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i'd say the only surprising thing about the results of this tournament is that no protoss players advanced. idra even thought they would, and they didn't. it's unfortunate, because we were really left with a terran-dominated tournament which made it pretty boring except for some of the TvZ games. hopefully the next big thing won't be 50% of one race.
i guess i'm surprised idra lost to morrow. that's just based off of him beating tarson, though. the games with sarenz were very close, and dimaga lost to morrow as well. since i struggle with terrans on my level of play, im very glad idra and dimaga showed a lot of people how to beat terran armies in the mid/late, and they showed how zerg can crush terran early aggression with superior micro to transition to that stage.
as for imbalance, i do think terran players need to pick it up at this level of play. most of them seemed to fall apart when their aggression fails. they do pushes that make no sense and overextend their armies against muta contains. i do not think the zerg players would have been so successful if the terrans had better plans for transitioning. no sorry i don't think massing units out of whatever tech you've accumulated with your intent to abuse early game is a solid plan every game. morrow showed a good way for terrans to transition when early game abuse fails to gain the momentum to secure a win.
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On August 23 2010 00:00 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:54 Shatter wrote:On August 22 2010 23:50 teamsolid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:48 Shatter wrote:
I wish Idra played differently at least every once in while. It seems way too easy to plan a series against him and come up with counter builds. It sets him at a disadvantage in planning for BoX, in addition to the fact that his games are some of the most popular.
This isn't exactly an accurate comparison but even Jaedong couldn't win a starleague if he 12 hatched every game and is known for 12 hatching every game. Dimaga has tried different builds (e.g. quick nydus all-in), and we saw how well that turned out. Other than that, there is no other opening Z build besides 14 gas 14 pool that is safe against 3-rax --> 5 rax reaper. My point really didn't have to do with the games themselves. More of planning for a series. Idra is at such a disadvantage because people know the sun will explode before Idra tries any cheese/semi-cheese or even really deviates from his Idra build. So it is much more simpler to come up with strategies to beat him in a BoX. Zerg have a good cheese? Honestly, if there was a zerg build that had a moderate success I'm sure some zerg would try it to throw terran off their game. However, if there is one, I certainly haven't seen it. You are right, Zerg have pretty terrible choice in openings. But other Zerg players I've seen do baneling busts or 1 base spires before. They are at least known for mixing things up every once in a while. Now of course, these would be terrible for what Idra was facing today. But when you are planning for a BoX with Idra, there is almost no unpredictability because he is known for playing the exact same way every game. If you were playing Dimaga or Sen, you would be much less sure of their strategy. With Idra there is no sense of mystery. It is easier to feel more comfortable playing Idra. I'm sure Morrow felt less comfortable doing 5 rax reaper vs Dimaga than he did vs. Idra.
Formulating a counter strategy is just more easy vs. Idra than other players.
Of course this isn't a major point but it sure does not help Idra when playing in tournaments.
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On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC
Ok, the best terran player participating in this tournament, deal? :D
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lol wtf is going on atm on the stream? Anyone knows what that angry dude was saying??
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On August 23 2010 00:11 rockon1215 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:10 BlindDruid wrote:On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. Furthermore ANY German shoutcaster is using this word. Just because it`s a part of the gaminglanguage. So it`s not politically incorrect in the first place, it`s a word which have been brought to another level to descripe a totally different situation. Or did you see some reapers behind IdrA trying to pull down his pants? See - me neither! creepiest porno EVER
~In the rear, with the gear!~
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On August 23 2010 00:12 BlindDruid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC Ok, the best terran player participating in this tournament, deal? :D
Okay
User was warned for this post
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On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC
No, that crown goes to Morrow as far as I'm concerned until TheSTC plays in international tournaments and proves himself the better.
My strongest pet peeve in e-Sports has been towards people who claim competitive status without proof. That's just pure fanboyism.
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On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act.
it doesnt mean that they could not use the word. they could also play with just underwear on, but that would be dumb and drive people away who might be interested in the pro-gaming scene.
we're trying to make the pro-gaming scene grow, not drive out anyone who gets offended by the word "rape" so our own group of super nerds stays constant and doesnt increase in number.
btw i didnt care that he said it personally.
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I really think that game 4 lost Idra the game, he shouldnt had lost that (maybe he missclicked his spire?). He could then have afforded a loss on steppes and take the 5th game.
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On August 23 2010 00:13 CuttyFlam wrote:
lol wtf is going on atm on the stream? Anyone knows what that angry dude was saying??
He has no ID card on stage, so Take can't give him the prize. LOL
"If he's lying, he's a big monkey" Take <3
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Yeah, watching the stream I kept asking, where is the spire?!?!
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Enough with the rage allready? Go do something useful.
Dimaga is the player that my respect has grown for the most this tournament. Such an awesome guy.
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On August 23 2010 00:15 elle05 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:13 CuttyFlam wrote:
lol wtf is going on atm on the stream? Anyone knows what that angry dude was saying?? He has no ID card on stage, so Take can't give him the prize. LOL "I he's lying, he's a big monkey" Take <3
He didn`t have anyting to proce his identity - no insurance card, no nothing.
^_^
But he at least won a mouse.
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On August 22 2010 23:42 PJA wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:30 Crissaegrim wrote:On August 22 2010 23:22 Technique wrote:On August 22 2010 23:19 setzer wrote:
How anyone can have self-respect after doing this is beyond me. Poor day to be a fan. Wow every1 should get real on TL... Rts = abuse w/e works to its fullest. Morrow has done so gg he deserves the win  . You dont get how it works. Abuse the advantages of your race is one thing when the game has reached a relatively balanced state is different from just being obnoxious. If you do anything in BW, no one will complain about you "abusing" your "OP-ness". SC2, a relatively new game, is still unbalanced (its only a month in...so be realistic). According to you logic, I should just bribe the judges etc to win since it works right? Sheesh these Machiavellian guys are just so annoying. Yes, exploiting in-game features is the same as bribing judges. Just get the hell off the forums with your terrible logic.
Yes abusing imbalances makes Morrow deserve the win. Not that he played better or macro-ed better but because he abuse whatever works?
Sigh, people like you should get the hell out of the forum with your terrible perception and thought train.
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On August 22 2010 23:56 Angra wrote:
2) IdrA did NOT play well on some of the games, especially Blistering Sands. 1000 mins/1000 gas? Max energy on queens? Come on.
I think he played well on Blistering Sands. The part that cost him the game IMO was trying to break the forward bunkers...he lost a majority of his force there. The early macro slip sucked, but he recovered from it and his awesome micro let his units be that much more effective...but he threw away that advantage. Max energy on the Queens in common in any long game, and he didn't have the money to use all of his larva anyway. But I basically agree that he did slip up on some of his games.
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Im really really disapointet from the finals not gaming wise but from the players. man do these players even realize that they made it to the finals of the tournament? they are like zombies having no emotions and stuff. acting and looking completely awkward on the stage they are a shame for their sponsors and the tournament. they are great at the sport but they are entertainers too and there they completely fail imo. the only ones who knew how to act on stage were day9 and dimiaga imo and i think dimaga is the true winner of the tournament because he seemed to be the only one who is enjoying himself and he is the one who proofs the cliche of the nerdy gamer to be wrong. if you want to bring e-sports to the mass, the crowd must be able to identify themselves with the players and the players have to reflect a good image.
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at least no girl won the I 7 and the motherboard ^_°
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On August 23 2010 00:13 Hokey.pokey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:11 rockon1215 wrote:On August 23 2010 00:10 BlindDruid wrote:On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. Furthermore ANY German shoutcaster is using this word. Just because it`s a part of the gaminglanguage. So it`s not politically incorrect in the first place, it`s a word which have been brought to another level to descripe a totally different situation. Or did you see some reapers behind IdrA trying to pull down his pants? See - me neither! creepiest porno EVER ~In the rear, with the gear!~ lol
Don't forget: I'm the raper reaper man
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On August 23 2010 00:05 Gamjadori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:56 Angra wrote:
I just have a few statements that I want to leave here because I think all of this whining is getting ridiculous from both sides of the argument.
1) For the people blaming Morrow for his play, what the hell do you expect him to do? Go "oh well my race is imba so I'm going to not try hard to make it even" ? He's been playing Terran since the beta first started. He played Terran at an incredibly high level in SC1. Of course he's going to play as best he can to win. You think that he's going to gimp himself just because he doesn't want random people on the internet to call him out on his race he's been playing for years being OP just recently? Come on.
2) IdrA did NOT play well on some of the games, especially Blistering Sands. 1000 mins/1000 gas? Max energy on queens? Come on. You can't say that IdrA was the better player that game at all and that he got beat just because of a cheesy strategy.
3) The game is what like not even 2 months old? People arguing about racial imbalances really need to take a step back and stop jumping on bandwagons. It seems like every single Terran on TL is arguing that Terran isn't OP, and every single Zerg on TL is arguing that Terran is more OP than anything else on the planet. I'm not saying that SC2 is the most balanced thing ever, it's obviously not, but seriously just give it time and try your best to play well. I'm so sick of people blaming racial imbalances for every single match ever that's being played right now, but I'm also sick of people seeing like one match where a zerg beats a terran or protoss and goes SEE?? ZERG IS JUST FINE.
I've been lurking TL for a couple years now and started posting about a year ago, and I really can barely stand reading a lot of sections of this forum anymore. Nobody is willing to compromise, nobody is willing to take a neutral stance on anything it seems like anymore, especially involving SC2. There's ridiculous, wild calls for nerfs and people blaming PLAYERS for problems with SC2. Really? Come on.
Of course there's going to be problems with SC2. I'm not even going to get into my biggest problem with the game, being that it's actually just not fun at all to play or watch, but even beyond that I can't believe people are SO incendiary that they have to be like this about a game in its infant state. Instead of making ridiculous claims and just trying to get whatever race you play at the time to be easy for you, why not actually make logical, well thought out suggestions. Terran doesn't need to be nerfed. At all. Zerg needs to be buffed however. But there's so many people who just are so ANGRY that they are blaming players like Morrow for it. Jeez.
If anything, be mad at Blizzard for making the game not fun first of all, and not balanced second. But please, please, please, don't blame the players. That's just ridiculous.
Congratulations to Morrow for winning the tournament, and congrats to Idra, DImaga, Tarson, and everyone else for being really good players and playing some exciting games. I 100% agree with this. Live report threads used to be a lot more fun with people cheering for their favorite player and discussing games in a well mannered fashion. Now it's all turned in to one long flame war. I wish people could just relax a bit and enjoy the games. Isn't that why we all came here in the first place? Morrow is an incredible player. He deserves this win without a doubt. Also props to ESL for hosting an amazing tournament.
I completely agree with your agreeing!
Hopefully a purge of these threads will happen now that it's over.
Anyway, it's been a great tournament and Morrow was a nice surprise.
Here's the first time I saw him play, he's taken quite a leap since then!
Nice to see gaming dreams coming true!
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=82937
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On August 23 2010 00:20 omnonn wrote:
Im really really disapointet from the finals not gaming wise but from the players. man do these players even realize that they made it to the finals of the tournament? they are like zombies having no emotions and stuff. acting and looking completely awkward on the stage they are a shame for their sponsors and the tournament. they are great at the sport but they are entertainers too and there they completely fail imo. the only ones who knew how to act on stage were day9 and dimiaga imo and i think dimaga is the true winner of the tournament because he seemed to be the only one who is enjoying himself and he is the one who proofs the cliche of the nerdy gamer to be wrong. if you want to bring e-sports to the mass, the crowd must be able to identify themselves with the players and the players have to reflect a good image.
maybe the reason dimaga is the only one who broke the stereotype of "nerdy gamer" is because for the most part "nerdy gamer" is a correct stereotype? look at the BW scene. the only 2 people i can think of who are always acting crazy is firebathero and hiya. obviously theres more, but BW is BW and SC2 isnt there yet.
you are right, the scene wont grow if the stars are turbo nerds, but you are asking them to be someone they arent. stop being ignorant.
edit:
technically the scene is growing, so i retract that statement.
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EPT
