EPTI'm not saying cc first is bad, I think its actually great, just that this mindset can get you into some trouble
[G] CC First, Or Die Trying - Page 2
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biology]major
United States2253 Posts
I'm not saying cc first is bad, I think its actually great, just that this mindset can get you into some trouble | ||
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WiggyB
United Kingdom103 Posts
On December 13 2013 06:45 Qwyn wrote: I like this a lot. CC first is a really sexy build. If you don't go hellions against Zerg though....gulp. If I saw you didn't you would get abused like fuck. Yeah, but this build isn't for super high level play. I personally am going to use this build get my mechanics back to where they should be. I'm hitting the ladder really hard soon when I get back . And I'm not stopping till at least plat. But diamond would be cool And it's not too difficult to switch it up a bit. CC first, rax and then gas. Then factory, reactor on barracks. Perform the old switcheroo. And bam! CC first into reactor hellions. And honestly, at bronze, silver gold League (I go up and down a lot due to long periods away at work) I rarely come across early aggression from zergs. Normally holding back till they get mutas out. It's protoss you have to worry about. Those guys are cheesy as fuck! Lol | ||
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weikor
Austria580 Posts
lets say on a 2p map you see no hatch\pool\rax on small maps you might be able to change your build by not making a cc and 3 barracks however on any 4p map you have a high chance of not seeing that. this means you should be able to blindly defend or you shoudnt be doing this combibed with the fact that a) one scv is 10% of your income at 10 b), proxy rushes are near non existant vs terran (13 Rax counters them all) c) you dont see anything vital anyway d) you go 3 rax before gas, one of the least greedy followups, if you saw cheese what would you do differently? e) good players hide what they're doing anyway d) that missing scv might equal to 2 vital marines earlier i would scout at maybe 15, or even when the barracks /cc completes . also i think 8\8\8 reaper counters this super hard vs t a super safe yet greedier build than your opponent is 13 rax - 16gas - Cc this will have a viking, turrets and widow mines ready. as well as the option of quickly getting siege tanks. A one base tank push is super hard to hold wih cc first | ||
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Qwyn
United States2779 Posts
On December 13 2013 11:58 biology]major wrote: doing 1 build every game through every matchup will only hurt you in the long run. Your mechanics will be tied to this build, rather than being able to be mechanically proficient in any situation. I used to do these kinds of things because the aspect of having my own style really appealed to me. However as I did cc first or 1 rax fe EVERY game for thousands, I quickly realized that if I had practiced many builds to perfection, rather than doing the same monotonous routine every game I could have enjoyed the game more and become better faster. I'm not saying cc first is bad, I think its actually great, just that this mindset can get you into some trouble I really don't understand the point you're trying to make. Is it that practicing multiple builds can be good? No one is disputing that. But as far as mechanics go - you can hone your mechanics independently of a build. Builds take practice, sure but there's a lot of situations where players do the same things every single game. StarCraft is a game of "monotonous routines." It's getting to the convergence points in the game - and then beyond that which makes it fun. You are quite well off practicing one build - and if you stagnate - perhaps it's not the build you are using but how you approach the game. You should always be looking for answers -and much like a sword or any other weapon - perhaps it is not the tool you are USING, but how you USE that tool. If you should choose to, say, go without hellions in a TvZ, ask yourself what your build can do that a hellion opener can not - ask yourself the benefits and the drawbacks. To be sure, question the build, that is a lot of the fun of playing this game. And as far as talking about styles - I would never, ever say that the build you use represents your "style." A style is much, much more than the opening build you use to get to a convergence point in the game! And it is much more than your patterns of aggression or your psychological mindset - though that is a very big part of it. Just try to start thinking more in depth about the game (not you in particular, everyone!) And when you think you've gotten deep enough, dig deeper...That's how the most beautiful answers are found. | ||
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FiveOhFirst
2 Posts
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EvilZergling
United States194 Posts
On December 14 2013 00:25 FiveOhFirst wrote: Hey EvilZergling....or should I say PAiN. I saw you posts on the SC2 forums and liked your mindset. I'm gonna try meching for a bit and if that doesn't work ill give CC first a shot. Haha yup that's me. Glad I could help  .It's good to mix it up. | ||
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PXEnTei
United States209 Posts
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shid0x
Korea (South)5014 Posts
I always do cc first or 1rax expo also...screw the cheeses :D But to be honest your build order could use some improvement you ''push'' with 83 supplies @10 min. Also your macro is a bad at some points,while not doing anything you float at 700 minerals. It should be 100 supplies (2 medivac and +1 atk ) at the 10 min mark. But hey that's pretty ok for a gold,keep up the work man ! | ||
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drKobalt
19 Posts
The standard CC opening has the first two barracks builds at 15 and 16 supply. But after conducting some simulations, I get this build as an optimal solution: 10 Supply Depot 13 Command Center 13 2 Barracks 15 Marine 16 2 Orbital Command ... This allows for 3 marines before 4:30, and 5 marines + bunker before 5:00. Two missile turrets by 7:50. Finally 51 SCV, 30 Marines, 5 Marauders, 4 Medivacs, Stimpack, Combat Shield, Infantry Weapons 1 (100 supply) at 9:30. Is there an advantage to building the barracks at 15,16 instead of 13 (2x) ? | ||
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mau5mat
Northern Ireland461 Posts
On April 08 2014 03:47 drKobalt wrote: I am a starcraft student, so please bear with me The standard CC opening has the first two barracks builds at 15 and 16 supply. But after conducting some simulations, I get this build as an optimal solution: 10 Supply Depot 13 Command Center 13 2 Barracks 15 Marine 16 2 Orbital Command ... This allows for 3 marines before 4:30, and 5 marines + bunker before 5:00. Two missile turrets by 7:50. Finally 51 SCV, 30 Marines, 5 Marauders, 4 Medivacs, Stimpack, Combat Shield, Infantry Weapons 1 (100 supply) at 9:30. Is there an advantage to building the barracks at 15,16 instead of 13 (2x) ? It's just sub optimal. If you CC first you go 14 CC, not 13. You are cutting economy to afford 400 + 150 x2 minerals to place all your structures down at 13. That being said, there have been variations, particularly in TvP, where Pros tinker with the Barracks timings, going 14/15 or even 16/17 depending how greedy they want to play. | ||
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xRiotZx
United States105 Posts
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BEARDiaguz
Australia2362 Posts
going 13 cc 13 rax 13 rax puts you down a ton of minerals. You're starting oc's on 16 not 19, so you're down like 3 scvs. If you're worried about early gateway attacks or w/e just don't open cc first (really reaper into 3 rax is probably the best tvp opener atm). opening CC first in tvt is extremely risky. Not just to aforementioned Reaper play but also proxies, and it can be awkward to defend 12 gas play as well. It's ok in tvz though, but I personally prefer opening reaper in that matchup. | ||
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DinoMight
United States3725 Posts
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