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On January 28 2011 14:01 RHMVNovus wrote:
Players like LiveForever are harming eSports far more than Tastosis. Having players of clearly inferior talent abusing maps and the races as they do kills any entertainment value. Build Order losses are boring, abusive strats that require more skill to hold off than execute are boring, and maps that encourage these abusive strats are also boring.
He didn't do bunker rush, he didn't do a marine/scv-all in and didn't turtle up to prevent his opponent from getting a third base (which is usually the case on JB). All he did was make a bunch of units and attack at the 10 minute mark.
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On January 28 2011 19:44 Ysellian wrote:Show nested quote +On January 28 2011 14:01 RHMVNovus wrote:
Players like LiveForever are harming eSports far more than Tastosis. Having players of clearly inferior talent abusing maps and the races as they do kills any entertainment value. Build Order losses are boring, abusive strats that require more skill to hold off than execute are boring, and maps that encourage these abusive strats are also boring. He didn't do bunker rush, he didn't do a marine/scv-all in and didn't turtle up to prevent his opponent from getting a third base (which is usually the case on JB). All he did was make a bunch of units and attack at the 10 minute mark.
I agree, That was pretty much Leenock's poor decision makings skill/ misinformation that led to his defeat, I mean yes build order losses are some times disappointing but that's kind of like, My opponent is going to Cruiser rush, so I won't attack him until he has 3 cruisers out because it'll result in a build order loss
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Even though I prefer Leenock as a player, he 100% deserved to lose.
In the second game, and ESPECIALLY the third, Leenock played as if he was expecting LiveForever would never attack ever. He has less than a dozen zerglings at the ten minute mark, and didn't even have a baneling nest. It's exactly the same as how Ret played: He decided he didn't need any units at all and was surprised that his opponent built dudes.
As for Artosis....I do believe in calling out bad play, but Artosis is kind of a dick when there's a player he doesn't like. It's not even "bias", he's just an asshole to these guys.
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Who cares if they're being assholes.. it's funny. Sometimes you people sound like you're a bunch of soccer moms.
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I pay for the English stream (which also goes to thier payroll) fully expecting good informative analysis and understanding of the game (which they actuall do have)
If I want to watch assholes name-calling I can open Youtube anytime for free.
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There isn't much to analyse about a horrible player except how horrible he is.
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On January 28 2011 15:01 Piledriver wrote:
The zerg bias in TL is MIND BOGGLING.
Leenock played like a scrub and lost. I know of gold level zergs who would have 3x more units at the 10 minute mark.
LiveForever didnt do anything special, hell he didnt even cheese or all-in or 2 rax. He played a straight up game and pushed at the 10 MINUTE MARK. Leenock was busy making drones this entire time and didnt even bother scouting. More and more I feel as though I should not take any zerg's opinion seriously, even in the slightest manner. Their definition of a straight up game = DONT PUSH TILL 15 MINUTES OR YOU CHEESE KKTHXBAI.
Agreed.....but I guess some of it stems from the fact that Zergs are knocked out too early and often in the GSL's....I guess some of it natually transfers over to other players even if it;s not necessarily true.
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If people look back during the actual "live" part of the thread, some of us were going nuts about what Leenock was not doing. Which was playing like he wasn't still in a game. Even if he'd done his DQ build again... he'd have won. What he did in games 2 & 3 made no sense. You don't make an evolution chamber over a Baneling Nest against T, unless you've already got a bunch of Roaches out and are going for a Ling + Roach bust (which he should have).
He played... like a 16 year old. LiveForever isn't a top 100 player over there. But Leenock just didn't do a damn thing for 8 of the 10 minutes of 2 successive games. He threw away his spot in Code S. It's really frustrating. He just acted like it was over already. It didn't make any sense.
That's why they were hard on LiveForever. He's only still in Code S because Leenock threw it all away. That's just luck, not skill. Leenock should have destroyed him. But if your opponent is just going to give you money, you take it. And if you saw LiveForever's Code S games, you knew why they were calling him a "jobber", which is exactly what happened in Code S.
And they weren't that bad on him. If you watch Game 1 again, what he was doing didn't make any sense. He played better in Games 2 & 3, but still, if Leenock played at least a little standard, he'd have rolled over him. Was as simple as that. It was just a horrible thing to watch a solid player just throw it all away to a far worse opponent.
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I came to this thread after watching the LiveForever games to have some fun, and what I found were mile long posts about Tastosis' commentary... :s
I'd only say i had SO much fun watching these games. I was laughing my ass off both in game 1 and especially game 3 when LiveForever won. And tastosis' commentary helped with that a lot, it was hilarious. They should continue in the same manner, as that is why I watch GSL, to be entertained, and they prove to be a 'great success' at doing that.
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EPT
