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On August 23 2010 00:02 Yurie wrote:
How were the finals boring? If anything reaper play is some of the most exciting play in sc2.
Imo its boring due to the weight attached to the mass reaper. Its not just harassment. Its a game winner, and its the first offensive unit put on the field by the terran. Theres no required build up or set up for it. You can just do it. If it doesnt kill the zerg right away, it puts the zerg behind in the mid game due to being unable to take a third, or damaging the economy of the zerg.
Its obvious that mass reapers doesnt guarantee success for the terran player. It just stacks the odds in the favourr of the terran. This is however enough to not make a game exciting. It becomes too predictable.
This is bad for E-sports in two ways: Predictability is bad for viewers, and its an uneven playing field for competitors.
Of all the SC2 tournaments Ive watched this had by far the worst finals. Possibly even the worst including all the SC1 finals Ive seen, even tho I completely dislike watching ZvZ matchups in SC1. Tbh Ive never seen a high level ZvZ in SC2, so not sure how Id feel about that one.
Disregarding the finals, the tournament has been a pleasure to watch. The lack of protoss players mixing it up was a setback, and the finals was tbh something just waiting to happen. Too bad it had to be the finals, so the focus on this would be so great.
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On August 23 2010 00:10 BlindDruid wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. Furthermore ANY German shoutcaster is using this word. Just because it`s a part of the gaminglanguage. So it`s not politically incorrect in the first place, it`s a word which have been brought to another level to descripe a totally different situation. Or did you see some reapers behind IdrA trying to pull down his pants? See - me neither!
The use of the word rape is immature, as is the audience at which shoutcasting in Germany is tailored for. Also, just finding the original meaning of a word and constructing an artificial argument around it isn't going to justify its use. All I can see here is a desperate attempt to deny that the usage is uncomfortable to anyone not as numbed down by its continuous use as the gaming community.
To further degrade your argument: The original meaning of the word "gay" is " happy, fun-loviong, colorful"
So what does that do to the term "gay strategy"?
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On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:Show nested quote +On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act.
Sorry, but it's pretty clear that it's used in gaming because of the abusive sexual meaning behind it. Just some quotes I remember
- Jaedong is destroying Baby -> Only in Korean TV is legal to show small boy getting raped.
- Drones are repeatedly destroyed by hellion raids -> Man these hellions are raping him in the ass!
Please explain how this is not sexual?
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You realize that rape has more than just the sexual definition, right?
[edit] Christ this is ridiculous. Do you have a sense of humor?
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On August 23 2010 00:22 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:20 omnonn wrote:
Im really really disapointet from the finals not gaming wise but from the players. man do these players even realize that they made it to the finals of the tournament? they are like zombies having no emotions and stuff. acting and looking completely awkward on the stage they are a shame for their sponsors and the tournament. they are great at the sport but they are entertainers too and there they completely fail imo. the only ones who knew how to act on stage were day9 and dimiaga imo and i think dimaga is the true winner of the tournament because he seemed to be the only one who is enjoying himself and he is the one who proofs the cliche of the nerdy gamer to be wrong. if you want to bring e-sports to the mass, the crowd must be able to identify themselves with the players and the players have to reflect a good image. maybe the reason dimaga is the only one who broke the stereotype of "nerdy gamer" is because for the most part "nerdy gamer" is a correct stereotype? look at the BW scene. the only 2 people i can think of who are always acting crazy is firebathero and hiya. obviously theres more, but BW is BW and SC2 isnt there yet. you are right, the scene wont grow if the stars are turbo nerds, but you are asking them to be someone they arent. stop being ignorant. edit: technically the scene is growing, so i retract that statement.
Pretty much this. It's in a way (a very distant one) comparable to women's tennis. The best female players are generally alot less aesthetically pleasing, while the ones that generate the interest in women's tennis are usually the less-skilled-more-attractive competitors.
The same goes for E-sports in general. To generate interest in the sport and draw in new crowds, you need players that appeal to the un-exposed viewers. Whether this be through physical appearance or crazy behaviour, the fact remains that the players themselves draw in the crowds more than the content of their games. More players like Dimaga would be a great benefit to the E-sport scene, especially if they have both the skill to be a great player as well as the personality to make the competition interesting.
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On August 23 2010 00:13 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC No, that crown goes to Morrow as far as I'm concerned until TheSTC plays in international tournaments and proves himself the better. My strongest pet peeve in e-Sports has been towards people who claim competitive status without proof. That's just pure fanboyism.
Are you seriously questioning oGsTheSTC's accomplishments so far? You shouldn't be writing him off if you're actually unaware of who he is(which is just as bad as your pet peeve).
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On August 23 2010 00:13 Azarkon wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC No, that crown goes to Morrow as far as I'm concerned until TheSTC plays in international tournaments and proves himself the better. My strongest pet peeve in e-Sports has been towards people who claim competitive status without proof. That's just pure fanboyism.
.
I don't know man he's already proven himself against all of the top players in Korea. He's in the HDH2 so we'll see how it all works out.
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People should get off the imba train. Boxer had the balls to triple bunker rush. You do what it takes to win. Idra wouldn't disagree with that. He would claim imba, but he wouldn't disagree with that point.
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Lol I'd love to see Dimaga walse in with his arms around the two babes waving the flag like it's Superman's cape with a huge grin on his face 
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On August 23 2010 00:22 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:20 omnonn wrote:
Im really really disapointet from the finals not gaming wise but from the players. man do these players even realize that they made it to the finals of the tournament? they are like zombies having no emotions and stuff. acting and looking completely awkward on the stage they are a shame for their sponsors and the tournament. they are great at the sport but they are entertainers too and there they completely fail imo. the only ones who knew how to act on stage were day9 and dimiaga imo and i think dimaga is the true winner of the tournament because he seemed to be the only one who is enjoying himself and he is the one who proofs the cliche of the nerdy gamer to be wrong. if you want to bring e-sports to the mass, the crowd must be able to identify themselves with the players and the players have to reflect a good image. maybe the reason dimaga is the only one who broke the stereotype of "nerdy gamer" is because for the most part "nerdy gamer" is a correct stereotype? look at the BW scene. the only 2 people i can think of who are always acting crazy is firebathero and hiya. obviously theres more, but BW is BW and SC2 isnt there yet. you are right, the scene wont grow if the stars are turbo nerds, but you are asking them to be someone they arent. stop being ignorant. edit: technically the scene is growing, so i retract that statement.
i dont ask them to be someone else, but if they behave like this the stage isnt the right place for them. im not saying they should stop play right now and quit e-sports because they look weird obviously that would be completely absurd but i think thats an issue wich could screw many people who are interested in e-sports and begin to root for their favorite player and then see he doesnt react and looks like he doesnt even care about what he is doing. but maybe im the only one with this problem and it isnt actually that big of a deal.
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On August 23 2010 00:30 tangwhat wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:13 Azarkon wrote:On August 23 2010 00:11 Gentso wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 BlindDruid wrote:On August 22 2010 23:34 bodycount wrote:
Terrible finals. A terran wins over a 2x better play with pure abuse 1base all-in's. Probably the best terran player, when it comes to timing pushes with excellent macro and micro AND mindgames wins. No, that crown goes to oGsTheSTC No, that crown goes to Morrow as far as I'm concerned until TheSTC plays in international tournaments and proves himself the better. My strongest pet peeve in e-Sports has been towards people who claim competitive status without proof. That's just pure fanboyism. Are you seriously questioning oGsTheSTC's accomplishments so far? You shouldn't be writing him off if you're actually unaware of who he is(which is just as bad as your pet peeve).
What has he accomplished outside of Korea?
I've never seen him play non-Koreans, so I will withhold judgment until he does.
Former pro-gamer status doesn't imply auto-win. Tester was a former pro-gamer. He still lost to IdrA. ITR was a former pro-gamer. He still lost to qxc.
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On August 23 2010 00:13 tbrown47 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. it doesnt mean that they could not use the word. they could also play with just underwear on, but that would be dumb and drive people away who might be interested in the pro-gaming scene. we're trying to make the pro-gaming scene grow, not drive out anyone who gets offended by the word "rape" so our own group of super nerds stays constant and doesnt increase in number. btw i didnt care that he said it personally.
hard assed puritans dont make good gamers in my experience
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I fully agree with omonn. Nobody says progamers have to showboat all the time or pull crazy stunts on stage. Just show some passion and joy for your game guys...
I think morrow would have been a lot more joyful if he wasn't so uncomfortable with those girls :D
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On August 23 2010 00:37 3nickma wrote:Lol I'd love to see Dimaga walse in with his arms around the two babes waving the flag like it's Superman's cape with a huge grin on his face
Next time!
Wow, Dimaga made a great example of how a gamer's personality should be. Man, you can't do anything but like the guy! Complete contrast to Idra, who seems completely void of emotions at times. Makes it hard to "connect" to him and his play in my opinion.
This is the first major live SC tournament I follow, and I can safely say that it has been the most exciting tournament of ANY game I have watched throughout the years.
And what's even more awesome is that this is merely the first of so so many huge SC tournaments to come!
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On August 22 2010 23:38 Azarkon wrote:
Let's not talk about imbalance.
The important thing is that Morrow did what all the other Terrans in the tournament could not: defeat Idra and Dimaga. This shows him to be the strongest TvZ in the entire tournament, bar none. You cannot dismiss the fact that 2nd and 3rd place were both taken by Zergs. If Terran was truly so easy to play, why couldn't Strelok, Tarson, Lucifron, Sarens, etc. beat the Zergs?
Oh, and he also defeated TLO.
He totally deserves this.
Congrats Morrow. This tournament will surely put your name on the map when it comes to SC 2.
+1+1+1 I completly agree with you.
User was warned for this post
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On August 23 2010 00:25 coma wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:10 BlindDruid wrote:On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. Furthermore ANY German shoutcaster is using this word. Just because it`s a part of the gaminglanguage. So it`s not politically incorrect in the first place, it`s a word which have been brought to another level to descripe a totally different situation. Or did you see some reapers behind IdrA trying to pull down his pants? See - me neither! The use of the word rape is immature, as is the audience at which shoutcasting in Germany is tailored for. Also, just finding the original meaning of a word and constructing an artificial argument around it isn't going to justify its use. All I can see here is a desperate attempt to deny that the usage is uncomfortable to anyone not as numbed down by its continuous use as the gaming community. To further degrade your argument: The original meaning of the word "gay" is " happy, fun-loviong, colorful" So what does that do to the term "gay strategy"?
Here, "gay" is being used derogatorily. A negative is being attached to a group, then being imported into another context. The no-no of that process is apparent I hope. How does this even apply to the use of the word rape? lol linguistic fail. Stop imposing your own linguistic perspectives onto others. As if the feelings YOU attach to words is somehow more accurate or true than anybody else's.
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On August 23 2010 00:42 x7i wrote:
hard assed puritans dont make good gamers in my experience
did u just call people who dont like the word rape hard assed puritans?
wellp i dont think i can counter that one more stupidly than you countered me
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I do not think it's possible for a thread to go more overboard than this one has.
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On August 23 2010 00:26 L0thar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 23 2010 00:06 Twist-O-Fate wrote:On August 22 2010 23:42 Osmoses wrote:On August 22 2010 23:40 Swede wrote:And less talk about gay strategies and rape Did anyone else cringe when Apollo said "rape" in front of hundreds of audience members? I was ashamed to be a gamer. You know, in that thread about gaming and the word rape I was actually against any form of moderation but to be perfectly honest hearing it said live by a caster in front of this many people was really... uncomfortable. That uncomfortableness is a product of your own biases, and lack of understanding of language. the word rape was not borrowed from the sexual realm and applied to other things....It is actually the opposite. Rape in its truest form means pillage, destroy, violent seizure, abuse. It was then imported to characterize the sexual act. Sorry, but it's pretty clear that it's used in gaming because of the abusive sexual meaning behind it. Just some quotes I remember - Jaedong is destroying Baby -> Only in Korean TV is legal to show small boy getting raped. - Drones are repeatedly destroyed by hellion raids -> Man these hellions are raping him in the ass! Please explain how this is not sexual?
Uhmmmm those examples are not not sexual. But don't use instances to deduce generalized blanketing rules and statements about a word. Just because some idiots can't grasp how the word stands on its own, doesn't vilify the word...it vilifies the idiots.
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EPT
