EPT[Nordic] ESL Viking Cup - Page 15
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
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Hider
Denmark9443 Posts
On September 25 2010 04:56 Gnax wrote: Is it me, or was Lalush actually the one 1A moving the whole game, while naama actually microed, and dropped etc? pathetic comments. That was what i throught as well. Naama had really good micro that game. Lalush showed nothing other than macroing decently. | ||
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
It's really kind of dumb how Z tier-1/2 are completely useless once the Terran reaches a critical mass, and the only way to combat them is to transition entirely into ultra/broods. Meanwhile MMM + tanks and drops are viable all game long. | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On September 25 2010 04:52 Skyze wrote: lol lalush.. he made SOOO many bad decisions and horrible mistakes, its no wonder he lost so bad. I hate how just because the VERY top zergs like Cool and Idra see a tiny bit of unfairness at the VERY top level (GSL).. people who are no where near their level and basically kill themselves like lalush take it as an excuse to blame their loss on. lalush is a bad player, he relies on pure macro but has horrible decision making and micro, and it was shown right there. Maybe he should worry less about imbalance and improve himself for once. Yeah, lalush is really bad zerg, he just got to the finals beating Morrow,fuzer,satiini on the way and they are all newb terrans. Naama clearly outplayed him pro macro and micro. Think before you post please. Naama plays the most boring terran I have ever seen. Same opening and unit composition every single game. What do you want lalush to micro? he was using hydra/roach off creep, try micro that lol. Doing multiple things with terran is not the same as defending at multiple locations for zerg. You can do multiple drops and attacks with 85 apm ( Sjow has 85 apm), but to defend against it, you need shitloads more. Basicly there is something fundamentally wrong with the game when you can have 2vs3 bases with half the workers of your opponent, and still outproduce him and push forward to kill his expansion. No matter what the fuck units lalush made, that shouldnt happen. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 25 2010 04:57 3clipse wrote: Imbalances aside, Naama completely outplayed lalush in those last games. I was really, really impressed when Naama attacked on 3 separate fronts in the Metalopolis game. Lalush played pretty well, but I think his downfall was relying so heavily on roach/hydra. You shouldn't be so impressed; it takes like 1-3 clicks to make each of those tri-front attacks and 3948623864 clicks for the Zerg to counter it | ||
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Kaitsuh
Finland45 Posts
On September 25 2010 04:58 Hider wrote: That was what i throught as well. Naama had really good micro that game. Lalush showed nothing other than macroing decently. I don't think so at all. Naama did play better overall and deserved it, but Lalush had pretty good fungal growths going on and worked hard at getting a good arc in a lot of the fights. There's just not anything else to micro with that army. It's a huge part of why zerg is a little frustrating when especially off-creep there's just no way to micro and every attack you do is automatically fully committed if you have hydras. MMM moves so freaking fast in combat that the zerg backing away from the fight just doesn't work like it does for the terran who has siege tanks behind him. | ||
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hifriend
China7935 Posts
Or maybe that's it, terran pickers are inherently better at microing while zerg pickers suck at defending early game, preventing harass and scouting openings. :D edit: seriously think about this, I guarantee you that in 9 out of 10 terran matchups the commentators will be nerdgasming all over terran micro lol. | ||
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Skyze
Canada2324 Posts
On September 25 2010 04:58 Pekkz wrote: Yeah, lalush is really bad zerg, he just got to the finals beating Morrow,fuzer,satiini on the way and they are all newb terrans. Naama clearly outplayed him pro macro and micro. Think before you post please. Naama plays the most boring terran I have ever seen. Same opening and unit composition every single game. What do you want lalush to micro? he was using hydra/roach off creep, try micro that lol. Well I didnt watch the rest of the tourney, but from watching him in these finals, he played bad. VERY bad. You can't deny that, regardless of how well he played the other days. Naama plays smart but not cheesy.. Hes not getting 40 tanks sieging up behind turrets and waiting til zerg is out of minerals (if you ladder, you'll run across those types of terrans once in awhile) but he turtled just enough to have a strong enough force, then went on the agressive. He used terran to their advantage, while lalush just ran his hydras into armies and lost them all over 10+ times, or when he had mutas that one game he did very very little damage/harassing. using hydra/roach off creep? You run them back and work on your creep spreading, or wait til your army is actually bigger than the opponent. I saw a battle in the last game where lalush had about 20 hydras vs like 8 banshees and 5 marines+2tanks.. If he even took 5-6 hydras off and targeted each individual banshee, he woulda won, but instead he spread his fire between all the marines, and just died. If you dont have an overseer, move back, he was 2 cm away from creep so he woulda been able to (in the middle of blistering sands).. Point is, lalush played terrible in this match, anyone watching that could see. He was on MAJOR tilt, and his BMing just made it even more pathetic considering how bad he was playing. (ps. zergs need to stop following idras ideology of "zerg needs to be defensive".. aggressive zerg play is the way to play zerg, which is why we havent seen much zergs being successful outside of DIMAGA, Check and Cool. Idra is the only "macro zerg" to put up results..) | ||
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DaCruise
Denmark2457 Posts
But whats up with the terrible overlord positioning/rallying? Knowing that Naama doesnt make vikings why dont he spread them out more? On metalopolis he could have pretty much denied those drops with some overlords around 3 o´clock. Using nydus worms would have been a great choice as well I think. | ||
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Kaitsuh
Finland45 Posts
And Lalush's play is as agressive as it gets apart from going all-in. That's not working too well for him either, when has it ever been a good idea to push hard against a terran? Idra is on the right tracks. | ||
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LaLuSh
Sweden2358 Posts
Don't like going hydras. But since he expands with 0 units defending and rushes raven, mutas are a complete waste. Impossible to slow play and take a third, since his expo is so early and so greedy, i'll never have enough to defend if I try to take 3rd and play passive. Oh and did I mention MULEs are imba. Economic damage is a concept that doesn't apply to terran. Would have won last game with infestors. Tried to make them at 3-4 different points in the game, only to realise towards the end I somehow failed at putting down an infestation pit. | ||
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Brainsurgeon
Sweden359 Posts
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teamsolid
Canada3668 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:07 Skyze wrote: + Show Spoiler + On September 25 2010 04:58 Pekkz wrote: Yeah, lalush is really bad zerg, he just got to the finals beating Morrow,fuzer,satiini on the way and they are all newb terrans. Naama clearly outplayed him pro macro and micro. Think before you post please. Naama plays the most boring terran I have ever seen. Same opening and unit composition every single game. What do you want lalush to micro? he was using hydra/roach off creep, try micro that lol. Well I didnt watch the rest of the tourney, but from watching him in these finals, he played bad. VERY bad. You can't deny that, regardless of how well he played the other days. Naama plays smart but not cheesy.. Hes not getting 40 tanks sieging up behind turrets and waiting til zerg is out of minerals (if you ladder, you'll run across those types of terrans once in awhile) but he turtled just enough to have a strong enough force, then went on the agressive. He used terran to their advantage, while lalush just ran his hydras into armies and lost them all over 10+ times, or when he had mutas that one game he did very very little damage/harassing. using hydra/roach off creep? You run them back and work on your creep spreading, or wait til your army is actually bigger than the opponent. I saw a battle in the last game where lalush had about 20 hydras vs like 8 banshees and 5 marines+2tanks.. If he even took 5-6 hydras off and targeted each individual banshee, he woulda won, but instead he spread his fire between all the marines, and just died. If you dont have an overseer, move back, he was 2 cm away from creep so he woulda been able to (in the middle of blistering sands).. Point is, lalush played terrible in this match, anyone watching that could see. He was on MAJOR tilt, and his BMing just made it even more pathetic considering how bad he was playing. (ps. zergs need to stop following idras ideology of "zerg needs to be defensive".. aggressive zerg play is the way to play zerg, which is why we havent seen much zergs being successful outside of DIMAGA, Check and Cool. Idra is the only "macro zerg" to put up results..) You are way overexaggerating things here. Lalush got to the point where he was on 3 base vs 2 base with like more than double the harvesters of Terran. How did he get there? With smart play, aggressively punishing T when he expos that fast. You don't just magically end up with this kind of advantage. Pretty sure the reason he lost G4 was because he didn't transition into T3. If you continue making roach/hydras you just lose no matter what kind of econ advantage you got or however well you attempt to "micro roach/hydra off creep". And like we saw in G2, making ravens w/HSM early on pretty much hard counter muta-builds. Can't wait for more Terrans to start doing that on ladder. | ||
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Pekkz
Norway1505 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:07 Skyze wrote: Well I didnt watch the rest of the tourney, but from watching him in these finals, he played bad. VERY bad. You can't deny that, regardless of how well he played the other days. Naama plays smart but not cheesy.. Hes not getting 40 tanks sieging up behind turrets and waiting til zerg is out of minerals (if you ladder, you'll run across those types of terrans once in awhile) but he turtled just enough to have a strong enough force, then went on the agressive. He used terran to their advantage, while lalush just ran his hydras into armies and lost them all over 10+ times, or when he had mutas that one game he did very very little damage/harassing. using hydra/roach off creep? You run them back and work on your creep spreading, or wait til your army is actually bigger than the opponent. I saw a battle in the last game where lalush had about 20 hydras vs like 8 banshees and 5 marines+2tanks.. If he even took 5-6 hydras off and targeted each individual banshee, he woulda won, but instead he spread his fire between all the marines, and just died. If you dont have an overseer, move back, he was 2 cm away from creep so he woulda been able to (in the middle of blistering sands).. Point is, lalush played terrible in this match, anyone watching that could see. He was on MAJOR tilt, and his BMing just made it even more pathetic considering how bad he was playing. (ps. zergs need to stop following idras ideology of "zerg needs to be defensive".. aggressive zerg play is the way to play zerg, which is why we havent seen much zergs being successful outside of DIMAGA, Check and Cool. Idra is the only "macro zerg" to put up results..) Im not saying lalush played good those last games, cus he didnt. But why is that naama can do the same build order every game and be successfull? Why do Zerg need to play flawless everygame to be able to win. Why can terran do million misstakes and still win? Why can terran have half the scv count of drones and still win? Everything boils down to the medivac. And it allways will until blizzard understands how overpowerd that unit is. Mixing medic and dropship was a cool idea, but its extreamly overpowerd. They need to reduce the ammount it heals, or increase the energy it uses when it heals. Couple dropships can support silly ammount of units. Banshee is also totally retarded, atleast reduce their damage so they need 3 shots to kill workers. | ||
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OminouS
Sweden1343 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:06 hifriend wrote: I've noticed a trend recently in that every time there's a zvt the commentators are constantly praising the terrans micro. Personally I don't find sc2 especially micro intensive but seriously, every terran can't be a micro genius. Or maybe that's it, terran pickers are inherently better at microing while zerg pickers suck at defending early game, preventing harass and scouting openings. :D edit: seriously think about this, I guarantee you that in 9 out of 10 terran matchups the commentators will be nerdgasming all over terran micro lol. I don't know about that, but the part I 'praised' was the decision making from Naama, not the micro per sei. Great to be co-casting, hoping for more co-casts in the future. | ||
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3clipse
Canada2555 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:01 theqat wrote: You shouldn't be so impressed; it takes like 1-3 clicks to make each of those tri-front attacks and 3948623864 clicks for the Zerg to counter it I play zerg, I know how hard it is. Terran is much easier overall, but give Naama some credit. I think he made really smart decisions and had nice micro for the whole series. | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
TODAY EVERY NOOB TERRAN CAN PLAY LIKE FLASH WITHOUT HAVE ANY SKILL AT ALL!!!! ps: is not naama, nor any noob terran playing today.. its an blizzard issue. They need to sell 3 games, wings of liberty its just a shitty terran arcade game. | ||
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Hider
Denmark9443 Posts
On September 25 2010 05:15 LaLuSh wrote: Don't like banshees. Whoever thought of the design concept for banshees over at Blizzard is a complete retard. An easily accessible air unit that 2 shots workers. On top of that no anti air unit in tier1/tier1.5 for one of the races. Way to add insane randomness to the game. Don't like going hydras. But since he expands with 0 units defending and rushes raven, mutas are a complete waste. Impossible to slow play and take a third, since his expo is so early and so greedy, i'll never have enough to defend if I try to take 3rd and play passive. Oh and did I mention MULEs are imba. Economic damage is a concept that doesn't apply to terran. Would have won last game with infestors. Tried to make them at 3-4 different points in the game, only to realise towards the end I somehow failed at putting down an infestation pit. Still dont get why mutas are a complete waste? Raven is not very good vs mutas compared to how hydras fare. And mutas gives you map control. | ||
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theqat
United States2856 Posts
On September 25 2010 06:02 Hider wrote: Still dont get why mutas are a complete waste? Raven is not very good vs mutas compared to how hydras fare. And mutas gives you map control. Raven is much better vs. Mutas than Hydras other than the fact that Hydras cannot run from anything. PDD shines big time vs. slow-firing Mutas as opposed to fast-firing Hydras. | ||
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No_eL
Chile1438 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/8673/fuckterrans.jpg) | ||
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