EPTi even scout it and was chrono stalkers and still it didnt hold , how the hell can one counter that
pvt how to counter 3 rex proxy
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mynamex
6 Posts
i even scout it and was chrono stalkers and still it didnt hold , how the hell can one counter that | ||
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KR_4EVR
316 Posts
But to address your question - it comes down to the bad timing for your build order and mismicro from your stalkers. Learn the exact timings you need for all buildings and probes by watching the PiGDaily VODs backlog. In all-ins, the player with better micro wins 75% of the time. | ||
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mynamex
6 Posts
On March 24 2018 09:52 KR_4EVR wrote: This post belongs in a more appropriate corner of TL.net. But to address your question - it comes down to the bad timing for your build order and mismicro from your stalkers. Learn the exact timings you need for all buildings and probes by watching the PiGDaily VODs backlog. In all-ins, the player with better micro wins 75% of the time. i was told that this the place for this kinda of posts you didnt help me like at all , i had like 2 sb , and i sniped few marines , yet he just a click me and i lost | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
You're a bit slow in putting down your first Gateway, not the reason you lost, but it should be placed down you have exactly 150 minerals, the Probe shouldn't be moving out to place it when you 150 minerals, he should be in position. Just a good habit to get into. 1:22 - You scout his base, he has no gas, nothing in his base, so it a Bunker Rush or Marine all-in for certain. Unfortunately, you are messing around with your scouting Probe and have 340 minerals banked so your Cybercore is late as it should be going down now (again the Probe should be there on time planting it as the Gateway finishes) and you should have had a second Gateway coming at this time. Every second counts against a cheese like this. 1:32 - Cybercore finally goes down. That is 10 seconds late. You also put down a second gas, you don't need it. You're better off with third Gateway and another Pylon to power those Gates, especially since you're at 20/23 supply. You also end up sending the scouting Probe back, I would keep it there to watch for a transition. If you hold him easily you can steal both gasses and completely ruin any chance of a transition. 2:02 - Your gate has been finished for 40 seconds and you didn't build a Zealot. You have 100 extra minerals too. You could have done your build exactly the same and had a Zealot, and you can always cancel the Zealot if you want to get a Nexus or something else if it isn't cheese you are facing. Every second counts. 2:08 - Cyber finishes and you don't start Warp Gate even though you have the resources to after building two Stalkers. Warp Gate reduces the cooldown on your Gateways and allows you to counter attack a lot easier, you should have it. 2:36 - Your Stalkers finish so you have 2 Stalkers versus 6 Marines right now. Could have been 1 Zealot and two Stalkers versus 6 Marines. Either way, you win that fight so you have a lead at the moment and should move out immediately with the Stalkers when they finish and use their range to hit the Marines and then retreat to allow your shields to recharge. Rinse and repeat and you can kill Marines without losing anything. 2:38 - You build two shield batteries instead of getting 2 more Stalkers. That is a mistake, you need firepower right now. You do okay building Stalkers consistently from this point forward. 3:58 - Your micro isn't great, you've lost 2 Stalkers and only killed 5 Marines. You're losing Stalkers to Marines trying to pick them off so it is something to work on. You would have supply blocked yourself at this time too if you weren't losing Stalkers. You're beginning to bank gas now too, the second gas is unnecessary. 4:08 - A Twilight Council comes down. You absolutely do not need a Twilight Council. You can run this garbage over with a straight 4 Gate. You're spending resources that should be units on tech when your opponent is forced to attack any second by virtue of his build choice. I'm not liking your unit composition. Stalkers are fine if you have excellent micro. But you have the gas for a Sentry and Guardian Shield is excellent versus Marines (reduces their damage by 33%). Also a few Zealots are always handy to tank, and otherwise you should be going for Adepts. They build faster and are cheaper than Stalkers and deal with Marines very well. 4:14 - Your opponent begins his attack with 21 Marines. You have 7 Stalkers. Let's add the units both sides lost during the harrass and that free Zealot you could have had. Its now 9 Stalkers and a Zealot versus 26 Marines. You could have squeezed out at least another Stalkers too with a 4th Gate, not building a Twilight, and a faster Warpgate. That is 10 Stalkers and a Zealot. 4:20 - This attack kills you. Warpgate finishes at this time, it could have finished much sooner if the Cyber was on time and you began Warp Gate on time, meaning another round of units would be out to help you.The Twilight Council is only 1/3rd of the way done, it is a complete waste. So you lost because you didn't have enough units, didn't have the right units for your micro, weren't on time with Tech (Cyber and Warpgate both late) and wasted a lot of resources on unnecessary stuff (2nd gas, Twilight Council). Consider the fact he only built Marines all game, and you had all that unnecessary stuff. Your Stalker mis-micro hurt too, but I'd change unit compositions to defeat this anyway. I ran a replay versus the AI to see what I could have at that time after scouting a naked main. I was a bit sloppy here and there but I had 13 Adepts, 1 Sentry and 2 Zealots at 4:14. In the unit tester, that force with Guardian Shield easily defeats the 26 Marines without shield batteries (I had 1 Sentry and 12 Adepts left). I also had 4 Warpgates done, and could pour out reinforcements, with more units coming just seconds after. You can also always pull Probes (and do that before you lose any combat units) versus an all-in like this, especially if he pulls his SCVs. Finally, if you are facing an all-in like this it is wise to get a Sentry for Forcefield too, you can cut his forces in half on the ramp and that is especially important if he pulls SCVs. Here is the replay: https://ufile.io/1emhc See if you can have the same force out at 4:14 to help clean up the delays in your build order. Good luck! | ||
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yubo56
687 Posts
I also feel like sentry is a bit bold of a move if you don't add a second gas (and you don't tell OP when to get the second gas) since you're eating up the gas cost of two stalkers? I'd be afraid of dying waiting for the sentry to accumulate 100 energy, though it's probably also useful for FF on ramp if you're losing ground. The way I try to do my second gas timing is to remember that 1 base supports a 4 gate, so 1 gas supports ~ 2 gates, so you should have your second gas done by the time your third/fourth gates are completing, but not before they're started. I'm not sure whether this is correct, can BronzeKnee or somebody else comment? | ||
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BronzeKnee
United States5217 Posts
In his situation and at his level, I'd just flood my opponent with units. It is really all about macro at the lower levels, he was slow with his buildings, had an extra tech structure and gas and didn't build enough units when his opponent was only building units. The Sentry is incredibly useful. Back in the day, it is all you had to hold early timings, you had to hit those FFs on the ramp or you died. I feel like players today undervalue it, it is very strong in defense. You only need 50 energy for a FF so it begins with one. And you only need 75 for Guardian Shield. | ||
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mynamex
6 Posts
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sOvrn
United States678 Posts
a) you shouldn't be attacking the marines with your stalkers. You should just sit on the high ground patiently and prepare to solely counter his proxy. b) I think you should also start building first gate at your ramp. you want to make it difficult for the marines two climb up. I just started playing random and P is my least played race, but it just so happens that something similar to this happened to me. See the replay : https://sc2replaystats.com/replay/6914088 I used my scouting probe to gas steal to make sure the rush is limited to marines and pretty much survive and rush to colossus. After watching it again, i notice some pretty big mistakes like not getting gates fast enough and forgetting warp gate, and many others im sure but I still manage to hold. I think forge is a strong answer to marine rush and I think getting a fast sentry is important too so you can FF the ramp. It's all about controlling that high ground. EDIT: So funny thing happened, after thinking about this marine all in as toss and writing this post, I happen to play against it again today as my first game of the day. I shut it down so hard the guy rage quit without F10 + N (hehe). https://sc2replaystats.com/replay/6919061 | ||
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yubo56
687 Posts
On March 25 2018 06:52 BronzeKnee wrote: I don't suggest Stalkers unless you can micro them well, I didn't mean to imply that if I did. I was saying you can make the hold with Stalkers, but only if you micro well. In his situation and at his level, I'd just flood my opponent with units. It is really all about macro at the lower levels, he was slow with his buildings, had an extra tech structure and gas and didn't build enough units when his opponent was only building units. The Sentry is incredibly useful. Back in the day, it is all you had to hold early timings, you had to hit those FFs on the ramp or you died. I feel like players today undervalue it, it is very strong in defense. You only need 50 energy for a FF so it begins with one. And you only need 75 for Guardian Shield. Thanks for clarifying, that makes sense  | ||
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