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This is unbelievable ... do you realize that showing replays as "live" on stream will only ruin e-sports credibility? Imagine someone new to e-sports:
Q: "Hey why are we watching replays instead of the live game??"
A: "Because SC2 players are unknown to public, have nothing to lose, and therefore will obviously try to cheat by watching the stream."
In what other sport do you see measures like these to be taken?? Are football players phones listened 24/24, or are they put under surveillance because there's always a chance they might get bribed to lose the match??
It looks like replays as "live" will become a trend here on teamliquid. I've been watching the W3 scene forever with all online tournaments being live, and never heard of any top player to be cheating!
Seriously ... this is pathetic already. Where were you when people sent money to Rekrul for betting on e-sports, based only on trust. How is he more trust-worthy than the 16 players invited in this tournament?
Please name me the players whom you suspect will be cheating. I want to see you posting: "Chances that Nazgul will cheat must not be neglected!". Seriously go ahead and post names. You won't do it because it's almost impossible to think they will cheat. They are not random unknown players ffs ...
Whatever, some of you are way too paranoid.
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personally i believe
* Advokate
* Dimaga
* F91
* Juanjo
* Mercury
* Pomi
* Reason
* RiboRibo
* Sarens
* Scan
* Vasilisk
* Yosh
would be willing to cheat in a high profile tournament
shut up
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I told you to name one of the 16 players invited in this tournament. Go ahead please. Let's see how will you make it not to sound ridiculous.
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those players are somehow more respectable than dimaga a2 and f91 were before tsl? the whole point is you know absolutely nothing about these players besides the fact that some of them are good at sc2. you are judging their respectability on.. nothing that is relevant. who knows who would cheat, but there is certainly a chance that someone will and its a very easy problem to avoid.
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On April 20 2010 22:59 cyclone25 wrote:
I told you to name one of the 16 players invited in this tournament. Go ahead please. Let's see how will you make it not to sound ridiculous.
why do you even argue about this?
The tournament has a money prize and cheating with a livestream cant be proven.
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have to agree on idra here
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Nice, let's make E-Sports known to the world as a game of cheaters. Anyway, I got tired already. Keep agreeing with IdrA ... maybe you will gain his respect by doing so ^^
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On April 20 2010 22:55 cyclone25 wrote:
This is unbelievable ... do you realize that showing replays as "live" on stream will only ruin e-sports credibility? Imagine someone new to e-sports:
Q: "Hey why are we watching replays instead of the live game??"
A: "Because SC2 players are unknown to public, have nothing to lose, and therefore will obviously try to cheat by watching the stream."
In what other sport do you see measures like these to be taken?? Are football players phones listened 24/24, or are they put under surveillance because there's always a chance they might get bribed to lose the match??
That's a completely flawed analogy.... however your point is moot anyway since pro sports organisations go to unbelievable lengths to make sure their athletes don't cheat. Ask any cyclist who competes in the tour de france how much constant drug testing they have to go to in and out of competition. The truth is they'd probably monitor phones as well if it were legal to do so.
A better football comparison would be if a live feed of both coaches half time speeches were broadcast live on the internet but the teams were told they weren't allowed to listen in so they wouldn't hear what the opposing coach had to say. You really think that FIFA would trust people to honour this?
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So, we're what, 2 days from the possible start of matches? I would hazard a guess that it is too late by far to change from replays to live, so is there even a point to arguing about it?
Also, as far as integrity goes (with regard to the game in general), there is still a world of difference between players theoretically being able to cheat via the live stream, and not if replays are cast instead. From the standpoint of any tournaments organisers, any steps they can take to reduce the chances of/ease of cheating is good. Look at just about any tournament where there is some financial gain to be had by the participants - in any you could think of I would bet good money the organisers did everything they could to stop cheating.
So in the end, with the current no delay on livestream, it was never going to be any other way. Hell, even with a short delay some advantages could be gained from watching it, so I think for the time being it is far far better for the tourney side of the game to remain with replays.
Editted for spelling.
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On April 20 2010 22:55 cyclone25 wrote:
This is unbelievable ... do you realize that showing replays as "live" on stream will only ruin e-sports credibility? Imagine someone new to e-sports:
Q: "Hey why are we watching replays instead of the live game??"
A: "Because SC2 players are unknown to public, have nothing to lose, and therefore will obviously try to cheat by watching the stream."
In what other sport do you see measures like these to be taken?? Are football players phones listened 24/24, or are they put under surveillance because there's always a chance they might get bribed to lose the match??
raise your hands if you have heard about people in olympic events or even smaller events that has been banned and lost their medal due to a positive drug test
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On April 20 2010 23:30 ZergOwaR wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2010 22:55 cyclone25 wrote:
This is unbelievable ... do you realize that showing replays as "live" on stream will only ruin e-sports credibility? Imagine someone new to e-sports:
Q: "Hey why are we watching replays instead of the live game??"
A: "Because SC2 players are unknown to public, have nothing to lose, and therefore will obviously try to cheat by watching the stream."
In what other sport do you see measures like these to be taken?? Are football players phones listened 24/24, or are they put under surveillance because there's always a chance they might get bribed to lose the match??
raise your hands if you have heard about people in olympic events or even smaller events that has been banned and lost their medal due to a positive drug test
Raising hand 
Until there is a better technological solution I believe we should do everything to make sure that cheating is not possible. This way e-Sports has more tho gain then to lose. Credibility.
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Is this not going to be live? Just commentated replays?
Rofl, prolly won't watch any of it then - i'm 100% serious.
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On April 20 2010 23:52 Thrill wrote:
Is this not going to be live? Just commentated replays?
Rofl, prolly won't watch any of it then - i'm 100% serious.
Oh no, we'll lose the company of Thrill.
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On April 20 2010 23:52 Thrill wrote:
Is this not going to be live? Just commentated replays?
Rofl, prolly won't watch any of it then - i'm 100% serious.
Are you ten? Seriously between you and cyclone25 this thread is turning into a bunch of spoiled children having temper tantrums that they're not going to get everything exactly how they want it. How immature can you be? People put up thousands of dollars to get these top players to train and clash for our enjoyment, and you're crying that you're incapable of being excited/caring if you have to watch the replays streamed a few hours later versus the matches themselves (and for a perfectly good reason too)? Grow the hell up.
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JUST to prove a point..i registered for the forums (finally) and im gonna explain why having these live would ruin it..
me and my friends have a money pool with the brackets. everyone has idra going to the final game, so im gonna pick him to lose vs orb so if idra does lose, i have an extremely high chance to win that money. now to make it even better, i'll just watch the game live, login to sc2, and whisper orb everything idra is doing cause i can see it live.
thats just an example, but my point is, even if the players are absolutely 100% trustworthy, spectators could ruin it.
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Could we please stop with the Live/Cheating/name flamming and move on? kthx
On topic: some friends and me are concidering "saving" all the matches and watch them on saturday, anyone knows how many have been played there? is it 1 or 2 matches a day in the Round16
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quite disappointing that dimaga was not invited (sry moonglade)... or maybe he was. anyway, if he and perhaps bratok were in here this would EASILY be the most stacked tour yet. good luck to all the competitors.
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On April 20 2010 22:55 cyclone25 wrote:
This is unbelievable ... do you realize that showing replays as "live" on stream will only ruin e-sports credibility? Imagine someone new to e-sports:
Q: "Hey why are we watching replays instead of the live game??"
A: "Because SC2 players are unknown to public, have nothing to lose, and therefore will obviously try to cheat by watching the stream."
In what other sport do you see measures like these to be taken?? Are football players phones listened 24/24, or are they put under surveillance because there's always a chance they might get bribed to lose the match??
It looks like replays as "live" will become a trend here on teamliquid. I've been watching the W3 scene forever with all online tournaments being live, and never heard of any top player to be cheating!
Seriously ... this is pathetic already. Where were you when people sent money to Rekrul for betting on e-sports, based only on trust. How is he more trust-worthy than the 16 players invited in this tournament?
Please name me the players whom you suspect will be cheating. I want to see you posting: "Chances that Nazgul will cheat must not be neglected!". Seriously go ahead and post names. You won't do it because it's almost impossible to think they will cheat. They are not random unknown players ffs ...
Whatever, some of you are way too paranoid.
In what other sport are you only watched the results of the players actions, not the actual player itself! Imagine if all you knew was who scored a touch down and what passes were completed etc but had no way of actually seeing the action being executed. This isnt a perfect analog but the feeling of doubt you could imagine is similar.
Unfortunately having no view of the actual player makes cheating very possible. You need to accept that there is a zero percent chance of getting caught for watching the stream. A live lan event is the equivalent of a live football match. There's a Referee to watch them play and the games are streamed and casted truely live.
Pretty sure football has a referee too, this argument your making is very poor lol.
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In what other sport is there the potential for someone to cheat using the internet while it's played?
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You are all talking like these players are hacking experts, they will make sure to cover any trace of hack (like sending "fake" scouts, "accidentally" being in the wrong place at the wrong time, etc)
Do you really think they will still be able to focus on game when they have another computer near them to watch the stream (or a friend to constantly whisper updates on his opponent), and try not to look hackish in front of 10.000 viewers watching them live?
Please try to think for a second and not generalize everything ... wtf is with the olympics example and players taking drugs lol. This is different.
Or you imagine Idra and Artosis agreeing to help eachother and share the prize at the end, or Tasteless to cheat against Day[9] ... haha. Give me examples with who and how will do it, not stupid examples that are not related to this. You will see how ridiculous will sound, and that it's not a reason good enough for games not to be live streamed.
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EPT
