran has), hes not actually that good as shown vs hongunprime where he was shown up when he was trying to play standard.
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On March 06 2011 03:37 imbs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 02:06 mordk wrote:On March 06 2011 01:39 beat farm wrote:On March 05 2011 17:31 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:22 dunc wrote:On March 05 2011 17:21 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:16 Figgy wrote:
No one is saying Idra is a bad player. He just isn't as good as the other Code S mainly thanks to his insanely predicable playstyle and unwillingness to react to his opponents. And Jinro is definitely a step above. IdrA is easily top 8 in Code S. I consider him better than Jinro, eventhough Jinro had better results. Which I think is due to bad maps. Even on good maps IdrA can't beat Jinro. If you mean Jinro vs IdrA series in GSL4. That was the time when terrans started exploiting 2rax aggression and zergs were still figuring out how to counter it. Other than that I don't remember any series when they played each other. I respect Jinro for his efforts and achievements. But IdrA is still better. If you read Jinro's interview after he lost to HongUn, he said that he would definitely lose if Protoss plays phoenix. IdrA would be prepared for that, he is kinda more professional than Jinro. its ridiculous to say idra>jinro. last 3 encounters. jinro beat him on jungle basin in group stages(dosent count for much) jinro beat him in the ro8. jinro beat him in the clash of the titans show match. jinro also has reached the ro4 twice while the farthest idra has gotten is ro8. pretty soon huk will be better than idra. huk works his butt off and idra is returning to america. Agree with this guy, there's no way in hell idra>jinro right now. Jinro's playstyle is just better, his decision making is better, his micro is better, his builds are better, even his in-game character is better, considering he doesn't give up games in which he still has chances. Idra's only advantage is having slightly better mechanics, and that in no way makes up for the many points in which jinro plays better than idra. Idra is the best US player for sure, but really, he's nowhere near jinro in terms of skill, and as said before, idra's weakest point is his insanely rigid play, he's been figured out by everyone. Unlike say, july, who has shown how real aggression can win games, and at the same time shown some really awesome macro in other matches, or fruitdealer, who doesn't have the best results, but is impossible to figure out since he does crazy stuff every game. Idra hasn't even evolved into the drop play we've been seeing in PvZ from many of the best zergs. Compare this to jinro, who practically spearheaded mech play against protoss in the GSL. Jinro is just better than idra. you are very very wrong in a lot of different ways. jinro is not as good as you, or a bunch of other people make out. dont get me wrong, jinro is very good but he makes a lot of fundamental errors that idra just wouldnt. things like having 90+ scvs vs select, his games vs marinekingprime, not saturating his bases properly. better micro? did you see him vs select? select's micro is nothing special but he has way better micro than jinro. his decision making is not amazing either as highlighted vs mkp. alot of jinro's success is because of his ability to come up with good builds that people havent played against very often (which is partly due to how many early game options terran has), hes not actually that good as shown vs hongunprime where he was shown up when he was trying to play standard.
I agree and disagree. I think TL members in general are way to overhyped by TL. Jinro is probably the best foreigner right now, but I don't think it's correct to say he's on the level of some of the elite korean terrans.
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Anypro on his way to tha top. And a 50% winrate.
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On March 06 2011 03:37 imbs wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 02:06 mordk wrote:On March 06 2011 01:39 beat farm wrote:On March 05 2011 17:31 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:22 dunc wrote:On March 05 2011 17:21 bokeevboke wrote:On March 05 2011 17:16 Figgy wrote:
No one is saying Idra is a bad player. He just isn't as good as the other Code S mainly thanks to his insanely predicable playstyle and unwillingness to react to his opponents. And Jinro is definitely a step above. IdrA is easily top 8 in Code S. I consider him better than Jinro, eventhough Jinro had better results. Which I think is due to bad maps. Even on good maps IdrA can't beat Jinro. If you mean Jinro vs IdrA series in GSL4. That was the time when terrans started exploiting 2rax aggression and zergs were still figuring out how to counter it. Other than that I don't remember any series when they played each other. I respect Jinro for his efforts and achievements. But IdrA is still better. If you read Jinro's interview after he lost to HongUn, he said that he would definitely lose if Protoss plays phoenix. IdrA would be prepared for that, he is kinda more professional than Jinro. its ridiculous to say idra>jinro. last 3 encounters. jinro beat him on jungle basin in group stages(dosent count for much) jinro beat him in the ro8. jinro beat him in the clash of the titans show match. jinro also has reached the ro4 twice while the farthest idra has gotten is ro8. pretty soon huk will be better than idra. huk works his butt off and idra is returning to america. Agree with this guy, there's no way in hell idra>jinro right now. Jinro's playstyle is just better, his decision making is better, his micro is better, his builds are better, even his in-game character is better, considering he doesn't give up games in which he still has chances. Idra's only advantage is having slightly better mechanics, and that in no way makes up for the many points in which jinro plays better than idra. Idra is the best US player for sure, but really, he's nowhere near jinro in terms of skill, and as said before, idra's weakest point is his insanely rigid play, he's been figured out by everyone. Unlike say, july, who has shown how real aggression can win games, and at the same time shown some really awesome macro in other matches, or fruitdealer, who doesn't have the best results, but is impossible to figure out since he does crazy stuff every game. Idra hasn't even evolved into the drop play we've been seeing in PvZ from many of the best zergs. Compare this to jinro, who practically spearheaded mech play against protoss in the GSL. Jinro is just better than idra. you are very very wrong in a lot of different ways. jinro is not as good as you, or a bunch of other people make out. dont get me wrong, jinro is very good but he makes a lot of fundamental errors that idra just wouldnt. things like having 90+ scvs vs select, his games vs marinekingprime, not saturating his bases properly. better micro? did you see him vs select? select's micro is nothing special but he has way better micro than jinro. his decision making is not amazing either as highlighted vs mkp. alot of jinro's success is because of his ability to come up with good builds that people havent played against very often (which is partly due to how many early game options terran has), hes not actually that good as shown vs hongunprime where he was shown up when he was trying to play standard.
Pretty sure the game against SeleCt was played at 200+ ping for Jinro. Of course his micro would suck ass. How about you stop cherry picking games? I could name a number of games where IdrA played like absolute garbage as well, but I don't think those games are indicative of IdrA's overall skill level either. I understand that you're trying to defend against IdrA-bashing, but I think there's a solid case for either player being slightly better right now.
On the other hand...your comment about IdrA's "late game macromanagement" (i.e. mechanics) being better than anyone else on the planet is laughable. Even in SC2, as shallow as this game is, there are better (Nestea, NaDa, MVP, etc). In BW, there are probably 50+ Koreans who would wipe the floor with IdrA in mechanics, and hundreds more who are as good or slightly better.
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On March 06 2011 03:10 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2011 02:33 Torumfroll wrote:On March 05 2011 20:10 Odoakar wrote:
I'm not talking about the quality of the games, as this is the first GSL where I've watched only a few of games. It's the worst GSL ever because I really don't give a flying fuck about Lyn and San and players like them. They have no backstory, no history, nothing for a viewer to actually connect with them. This has been beaten to death, and incontrol on SotG often talks about that.
Tester for example has a history, he was here at the start of beta, viewers could grow fond of him and his play style and would like to see him winning. When you have some unknowns or players who month ago cannon blocked his own nexus winning...I really have no will to watch that. This is probably the most stupid thing I've read today. Especially since both the players you listed as having no back story definitely has one. Lyn is an incredible wc3 player and San has been around since GSL season 1. I think its retarded that you expect to see the same players every single tournament. New players evolve and takes the game further with fresh ideas and strategies. Whining about players not having a back story is completely retarded in this situation because every single one who plays in code S has been around for months, i,e they have a fucking back story. Just because you dont like certain players and dont think they should be in code S it doesnt mean they shouldnt be. I was not a huge fan of San before this season and I am still not a fan, but you cant deny that he has shown some pretty good games so far this season. Of course I am sad that my favorites are knocked out already, but that doesnt mean I dont enjoy the games. Code A for example has been better than code S this season because the big favorites have been playing terribly. MVP, Nestea etc all played far below their potential and I am pretty excited seeing these lesser known players CREATE THEIR BACK STORY SO WHINY MORONS LIKE YOURSELF CAN APPRECIATE GOOD GAMES. LoL? You 're such a whiny bastard. Lyn has a back story sure, but I'm not interested in seeing him playing. In WC3 he was making the same units each map, each game, over and over... Now he plays Terran and I'm pretty sure he will never be a top dog, that's just how he plays the game only to win and such (he said it himself in an interview). SanZenith LOL he have NO DAMN background just like anypro, yes they are there since the begining, but they are B-teamer low tier code A & code S players. Everybody out there who saw them play think they should be in code A. Sadly SC2 is so instable at the moment that you see previous GSL winner getting destroyed but random cheese.
What part of my post was whining?
Yes SC2 is hard to stay consistent in because so much can change very quickly and some of the strategies are incredibly difficult to stop, and thats because the game is still young. I dont want to see the same people who started out in the beta to remain the best of the best forever. I want to see the game progress further and I want to see new faces with the potential to become great players.
GSL code S/A is on its SECOND season at the moment. Its gonna take several seasons more until the stronger players are the ones remaining and having equally skilled players competing to show us great games.
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EPT
