• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 02:56
CEST 08:56
KST 15:56
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview6[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt2: Progenitors8Code S Season 1 - RO12 Group A: Rogue, Percival, Solar, Zoun13[ASL21] Ro8 Preview Pt1: Inheritors16[ASL21] Ro16 Preview Pt2: All Star10
Community News
Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule !7Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple0RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event12Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results12026 GSL Season 1 Qualifiers25
StarCraft 2
General
Code S Season 1 - RO8 Preview Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book Weekly Cups (April 27-May 4): Clem takes triple Blizzard Classic Cup @ BlizzCon 2026 - $100k prize pool Code S Season 1 (2026) - RO12 Results
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) Maestros of The Game 2 announcement and schedule ! GSL Code S Season 1 (2026) RSL Revival: Season 5 - Qualifiers and Main Event
Strategy
Custom Maps
[D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3 [A] Nemrods 1/4 players
External Content
Mutation # 524 Death and Taxes The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 523 Firewall Mutation # 522 Flip My Base
Brood War
General
Quality of life changes in BW that you will like ? Why there arent any 256x256 pro maps? BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ RepMastered™: replay sharing and analyzer site Tulbo's ASL S21 Ro8 Post-Review
Tourneys
[ASL21] Ro8 Day 4 [ASL21] Ro8 Day 3 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates What's the deal with APM & what's its true value Any training maps people recommend?
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Daigo vs Menard Best of 10 OutLive 25 (RTS Game)
Dota 2
The Story of Wings Gaming
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread Five o'clock TL Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread The Letting Off Steam Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread McBoner: A hockey love story Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
streaming software Strange computer issues (software) [G] How to Block Livestream Ads
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
How EEG Data Can Predict Gam…
TrAiDoS
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1815 users

[PBOTW] Zest's Sentry-first Expand Into Phoenix

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
5 CommentsPost a Reply

[PBOTW] Zest's Sentry-first Expand Into Phoenix

Text byTL Strategy
February 16th, 2018 05:23 GMT
An IntroductionZest's Sentry first expand into phoenixBuild ExplanationPhoenix vs PhoenixVODs

Introduction: Now it Gets Real


Hey guys, my name is Gemini and I'm a Grandmaster Protoss player who has been making guides since 2011 on various sites. The Build of the Week is my most popular series of build order guides that I've been making for about three years now on /r/allthingsprotoss. With the help of TeamLiquid.net and Spawning Tool I'm now bringing my guides over to TL as well!

Each write-up includes build order notes, an explanation/analysis of how the build works, and a VOD section so you can check out the source game and how it should go. I'll also include the Spawning Tool link so that you can practice it in game yourself and download the replay of me doing it. I hope you enjoy and be sure to read the whole write-up before asking any questions as I'm sure some of them will be answered in here!

How to use Spawning Tool
Link to the Spawning Tool Build
Link to /r/allthingsprotoss Guide.

It's time to up the difficulty level of some of the builds I'll be featuring. There is in fact more to this game than just macroing up with the most basic units while doing basically nothing else on the map. One of the most rewarding styles to play in PvP are phoenix openers due to their inherent multitask heavy nature, and with PvP having stagnated a bit with the removal of the disruptor, I think it's time to feature a more proactive build. (P)Zest brings a well crafted and versatile opener to the table that meshes very well with a stargate opener. This build that I'll be outlining can be used for any PvP style you wish up until the tech structure is put down, so even if you don't want to go stargate or phoenix, then take note of how Zest opens this game because it's a great way to get an early edge over your opponent: A fast sentry.

[PvP]Zest's Sentry-first Expand Into Phoenix



Build Notes

Sentry first expad into phoenix
14Pylon
16Gate [Chrono Nexus]
17Gas --> Rally probes in
18Gas --> Rally probes in
Chrono Nexus
19Gate --> Scout
@100% Gate --> Cyber
22Pylon
@100% Cyber --> Stalker + Sentry + WG
28Pylon @Natural
28Stargate
28Nexus
282x Stalker
32Shield Battery @Natural
@100% Stargate --> Phoenix (x3-4) [Chrono]
@100 Sentry Energy --> Hallucinated Oracle scout (3:33)
4:00 Robo (Pause before 4th Phoenix)
4:20 2x Gas + Forge --> +1 Attack
52Pylon
@100% Robo --> Immortal (As constant as money allows)
60Pylon
5:20 Twilight Council
65Pylon
Pause @44 Probes
Analyze opponents base --> 3-6x Gate if they're getting ready to attack OR 3rd Nexus w/gates after
@100% Twilight Council --> Charge + Templar Archives
Extra gates whenever affordable



Build Explanation



Before I get into this build I need to note that this is mostly a modification done by me. Since the original replay that had Zest doing this build ended up in a phoenix vs phoenix battle, I was only able to copy the initial steps from him. The rest of the build was formulated from outside research on other stargate openers that I've seen and the overall trends of how this matchup operates as a whole. I'll start off by talking about the phoenix opener and how it naturally transitions and plays, while then talking about phoenix vs phoenix itself separately since it deserves it's own section. I'll also include the original Zest replay along with my own replay executing the listed version so that you can see both.

This build starts off normally just like any other PvP build. You start to wall off the top of your ramp with your first pylon and gateway to keep adepts from shading up while going for double gas behind it. You then get your 2nd gateway and scout with that probe followed by a cyber core right when your first gate finishes. Since this build isn't aggressive in the early stages, there's no reason to save chrono for a double chrono on the gates right away, so Zest chronos again on 18 supply after his 2nd gas goes down. The rest will be saved for phoenix later. Once your cybernetics core finishes you'll be getting one stalker and one sentry. Usually you get either two stalkers or two adepts to scout/pressure or defend/scout for proxies. This variation gets a sentry first which leaves you with a very fast hallucination to be able to scout entirely what the other player is doing. Never feel like you can accurately know when they're going for stargate, DTs, blink, or robo? Well this is your answer. This hallucination scout is guaranteed to see exactly what the other player is doing before it can get to your base. The only things it won't see are a proxy of some sorts but you should know that's happening based off your probe scout so you can choose to alter your first units before that if you wanted. I'll talk about it a little more in the phoenix vs phoenix section, but Zest (and sOs since he did the same thing) hallucinates an oracle instead of a phoenix as a small mindgame.

This hallucination scout can alter how you will follow up with your build so the next steps can vary depending on what you see but this is the general idea and framework of how you should play it out. Once your stargate finishes you'll get three phoenix one after the other and all chronoboosted. If you see that they're going for fast blink with the hallucination then you'll need to get the robo as soon as possible (same for DTs, along with an oracle if you want to be super safe) and cut phoenix production and get extra shield batteries. Considering all things are normal you can afford a Robo at around 4:00 which would use up the gas required for your fourth phoenix. You can choose to make the fourth phoenix a little later if you want or you can just stick to three. If you do three then you can just do all the following steps slightly earlier while sacrificing the extra lift potential that a fourth phoenix gives you. From there you should be getting your natural gasses and a forge around 4:20-4:30 and an Immortal out of the robo to keep you safe vs any fast 2 base stuff they might do. If you see them playing particularly passively then you can skip the immortal for later to get faster tech. The twilight council follows at around 5:20 to start going towards charge and archons.

Once you have two saturated bases (44 probes) it's important to pause for a moment and analyze what the other player is doing. This is a major diversion point for a lot of builds that you'll need to take into account if you want to get the best edge going into the mid game. At this point they could be throwing down a lot of extra gates in preparation for a two base attack or they could have already expanded or gearing to expand. If they only have like four gates with their tech and forge at this time then they're most likely about to expand, in which case you can deny their probe moving out to take that expand as much as possible while you take one yourself. If you see them putting a lot of gates down and getting a larger army compared to yours, then you'll want to delay your 3rd and get more gates and units out yourself.

Regardless of what happens, you'll eventually be getting around eight gates by the time your 3rd is done with chargelot/immortal/archon tech and a forge upgrading to +2 weapons.

Phoenix vs Phoenix



Phoenix vs phoenix is a special beast. With both players opening for a stargate, it's inevitable that at least one will go for a phoenix before or after an oracle. Due to this, the other player must then respond with their own phoenix. It then becomes a nuclear arms race of phoenixes because once someone get behind in phoenix count, they will almost inevitably lose the game due to lifts. The only exception is if the trailing player can make an amazing read on the situation and properly transition out of phoenix before the high phoenix-count player can snowball his advantage. This is where analyzing high level phoenix vs phoenix gets tricky. A lot of what goes into high level phoenix vs phoenix is mindgames and in-depth reads that don't happen at lower levels, even normal GM games. So I'll mention some of the stuff that Zest and sOs do in this example game and why they do them as small additions, but also talk about the overall theme of phoenix vs phoenix as the bigger picture.

Demonstration Replay: Zest vs sOs

The preliminary step of playing phoenix vs phoenix is identifying that it actually IS phoenix vs phoenix and gauging the initial phoenix counts. This is where the fast hallucination scout comes into play. Sending out the oracle instead of a phoenix of your own does a few things: Firstly, it tricks the other player into thinking a very fast oracle is coming their way and might make them pull probes. Secondly, it forces a player who went phoenix first to show their phoenix. They will see that fake oracle and be drawn to it immediately since they see the free win coming straight towards them. Thirdly, if your opponent went oracle first, then it allows you to see that even if they don't send their oracle directly to your base. How do you do that? If you were making phoenixes nonstop since that stargate finished and he has a similarly timed stargate, then he should have the same number of phoenixes as you. If he doesn't, that means he made something else before those phoenix. Zest arrived to sOs' base and saw an oracle in production with no phoenix waiting for him, which means that there is already one oracle out on the map somewhere. After waiting sometime for it to arrive to his base, you'll see him fan out his phoenix in every possible direction to find it since sOs was trying to mindgame him by hiding it in the corner. This then leads us to the four (more like five) primary steps of phoenix vs phoenix that need to be attained.

Step 1: 2 Stargate Production

When you notice that the game will be going into phoenix vs phoenix it's important to put a second stargate down as soon as possible. Like I said, it's an arms race of phoenix so you want to put all resources into getting as many phoenix as possible at the start. Since in the example game sOs was behind in phoenix from the start by opening oracle, he had to immediately throw down his second stargate. Zest had the luxury of waiting a little bit before throwing his down since he knew he already had the phoenix lead off of the hallucination scout. From there you can maintain constant phoenix production off of two stargates while you get your natural gasses up as soon as you can to go into the next step.


Step 1.5: Dark Templar Defense

Since it's very risky to send your phoenix across the map (and follow up hallucination scouts can be easily denied) you often times end up playing phoenix vs phoenix completely in the dark, which is why so many people dislike it. Because of this, there's nothing stopping one player from quickly teching straight into DTs to catch the other phoenix only player off guard. If you can afford the gas, then going for a robo is best obviously but otherwise a forge with cannons will suffice if you really want to commit to staying on phoenix. Going for robo usually indicates that you want to try and transition out of phoenix after a while. This is something that's very difficult to do properly and can easily bite you in the ass if you don't have the proper defenses set when you reveal/the opponent finds out you stopped going phoenix.


Step 2: Phoenix Range

This upgrade is vital for phoenix vs phoenix wars and is the first power spike of the match up outside of trying to out micro with a one phoenix lead. A lot of lower league players I've seen tend to forget about the importance of this upgrade and instead go for a faster third stargate since all they know about phoenix vs phoenix is the arms race. However, going for phoenix range is almost always an instant game winner if you get it before your opponent, so long as you micro properly. Once you have constant phoenix production and can even start to afford to queue phoenix in both of your stargates, you should then save up for a fleet beacon and bank all your chrono for the range upgrade. You might end up behind a phoenix or two or give up your phoenix lead, but the pay off is definitely worth it and a necessary step in phoenix vs phoenix if you aren't going to transition out. This is past the point where the Zest vs sOs game goes because Zest initiated a transition out of it by going into blink and hiding his phoenix in the corner of the map so that he could suicide them for probes when he noticed sOs out of position and then trade them off for as many phoenix as possible so that he could safely stabilize with the amount of blink stalkers he had. Like I said, you can try this if you'd like but it's very difficult to gauge and time properly without you kicking yourself in the ass. **Note**: Whenever possible, be sure to engage on your side of the map underneath a guardian shield and away from their guardian shield if you're attacking. This factors extremely heavily in phoenix vs phoenix since phoenix attack twice per shot.

It's important to be sending out hallucinated phoenix scouts as much as possible and trying to click on their phoenix and checking to see if they have range done by hovering over their attack box on the UI. If you have it and they don't, then go balls to the wall.


Step 3: +1 Air Attack and 3rd Stargate

If you can't abuse the phoenix range timing window then the next potential window is with +1 attack. Again, you should be sending hallucinated phoenix scouts as much as possible to check to see if they have +1 or not. After you went for phoenix range you should have taken a 3rd. You can expand relatively quickly with phoenix vs phoenix since they won't really have anything to contest it so any extra minerals you have should go towards expanding and getting more gas. After that the next thing to go for is +1 attack on your phoenix and a third stargate. Once your third base is saturated then you should make as many stargates as you can afford. Usually like four or five. If you can force a fight while you have +1 and an even phoenix count then you should. You can do this again with +2 attack if you get it fast enough.


Step 4: Mothership and Carrier Transition

The last timing window you can hit with phoenix vs phoenix after a +2 timing is the mothership timing. If you can get your mothership out before they do or before they notice, then you can force an engage while they don't have detection. This can be difficult to hit since they'll most likely have cannons spammed around at this point, but if you can catch them out on the map or find a spot to harass without cannons then you can use this to great advantage. When you're going for your own mothership remember to get an oracle as well so that if they have a mothership that you won't autolose yourself. If you can't win with this then you'll need to transition into carriers, and at that point it's literally just who has more carriers and who shift clicks better. In carrier vs carrier you should never A move and ALWAYS shift click their carriers. You can win carrier vs carrier fights with less carriers if you shift click properly and your opponent doesn't.

Throughout all of this getting at least some gateways up with the remaining minerals you bank to do chargelot/DT harass on any attempted expansions by your opponent and setting up cannon fields around your own expansions is also advised.

I hope that suffices as a crash course to phoenix vs phoenix and how to use a simple sentry first hallucination scout to heavily alter the way an entire game of interactions goes!

VODs



Replay: Zest vs sOs



Thank you all for reading and if you have any questions/comments please leave them below and I'll try to get to all of them!

Brought to you by the TL Strategy Team in collaboration with Overwolf and Spawning Tool.


Facebook Twitter Reddit
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33603 Posts
February 16 2018 05:29 GMT
#2
BONUS EDITION
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1258 Posts
February 16 2018 06:17 GMT
#3
BONUS SLIGHTLY OUDATED EDITION

(Ruptors are returning to PvP again unlike what I mentioned in the beginning but that's ok because phoenix is what you do to combat them)
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
yubo56
Profile Joined May 2014
690 Posts
February 16 2018 16:27 GMT
#4
Do tempest have a role once carriers come out?
Jung Yoon Jong fighting, even after retirement! Feel better soon.
Gemini_19
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1258 Posts
February 17 2018 02:18 GMT
#5
On February 17 2018 01:27 yubo56 wrote:
Do tempest have a role once carriers come out?


Nope, they suck.
@GGemini19 GM Protoss | http://www.twitch.tv/geminisc2 | I <333 HerO & Trap | Check out my Build of the Week series on /r/allthingsprotoss, TL, or Spawning Tool
Socke
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany451 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-02-18 13:21:15
February 18 2018 13:17 GMT
#6
if i recall correctly +1 upgrade does not change phoenix fights in case there are no injured phoenixes. since its usually one big gamedeciding phoenixfight, often +1 is not worth to get. +2 on the other hand does a lot, its tricky.

mothership is big not only for cloak, but also for tanking vs phoenixes.
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
00:00
2026 GSL S1: Ro8 Group B
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 33359
GuemChi 2919
JulyZerg 116
Shinee 79
Movie 53
zelot 26
yabsab 26
Bale 16
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm130
League of Legends
JimRising 701
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K1003
Other Games
summit1g11494
WinterStarcraft550
monkeys_forever296
C9.Mang0283
RuFF_SC252
amsayoshi41
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL19767
Other Games
gamesdonequick2421
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH139
• practicex 54
• Sammyuel 19
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt491
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 4m
RSL Revival
3h 4m
Cure vs Zoun
Clem vs Lambo
WardiTV Invitational
5h 4m
ByuN vs Rogue
Solar vs Ryung
Zoun vs Percival
Cure vs SHIN
BSL
12h 4m
Dewalt vs DragOn
Aether vs Jimin
GSL
1d 1h
Afreeca Starleague
1d 3h
Soma vs Leta
Wardi Open
1d 5h
Monday Night Weeklies
1d 9h
OSC
1d 17h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Light vs Flash
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
4 days
Replay Cast
4 days
RSL Revival
5 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
RSL Revival
6 days
BSL
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S2: W6
WardiTV TLMC #16
Nations Cup 2026

Ongoing

BSL Season 22
ASL Season 21
CSL 2026 SPRING (S20)
IPSL Spring 2026
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 2
Acropolis #4
KK 2v2 League Season 1
BSL 22 Non-Korean Championship
SCTL 2026 Spring
RSL Revival: Season 5
2026 GSL S1
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2

Upcoming

YSL S3
Escore Tournament S2: W7
Escore Tournament S2: W8
CSLAN 4
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Maestros of the Game 2
2026 GSL S2
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026: Closed Qualifier
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.