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[GSL] S3 Qualifiers D2 - Page 239

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Tournaments
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humblegar
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Norway883 Posts
November 16 2010 11:16 GMT
#4761
On November 16 2010 19:34 EGalex wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 19:20 Hot_Bid wrote:
On November 16 2010 18:45 EGalex wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
Hey Everyone,

This is my first post on TL - long time reader, though (I don't usually participate on forums). For those of you who don't know me (probably, erm, every one of you), I'm the owner of Evil Geniuses... for those of you who watched the EG Masters' Cup stream so brilliantly produced by EG.SirScoots, I was "That Guy Behind The Broadcast Desk Who Didn't Want To Be On Cam." I've been involved in pro gaming for a long time now, and I decided to register my account on TL just now because I all of a sudden find this thread very problematic.

As everyone here is probably aware, TL is a juggernaut SC entity in eSports, and "wears two hats," so to say, as both a professional team and a coverage website. Some would argue that its influence as a coverage website and community stretches further than the influence of its pro players. In any case, obviously the two identities are intertwined and overlap to a certain extent.

Moving on (finally) to my point: as a very important, influential coverage hub focusing on what is currently pro gaming's most prevalent community, you can't be censoring players' names. I don't want to jump the gun and start waving around the "journalistic integrity" card prematurely, but I think it's pretty significant. Sure, TL isn't ESPN (yet), and sure, this is a forum-embedded community news piece updated by a very dedicated TL community member (for which I am grateful), but those - to me - are no excuse for throwing high standards of unbiased journalism to the side. It doesn't matter whether this is a forum post or a front-page news piece: you can't be censoring players' names or clan names just because they beat a community favorite.

Unfortunately, this pattern isn't necessarily restricted to this particular thread. There is a very minor (albeit certainly noticeable) trend on TL of posters only ensuring that Liquid pro players have their clan name mentioned - I.E. HuK is always referred to in TL coverage as Liquid`HuK, whereas SeleCt, for example, has always been just "SeleCt" and never "Dignitas.SeleCt" (at least as far as I've seen). This seems to vary based on the player and the community's familiarity with said player - IdrA, for example, is always referred to be the TL coverage folks as "EGIdrA" (we at EG are thankful for this) - but it is certainly a consistent trend. TL players are always referred to as TL players, but players from other pro teams don't necessarily always have their team name attached to their alias.

This is, of course, certainly *not* a case of intentional bias, and I'm not insinuating that it is in any way (I recently met Nazgul and several other TL executives at Blizzcon, and they held themselves with the utmost integrity and professionalism). At the end of the day, like many in this thread have pointed out, this is TL's home territory, and those covering competitions here ensure, first and foremost, that they point out what's going on with TL pro players. However, with that being said, sometimes intent is irrelevant (or close to it) when discussing matters of this matter - I.E., is neglecting to put in the care/effort to refer to SeleCt (for example) as Dignitas.SeleCt really any better than intentionally leaving out the team name? Maybe marginally better... but maybe not at all.

To summarize this already too-long post, I think it's really important for everyone in this community to remember that TL, while still a team website, is definitively the SC2 coverage hub of the English-speaking world. And any kind of journalistic bias here, whether intentional or unintentional, whether major or extremely minor (as minor as censoring a player's name because he beat HuK today), whether coming from an official TL coverage staff member or a dedicated community member not officially affiliated with TL, is extremely, extremely problematic. With this website getting the amount of traffic and attention that it does get (and should get), the coverage here needs to be held to high standards of journalistic integrity.

And at the end of the day, sure, this is TL's home base, and favoring TL's pro players in coverage posts - if it is desired to do so - may be TL's right... but doing something just because you have the power to ("just because you can") is really a very poor justification for doing anything.

(Thanks to those of you who actually read all of this)

-A

Edit: In the time it took me to write all of this, the censorship was removed. I think the points are still valid, though .

Ultimately, this was a small joke that I feel was blown out of proportion. I confess I'm an ESPORTS fan at heart. I felt it was funny for the 10-15 minutes it was live and brought a bit of personality to my cheering in this event, I never intended it to negatively reflect on TL's reputation or journalistic integrity. Maybe some saw it as a bad joke.

However, I feel it's critical to TL's personality that it's staff (especially it's volunteer staff) keep it's quirks and personality. We have a site culture here and it's one where "administrators" can be an ordinary fan along with everyone else. That is what makes TL fun for me and I feel it'd greatly hurt everyone's experience here if we cannot make a 10 minute joke about someone beating one of our favorite players. I feel this is a "no harm no foul" situation and I don't believe there is a slippery slope argument leading to us censoring out Clide's clantag because he beat Ret in the GSL Finals or something.

If you take a look at every single news post in the past six months, we've made it a point to include every single clan tag (look at the GSL coverage). Do we miss some? Sure. But every site misses clan tags sometimes -- TL and EG's sites both do. If there is an issue with not including enough clan tags, for example Dignitas for Select, then we can certainly fix that. I just don't see the issue here because a) motbob is not official TL staff at the time of this thread creation, and b) even Select himself doesn't use his Dignitas tag on all Bnet servers.

If we miss mentioning a team it's certainly not any sort of intentional malice aimed at promoting Liquid over other teams, it's just an accidental oversight. Especially when most thread OPs are created by users who are understandably more familiar with Liquid players than any other team. If you feel EG (or any team) is being overlooked, feel free to shoot us a PM and we can fix that right away.

Thanks for your feedback.


Thanks for the reply. I agree, you guys are 100% accurate with clan tags for GSL competitions, but I think if you take a look back through your history of North American competitions (and I use the word "your" liberally here, as I'm not sure in retrospect if those posts were done by official TL folks, or just dedicated community members) such as MLG events, you'll see that a ton of clan tags are missing.

Anyway, I'll shoot you a PM and continue the conversation there.

Also, thanks to everyone who replied (favorably and unfavorably). This'll be my last post, but I wanted to make one point before I go.

A lot of you guys are saying that my criticisms are invalid because so much of TL's coverage (this thread, for example) is community-based and generated by community members who aren't officially part of TL. This is not a valid counterpoint to my arguments - but it is, however, a very important observation about the nature of "coverage" and "news" on TL. We're now in an era of journalism and reporting in which a piece doesn't have to be "official" to be coverage. So, while some of you guys are essentially saying, "This isn't coverage - it's a forum thread and therefore you're wrong," I'd make the simple point: the two are not mutually exclusive anymore. It's both a forum thread and a coverage piece. I'd like to think that anyone in this community with enough dedication and passion to contribute to it via doing this kind of forum-based coverage would also apply that kind of dedication and passion to their approach to said community-based journalism.


What do you think of Tasteless clear lack of bias regarding EG when casting for gomtv?
Madder
Profile Joined February 2010
Australia427 Posts
November 16 2010 11:16 GMT
#4762
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Does anyone know the stance of liquid towards the new rumored starcraft2 KESPA? Seeing as they've now got three players qualified to play in the GSL ro65, I think they should start considering integrating the team with the korean community. Or will they perhaps remain a sub-team of oGs?

Also...

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".





You might aswell have (hopefully that's correct, lol) pointed out his spelling mistake of "didn't" and his impropper grammar. xD

Anywho, it's awesome how a bunch of foreigners have qualified. ^^
Epithet
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States840 Posts
November 16 2010 11:16 GMT
#4763
Idra and ret? Nice. No cella?
YellOw, Reach, & Nal_Ra Hwaiting!!
Winters
Profile Joined September 2010
Spain53 Posts
November 16 2010 11:16 GMT
#4764
Yeah, cmon FruitDealer !!
For The Swarm!
myfriendspro
Profile Joined October 2010
United Kingdom51 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 11:18:45
November 16 2010 11:17 GMT
#4765
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:


Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".






Would have -> Would've -> would of

would've reeeally sounds like would of.

I dont even know if would've is a real word but its so widely used.

edit: man people post so fast -.-

on topic, although im disappointed huk didnt make it i would have been happy if someone had told me before hand 3/4 from liquid would make the cut.
Grumbels
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Netherlands7031 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 11:20:01
November 16 2010 11:18 GMT
#4766
On November 16 2010 20:16 maliceee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Does anyone know the stance of liquid towards the new rumored starcraft2 KESPA? Seeing as they've now got three players qualified to play in the GSL ro65, I think they should start considering integrating the team with the korean community. Or will they perhaps remain a sub-team of oGs?

Also...

On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".






When you speak it its easier? all languages have shit like that mister "Im so cool I get mad at grammar mistakes"

Did Lyn make it in?? tell me now, NOW


It's possibly the most annoying error to make though. Every time I notice it I'm too distracted to continue reading. When you write "would of" it stops meaning anything and becomes gibberish.
Well, now I tell you, I never seen good come o' goodness yet. Him as strikes first is my fancy; dead men don't bite; them's my views--amen, so be it.
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 11:18:39
November 16 2010 11:18 GMT
#4767
Boxer and Kyrix in the same group. I have a bad feeling about this.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Chesner
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Iceland817 Posts
November 16 2010 11:18 GMT
#4768
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Does anyone know the stance of liquid towards the new rumored starcraft2 KESPA? Seeing as they've now got three players qualified to play in the GSL ro65, I think they should start considering integrating the team with the korean community. Or will they perhaps remain a sub-team of oGs?

Also...

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".






This isn't just in English, its everywhere in the world. + Show Spoiler +
"ég hlakka/mér hlakkar" for example
Don't be hatin' yo.

Great to see 3/4 qualify for GSL3, so psyched to see Ret in that booth! :D

Zerg hwaitiiiing!
PENGUINS
Mascherano
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Argentina1726 Posts
November 16 2010 11:18 GMT
#4769
On November 16 2010 20:15 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Does anyone know the stance of liquid towards the new rumored starcraft2 KESPA? Seeing as they've now got three players qualified to play in the GSL ro65, I think they should start considering integrating the team with the korean community. Or will they perhaps remain a sub-team of oGs?

Also...

On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".






"of" and "have" are homonyms if you're speaking quickly enough.

Native Spanish is so much worse though, I've seen stuff like "kien" (quien) on my facebook.


It's the same really. It's just youngsters trying to shorten words. kien = quien , would be like you = u.
Bisu
andrewwiggin
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia435 Posts
November 16 2010 11:18 GMT
#4770

Man..

Protoss are dying like flies.

Out of the protoss who have qualified / are yet to qualify, who exactly is supposed to be our hero toss? =S
Holgerius
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Sweden16951 Posts
November 16 2010 11:19 GMT
#4771
On November 16 2010 20:09 Malinor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:02 ste0731 wrote:
On November 16 2010 20:02 Silentness wrote:
Do you have to announce what race you are when you pick random at the beginning of the game?

Or does the opponent have to scout your race?


Srsly?

What do you think... Scout


It's a legitimate question. You weren't even allowed to pick random in BW Korean pro-scene (not that it mattered much). Rules about random players are certainly not well known, since they barely exist.

BW players are allowed to play random, there are examples of games where players have played it. I think there's one with July where he gets T and does a kick-ass sunken break against like 7 sunkens. XD
I believe in the almighty Grötslev! -- I am never serious and you should never believe a thing I say. Including the previous sentence.
Harpwn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Australia253 Posts
November 16 2010 11:19 GMT
#4772
Knew ret would roll on through

wudda liked huk to get thru but oh wells

sad that lovedrop didnt make it! i want that kid to succeed! hope it doesnt put him off sc
jhNz
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Germany2762 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4773
oh noes huk
http://twitter.com/jhNz
Randomaccount#77123
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States5003 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4774
--- Nuked ---
Nazza
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Australia1654 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4775
On November 16 2010 20:18 andrewwiggin wrote:

Man..

Protoss are dying like flies.

Out of the protoss who have qualified / are yet to qualify, who exactly is supposed to be our hero toss? =S


We don't know if Tester has qualified yet.
No one ever remembers second place, eh? eh? GIVE ME COMMAND
Nizaris
Profile Joined May 2010
Belgium2230 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4776
On November 16 2010 20:18 andrewwiggin wrote:

Man..

Protoss are dying like flies.

Out of the protoss who have qualified / are yet to qualify, who exactly is supposed to be our hero toss? =S

Tester of course
~chut~
Profile Joined September 2003
France1317 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4777
On November 16 2010 20:13 Silentness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:10 GTR wrote:
On November 16 2010 20:09 Malinor wrote:
On November 16 2010 20:02 ste0731 wrote:
On November 16 2010 20:02 Silentness wrote:
Do you have to announce what race you are when you pick random at the beginning of the game?

Or does the opponent have to scout your race?


Srsly?

What do you think... Scout


It's a legitimate question. You weren't even allowed to pick random in BW Korean pro-scene (not that it mattered much). Rules about random players are certainly not well known, since they barely exist.


No, the only reason why no one went random was because teams wouldn't let you as they would find it a waste of time. It was never 'banned' by KeSPA per se.


It is a legitimate question though... I remember random was so rare in the BW scene so seeing a random person qualify in SC2 threw me completely off.

Hell you couldn't even go random in OSL/MSL because you had to stick to one race or am I wrong?


You're wrong, you could go random in OSL. You could race pick too. You just needed to tell in advance so your opponents could prepare accordingly.
Elky did it on his last OSL.
Savior picked terran against zergs once in his MSL group (and lost to Gorush btw)
Artisan
Profile Joined February 2010
United States336 Posts
November 16 2010 11:20 GMT
#4778
=( just saw huk didn't make it
Lunchtime
Profile Joined August 2010
183 Posts
November 16 2010 11:21 GMT
#4779
Anyone have a link to the PlayXP site with the updates?
tidus1492
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada12 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-11-16 11:22:18
November 16 2010 11:21 GMT
#4780
On November 16 2010 20:13 Palmar wrote:
Does anyone know the stance of liquid towards the new rumored starcraft2 KESPA? Seeing as they've now got three players qualified to play in the GSL ro65, I think they should start considering integrating the team with the korean community. Or will they perhaps remain a sub-team of oGs?

Also...

Show nested quote +
On November 16 2010 20:08 zimz wrote:
i think painuser would of made it. too bad he dint go


Why do so many people whose native language is English type "would of" instead of "would have"? The sentence doesn't even make sense unless it's "have".






Made a forum account so I could ask you quite simply, who cares?

I find grammar police a lot more frustrating than spelling and grammar mistakes. See how annoying it is when people whine about stuff that really doesn't matter?
Proud supporter of replacing Gretorp as a caster for NASL.
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