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[G] [D] Parting's PvP Proleague Blink Build - Page 2

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Littlesheep
Profile Joined August 2012
Canada217 Posts
May 26 2013 02:59 GMT
#21
I'd like to see some more replays of this build if anyone has, masters or up.
pro toez
Stunergy
Profile Joined July 2012
United States41 Posts
May 26 2013 03:11 GMT
#22
On May 26 2013 11:59 Littlesheep wrote:
I'd like to see some more replays of this build if anyone has, masters or up.

Working on it
Dont Make excuses, make Improvements.
Scarecrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Korea (South)9172 Posts
May 26 2013 04:35 GMT
#23
This build smashed my dt expand yesterday on ladder, immediately stole it. Seems really solid.
Yhamm is the god of predictions
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
May 26 2013 04:36 GMT
#24
On May 26 2013 13:35 Scarecrow wrote:
This build smashed my dt expand yesterday on ladder, immediately stole it. Seems really solid.

Would you mind sharing the replay? Did your opponent just all in after holding off your initial dts?
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
aldochillbro
Profile Joined July 2012
187 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-28 19:27:03
May 28 2013 19:22 GMT
#25
On May 26 2013 10:55 vhapter wrote:
Is it a must to all-in a protoss that goes DT expand as soon as you get observers out (or at least put pressure on him)? I've just tried to play a macro game with this build vs dt expand, but it felt kinda iffy because my opponent was a few probes ahead, but when he took his third earlier his economy went sky high.


Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/337824

Do you guys think this just poor execution and/or macro? Or was it really a bad decision to go for a macro game?

PS: I've been practicing more and more recently in order to get better, but my PvP sucks.

if you do a blink build you pretty much HAVE to put pressure on them and contain(or at least threaten to blink into their base when they decide to move out). that's the entire point of blink in pvp, without it you just put a lot of resources into an extremely weak tech route and not using it's strength., which is quite silly.

edit: what i do against a dt expand is get out 2 obs. 1 goes with my army after i kill the initial dt(s) and the other one stays at home with my msc(you can also leave a stalker if you want). btw, this shouldn't be a build you do at lower levels to try to win games but rather to improve you skills. making sure you can get out a good army behind the blink stalkers is really challenging to do when your opponent is making a lot of robo/stargate units
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
May 28 2013 20:10 GMT
#26
On May 29 2013 04:22 aldochillbro wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 26 2013 10:55 vhapter wrote:
Is it a must to all-in a protoss that goes DT expand as soon as you get observers out (or at least put pressure on him)? I've just tried to play a macro game with this build vs dt expand, but it felt kinda iffy because my opponent was a few probes ahead, but when he took his third earlier his economy went sky high.


Here's the replay: http://drop.sc/337824

Do you guys think this just poor execution and/or macro? Or was it really a bad decision to go for a macro game?

PS: I've been practicing more and more recently in order to get better, but my PvP sucks.

if you do a blink build you pretty much HAVE to put pressure on them and contain(or at least threaten to blink into their base when they decide to move out). that's the entire point of blink in pvp, without it you just put a lot of resources into an extremely weak tech route and not using it's strength., which is quite silly.

edit: what i do against a dt expand is get out 2 obs. 1 goes with my army after i kill the initial dt(s) and the other one stays at home with my msc(you can also leave a stalker if you want). btw, this shouldn't be a build you do at lower levels to try to win games but rather to improve you skills. making sure you can get out a good army behind the blink stalkers is really challenging to do when your opponent is making a lot of robo/stargate units

That makes sense. Pushing with the msc imo is better than leaving it at home to be honest, because time warp maximizes the blink advantage quite a bit imo. Thanks for the help.

Just won a game the other day with blink PvP. My opponent expanded with gateway units only, I blinked into his main and time warped his ramp. As soon as he came up his ramp to defend and used photon overcharge there, I blinked down to his expansion and repositioned. He was getting some immortals, so I contained him with sentry/blink stalker and got double stargate + nexus to make sure his colossus wasn't gonna crush me. The void ray transition worked out pretty well against robo.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
May 28 2013 20:17 GMT
#27
this sort of build was super popular during beta when blink + msc was basically unbeatable. Players getting better at deflecting dt's and lots of maps favoring blink again make this popular now.

The build as shown is a bit rough though, i think it can be smoother.

First of all, I don't get the zealot in this build. The zealot is pretty lousy for pressuring, the problem with a zealot now is that it's usually so slow it dies while baiting out the nexus cannon. When you start doing blink shenanigans you practically don't use the zealot either so i don't see much use in it. It may have been some proleague mindgame trick where zealot first makes your opponent misread you, perhaps what happened in the VOD as flying seemed to be playing for dt's, but for ladder i would recommend cutting it.
If you cut it and go 2 gas before core you can basically just get 30-40 ish gas more and cut ~10 secs off blink. You also don't have a spare gate for as long. I don't get why you would only produce 2 stalkers from the first gate and not 3, you have plenty of time for it as you don't really boost warpgate and you're aggressive timing just gets stronger.
Basically instead of having 5 stalker 1 zealot you can have 6 stalkers even a bit earlier. I like to boost warpgate once and the rest on blink, basically that results in the same blink timing as in your replay but in faster warpgate and more stalkers, not only do i make one stalker more normally, wg also finishes earlier.

I'm not sold this automatically breaks 1 gate FE though, I think a good 1 gate fe into robo can just barely defend if done well but it depends on the map a little bit. For neo planet S and similar maps this is definately my call for best build.

McHawk
Profile Joined March 2013
6 Posts
May 30 2013 17:27 GMT
#28
i can t defend 4gate with this build, wgr is so much delayed, how do you defend against it?
Markwerf
Profile Joined March 2010
Netherlands3728 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-30 22:58:53
May 30 2013 22:58 GMT
#29
On May 31 2013 02:27 McHawk wrote:
i can t defend 4gate with this build, wgr is so much delayed, how do you defend against it?


if you have a feeling that's coming up you can just make sure you have the msc at home and you'll be fine or even go dark shrine instead of blink.
Way it plays out though your msc is likely away and you'll notice the 4 gate too late and you just die. Funnily enough 4 gate actually beats a fair number of strats now because most people play blind and try to get ahead in the tech wars, but the trick is basically just sniffing it out and brining your msc back ASAP.
terrancake
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Sweden30 Posts
May 31 2013 06:13 GMT
#30
On May 31 2013 07:58 Markwerf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 31 2013 02:27 McHawk wrote:
i can t defend 4gate with this build, wgr is so much delayed, how do you defend against it?


if you have a feeling that's coming up you can just make sure you have the msc at home and you'll be fine or even go dark shrine instead of blink.
Way it plays out though your msc is likely away and you'll notice the 4 gate too late and you just die. Funnily enough 4 gate actually beats a fair number of strats now because most people play blind and try to get ahead in the tech wars, but the trick is basically just sniffing it out and brining your msc back ASAP.


I repectfully disagree, hopefully you can prove me wrong I'm always looking to learn.
I do not possess psychic abilities and I don't believe in playing on just feelings.
If you send you MSC to your opponents base, his 4 gate will be weaker. He either has to pull his probes or warp in units at home to defend. Either way it's pretty good for you.

4 gates and 11 gate into 3 gate is tricky to hold with this build if it is played exactly like in the OP but not as hard if you 13 scout.
If you see lots of chrono and only 1 gas or lots of chrono and 2 gas with 2 dudes mining from each?
Skip second stalker, get sentry, chrono warp gate once or twice. Still send your MSC to scout and be agressive though.

Gently scout around with first stalker and zealot. See probe + some units being agressive (1z 2s)?
Delay blink, get second sentry. At the first warp in you should have figured out if it is a ruse or an actual 4 gate. If it is a 4 gate, keep getting sentries and do the normal 4 gate defence.

Watch Artosis stream next time he plays, he's quite good at the build and manages to survive 4 gates and other gateway pressure.
McHawk
Profile Joined March 2013
6 Posts
May 31 2013 15:56 GMT
#31
thanks, i ll try this out, it seems very smart theoretically.
vhapter
Profile Joined May 2010
Brazil677 Posts
June 02 2013 15:44 GMT
#32
I've just noticed Parting's macro in this build is NOT as tight as it could be.

Look at his income during the push. It's a bit too high for such an aggressive build. I've just tested this and my conclusion is that he should have started his third stalker right after he started blink research. So basically, you should start your third stalker and only then build your fourth pylon at 33 supply instead of 31. That's one less stalker Parting didn't get because his build wasn't as tight as it could have been.
To live is to fight, to fight is to live!
NihilisticGod
Profile Joined March 2011
Northern Ireland174 Posts
June 02 2013 22:52 GMT
#33
Thanks for the strat guide! Always fun to try these things out
Too weird to live... too rare to die.
Xahhk
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada540 Posts
June 06 2013 00:51 GMT
#34
If you were going for twilight how does the 4 gate 'solution' stand to reason?

What will be your tech advantage if you have nothing but blink researching but far away from being completed? You will also not have your gateways completed until 6:25 or so.
Stunergy
Profile Joined July 2012
United States41 Posts
June 06 2013 01:15 GMT
#35
When you scout your op, you have to decide right away what to use your chrono boost on, you will have plenty of energy...You can decided to use it against warpgate, tech or on more units if you need too. Against aggresive builds, you will die if you chrono your blink.

BTW sorry for all who are waiting on replays, as I just started a new full type position. I haven't had much time to play SC2, but i will devote time friday-sunday this week to make the guide more complete. Thanks.
Dont Make excuses, make Improvements.
MeLo
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia192 Posts
June 11 2013 13:23 GMT
#36
I need help playing against Stargate play with this build

When do you go in for the kill?

After the second warp in? Straight away? Do you force a cannon and then blink into the main? What?
EscapingJail
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
United States212 Posts
June 24 2013 00:25 GMT
#37
Thanks for this, very well written.
Memento Mori
shoooryuken
Profile Joined May 2011
France14 Posts
September 05 2013 19:43 GMT
#38
Do you have more et new replay?
LastLemming
Profile Joined June 2011
United States38 Posts
September 10 2013 04:50 GMT
#39
I have been playing in the top 100 gm this season and use this for every pvp. I think it is a very strong build. Here are a few things you guys might find helpful.

There is a popular sentry first fe into robo and three gates. This build has a very strong time stopping that. If you move out with your first zealot and MSC and go directly to their base you will hit when they have a sentry and a MSC with a stalker or stalker on the way, while your stalker will be moving across the map. You will kill his sentry with your zealot/MSC and deal probe damage with good micro you can even kill his stalker and force his nexus cannon to be at his main to defend your small poke. I find if I don't deal early damage like this I can't break his natural, the immortal count gets too high. I am forced into expanding and playing from behind and then I lose. This poke also can deal game winning damage against greedy dt or stargate builds. Since you have to scout his base anyways to insure he does not go dts I recommend doing this opposed to the MSC scout. The only downside is that against the three stalker MSC opener you will lose at least your zealot. To insure you do not lose more make sure to lead with your zealot so your MSC can retreat if you find three stalkers.

If your scouting is somehow denied make a forge at 5:30 and then a cannon in mineral to prevent losing to dts.

If you scout stargate, good players will make an oracle once they see your being aggressive. Since your units will be across the map if an oracle gets in your base and your gates are on cool down you basically lose. You either need one cannon or 2 stalkers to stop an oracle. No oracle will get in your base before your warp tech finishes so if you scout stargate warp in 2 stalkers and keep then in your mineral line. Since you got the better end of the build orders (blink V stargate) you can afford to be safer.

When you move your zealot across the map if a probe and zealot pass you. Or you see his zealot before the middle of the map (meaning he chronoed it out or went early gate). You are most likely being hit with a warp gate timing. The best thing to do here is go dt instead of blink. The timings work out the same since dt shrine has same gas cost as blink. You use your nexus cannon to hold off. Your dts will be done by the time the nexus cannon is over and then its gg.

Some players will react to blink by staying on 1 base and powering immos. The key here is to set up a sentry contain and expand. You will be very ahead since he needs collo to walk down his ramp. Just be careful of warp prisms in your base, elevator shenanigans with a WP (just keep poking up and blinking out to scout this). And lastly sometimes ppl just randomly run down their ramp hoping to catch you off guard.

One last note is that I have found this build is great against a Terran who goes reaper-> reactor and expo. You send the zealot on a path to avoid the first reaper. It will get to the terrans base as the bunker is being build. If you target the scv the bunker will not get up. Your stream of units (zealot MSC, stalker, stalker) will keep his rine count low and with good micro and a time warp you can force scv pulls to get the bunker up. Then his econ will be damaged and your blink timing should finish him off.

Kinon
Profile Joined October 2012
Romania207 Posts
September 10 2013 07:29 GMT
#40
On September 10 2013 13:50 LastLemming wrote:
I have been playing in the top 100 gm this season and use this for every pvp. I think it is a very strong build. Here are a few things you guys might find helpful.

There is a popular sentry first fe into robo and three gates. This build has a very strong time stopping that. If you move out with your first zealot and MSC and go directly to their base you will hit when they have a sentry and a MSC with a stalker or stalker on the way, while your stalker will be moving across the map. You will kill his sentry with your zealot/MSC and deal probe damage with good micro you can even kill his stalker and force his nexus cannon to be at his main to defend your small poke. I find if I don't deal early damage like this I can't break his natural, the immortal count gets too high. I am forced into expanding and playing from behind and then I lose. This poke also can deal game winning damage against greedy dt or stargate builds. Since you have to scout his base anyways to insure he does not go dts I recommend doing this opposed to the MSC scout. The only downside is that against the three stalker MSC opener you will lose at least your zealot. To insure you do not lose more make sure to lead with your zealot so your MSC can retreat if you find three stalkers.

If your scouting is somehow denied make a forge at 5:30 and then a cannon in mineral to prevent losing to dts.

If you scout stargate, good players will make an oracle once they see your being aggressive. Since your units will be across the map if an oracle gets in your base and your gates are on cool down you basically lose. You either need one cannon or 2 stalkers to stop an oracle. No oracle will get in your base before your warp tech finishes so if you scout stargate warp in 2 stalkers and keep then in your mineral line. Since you got the better end of the build orders (blink V stargate) you can afford to be safer.

When you move your zealot across the map if a probe and zealot pass you. Or you see his zealot before the middle of the map (meaning he chronoed it out or went early gate). You are most likely being hit with a warp gate timing. The best thing to do here is go dt instead of blink. The timings work out the same since dt shrine has same gas cost as blink. You use your nexus cannon to hold off. Your dts will be done by the time the nexus cannon is over and then its gg.

Some players will react to blink by staying on 1 base and powering immos. The key here is to set up a sentry contain and expand. You will be very ahead since he needs collo to walk down his ramp. Just be careful of warp prisms in your base, elevator shenanigans with a WP (just keep poking up and blinking out to scout this). And lastly sometimes ppl just randomly run down their ramp hoping to catch you off guard.

One last note is that I have found this build is great against a Terran who goes reaper-> reactor and expo. You send the zealot on a path to avoid the first reaper. It will get to the terrans base as the bunker is being build. If you target the scv the bunker will not get up. Your stream of units (zealot MSC, stalker, stalker) will keep his rine count low and with good micro and a time warp you can force scv pulls to get the bunker up. Then his econ will be damaged and your blink timing should finish him off.



Very interesting post, could you post some replays against various builds?
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