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Here is a link to my SC2 Replays profile. Which shows this seasons history of playing games.
SC2 Replays Profile
Replays
I find that I feel lost or convoluted once I hit the mid game stage, and have no clear direction of what I should 'do next?'. I know that I am not scouting enough at key points. And I am working on this every game. This much I can easily ascertain from my replays, as well as just what I am feeling during the match.
But my question would be, instead of waiting for them to attack me. How can I improve on my aggression? I know it's such a vague question, but I am unsure of how to phrase it.
If I win the match-up it's simply because I out macro'ed my opponent, as I feel like my general droning has improved a lot this season.
I tend to notice the longer I let games go for, the more likely it is I tend to lose the game. I am simply not harrassing/scouting enough.
Sorry for such a long question/or lack thereof. I hope this makes sense. :/
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What kind of aggression do you want to improve? Low commital harrass to give you a lead slowly over time, or a full blown all in aggression where you need to get some damage done?
One thing you can do vs protoss is set up a 8 ling drop every game and move it in when they move out with units. It's really cheap, it only cost 25 mins / 25 gas to morph an overlord into a drop lord.
Also, you were probably going to make the evo chamber + lings + overlord to begin with, so the cost of these really isn't a factor.
You can have the drop ready to go in their base as soon as 4-5 mins without cutting your economy that much.
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On December 21 2017 08:39 AkashSky wrote:
What kind of aggression do you want to improve? Low commital harrass to give you a lead slowly over time, or a full blown all in aggression where you need to get some damage done?
One thing you can do vs protoss is set up a 8 ling drop every game and move it in when they move out with units. It's really cheap, it only cost 25 mins / 25 gas to morph an overlord into a drop lord.
Also, you were probably going to make the evo chamber + lings + overlord to begin with, so the cost of these really isn't a factor.
You can have the drop ready to go in their base as soon as 4-5 mins without cutting your economy that much.
I'd probably be more inclined to focus on timing harassment to allow me to expand and safely macro. As much as I like the all-ins, I feel like you neglect other parts of the game by solely focusing on the one type of playstyle.
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I've actually been doing some thinking about this, as for a long time I've wanted to emulate that feel of "dangerous" Zerg. In the WoL campaign it feels like Zerg have infinite resources, and your goal is to preserve your units, period, rather than "trade well"...because they win any trade.
So what does this style look like?
- suicide or bad trades aren't off the table, and in fact are encouraged
- the focus should be on doing damage, not unit preservation
- while unit preservation isn't a priority, making the units "cost dear" perhaps should be. Maybe it's not important if your roaches or whatever survive, but it's always good if they have a big impact.
The other thing to factor in is Zerg's ridiculous efficiency in expanding. Full saturation of an expo can happen in the blink of an eye.
So what I've come around to is:
- a lot of baneling usage. Bane drops, burrowed banes, speedbanes, you name it
- much more roach usage than I used to do. Roaches, like banes, are often not efficient---but a) if you have a million of them, they don't need to be, and b) if you throw them away at an opponent to keep them down, giving you breathing room w/which to expand (at which you're super-efficient), then they end up being efficient, just in a different way
- more hydra usage, for the same reasons as above
- losing more units, making more units, and expanding more: Basically I've been playing more aggressively and losing a lot of units...while also expanding. It feels good; it feels Zergy. The other nice thing is that the other "feel" of Zerg I've been trying to capture is "Lab experiment gets out of control," and expanding a lot really hits that note
- focusing more on low-tech units: I think temperamentally I'm better suited for Protoss, always hating to lose a unit, wanting the "perfect" counter, etc. With this style I need festors/vipers/SH less than I used to
- more focus on mobility: Being ok with losing units has meant that drops/Nydus feel stronger. It's only "all-in" if I don't have the bank/larva/bases for another bazillion units ready.
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Is it only a certain matchup? or is this an all encompassing thing?
I generally open up with +1 attack lings vs toss and terran and then drop them.
17 hatch
17 gas
17 pool
at 24 vespene make an evo chamber
first 100 gas goes to melee upgrades (or range if you like)
drone
second 100 gas ling speed
against terran at this point the reaper should arrive micro and use queens to defend
( this part is optional and depends on the map)
since you have the evo you can morph an overlord to drop, so you can elevator drop or you can get overlord speed if you'd like with the next 100 gas. This delays your lair but allows more scouting if you do this build tight enough your ling speed +1 attack and overlord speed will finish at pretty much the same time.
Against terran or toss the general follow up I go is baneling nest when i move out and spire, why?
Muta ling is a really fast and flexible unit comp that allows for you to be aggressive in the mid game against all races, it forces your opponent to react to you and make unit comps to counter the mutalisk. Plus this enables you to keep them on their side of the map establish drop resistance or warp prisms. The plus one melee upgrade gives zerglings a 20% damage increase. Thats huge, if you do run by's or get in a mineral line or engage you have an advantage with your upgrades as long as you keep up on them. This play also lends itself well to ultra transitions or broodlords. Your upgrades help the broodlings ultras and lings to scale as the game goes longer.
You said you want that dangerous appeal, you have drops upgrades and speed with this build. Mind you if you are fighting a mech army i recommend that you play accordingly be aggressive with drops and try to delay the push and punish move outs. and if you see protoss going air, going corrupters is available to you.
Protoss archon or adept pushes use spines and if you went the range upgrade you can use lurkers or hydras fairly easily. Still, drops are really effective vs protoss and if you went spire and he didn't go stargate you can drain the shield batteries with your lings before your mutas hit him.
Against blink builds your plus 1 lings will be pretty effective for damage since stalkers auto aim air units and if you get upgrades on your air such as air attack, if they manage to stay alive and go for a carrier transition you will already have an edge going into the air fight with your plus attack'd corrupters doing much more damage to fledgling carrier fleets.
This build also works in ZvZ most zerg dont get the melee upgrades and generally go for range upgrades and rely on ling/bling to stay alive till the roaches come out. For the most part this works but the 20% aforementioned damage boost mentioned earlier is huge here. If it is a zerg going spire he is gonna find that in the muta ling clashes his ground troops get demolished and he has to defend with the mutas at home. Even if he has an initial bigger muta ball he can't use it without getting his drones annihilated. Ling upgrades allow you to defend with slightly less which allows you to get ahead in larva management and economy overall. But be warned bane all ins WILL KILL YOU so scout and get baneling nest if you feel grease is coming make sure to block ramp with queens. Sacking a base isn't the end of the game and for the most part your opponents usually make to many drones and when the upgraded lings and banes come in he can just die.
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On December 21 2017 09:51 c_a_l_m wrote:
I've actually been doing some thinking about this, as for a long time I've wanted to emulate that feel of "dangerous" Zerg. In the WoL campaign it feels like Zerg have infinite resources, and your goal is to preserve your units, period, rather than "trade well"...because they win any trade.
So what does this style look like?
- suicide or bad trades aren't off the table, and in fact are encouraged
- the focus should be on doing damage, not unit preservation
- while unit preservation isn't a priority, making the units "cost dear" perhaps should be. Maybe it's not important if your roaches or whatever survive, but it's always good if they have a big impact.
I think that has some solid merit too it. Aggressive drops, and fly by's. Baneling busts, and overall just constant snipes.
On December 21 2017 09:51 c_a_l_m wrote:The other thing to factor in is Zerg's ridiculous efficiency in expanding. Full saturation of an expo can happen in the blink of an eye.
So what I've come around to is:
- a lot of baneling usage. Bane drops, burrowed banes, speedbanes, you name it
- much more roach usage than I used to do. Roaches, like banes, are often not efficient---but a) if you have a million of them, they don't need to be, and b) if you throw them away at an opponent to keep them down, giving you breathing room w/which to expand (at which you're super-efficient), then they end up being efficient, just in a different way
- more hydra usage, for the same reasons as above
- losing more units, making more units, and expanding more: Basically I've been playing more aggressively and losing a lot of units...while also expanding. It feels good; it feels Zergy. The other nice thing is that the other "feel" of Zerg I've been trying to capture is "Lab experiment gets out of control," and expanding a lot really hits that note
- focusing more on low-tech units: I think temperamentally I'm better suited for Protoss, always hating to lose a unit, wanting the "perfect" counter, etc. With this style I need festors/vipers/SH less than I used to
- more focus on mobility: Being ok with losing units has meant that drops/Nydus feel stronger. It's only "all-in" if I don't have the bank/larva/bases for another bazillion units ready.
Cheers for this, you make it sound so easy. So I suppose I just need to get cracking and start zerging, more... zergier?
On December 21 2017 19:38 Shakattak wrote:
Is it only a certain matchup? or is this an all encompassing thing?
I'd say all in encompassing. I try to get my third expansion by ~3:00 minutes, and have full saturation by the 6 minute mark.
17 Hatchery
18 Extractor
17 Spawning Pool
19 Overlord
20
2x Queens
2x Zerglings
Metabolic Boost
Third Hatchery (2:45-3:15)
Overlord speed + Third queen
Drone drone drone
On December 21 2017 19:38 Shakattak wrote:I generally open up with +1 attack lings vs toss and terran and then drop them.
17 hatch
17 gas
17 pool
at 24 vespene make an evo chamber
first 100 gas goes to melee upgrades (or range if you like)
drone
second 100 gas ling speed
against terran at this point the reaper should arrive micro and use queens to defend
( this part is optional and depends on the map)
since you have the evo you can morph an overlord to drop, so you can elevator drop or you can get overlord speed if you'd like with the next 100 gas. This delays your lair but allows more scouting if you do this build tight enough your ling speed +1 attack and overlord speed will finish at pretty much the same time.
Against terran or toss the general follow up I go is baneling nest when i move out and spire, why?
Muta ling is a really fast and flexible unit comp that allows for you to be aggressive in the mid game against all races, it forces your opponent to react to you and make unit comps to counter the mutalisk. Plus this enables you to keep them on their side of the map establish drop resistance or warp prisms. The plus one melee upgrade gives zerglings a 20% damage increase. Thats huge, if you do run by's or get in a mineral line or engage you have an advantage with your upgrades as long as you keep up on them. This play also lends itself well to ultra transitions or broodlords. Your upgrades help the broodlings ultras and lings to scale as the game goes longer.
You said you want that dangerous appeal, you have drops upgrades and speed with this build. Mind you if you are fighting a mech army i recommend that you play accordingly be aggressive with drops and try to delay the push and punish move outs. and if you see protoss going air, going corrupters is available to you.
Protoss archon or adept pushes use spines and if you went the range upgrade you can use lurkers or hydras fairly easily. Still, drops are really effective vs protoss and if you went spire and he didn't go stargate you can drain the shield batteries with your lings before your mutas hit him.
Against blink builds your plus 1 lings will be pretty effective for damage since stalkers auto aim air units and if you get upgrades on your air such as air attack, if they manage to stay alive and go for a carrier transition you will already have an edge going into the air fight with your plus attack'd corrupters doing much more damage to fledgling carrier fleets.
This build also works in ZvZ most zerg dont get the melee upgrades and generally go for range upgrades and rely on ling/bling to stay alive till the roaches come out. For the most part this works but the 20% aforementioned damage boost mentioned earlier is huge here. If it is a zerg going spire he is gonna find that in the muta ling clashes his ground troops get demolished and he has to defend with the mutas at home. Even if he has an initial bigger muta ball he can't use it without getting his drones annihilated. Ling upgrades allow you to defend with slightly less which allows you to get ahead in larva management and economy overall. But be warned bane all ins WILL KILL YOU so scout and get baneling nest if you feel grease is coming make sure to block ramp with queens. Sacking a base isn't the end of the game and for the most part your opponents usually make to many drones and when the upgraded lings and banes come in he can just die.
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The rest is solid advice, and I will try to work on my OL drops, I think it would really alter the way I am playing and take me to the next league.
Thank you both for the reply!
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The best advice I can give you is to watch pros replay and learn from them. Not only do you know how to execute aggressive plays but it will give you an idea on what to do in the mid game.
For my ranked games, most of the times, they are macro plays. Not much aggression until i get my second expand up.
Once in a while, I will play a bunch of unranked games and just practice early aggression. It can be 14 pool/14 gas. Or drop plays. Or early +1 melee and mass lings in ZvZ.
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it seems backward but sometimes hydras are better harass units than roaches. roaches can be quite poor for harass due to their overkill, whereas hydra drops or runbys in groups of 4-8 can be very deadly if timed and placed correctly. pro zergs use small groups of hydras very well against vulnerable spots in a mech player's defense, and hydra or hydraling drops are deadly against a spread out protoss as well
obviously this is assuming you are playing a relatively long macro game. if you're being heavily aggressive on 1 or 2 base saturation you're very committed due to larva and have to do crippling damage, there's no playstyle that gets around that
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There's nothing complicated at the gold league level. To get to platinum, just be more efficient with your mechanics. Something simple like roach/hydra/viper is perfectly fine and easy to execute. There's no reason to get crazy with banelings or ling drops. Harassment is what you start doing once you get good at doing everything else correctly. Focus on how you're using your hotkeys. What are some things you're doing with your mouse that could be done with your keyboard? Are you hitting 70 workers quickly? Are you getting to hive tech quickly? Are you avoiding supply blocks and spending your money? Are your upgrades starting immediately after the previous upgrades finish? Are you waiting for until you max out or an upgrade finishes before moving out? Are you getting good surrounds during engagements? Are you maintaining constant creep spread? Are you injecting? Focus on fundamentals; not harassment.
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>Cheers for this, you make it sound so easy. So I suppose I just need to get cracking and start zerging, more... zergier?
Just wanted to share some thoughts, as I don't like leaving the former ones...incomplete.
- Map control and momentum are really, really big deals in this style. The reason is because the high aggression is powered by and requires a voracious economy. In turn, the high aggression is used to protect and distract from that economy
- the high greed inherent to attacking + producing + expanding makes you very vulnerable to DT's/drops/etc. You manage it as well as you can. Two caveats to that though: I'm attempting to describe the ideal, as in, what we would do if we could, and second: the high aggression sometimes dissuades people from dropping as they have a hard time feeling safe with how willing you seem to "throw units away" for the sake of aggression
- Just because your units die, doesn't mean you can't exercise judgment, nuance, and skill in unit selection and positioning. Indeed, selecting units for their effect on the momentum/macro situation is an important part of this style. In general, banelings and lings speed a fight up, and roaches slow it down. Hydras can go either way, and flanking/tunneling/speed roaches can speed it up as well.
- Roaches are very liable to be inefficient in larger fights, but can benefit from using drops/nydus/creep to find smaller fights on the side, or tanking for any of: hydras, infestors, banes, lurkers
- Roaches are also good for breaking momentum, in a slower/more durable way than banes. Basically: it takes time to kill them---time you can use to mine more, and build more units
- Obviously this is a less purely "reactive" way to play Zerg than standard, though it's related. The standard approach is: make enough units to defend, and put the rest into drones. This is a good way to get a commanding economy, but neglects to explain what to do once you've achieved it. The answer is to get a bank, pick a big fight, and then win on the remax. This more aggressive style could be described as "standard in miniature" in that you'll constantly trade/remake units, just way before 200/200.
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17 Hatchery
18 Extractor
17 Spawning Pool
19 Overlord
20
2x Queens
2x Zerglings
Metabolic Boost
Third Hatchery (2:45-3:15)
Overlord speed + Third queen
Drone drone drone
This opening is good as well. and actually you can modify the build of mine to work with this and still be flexible. To get everything timed out mostly you just have to make sure the evo goes up. Most of what you do thats considered standard such as the 2xling and double queen are still part of it you'll find that your overall build isn't going to deviate that much. For the most part you are choosing rather early what kind of game you'll be playing. Try my build out and utilize drops it really does lend itself to aggressive play and using lings all game isn't a bad thing to do. Cheap, high dps and overall utility is high. Transitioning into hydra ling or lurker ling without going mutas isn't out of the question i just prefer mutas because of my control and overall speed.
- Roaches are very liable to be inefficient in larger fights, but can benefit from using drops/nydus/creep to find smaller fights on the side, or tanking for any of: hydras, infestors, banes, lurkers
- Roaches are also good for breaking momentum, in a slower/more durable way than banes. Basically: it takes time to kill them---time you can use to mine more, and build more units
- Obviously this is a less purely "reactive" way to play Zerg than standard, though it's related. The standard approach is: make enough units to defend, and put the rest into drones. This is a good way to get a commanding economy, but neglects to explain what to do once you've achieved it. The answer is to get a bank, pick a big fight, and then win on the remax. This more aggressive style could be described as "standard in miniature" in that you'll constantly trade/remake units, just way before 200/200.
The two roach points mentioned are important, during some battles in the midgame your army doesn't win straight up. That where timing pushes come in that hit before tech, usually your army cannot win conventionally i.e Immortal stalker sentry zealot vs Roach ling. Its important to use your army for delaying a timing push before your hydras or other tech pops keeping your opponent from being in your territory is crucial to zerg. Lurkers take awhile to come out and they are the only 2.5 unit that works at a range that can punish pushes. Until you get that you are reliant on spines and favorable engages. Roaches though not always effective in straight up fights with tech units are really good split into smaller groups. Their durability and decent damage allow them to be a huge nuisance they dont have to kill your opponent only buy time for you to get situated and react to the tech.
In response to the third point, and mostly as an addition to the last sentence. Playing aggro zerg is already having a plan on what you are using your economy for. What kind of income you go for and when to achieve it, is already in your game plan, instead of waiting for the opponent to dictate what you are going to do. Having a plan is important and incredibly crucial to how you play proactive zerg.
Benefits to playing aggressive is your are sometimes less vulnerable to hidden tech since when they get tech they show it, usually because they generally produce it to counter the units used to attack them. As you are engaging and trading you have an idea what they are making and can preemptively counter some players. This is because you make them play your game, instead of reacting and playing theirs.
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On December 22 2017 10:56 brickrd wrote:
it seems backward but sometimes hydras are better harass units than roaches. roaches can be quite poor for harass due to their overkill, whereas hydra drops or runbys in groups of 4-8 can be very deadly if timed and placed correctly. pro zergs use small groups of hydras very well against vulnerable spots in a mech player's defense, and hydra or hydraling drops are deadly against a spread out protoss as well
obviously this is assuming you are playing a relatively long macro game. if you're being heavily aggressive on 1 or 2 base saturation you're very committed due to larva and have to do crippling damage, there's no playstyle that gets around that
Not backwards at all, think of them as marines and used in mineral lines can absolutely shred small groups of units and annihilate workers.
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Thank you for all the replies.
I have been trying to incorporate bits and pieces of the advice from the thread. So far it's getting a little bit more crispy.
So thanks again, I'll post back a bit later with a couple more replays. 
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EPT
