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[D] "Mech it happens", Lyyna mech thread 2.0

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
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Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-06-12 11:50:18
April 26 2013 14:39 GMT
#1
Hi guys,

As some people may (or may not) know, i'm Lyyna, a french terran playing at high master (some peaks in the top 10 master EU, usually ~~200-400ish master) Lvl on the EU server, playing a defensive mech in like 95% of my games. I am also a MVP on the Starcraft 2 french forums (actually chosen for the very reason of my "good" level as a mech player)

What will be in this thread?
Various mech guides in every MU
Some tips (when there isn't enough things to say for a guide --')
Replays packs
The goal is this thread is basically to sum up all the content i'm going to make about my mech style. I'll try to keep this thread and the french one sync'd
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Guides :

Some "How-to-read-lyyna-guides" tips:
-I can be REALLY vague, especially when talking about BOs. You'll sometimes have to do a bit of search, for builds, for example (but well, efforts are never bad !), and there is several reasons for this (the nature of mech, and the fact that i'm kinda lazy, in short)
-Fucked up english at some points (I'm french.. enough said i guess)
-Don't forgot my average game is 3..4..eh, 55 minutes long, and my prefered allin according to some of my friends is the 6 bases 35 min BC/Ghost/Tank push. Seriously, my play is totally lategame oriented : nearly no timing pushes or counter-attack, basically 0 workers killed before i kill my opponent 5th. This isn't a general mech guide, or a "how to mech like the pros" guide, this is a guide to my own, heavy turtly, totally late-game oriented mech play (even though i've been working a lot lately to make myself better in terms of agressive play, timing attacks, etc)
-As i said, this is a guide to my style. I'm open to criticism and advices but please, don't come saying "blabla this thing will never work". This is neither theory nor "standard pro-like stuff" : i do all of this in my games, and a tons of it since WoL, and i know this is really far from standard play, but it's successful, at least for me, so don't think you'll beat me at this with theoretical discussing.

Essential stuff with mech (Collection of tips, general things, etc) :
+ Show Spoiler +
Lategame-aiming Mech is an extremely experience/game-sense based style. You have to be extremely good at
-Cutting corners
-Judging your opponent army, in order to see if
--There is "too much" : he's allining, he's committing heavy to a specific style and cutting everything else, he's playing too safe...
--Something is missing : when your opponent is getting 5 stargates and chronoboosting carriers like a bio player would make marines, you should realize something is wrong when seeing his main army, like "wait, only 3 immortals and 8 zealots at 20 minutes?"
-Doing the same with his overall infrastructure. He's on 4 bases, he sacrificed a little harass squad and some probes and nothing is working in his main ? Time to look for any hidden production. Your protoss opponent has 1 forge and 1 robo with 6 gas and a heavy chargelot- few immortals army ? You should see if he isn't getting double stargate in the back of his base
All of this may sound obvious, but don't forget : this mech style is basically relying on an extremely slow economy, low production of effective/ high cost units, and uses these units in order to totally annihilate your opponent... which are expensive, and takes a long time to build
I won't be able to help you with that, i'm deeply sorry, especially because this is the reason a tons of people fail with mech, but the only ways to do this is to practice, and watch of bunch of games : your own (this is nearly mandatory for anyone wanting to improve anyway), mine's, pro's..
For anyone wanting to improve that kind of skill, i heavily suggest to read http://www.teamliquid.net/staff/stet_tcl/How_to_Improve_by_Ver.pdf
-This is why the guide can be really inaccurate at some points : you can't make a guide with mech like you would do with bio, telling you to do your 17 marines 3.5 mines 2 médivacs poke at 11:48 and adding 3 rax and 4 fact once you have your 4th because it's the exact amount of production you can support, or to switch on 7 gas to air or exact stuff like this... Mech is all about anticipation and adaptation


Mindset :
-I do often say it on my stream : mech is A LOT about psychological stuff, at least in my own conception. Messing with your opponent's head while keeping a clear mind is really important : making him wonder about potential threats and keeping him in doubt is often better than actually showing threats. Split your army so your opponent has to ask himself what is going on. Show this lone banshee to this 2 base allining protoss so he has to get cannons, while massing them at home hidden. This terran is scanning you and you know his ground army is out of position ? Unsiege your tanks and watch him freak hard and trying to see where you're going to go. Make your opponent uncomfortable, disturb his rythms and tactics, reveal "weaknesses" when he's looking overconfident so he ends up charging in 20 tanks, or be ready to take the lead in the dance and make him think you're stronger than you really are by threatening him and challenging him.
Do not only use your hands, do not use only your army to kill him : THINK. Go inside his head, learn to understand what is going through it (Actually nothing if you're facing a protoss, but that's another subject), understand his goal and his vision of the game, exploit it and manipulate it, while yourself keeping a crystal clear mind. Your army is extremly expensive and requires quite a bit of attention, you need to remain calm and patient and not throw it away

TvT :
-The early game :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Openings :
+ Show Spoiler +
In this matchup, i do use the forgg 15 gas FE into hellion/starport opening sometimes, but my main one is my old WOL opening
-12 rax
-16 gas OC
-CC after second supply on high ground , cut marines at 2 if your opponent goes FE, keep producing them otherwise (might slightly delay the factory) (once my fact/port are up, i'll cut some marines to get my gas units out)
-Fact(TL asap), 2nd gas -> Port
-Go into Marine/Tank/viking, getting a raven and a banshee asap (if there is no cloak banshee, i usually go for 2 vikings -> raven -> banshee), bunker on low ground and put your CC there when you're safe, 2 gas asap
Why this build ? i wanted a build able to get a fast expand, while also having the ability to decently fight 1-1-1 play from my opponent. After some testing, i came up with this build, which has several advantages : slightly delayed 1-1-1 (30-45 sec compared to a standard 13 gas 1-1-1) and expansion (~~30 sec compared to a 1 rax FE), a tank out seconds after most marine/hellion/medivac attacks land in my base, a viking out seconds after a banshee can arrive, raven following soon, 2 scans ready at exactly 6:30 (meaning that i can double scan to fight any cloak banshees, which can come at this exact timing)

--Dafuq is happening
+ Show Spoiler +

I'll not describe a lot what can happens in TvT : Mech, 111 openings, and marine/tank defense are all used in this MU, so there is a lot of pro contents about this. Main threats are :
-2 rax reaper : Pull scv, try to guess where his reapers are going to come (having your first depot near a jumpable cliff can help), trap him with your scv, and micro to death until you can get an hellion, which should be enough to stabilise if you didn't lose too much marines
-Cloaked banshee : If you can't rule out 1 base cloakshee, start to save scans around 6 mins. As soon as the first banshee hit your base, finish your first viking, get your raven and/or turrets (i usually go for the raven).
Into Marine/Tank/Banshee : Well, with my main opening, this is relatively easy to fight. Scout the lack / late 2nd base (Hellion after tank, a single marine/scv, etc.. lots of ways), Put your tanks in position, and fight ! If he's going all-in, mass repair should be enough. If he's going for the contain, constant tanks production, get your raven/banshee out, then reactor' this starport and break out of there slowly. You should have a better position, a better economy (at the very least, 1 base 2 OC, which also gives you double scan, at worst, 2 bases vs 1 + 1 building), your slightly later tech is balanced by the travel time of his units (so you should have the same amount of gas units available at your front door, and marines are basically irrelevant in this situation once you get to 2+ siegetanks)
-Marine/Hellion/Medivac : Try to win some time. Attack him while he's starting his first elevator, scare him, pull / split a few scv, and wait for your first tank, which will be enough usually to stop instantly the attack


-The midgame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Settings
+ Show Spoiler +
So, you're on 2 bases, you have 4 gas mining, and you're alive. Great. At this point, it is time to get, in any order, and depending of what happened in the early game / what you scouted :
-Raven/banshee : no really, having this 2 will often save you. The early raven helps versus banshees, gives you some bonus hp with the turret, and means you'll have an easy air superiority in the midgame. The banshee allows you to exploit this air superiority
-3rd CC : i do often get it after my 1-1-1 infrastructure, before i commit to mech, in order to confuse my opponent
-2 more fact and some addon swap, in order to end up with 2 tl fact, 1 reactor fact and port
-1 or 2 armory. In TvT i like to get double uppgrade if possible, i'll get 1 if there is too much pressure/early game loss. Your ground benefits a lot of attack uppgrades versus everything, and armor versus bio, and your air will INSANELY benefit of every uppgrades (vikings/banshees attacks twice, every terran AA attacks fast/twice/4 times...)

Congratz, you have your midgame infrastructure. You should now be producing 2 hellions / hellbats (this is a matter of preference : i'll often stick to hellions all game long, but sometimes, especially if i do have some gas to spare, i'll get that transformation uppgrades and switch modes. But if you have to chose one, unless you go for medivacs, hellions are better for a defensive style, at least at this point in the game), 2 big mech units, and 2 vikings at a time. Land your third, get your 5th and 6th gas, start to position your hellions for vision, siege your tanks, get a sensor tower, and start your turret ring in your main (I do usually build 3-5 turrets at max range of each other, and if my opponent is going bio, i'll get the range uppgrade, which is basically a +1 attack for turrets, and complete the ring with 1 scv - i'll also get a second sensor tower here). Getting 1-2 thors is extremely good, they can take a lot of damage, and if your opponent is planning some kind of hidden viking(/banshee) midgame switch, these guys and your early raven will help your vikings to do the job (or if you're overwhelmed, they'll steal hold banshees, with some scv/turrets to help).

I'll usually get to 4/5 fact (1 reactor) 2 port (1 reactor) in the midgame, aiming for a composition of hellbats (filler), tanks (8+), thors (1-4, depending of how hard my opponent is yelling "IM GONNA SWITCH TO AIR SOON), ravens (1-2, except if he's for air, then i'll start to constantly produce them), banshees (no air switch, and no thors ? Well, your second starport has to work !), and vikings (If he's going to air, your reactor port should never stop working - if he isn't, make them when you have spare resources, but make sure to gradually increase your count, and keep a few ready). Get a few macro CC if you can't expand asap at your 4th, and on some maps, 1 PF and a couple tanks may be required to hold an hard-to-cover path

--Surviving
---Bio
+ Show Spoiler +
-Get your f**************** turret ring / range uppgrade / sensor tower in main. Seriously. Getting a bunker or a medivac with 8 of your early marines and / or a couple tanks will also help. A pure bio player WILL try to drop you, and he'll try hard. You have to make sure that any medivac trying to get through will be destroyed, and any unit landing will get bursted before there is too much : once there is too much bio units hitting with stim, you'll be forced to pull back some units (points of hellions > Hellbats.. :D) to defend. Be really careful with the minimap, be ready to focus fire with your turrets to reduce as much as possible the number of medivacs, pull scvs with autorepair for your bunker or just to distract his units, and learn to quickly judge if you have to pull some of your main forces
-Do no get into this stupid situation where you have your tanks sieged, and you pull your air force to do... stuff, and suddenly VROOOOOOOOM, 8 full medivacs comes and unload a bunch of marauders on your tanks while a bunch of men in armor charges at you using drugs. Once you have a strong position, make a few turrets, and learn to not panic with your air force : be careful with it, learn to judge his forces and yours, in order to correctly split it, but versus a bio player, NEVER leave your siege line exposed to a drop, because unlike a few banshees for example which will get distracted/killed by a single thor or turret, or will take some times to really do tons of damage, 20+ marauders unloading on your tanks while the main bio army charges will end the game in seconds. Maroderz iz gud
-For this reason and some others, you'll want to stay close to your bases (CCs) : less room for bio forces going behind your army, less possibilities for him to snipe stuff if you retreat because you won't retreat, and less time to reinforce
-Versus bio, your ultime goal in the midgame is to survive and stabilise on 3 bases. Be REALLY careful with your scouting, don't mess with your macro. Getting 5 factories helps a lot, and the second starport can be delayed (however, if he's going heavy on marauders, using your spare gas to get both banshees and ravens helps a lot). They can, should, and WILL be agressive, because they know that once you are maxed with a bunch of gas units, if they didn't trade with you, you'll be able to easily grab your 4th/5th and to push with an invincible mech army for their bioball, without enough time to get mech or air units, and with the ability to instantly remake it, thanks to your 8+ gas.
So you'll often have to max 3 bases, or at least wait until a critical mass of tanks (like, 10+), a good buffer of hellbats, and some vikings with a few ravens/banshees to help. Keep making macro CCs, and as soon as you can, move out to secure a new position when he's out of position with his main army, grab your 4th, put a sensor tower here, and aim for the lategame. Once you get your 4th, it becomes really easy to go into tank/viking/banshee/raven (i mean, with more than 1 or 2 ravens), and if you can keep your critical tank mass with 4+ ravens and a couple banshees, a bio army will never be able to break through your army.

---Bio/Mech
+ Show Spoiler +
-This can be tricky. Most of what i said about bio apply to it, because they'll obviously have medivacs and marines/marauders (A biomech player who is staying on marines for his bio force is going to get wrecked hard), and in order to look super-ultra-gosu-like-MKP, most of them will basically go "pure-bio-with-1-fact-tanks-for-lulz" : versus them, you can play like you would versus bio, and the low tank number is going to get easily cleaned up by your thors / banshees. But you'll also see some of them doing the opposite, trying to get more than 1 fact / base, aiming for a high tank count, usually one or two more ports, basically going for tank/viking with bio support, trying to get the air and tank superiority to contain you and to allow to drop everywhere. Versus that, you'll basically play like versus mech, but you'll need to have your "strong" turret ring with uppgrades, and you'll have to keep your tank lines close to your bases because there is a the risk of a bio force slipping behind your army and going full-zergling (you know, runby) in your economy, which is going to be WAY MORE ANNOYING than hellions... but, to talk about the good points, it's not going to be as scary as bio in direct engagements (tanks are not as good as marauders for this), his ability to engage easily is heavily reduced, and his army isn't as cheap. Also, his bio force is going to be a dead weight as some point if he doesn't find some occasions to trade it

---Mech
+ Show Spoiler +
-Ah, the mech mirror. Some loves it, praising its beautiful strategical play, the display of non-mechanical (ironic, no?) skills, and some.. ok, most, hates it, denouncing the lack of action, due to the fact that it's nothing but "2 big tank lines facing each other until someone's nerves cracks".
You have to be at your best here. You're playing someone who is usually going to be for a way more agressive midgame than you, in terms of composition, moves, expansions.. This can be scary. This isn't like the bio / Bio-mech match up, where you "just" get your 3 bases and then can deal with whatever happens. Especially since the armory uppgrades changes (honestly, winning the uppgrades war, especially in the air, was one of my biggest strength T_T ), you'll be facing someone with the same units, same or just slightly behind uppgrades, etc.. You have to outsmart your opponent, you have to be a step ahead, and, start to fight for gas asap. Your early banshee + raven combo is going to save you here versus 2 / 3 bases hellbat-tank(-viking) players, and it's anyway of the key here to be able to play with your air units. He's wanting to play the air war ? Your banshee will be taking a few tanks out, while your equivalent viking counts, backed up by ravens, keep his vikings busy. He's aiming for the big hellbat-tank-thor bust off 3 bases ? A million of tanks should be waiting for him, your vikings should be ready to flank and lead on his tanks, while your early banshee is waiting for your tanks to destroy his thors.
-You have to master the skills i talked about above, you have to learn how and when to cut corners or adapt to what he's doing and MAY BE DOING to do this full-air transition safely, or when it's time to forget all the subtle stuff and go full viking/thor/mine. Both players will want to optimize their gas usage, and if someone is getting 4 more tanks when both have enough to already hold their positions while the other goes for 5 banshees, already having a couple of ravens to protect versus the low thor number his opponent may make because his supply is already extremely high
-Learn to do the tank/viking leapfrog versus other tanklines. Move slowly, a tank / viking at a time, and gain the position. My style relies a lot on air dominance, why not using it as hard as possible?
-Fucking tons of macro CC to scan-spam his army. Mech vs mech is a position war, and what tool is better than scan for this?



-The lategame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Still (staying) alive
--General
-Time to abuse your ravens guys. PDD rolling at vulnerable areas, turrets to harass, and bunch of missiles to dismantle any attack
---Bio // Bio/Mech
+ Show Spoiler +
-Complete Turret ring on your external bases
-Sensor towers + PF in every single vulnerable area. PFs can be skipped on some maps, but sensor are basically mandatory
-Spread your force, keep a few tanks siege (2-5) at each big attack patch, and put your big squads at an important movement area. Put some pdds with your sieged tanks, and turrets
-Versus bio, be really careful about air switch, with bio/mech, make sure his style (as i talked about earlier) is identified
-Keep a good hellion count to destroy drops, then mass raven/tank, a couple (litterally) banshees/thors (too easy to get picked off by marines and marauders respectively to be massed), and fill with a dozen of vikings to make sure air superiority is yours. At some point you just won't lose units once you hit enough ravens, but don't go too high (once you get 10-15 ravens, cut it, and you can start to think about BCs)

---Mech
+ Show Spoiler +
-A bit trickier, because even if he's slower than bio, his ability to take and hold a position even with a "little" (like 8 tanks with support) army while attacking elsewhere can give you a lot of troubles (assuming he's playing the lategame by going as heavy on tanks as possible in his ground army)
-You have to be way more careful with map control, because 3 tanks with a PF and 2 PDD aren't going to stop a mech army like a bio army for example. Mass CCs is extremely important, in order to scout often his position and make sure you can be sieged before him anywhere he tries a move, to avoid him being able to hit a mining base while your tanks can't approach because he sieged first
-Sacrifice all your hellions, aim for a bunch (15+) of tanks with 4-6 thors, and then aim for the biggest air army you can make : maintain a decent viking count (15 at least), a few banshees (2-6) and MASS ravens. You can't avoid all damage like vs bio when facing mech : obviously tanks don't give a fuck about pdd. You want to get enough ravens to destroy your opponent with missile spam and reduce thors / air damage as hard as possible

---StarWars (Air versus Air)
+ Show Spoiler +
-Reduce your tanks number, a couple at big attack paths and half a dozen with your main ground army should be enough.
-Forget banshees (keep what you have but no more production), goes heavy on thor (hitting 8 thors is gold if you can't get air superiority from the start, they can drain pdd extremely fast, and in alternative fire mode, ignore it and/or destroy BCs kinda well) to pull his seeker missiles or BCs' fire (repaired thors can hold forever versus BCs)/ravens/vikings. Don't go too high on ravens, once you hit ~~15 ravens and 20-25 vikings consider the BC switch or more thor
At this point it is ALL about micro : splitting, running units targeted by missiles into him, and ABUSE the shit out of your own missiles/pdd

--Kill him !
+ Show Spoiler +
-If he's staying on ground for too long (can happens versus every start actually), a battlecruiser switch out of ~~6 ravens can be done : sacrifice your hellions and some scv, take care of drops with your air, and once you got 6+ BCs, you can attack and get his position. "Dance" with your tanks, kill his army and destroy his production (or his economy IF HE WASN'T ABLE TO MAKE A BIG BANG) before he can do anything.
-BC switch or not ? Well, BC is terrible until you can get enough support (15+ ravens and vikings) and a decent number of them (6+) (all of this assuming the opponent is correctly playing the lategame by having a high tech army heavily centered on fighting air), they're basically a perfect target for seeker missiles (the cost of it being low enough to kill BCs just with it), widow mines (too slow...) and thors (remember... TWO Yamatos) and will due to this be inefficient until your support units (or the unit itself) has a high enough count to really acquire a strong firepower dominance (a bit like the tank, in fact)
-There is two obvious ways to finish the game : be able to get to his production after winning a fight, or starving him. Both ways just ends up relying on him unable to produce. It's hard to get "economic wins" (=Your opponent knows he's too low on resources to make a comeback regardless of what happens) in TvT (and i rely a TON on that) lategame because both armies are really strong due to the scan allowing for strong counter-units play, and it's not often that you'll see close fights : usually a player will be able to end up WAYYYY ahead in a big battle with superior positionning/micro, and regardless of the economy of his opponent, he can just camp the production/destroy the tech and win (and at the very least get another position/expand and land 30 mules, replenishing his lower army deficit while his opponent is forced to use a large chunk of his bank)
-How to deny expand ? If he's not using PFs , hellions transforming into hellbats will do a lot of damage. Versus PFs, you have to chose between using your ground or your army : your ground is usually a bigger commitment in terms of position, but using your air versus a well defended PFs means you'll have to use energy on yamato/pdd, and your ground army is going to be vulnerable to an air attack while it tries to hold your positions



-Units :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Early :
+ Show Spoiler +
-Marine : Depends of your build. Your "all-around" early unit, nothing insane to say about them : you want to cut them asap (depends of your opening of course : my marine/Tank opening for example will get marines until the 2nd factory)
-Hellion : If your opening is hellion-centered, your main unit : they should be scouting your opponent, ready at his base to weakens him during the journey towards you if he attacks, ready to punish a greedy move, and at your base to defend drops. Hellions have two big strengths : mobility and splash. Use them
-Tanks : If your poening is going to them, your goal is to keep them alive. You want a tank lead in the midgame, and a couple of well positionned tanks can defend every ground attack. Usually, until you have 3, keep them unsieged in your main, near your ramp , ready to siege to defend a drop or an attack. Once you get more than 3 you can start sieging them at important locations
-Vikings : Always get one, they are ok on the ground in the early game, and will help you deal with any starport based agression
-Raven : Always get one, detector and energy-based defense
-Banshee : Always get one. Use the raven and viking to cover it, while the banshee helped to clean drops or to destroy tanks in order to deny your opponent's position

--Midgame :
+ Show Spoiler +
-Hellion : Your all-around unit. They'll clean drops, they'll scout the surroundings of your army, and they'll die in direct fights
-Hellbats : Hellions are better in nearly every single situation. Hellbats are mainly used if you're facing something repeteadly busting your front, trying to trade as hard as possible, or generally when you don't have to care at all about drops or unseen attacks
-Tank : Your bread and butter. Mass them, keep a couple in main if drop-heavy opponents, use them to hold position
-Thor : Emergency anti-air helper, damage buffer
-Vikings : your primary anti-air
-Ravens : support caster, point defense drone helps versus bio or air, and the missile forces some micro from your opponent.. and can win you a fight (and the game) if unnoticed
-Banshee : a couple here are really useful to exploit air superiority, punish players who are skipping anti-air, and stress him. Also useful to bait marines into your tank's fire

--Lategame :
+ Show Spoiler +
-Hellion / Hellbat : damage buffer and harass tool, become increasingly useless, just keep some hellions if your opponent is harassing heavy with bio
-Tank : they're here to flatten any ground army you may see, and to hold position
-Thor : Big damage buffer, pdd-drainer, helps you reduce losses by taking a tons of damage, and make sure your air army has some kind of advantages
-Viking : Primary anti-air damage dealer, must be massed in the lategame
-Raven : Primary "Let's-win-the-game" tool. Free damage, Easily avoiding damage, what else?
-BattleCruiser : Ultimate weapon when massed with the right support units, main reason i can make comebacks in TvT when not




TvP :
I'll warn you here : Meching in this MU is EXTREMELY hard, especially with defensive play. In WoL, i was able to make a "standard" mech gameplay (basically, a mech play that allowed me to have equal chances to win versus equal opponents, knowing my style and beind prepared for it), but there is no such things in HotS. The extremely frustrating early game leads to a dangerous and unstable midgame, and in the lategame, a smart (aka "able to use his stargates for tempests") protoss will dismantle you with almost no way to win unless you got an huge advantage earlier.
-The early game :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Openings :
+ Show Spoiler +
Even with bio, there is a general consensus amongst terrans that the early game is extremely hard to play, because of the protoss possibilities, even with bio. As in WoL, i won't anyway give you one opening, everyone should try and find one which he likes
Anyway, nowadays openings with mech is basically using variations of 1-1-1 (2 fact play can work, but it's not my style, and this is about my style :D. Some people are also sometimes trying some kind of bio based opening with 2/3 rax, switching later info mech, which can work versus some people, but those who can identify that will instantly crush you with some strong timing attacks), so you should think about how you want to create your own variation
Your main early questions which are going to define your openings are
-Your gas timing ? anywhere between 11 (super fast gas first) and 16 (gas just before marine) are used , depending of what you want to do with it... nogas expands are dead with mech at the moment, mainly because you have no way to do decently with oracle play
-What units do you want ? A reaper ? How many marines? Single/Reactor mine, or even hellions ? An early tank ? Raven ? etc
-Expand timing : the 16 gas build allows you to go CC before fact, the 12 gas allows you do to so with a reaper first, 14 gas allows for a fast reactor after marine and CC after that, etc
-Overall safety : Do you want to have a blind widow mine for an unscouted oracle timing ? Do you want to be able to defend an unscouted msc/stalker poke ? Etc, etc
-Your transition : Are you aiming for the fastest armory possible for an uppgrade rush, in order to unlock some timing attacks ? Do you want to be able to do some kind of strong 2 bases contain ? To be able to get a safe fast third at the cost of your harass ? You have to plan all of this in the early game, especially because of the gas required for that

My openings currently are :
- 1-1 with 2 mines, basically copying my WoL opening getting 2 mines instead of a tank
- 1-1-1 expand with harass play, marines/ 1 mine/ 2 hellions/medivac or cloak banshee (currently the best, imho)
- 15 gas expand, 2 marines reactor CC -> 1-1-1

I always aim for a 1-1-1 infrastructure, with a fast armory. You can go for thors and tanks afterwards, i think currently the 4 thors play from my WoL's build isn't the best way anymore, going for 2 thors or even tanks asap is possible. Not sure if there is a definitive best option here.

I dont want to make the guide "how to scout and react to this and that".. Especially since 1-1-1 after expand openings had (and still has, in a moderate way) success in HotS, it's relatively easy to find resources on how to deal with a specific early game issues : even if they usually go for bio after these openings, the fact is that if sometimes bad happens early game, it'll be before you were able to diverge towards mech. I'll anyway, of course, answer any question on the subject !


--Dafuq is happening
+ Show Spoiler +
Some of the things you HAVE to care about are oracles (have a way to get a turret/mine/6 marines @ 5:20 when scouting oracle !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!), MsC/Stalker/Zeal poke (impossible to defend with some gas first->super fast reactor after fact for example), blink stalkers (Even when scouted, defending some of the hardest-hitting blink play can be hard for some openings)

Oracles (before expand, 2 gas, sometimes proxied with 3rd pylon, or even 2nd pylon, but really common after expand) -> 6 marines / a mine / a turret in mineral line. Marines is annoying because if he comes with an oracle + anything, you'll die. A mine is imho the best option

Blink play (1 base -> no expand by 5:30, unusually high amount of stalkers early game, 2 bases -> High amount of stalkers, aggressive positionning on the map with his stalkers ball and his MsC) -> Retreat on 1 base until you have a good amount of tanks (once you reach 3 tanks, you have enough to hold the attack unless things goes REALLY wrong), get at least one bunker protecting your production/CC/one gas, put your tank behind the bunker, near your CC, so you can pull SCV and surround him if he tries to blink to snipe it. His goal is to pick slowly your tanks, and then abuse his mobility, but if you cant force him to lose a lot to pick your tanks, his attack won't work. For the 2 bases version, if you went for thors : switch to tanks production again, and use your first thor(s) with 10+ scv repairing to win some time

Other annoying early game play is easily fought with micro or, if you feel unsafe, a single bunker for "pressure", and allins are destroyed by marine/tank + bunkers


-The midgame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Settings
+ Show Spoiler +
So, we're around 8-10 minutes, you're on two bases (with some openings, your expand might be finishing right now), having your 1-1-1 making marines/(tank/thor)/air (depends a lot of scouting and your build).
The main variation here is "do i get early cloakshees or not ?". If you do, you'll be able to force the protoss to be careful, get some probes/buildings, and sometimes win the game right now. If you don't, you'll obviously be able to have more gas for other stuff, like a raven and an early armory ( for uppgrades and/or early thors, like i was doing in WoL)

I'm not sure yet on what is the best thing, but anyway i try to have around 10 minutes :
-my armory uppgrading +1 attack if i went tanks, +1 armor if i went thors. Your second uppgrade depends mainly of his composition (zealot heavy, and you go for a lots of hellbats and starport making medivacs, or just want to be "safer" ? armor. Else, attack)
-second factory on the rax' reactor building or finished and making hellbats (Good idea to make 2 hellions first for scouting , especially if you didnt go for banshees),
-rax getting its techlab and preparing to get ghosts
-Get your 3rd CC, 3rd factory (techlab), and your ghost academy depending of scouting. If you went for thors, stop at 4, go for tanks
-Start your turret ring, get +1 range the second you start to see drops or when you bank some gas

You have a choice with your starport :
-Keeping it on techlab, allowing you to get cloak banshees, which adds a TONS of firepower to your army, and ravens, ok in a lots of different situations
-Putting a reactor (usually after 2-4 banshees and a raven), allowing you to get medivacs (make your hellbats CONSIDERABLY beefier, especially if you are facing an immortal/zeal-heavy protoss, and your ghosts, too !) and vikings (help to prevent surprise air switches)
Once you start to get resources (third saturated), you can add a second armory (optional), a second rax and port (add the addon your existing port doesn't have !), ghost cloak and start to get macro CCs

Adding infrastructures at this point won't happens that often : usually, in ultra lategame, you'll add a 3rd (sometimes, on largest maps with bunch of bases, 4th) rax with techlab, aim to have 5-8 fact (1 reactor), and a varying number of starport. Starports is the only thing you're going to really add in midgame, slowly getting up to 3 ( 1 reactor 2 TL) in normal situations, and if he's switching stargates heavily, adding 1 or 2 more (at least 1 more reactor)


--Surviving
+ Show Spoiler +
Surviving during the midgame in TvP is all about scouting and being careful. While your opponent is on the ground, you can aim for the ghost/hellbat/tank/(banshee/medivac) composition, and with good positionning/sim city, easily hold most things. Always keep your hellbats in front, use your ghosts mainly on immortals/archons/HT clump, banshees focusing immortals ( DO NOT STACK THEM IF THERE IS ARCHONS / STORMS ), tanks focusing mainly EMP'd immortals, stalkers, HTs
You have to keep scouting heavily (scan production areas, make a couple hellions sometimes to check for hidden spots on the map etc...), you have a few goals with this
-Find his army, check his composition/uppgrades/etc : with experience, you'll be able to see if he's not having what he's supposed to be, and you'll be able to check in time to spot where he's using it (or if he's not using it in fact and just want to bank and hard switch)
-Find his production to be able to scan after fights and adapt !
-Find his bases


-The lategame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Still (staying) alive
+ Show Spoiler +

--Kill him !
+ Show Spoiler +



-Units :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Early :
+ Show Spoiler +

--Midgame :
+ Show Spoiler +

--Lategame :
+ Show Spoiler +


TvZ :
-The early game :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Openings :
+ Show Spoiler +
Going for mech, there is ONE opening which is better than anything : hellion/banshee. A lot of things can lead to it, your main choices are :
-CC first : obviously, the greediest and most eco-friendly one. You have to be conservative with your first hellions, and scv scout is highly advised !
-Reaper expand : there is a lot of variations of it. It is the standard in TvZ (and TvP as well) currently, giving strong scouting, and a decent economy. The main variation in the build is getting 1 or 2 reaper, and getting 2 marines after the reactor if you go for 1 reaper
-1 rax FE : the old, WoL standard. Not that good anymore, you don't have the scouting of a reaper FE, or the eco of CC first

My standard until 2014 was, since early 2012, my 16 gas expand for a faster factory (and banshee), but now i switched to Flash's version of reaper expand into mech, timings are similar to my old opening ,but instead of getting some marines, you get a reaper that allows to scout your opponent, and still 2 marines to hold your natural versus zergling pressure. The only thing i do not do like him until the 10 minutes mark is that i often do not get cloak, for slightly faster armories/Fact (on the ladder, most zergs are used to seeing cloak asap, and my multitasking is too weak to me to exploit it, so i prefer to play a bit safer, and they also go for early 2/3 bases attack a LOT, and i need my big units for this --')

Explaining early game TvZ and hellion/banshee is a bit redundant at this point, considering how standard it is since 2012. I'll just do a short summary of important stuff :
-Your first 4 hellions HAVE to be used to scouting, and you have to be careful with them. You need to know if there is 20+ speedlings heading towards your natural (and then, make sure your hellions can come back to your base and get parked in your ramp to hold), if he has an early third base, if he stopped to drone... usually, my first two hellions goes for potential third, my second set clear xel'nagas, and once i'm sure the map is cleared, i'll try to poke a bit at the natural, but unless there is an huge opening (like saturated second base with only 1 queen, no lings, and no wall), do not sacrifice them ! You go for a low number of them with this opening and need to be really careful
-Start your natural wall asap after your hellions start to scout, you'll need it if he's going for 2 bases allins. I usually do a Wol-style bunker (near CC/in a corner near ramp, surrounded with depots), matter of personal choice, delay the full wall but means your bunker can't be busted by banelings if when you have your full wall, and easier to surround with scv and repair
-Your first banshee should be sent asap towards the opponent, flying above the closest ground path between you and him. If you see anything dangerous coming (roaches --'), you have to start damaging it on the way to your base. Otherwise, just use it with your hellions to pick creep tumors, and damage/kill queens and some drones. Some zergs are really greedy, and by killing a few queens early, you can end up in a position where a zerg won't have anything but a single queen and a static spore at his third versus 3 banshees

after your first 4 hellions and banshee, get your 3rd CC and more hellions. If you didnt see anything dangerous (like no third by this timing with all gas taken), go for double armory and factories afterwards. The most modern variation of mech gets 2-4 TL starport units (usually 3 banshees or 2 banshees and 1 raven), and then the starport gives its techlab to one factory, while your starting rax makes one for the other, and the starport starts to build vikings while the rax builds a reactor (or sometimes another techlab,but currently vikings are nice to get for vipers or BLs timings).
The order/numbers of 3rd CC/2 armories/2factories is really flexile and can be adapted both to your scouting, and to your personal preference, Goody for example tends to go for a really late 3rd CC and get factories / armories before

Except if there is a massive ground army coming, your first 2 units from your TL factories should be thors, while the reactor'd one start making hellbats

--Dafuq is happening
+ Show Spoiler +

Fortunately, in TvZ, there is a relatively smaller amounts of deadly things that came come and kill you. 1 base play is nearly inexistant and easy to scout (a standard reaper expo scout it in time, early pools are obviously not that hard to deal with as T.. even without a wall, you can hold these with micro), 2 bases play is kinda figured out, and with hellion/banshee, it's easy to handle most attacks your hellions can make him lose some times during his journey, destroy zerglings, and/or counter attack while he's attacking, while your banshees just destroys everything on the ground (focus baneliiiiiings !), and they can easily snowball out of control for the zerg, when you counter attack with 3-4 banshees, and sometimes killing him if he's too greedy.
Versus 2 bases tech play (often mutalisk, but sometimes can be some roaches timings - scout well, and be ready to scan ! 2 bases muta will avoid to use any gas in the early game, and you want to keep your banshees in safe place, and vs roach play, you want them near his base to keep him in good company on his way to your base :D). If you want to be extra safe, change a bit your build, go for 2 fact 1 armory, and get an ebay, but even with 2 arm 2 fact after 3rd CC, you can handle al of this as long as you scout well - and with a bit of experience, it is relatively easy to tell what is coming



-The midgame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Settings
+ Show Spoiler +
So at this point, ideally, you have :
-2-4 TL starport units (banshees mainly, 1 optional raven)
-Some hellions on the map, checking bases/attack paths
-2 thors on the way, 2 tanks if you suspect some kind of roach attack
-3 factories (1 reactor 2 TL), 1 starport (TL or reactor - the TL means earlier ravens, which quite limits your gas for uppgrades/ground units, and banshees, but reactor means added safety vs muta switch, vipers, BL)

--Surviving
+ Show Spoiler +



-The lategame
+ Show Spoiler +
--Still (staying) alive
+ Show Spoiler +

--Kill him !
+ Show Spoiler +



-Units :
+ Show Spoiler +
--Early :
+ Show Spoiler +

--Midgame :
+ Show Spoiler +

--Lategame :
+ Show Spoiler +


Maps :

-Questions ?
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Links :
Sc2Ranks
Facebook
Youtube (The channel is now french-speaking only but the first english videos are still on)



Replays packs :
A First little pack from the start of HOTS, forgot to save a lot of great games but at least show how my builds evolved in the first months
22 June 2013 : New replay pack. Some games from the old one because i forgot to delete/order replays, but a few games to show my current builds in HoTs
December 2013 - no high qualities game, mainly to show builds evolution and standard play

Polls :+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
April 26 2013 14:58 GMT
#2
Wohoo, have been waiting for this :-)
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
April 26 2013 16:13 GMT
#3
The new guide is here!
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
scypio
Profile Joined December 2011
Poland2127 Posts
April 26 2013 17:28 GMT
#4
Good to see you back
I play random | I like Hots | INnoVation | sOs | Tefel TOP1!
Shin_Gouki
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States313 Posts
April 26 2013 17:29 GMT
#5
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o
Death comes in many forms
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
April 26 2013 17:58 GMT
#6
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke
@taefoxy
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
April 26 2013 18:00 GMT
#7
I am very intrested in a good TvT Mech vs bio/tank guide!

I find mech strong in TvZ, hard to use in TvP and close to unplayable in TvT. It seems like Bio/Tank is so much stronger then mech it is almost absurd, it almost impossible to get enough gas to secure your 3rd against a good bio/tank player when going mech. But maybe i am wrong.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
April 26 2013 18:04 GMT
#8
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
FAQ :
Does the hellbat need a nerf ?
I don't think so. In direct fights the unit is slow and don't have a long range, making up for its great damage/AOE, and in terms of harassment it totally relies on the medivac. If there is a nerf to be done, it should be on the medivac, and i don't really think it would be a good think

I don't understand the relevance of having such a balance question in a strategy thread.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
April 26 2013 18:08 GMT
#9
On April 27 2013 03:04 TheDwf wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
FAQ :
Does the hellbat need a nerf ?
I don't think so. In direct fights the unit is slow and don't have a long range, making up for its great damage/AOE, and in terms of harassment it totally relies on the medivac. If there is a nerf to be done, it should be on the medivac, and i don't really think it would be a good think

I don't understand the relevance of having such a balance question in a strategy thread.

Actually, someone asked me this one on the french forum, and since i get it quite frequently, well...
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
April 26 2013 18:32 GMT
#10
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
As some people may (or may not) know, i'm Lyyna, a french terran playing for Fureur (french team)at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server, playing a defensive mech in like 95% of my games. I am also a MVP on the Starcraft 2 french forums


Just out of interest, did you mean about 300th on the server, or 300 points? Because 300 points is not high master.

Glad to see mech is getting popular though, i might use your openings for my offracing.
The world is ending what should we do about it?
Genome852
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States979 Posts
April 26 2013 22:19 GMT
#11
On April 27 2013 03:32 Surili wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
As some people may (or may not) know, i'm Lyyna, a french terran playing for Fureur (french team)at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server, playing a defensive mech in like 95% of my games. I am also a MVP on the Starcraft 2 french forums


Just out of interest, did you mean about 300th on the server, or 300 points? Because 300 points is not high master.

He is currently 1600 points
Surili
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom1141 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-26 22:29:26
April 26 2013 22:28 GMT
#12
On April 27 2013 07:19 Genome852 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 03:32 Surili wrote:
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
As some people may (or may not) know, i'm Lyyna, a french terran playing for Fureur (french team)at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server, playing a defensive mech in like 95% of my games. I am also a MVP on the Starcraft 2 french forums


Just out of interest, did you mean about 300th on the server, or 300 points? Because 300 points is not high master.

He is currently 1600 points

Fair enough

Shit i just realised i blew my 1000th post today when watching Dreamhack, that was meant to be for my new Tyler PvZ guide :'(
The world is ending what should we do about it?
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
April 26 2013 22:32 GMT
#13
On April 27 2013 03:32 Surili wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 26 2013 23:39 Lyyna wrote:
As some people may (or may not) know, i'm Lyyna, a french terran playing for Fureur (french team)at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server, playing a defensive mech in like 95% of my games. I am also a MVP on the Starcraft 2 french forums


Just out of interest, did you mean about 300th on the server, or 300 points? Because 300 points is not high master.

Glad to see mech is getting popular though, i might use your openings for my offracing.

Yes, i mean 300th :p I forgot to add the sc2ranks link, my bad (even if it's not that reliable, considering that i'll often stop laddering for a few days, getting lower in the ranking, and just chain ladder the day i feel well, for example i basically didnt play for like 1 week and an half, was 1500th master, laddered one day, ended up ~~250ish :p)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-26 23:08:35
April 26 2013 23:08 GMT
#14
On April 27 2013 01:13 Targe wrote:
The new guide is here!


What guide? This is a compilation post for posts already made.
mau5mat
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Northern Ireland461 Posts
April 27 2013 00:08 GMT
#15
Do you honestly think mech is viable vs Protoss at the minute? The games I see always look like it was more the Protoss' fault for not knowing what to do vs mech than mech actually being good enough to compete with a decked out Toss army, curious to hear your thoughts on the matter?
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
April 27 2013 00:12 GMT
#16
On April 27 2013 09:08 mau5mat wrote:
Do you honestly think mech is viable vs Protoss at the minute? The games I see always look like it was more the Protoss' fault for not knowing what to do vs mech than mech actually being good enough to compete with a decked out Toss army, curious to hear your thoughts on the matter?

Well, my advice is the same that in wol : mech TvP may or may be not viable at pro lvl but under pro lvl, it is totally viable to play mech in TvP, as long as you make sure to tweak it in order for you to work.
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
dynwar7
Profile Joined May 2011
1983 Posts
April 27 2013 01:11 GMT
#17
Lyyna....in the beginning of 2012, I was one of the people who told you to create a mech guide and you used a funny name...."meching every protoss cry"...now, you've come up with "MECH it happen".....hahah you are quite creative :D
Regarding the imbalance, hilarious to see Zergs defending themselves....
Faust852
Profile Joined February 2012
Luxembourg4004 Posts
April 27 2013 01:28 GMT
#18
Hey, welcome back Lyyna
Rhuubarb
Profile Joined September 2010
Australia102 Posts
April 27 2013 02:34 GMT
#19
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Making it armored would be a massive nerf to it in terms of mech play. At the moment their best use as part of the mech army (not hellbat drops) is to tank/force-field things that wreck tanks such as marauders and immortals. Making them armored would completely remove that and you would be better off using hellions in those situations. Also I don't see why it not being healed by a medivac means it has to be armored?
ETisME
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
12476 Posts
April 27 2013 02:49 GMT
#20
I would love to ask this question.
My tvz is at diamond level and I am trying to play mech properly.
The one thing I really am unsure of is should I ever do a "timing attack"? There are games where I push out with a 2/2 mech and killed in his 4th and my army is kinda stuck there. Afraid an un siege will just get my army wiped by roaches.
But from what I see the pro, they usually does some kinda push even when they aren't maxed out.
其疾如风,其徐如林,侵掠如火,不动如山,难知如阴,动如雷震。
S7EFEN
Profile Joined November 2012
86 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 04:03:36
April 27 2013 03:57 GMT
#21
How, as a protoss should I respond to hellbat heavy (and drop heavy) compositions? I've been going for an additional 2nd / 3rd robo and been building more stalkers while only having a small number of zealots in my composition (favoring archons as the meatshield) and dumping minerals into WP/DT/zealot harass while cannon+stalker+ht per mineral line. The issue here is that stalker/immortal/colossi/archon is very fragile vs ghosts/viking/tank if I take a bad engagement, thats probably something I have to deal with? Or should I be going airtoss rather than emphasizing robo units over gateways?

Also, how exactly does the new thor work and whats it strong/weak against specifically? Obviously thor is good vs air but apparently its ground mode is solid too, so I'm not sure what I should do vs compositions with multiple thors.
Cyro
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United Kingdom20301 Posts
April 27 2013 04:02 GMT
#22
at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server


Wha? I'm 1100 master and awful (seriously, would go 1-5 in a BO9 with any high master)
"oh my god my overclock... I got a single WHEA error on the 23rd hour, 9 minutes" -Belial88
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
April 27 2013 07:39 GMT
#23
On April 27 2013 13:02 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server


Wha? I'm 1100 master and awful (seriously, would go 1-5 in a BO9 with any high master)


That means 300th position on sc2ranks or whatever, not points.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Taefox
Profile Joined March 2010
1533 Posts
April 27 2013 08:29 GMT
#24
On April 27 2013 11:34 Rhuubarb wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Making it armored would be a massive nerf to it in terms of mech play. At the moment their best use as part of the mech army (not hellbat drops) is to tank/force-field things that wreck tanks such as marauders and immortals. Making them armored would completely remove that and you would be better off using hellions in those situations. Also I don't see why it not being healed by a medivac means it has to be armored?

One reason it's being healed by medivac is because of bio type. Making it armored would be a nerf to mech, but huge buff to Marine - MMM as well, since u can use 100 mineral units to tank the shit out of banelings for marine
@taefoxy
padfoota
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Taiwan1571 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 08:31:42
April 27 2013 08:31 GMT
#25
On April 27 2013 17:29 Porishan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 11:34 Rhuubarb wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Making it armored would be a massive nerf to it in terms of mech play. At the moment their best use as part of the mech army (not hellbat drops) is to tank/force-field things that wreck tanks such as marauders and immortals. Making them armored would completely remove that and you would be better off using hellions in those situations. Also I don't see why it not being healed by a medivac means it has to be armored?

One reason it's being healed by medivac is because of bio type. Making it armored would be a nerf to mech, but huge buff to Marine - MMM as well, since u can use 100 mineral units to tank the shit out of banelings for marine


Marauder. Two marine. Hellion. Hellbat.

Depot forcefield
Stop procrastinating
vBr
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden193 Posts
April 27 2013 08:44 GMT
#26
On April 27 2013 13:02 Cyro wrote:
Show nested quote +
at high master (currently 300ish master) Lvl on the EU server


Wha? I'm 1100 master and awful (seriously, would go 1-5 in a BO9 with any high master)


Thats crazy talk. No way I'd drop a game to a 1,100 (1600 too)
vBr
Profile Joined July 2011
Sweden193 Posts
April 27 2013 08:46 GMT
#27
On April 27 2013 17:29 Porishan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 11:34 Rhuubarb wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Making it armored would be a massive nerf to it in terms of mech play. At the moment their best use as part of the mech army (not hellbat drops) is to tank/force-field things that wreck tanks such as marauders and immortals. Making them armored would completely remove that and you would be better off using hellions in those situations. Also I don't see why it not being healed by a medivac means it has to be armored?

One reason it's being healed by medivac is because of bio type. Making it armored would be a nerf to mech, but huge buff to Marine - MMM as well, since u can use 100 mineral units to tank the shit out of banelings for marine


Well.. Marauders are armoured and any Zerg above Diamond actually micros their banelings. Also Hellbats are slow so they'd quite easily run around them in most situations. I agree though that armoured Hellbats would make mech impossible to play TvP.
Dan26
Profile Blog Joined September 2012
Australia239 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 09:04:30
April 27 2013 09:00 GMT
#28
I can't delete posts? Ignore this. sorry.
Eat like a King, Train like a Champion, Sleep like a Baby
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 09:53:36
April 27 2013 09:52 GMT
#29
On April 27 2013 08:08 DemigodcelpH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 01:13 Targe wrote:
The new guide is here!


What guide? This is a compilation post for posts already made.


This will be a compilation for HoTS stuff, which is new, compared to the WoL stuff, which is old.

Various mech guides in every MU


Close enough to a guide for me.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
April 27 2013 10:16 GMT
#30
Atm i have some sort of TvT/TvZ Mech guide that i follow .. But TvP mech i'm 110% clueless!
I'm interested to see how you deal with this!

Looking forward to more content and i'm going to follow this thread very closely!
♥
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
Hatsu
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom474 Posts
April 27 2013 11:06 GMT
#31
I am a 800 points diamond terran (for whatever it's worth) and while I feel I have a good grasp of mech TvT and TvZ, I struggle terribly against protoss.
Please give us some good TvP tips!
Sedit qui timuit ne non succederet
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-27 14:52:47
April 27 2013 14:52 GMT
#32
On April 27 2013 20:06 Hatsu wrote:
I am a 800 points diamond terran (for whatever it's worth) and while I feel I have a good grasp of mech TvT and TvZ, I struggle terribly against protoss.
Please give us some good TvP tips!

yeah, TvP is the first guide im going to make, and the 1st vod will be done soon (should have done it yesterday but had to work... and today too T.T)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Hatsu
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom474 Posts
April 27 2013 21:48 GMT
#33
On April 27 2013 23:52 Lyyna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 20:06 Hatsu wrote:
I am a 800 points diamond terran (for whatever it's worth) and while I feel I have a good grasp of mech TvT and TvZ, I struggle terribly against protoss.
Please give us some good TvP tips!

yeah, TvP is the first guide im going to make, and the 1st vod will be done soon (should have done it yesterday but had to work... and today too T.T)


Thank you Lyyna, I certainly look forward to it
Sedit qui timuit ne non succederet
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
April 27 2013 21:51 GMT
#34
I'm looking forward to seeing the stuff you show for TvZ. I've not played in the past week due to being busy, but until recently the main and probably only matchup I've had a lot of trouble with is TvZ. It'll be great to get some good advice on here, looking forward to it. :D
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
terriBean
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada75 Posts
April 28 2013 22:58 GMT
#35
On April 27 2013 17:31 padfoota wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 17:29 Porishan wrote:
On April 27 2013 11:34 Rhuubarb wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Making it armored would be a massive nerf to it in terms of mech play. At the moment their best use as part of the mech army (not hellbat drops) is to tank/force-field things that wreck tanks such as marauders and immortals. Making them armored would completely remove that and you would be better off using hellions in those situations. Also I don't see why it not being healed by a medivac means it has to be armored?

One reason it's being healed by medivac is because of bio type. Making it armored would be a nerf to mech, but huge buff to Marine - MMM as well, since u can use 100 mineral units to tank the shit out of banelings for marine


Marauder. Two marine. Hellion. Hellbat.

Depot forcefield


gas, can't tank, can't tank,

can't move, protoss ability
HEYALEX
Profile Joined March 2012
United States21 Posts
April 29 2013 03:04 GMT
#36
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.
bakemono
Profile Joined March 2013
11 Posts
April 29 2013 06:27 GMT
#37
Please Terrans - stop going bio widow mine and go mech against zerg, I absolutely love it :D
It's a free win for me.
MockHamill
Profile Joined March 2010
Sweden1798 Posts
April 29 2013 08:56 GMT
#38
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.
LoStraniero
Profile Joined April 2013
Italy8 Posts
April 29 2013 09:35 GMT
#39
That's exactly what I'm looking for.

Thanks and can't wait for your guides.

Cheers
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
April 29 2013 14:45 GMT
#40
On April 29 2013 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.


i somewhat have the same (apart from the mid master level ^^)

Really wanna see how the mech will be explained here.
Looking daily
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
April 29 2013 20:50 GMT
#41
On April 29 2013 23:45 Juice! wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.


i somewhat have the same (apart from the mid master level ^^)

Really wanna see how the mech will be explained here.
Looking daily

Yeah really sorry, i know i'm late, basically my schedule got all fucked up due to the fact i had to work the whole weekend :'(
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Pookie Monster
Profile Joined October 2010
United States303 Posts
April 29 2013 20:58 GMT
#42
On April 29 2013 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.


Are you going hell bat Tank? My winrate at top 8 Masters is ~80%. My army comp is Thor Hellbat Ghost Banshee/Viking. more immortals = more banshee, more collosi = more vikings. Against Sky toss more vikings+ravens and fewer ghosts. Banshee harass hellbat drops.
??
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-04-29 21:37:40
April 29 2013 21:31 GMT
#43
On April 27 2013 02:58 Porishan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 27 2013 02:29 Shin_Gouki wrote:
Hellbat shouldn't be healed by medivac, otherwise the unit is fine.

This is cool to have, since I want more mech play :o

Then should it be armored unit, agree? And banelings will be a joke


Dunno, weirdly enough, in this weird world of sc2, I've always thought of being "armored" as a huge nerf... ^.^"

On April 30 2013 05:58 Pookie Monster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.


Are you going hell bat Tank? My winrate at top 8 Masters is ~80%. My army comp is Thor Hellbat Ghost Banshee/Viking. more immortals = more banshee, more collosi = more vikings. Against Sky toss more vikings+ravens and fewer ghosts. Banshee harass hellbat drops.


Dunno, I think against less skilled players, mech vs zerg is a lot stronger than mech vs protoss (keyphrase being less skilled players). At least that is my experience (in particular because of the strong one base tactics).
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 04 2013 09:19 GMT
#44
So, i'm uploading the second VOD right now, but it seems i can't finish it (have to do it from school, since it would take litterally 3 days from my place), so what'll do is to upload this one (TvP mech changes in HOTS) and the 3rd one (TvZ mech, doing it this WE) on Monday !
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Juice!
Profile Joined January 2011
Belgium295 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-04 10:01:13
May 04 2013 10:00 GMT
#45
-deleted-

Nvm, stupid me =)
Second place is just a fancy term for loser
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-05 03:00:41
May 05 2013 02:59 GMT
#46
On April 30 2013 05:58 Pookie Monster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 29 2013 17:56 MockHamill wrote:
On April 29 2013 12:04 HEYALEX wrote:
Funnily enough, I think mech in tvp is now more viable than in tvz.


Really? I have a 80% winrate in TvZ but only 40% in TvP at mid-Master level when going mech. I find it almost impossible to beat Protoss in a straight up game with mech, their army are just as strong as yours, maybe stronger, + more mobile.


Are you going hell bat Tank? My winrate at top 8 Masters is ~80%. My army comp is Thor Hellbat Ghost Banshee/Viking. more immortals = more banshee, more collosi = more vikings. Against Sky toss more vikings+ravens and fewer ghosts. Banshee harass hellbat drops.


Might you have any replays of straight-up games where you don't win by being ahead via indirect methods? 80% is a huge claim; even HTOMario's worst mech matchup is TvP I believe (around 50%).
llIH
Profile Joined June 2011
Norway2143 Posts
May 05 2013 17:12 GMT
#47
Love your strats Lyyna. Keep em coming please!
c0se
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany148 Posts
May 06 2013 04:48 GMT
#48
Please upload some replays. Cant watch vods with my bad internet connection.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-07 14:49:51
May 07 2013 14:44 GMT
#49
02 (English) Talking about mech TvP in HOTS
First "general" VoD about TvP, i have 4 more VOD (2 french about TvP and TvZ, english one about TvZ, english one about the poll) but i can't upload them since the school's connection is failing today (so i have to restart the upload each time, and it doesn't have the time to complete, i'll reduce a bit the files' size and redo it tomorrow).

So, right now :
-There is a poll in the main post about what should i do in terms of english casting, i'll keep it for a week or two so i can see what people prefer (basically, suffer from my shitty accent while i work on it, or reading english subtitiles), complete it so i can know what most people prefer plz !
-Do not hesitate to say anything than can help me improve my cast. These are the first times i do "casting", which is kind of harder than streaming with commentary in my opinion, and i know that this is kind of shitty at the moment but i really want to improve. Of course don't go into insults/agressive stuff (that may sounds stupid to say this, but well, when streaming i remember getting a few angry "ZOMG U SPEAK ENGLISH LIKE SHIT FRENCH FAG", and i clearly prefer constructive stuff, especially since i will often ask some things to people who give me feedbacks in order to improve as fast as possible... even if it's true that i have a shitty accent right now)

Also, i know i'm rather vague in my casts right now, the problem is that
-HOTS is quite young, most builds/timings aren't known yet
-I only use my games (and i don't have a lot of these since i forgot to save most "good" games these last weeks from lan/internal tn) right now, so it's hard to find several games that fit a set theme and i have to use "general" games.
This aspect should improve over time ,but if i can't find enough of my games, i'll modify a bit how i choose games to cast and uses other's people games in order to talk about specific things (like doing a little VOD to talk about "how to defend this", using a few games from differents people to show differents openings/reactions). This is also the main reason my 1st replay pack is slightly delayed --'

Thanks you anyway for watching and for feedback !
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
May 07 2013 17:20 GMT
#50
After having watched that, don't you harrass at all? Wouldn't that be very advantageous to force fx. static defenses. I mean in that game you were so passive I feel the toss didn't really need to attack you at all, and that was probably his biggest mistake, trying to engage your army rather than just prevent the 4th and get a lead where he could eventually wear you down.

I'm wondering, do you actually have a plan to engage the toss? Since you hit 200/200 and just waited until he attacked you... If he hadn't would you have pushed out?
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
May 07 2013 19:23 GMT
#51
So you think the most optimal composition vs P is hellbat/tank/ghost now? Also Lynna while the vods are good for entertainment and seeing games if you plan to make a new mech TvP guide perhaps you can do it in text form? I'm having a bit of trouble understanding a lot of the dialogue. It IS a good video, but it's hard to understand.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 10 2013 01:01 GMT
#52
@Zarahtra :

No i usually do not harass at all, and i don't often try to push out.

For example in this situation , i knew the protoss was preparing an air switch... but ALREADY maxed : it means it has to loose stuff in order to get his air units, meaning we have to fight, so i just waiting in my base in order to have a better position for the fight, forcing him to choose between replenishing with gateways/robo units (crushed by my tanks thors hellbats ghosts army) or air (allowing me to A move in his base and destroy him while he tries to accumulate these air units.)

@DemigodcelpH :
Yes, with some air (usually 1 port with techlab making whatever is needed : you don't need mass vikings imo until air battles/4 bases when you add at least 1 reactor port) and thors.

Yes, i plan to do a text guide, but this will not come until some time, since i need to make a new viable strat for the whole game, will probably take me at least a few more weeks. Until that you'll have to deal with VoDs, and for that ,don't forget the poll in the main post !
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 10 2013 13:57 GMT
#53

The TvZ video !

A little one (a bit vague i know) about how to play a defensive TvZ style on a map with hard-to-take bases (bel'shir vestige)

little video about the poll for english casting :

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
May 10 2013 14:35 GMT
#54
Just one thing I'd say about your latest video Lynna is when recording you might want to turn your game volume down, sometimes (especially with scans going on) it's really hard to hear you. ^^
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 10 2013 14:50 GMT
#55
On May 10 2013 23:35 Qikz wrote:
Just one thing I'd say about your latest video Lynna is when recording you might want to turn your game volume down, sometimes (especially with scans going on) it's really hard to hear you. ^^

Yeah i realised that in some videos i forgot to put it lower . . i guess i'll just keep playing with low sound even when not casting so i'll not forgot to turn it down :D
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Hatsu
Profile Joined March 2010
United Kingdom474 Posts
May 10 2013 22:27 GMT
#56
Thank you for the vods Lyyna, I have not gotten the chance to watch everything yet but I like what I have seen so far! Keep them coming and don't worry too much about your English, it's understandable in my opinion
Sedit qui timuit ne non succederet
BhostGuster
Profile Joined May 2013
Brazil10 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-10 23:53:47
May 10 2013 23:24 GMT
#57
On May 10 2013 23:35 Qikz wrote:
Just one thing I'd say about your latest video Lynna is when recording you might want to turn your game volume down, sometimes (especially with scans going on) it's really hard to hear you. ^^


This! Your english is just fine but the game volume is too loud and sometimes I miss what you're saying. I'm 5minutes into the video, will give feedback when I'm done.

EDIT: Finished watching. Very good video, but since english is not my first language and the sound was very loud I missed a lot of what you were saying . The Turret advice was very good, I often forget those.

You play a more passive style than I do, pretty interesting . I usually play a more "mobile" (lol) style with Thor/Hellbat and 5~6Tanks, I usually push when 2-2 finishes (I get double armory @ 8:30) but I'm finding very hard to fight against MASS Swarm Hosts (like 20 or more). What I'm trying to do is expand more agressively and do the air switch sooner against Swarm Hosts but I'm still about 50-50 doing that. How do you fight mass swarm hosts?

Other than that, very good thread in general.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 11 2013 00:01 GMT
#58
On May 11 2013 08:24 BhostGuster wrote:
You play a more passive style than I do, pretty interesting . I usually play a more "mobile" (lol) style with Thor/Hellbat and 5~6Tanks, I usually push when 2-2 finishes (I get double armory @ 8:30) but I'm finding very hard to fight against MASS Swarm Hosts (like 20 or more). What I'm trying to do is expand more agressively and do the air switch sooner against Swarm Hosts but I'm still about 50-50 doing that. How do you fight mass swarm hosts?

Other than that, very good thread in general.

Usually versus mass SH, i'll focus mainly on tanks at first , in order to hold a solid position without losing anything to locusts, then ravens (i often use 1 TL starport making ravens/banshees in midgame, depending of the gas i have), using SM (and any remaining banshees) in order to snipe SH. I don't think the mass air switch is a good idea, except if he goes SH when you have like 4 or 5 bases, in this case you can land like 4 port and mass ravens/BC, but you'll still need at least 8-10 tanks in order to fight locusts without much loss
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
BhostGuster
Profile Joined May 2013
Brazil10 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-11 10:21:56
May 11 2013 10:20 GMT
#59
On May 11 2013 09:01 Lyyna wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2013 08:24 BhostGuster wrote:
You play a more passive style than I do, pretty interesting . I usually play a more "mobile" (lol) style with Thor/Hellbat and 5~6Tanks, I usually push when 2-2 finishes (I get double armory @ 8:30) but I'm finding very hard to fight against MASS Swarm Hosts (like 20 or more). What I'm trying to do is expand more agressively and do the air switch sooner against Swarm Hosts but I'm still about 50-50 doing that. How do you fight mass swarm hosts?

Other than that, very good thread in general.

Usually versus mass SH, i'll focus mainly on tanks at first , in order to hold a solid position without losing anything to locusts, then ravens (i often use 1 TL starport making ravens/banshees in midgame, depending of the gas i have), using SM (and any remaining banshees) in order to snipe SH. I don't think the mass air switch is a good idea, except if he goes SH when you have like 4 or 5 bases, in this case you can land like 4 port and mass ravens/BC, but you'll still need at least 8-10 tanks in order to fight locusts without much loss


Most zergs will have a few hydras and an overseer with their SHs, or sometimes they'll even put up spores up near the SHs if the creep spread allows it. I guess I'll try increasing the Tank count.
chuky500
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
France473 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-05-11 11:14:06
May 11 2013 11:09 GMT
#60
I'm a platinum protoss and I had a game last week where the terran only made thors and mines, like 50% thors 50% mines or something like that. I didn't scout well so I didn't really know what to expect and went for a wierd mix of HTs and Immortals and lost my army to his push, then I played from behind and his repop was big. He was scanning to kill the obs and i was trying to storm his mines. Macro wise I was good before that push in my opinion. He made his push with 3 factories when I watched the replay, then made more. The push was at a standard medivac timing push. What do you think of this thors mines mix ? Is is something that only works because it's not usual and platinum don't scout well, and that would get destroyed to immortals out of 2 robos, or something that has inner power that should be explorated more ?
woopr
Profile Joined December 2012
United States112 Posts
May 11 2013 14:33 GMT
#61
--- Nuked ---
Inty
Profile Joined June 2010
United States99 Posts
May 11 2013 16:29 GMT
#62
What do you think of a 2 base timing with 4 facts against protoss as shown by kop in SPL against oz. I don't think I have played enough games with it to truly tell if its good/ bad reactions from opponents but it seems pretty strong. If the toss is being greedy it is very difficult for them to stop it. I have not played against enough two base all ins to tell how well it would fare but it seems like it would be good since you have a lot of units. Against 1 base all ins its a 1-1-1 opening so defend like normal and scout.

For the engagements with the push I feel that it is strong against most compositions a protoss would have at that time. Hellbats kill all the zealots and keep immortals and archons away giving the tanks to deal a lot of damage. The closest someone has been to stopping this push has been with zealot flanks but I feel that can be dealt with by leaving a few hellbats in the rear. Thoughts?
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 12 2013 00:08 GMT
#63
A first (really small) replay pack here : http://www.mediafire.com/?esu0462bp1xmb
Why so small? well, because i forgot to save a tons of high quality games (T_T) which quit pissed me and made me delayed it until i got enough games . . but i wasn't even able to do so. But well, since i now have my 'definitive' builds i'll release this little pack so people can see how my builds evolved since the release of the game and look at the most recent ones to see what i currently use


On May 11 2013 19:20 BhostGuster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2013 09:01 Lyyna wrote:
On May 11 2013 08:24 BhostGuster wrote:
You play a more passive style than I do, pretty interesting . I usually play a more "mobile" (lol) style with Thor/Hellbat and 5~6Tanks, I usually push when 2-2 finishes (I get double armory @ 8:30) but I'm finding very hard to fight against MASS Swarm Hosts (like 20 or more). What I'm trying to do is expand more agressively and do the air switch sooner against Swarm Hosts but I'm still about 50-50 doing that. How do you fight mass swarm hosts?

Other than that, very good thread in general.

Usually versus mass SH, i'll focus mainly on tanks at first , in order to hold a solid position without losing anything to locusts, then ravens (i often use 1 TL starport making ravens/banshees in midgame, depending of the gas i have), using SM (and any remaining banshees) in order to snipe SH. I don't think the mass air switch is a good idea, except if he goes SH when you have like 4 or 5 bases, in this case you can land like 4 port and mass ravens/BC, but you'll still need at least 8-10 tanks in order to fight locusts without much loss


Most zergs will have a few hydras and an overseer with their SHs, or sometimes they'll even put up spores up near the SHs if the creep spread allows it. I guess I'll try increasing the Tank count.

That's why i'll prefer raven, their range is insane and you can 'tank' some spore/hydra fire if needed once you get enough


On May 11 2013 20:09 chuky500 wrote:
I'm a platinum protoss and I had a game last week where the terran only made thors and mines, like 50% thors 50% mines or something like that. I didn't scout well so I didn't really know what to expect and went for a wierd mix of HTs and Immortals and lost my army to his push, then I played from behind and his repop was big. He was scanning to kill the obs and i was trying to storm his mines. Macro wise I was good before that push in my opinion. He made his push with 3 factories when I watched the replay, then made more. The push was at a standard medivac timing push. What do you think of this thors mines mix ? Is is something that only works because it's not usual and platinum don't scout well, and that would get destroyed to immortals out of 2 robos, or something that has inner power that should be explorated more ?

Hmm, i guess the best thing when scouting this when be to go for something like immortal/VR/chargelot, using your zealots to drag mines in his thors while going for a zealot/immortal/tempest composition
A replay would help to see what happens exactly

On May 11 2013 23:33 woopr wrote:
what do you think about changing tanks to 2 supply?

It would be good imo. 2 supply tanks with same cost wouldn't impact early that much but would make tanks massing lategame way better

On May 12 2013 01:29 Inty wrote:
What do you think of a 2 base timing with 4 facts against protoss as shown by kop in SPL against oz. I don't think I have played enough games with it to truly tell if its good/ bad reactions from opponents but it seems pretty strong. If the toss is being greedy it is very difficult for them to stop it. I have not played against enough two base all ins to tell how well it would fare but it seems like it would be good since you have a lot of units. Against 1 base all ins its a 1-1-1 opening so defend like normal and scout.

For the engagements with the push I feel that it is strong against most compositions a protoss would have at that time. Hellbats kill all the zealots and keep immortals and archons away giving the tanks to deal a lot of damage. The closest someone has been to stopping this push has been with zealot flanks but I feel that can be dealt with by leaving a few hellbats in the rear. Thoughts?

Hm, can't watch right now, i'll watch tomorrow and edit this answer
But from what i used to do in WoL, 2 base timings can be good : people may remember i used to some 2 bases push with 1 reactored rax, 3 / 4 fact (1 react 2/3 TL) and 1 TL port , using marines/hellions/tanks/banshees in order to break the protoss army at a timing where he can't have any mass air or too much AOE units to fight your tons of hellions/marines if he went for a fast 3rd
I'll do a more accurate answer after sseing the game
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
DemigodcelpH
Profile Joined August 2011
1138 Posts
May 12 2013 10:51 GMT
#64
Good replays. You have the best positioning out of any mech player I've ever watched (your long siege tank lines with mass turrets and use of planetaries/bunkers with depots is really creative). Godspeed Lyyna.
puissance
Profile Joined May 2010
97 Posts
May 12 2013 22:20 GMT
#65
Hey I want to give constructive criticism regarding your build playstyle in TvP:
- Gas allocation: I think you try to much at once and are left with little actual army. You go for a very fast starport, Banshees, Raven and Ghosts all on two base. This is too "cute" / techy for my taste, a build gets stronger with less different stuff and more of the solid core units, which are lots of Hellbats and Tanks, with a couple of Medivacs / Vikings. This way you end up with a much bigger army faster, which makes you saver against an early Gateway / Immortal push, while giving you the option to get aggressive on (two base) if he gets too greedy.

- Too passive: You dont harass in any way and dont use good push timings. There quite a few missed opportunites where you could have tried to at least pressure your opponent. Early Mine / Marine attacks are strong, possibly two pronged with a Medivac and Hellbat drops throughout the game. Also you build your second Armory quite late, I prefer two build my second army when +1 Weapon is around 75% done, this gives you a strong +2+1 timing.
You dont need to sit for the whole game and wait that he attacks into you, with HOTS mech is much more aggresive, with lots of options, you should use this advantage!
At the back door there's the collapsible rocks, you wanna destroy those to block off the back door with rocks and your opponent has to kill the rocks, and later you can shoot down the rocks to get to the third.. ~Day9 TvP Hots Battlereport
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
May 15 2013 07:30 GMT
#66
On May 13 2013 07:20 puissance wrote:
Hey I want to give constructive criticism regarding your build playstyle in TvP:
- Gas allocation: I think you try to much at once and are left with little actual army. You go for a very fast starport, Banshees, Raven and Ghosts all on two base. This is too "cute" / techy for my taste, a build gets stronger with less different stuff and more of the solid core units, which are lots of Hellbats and Tanks, with a couple of Medivacs / Vikings. This way you end up with a much bigger army faster, which makes you saver against an early Gateway / Immortal push, while giving you the option to get aggressive on (two base) if he gets too greedy.

- Too passive: You dont harass in any way and dont use good push timings. There quite a few missed opportunites where you could have tried to at least pressure your opponent. Early Mine / Marine attacks are strong, possibly two pronged with a Medivac and Hellbat drops throughout the game. Also you build your second Armory quite late, I prefer two build my second army when +1 Weapon is around 75% done, this gives you a strong +2+1 timing.
You dont need to sit for the whole game and wait that he attacks into you, with HOTS mech is much more aggresive, with lots of options, you should use this advantage!

About the gas allocation : Well, i can (barely, but i can) support the ghost/thor/banshee production on 2 bases (assuming my 'ideal' plan where i was able to bank gas early game and taking my 3rd when i start more fact and mass tanks) : i discovered it helped me a lot to fight some hardcore 2 bases timings in WoL, using a relatively low number of super-effective units. Tanks aren't good before you get a critical mass, which is basically why i prefer to go for thors with an early +1 armor in order to fight heavy gateway agressions, with the support of hellbats in order to start massing my 'buffer' units and protect my few first gas units, and the ghost/banshee helps me to fight some units he might mass early in order to try a 2 base timing (like immortal and colossus)

About being too passive : well, that's something i do in every MU. I prefer to miss an attack opportunity in order to consolidate my own position, as i know my lategame is very solid, i don't like to use agressive play or to "waste" units on an harass that will not work if my opponent reacts well (and for me,a play relying on the opponent playing bad is a bad play).
This late second armory is because i don't need double uppgrade before my air switch : i don't need to hit any important timings, and until i switch towards air, i can focus on 1 uppgrade at a time, starting early enough to make sure i still have decent ones, but without spending too much gas on it
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
tallon777
Profile Joined June 2011
Spain4 Posts
May 19 2013 20:57 GMT
#67
Merci beacoup for the replay pack and for your work on sharing your style!
zyberjunior
Profile Joined April 2013
17 Posts
May 27 2013 12:47 GMT
#68
What do you think about doing the marine/hellion expand into mech for TVT?
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
June 01 2013 00:39 GMT
#69
On May 27 2013 21:47 zyberjunior wrote:
What do you think about doing the marine/hellion expand into mech for TVT?

Which version ? 1 1 - Expand ? A drop version or something?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
June 07 2013 11:00 GMT
#70
As some people asked : no update these days because i'm doing my end of year projects, which requires a tons of work, so i don't have time to play a lot, and when i play i prefer to go on Wow (too much pressure while playing sc2 :D). I'll start playing sc2 again next week !
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
ADSRelease
Profile Joined October 2012
United States37 Posts
June 13 2013 17:19 GMT
#71
I'm not sure why you say you have a god awful accent. Your accent is prettier than so many native English speakers.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
June 19 2013 12:15 GMT
#72
On June 14 2013 02:19 ADSRelease wrote:
I'm not sure why you say you have a god awful accent. Your accent is prettier than so many native English speakers.

Because i feel it's true :p even if french, i have difficulties to speak, i have the same in english + lack of practice that affects my accent. Also, i prefer to warn i have a bad accent in case anyone doesnt understand instead of saying i have a good one and get taunted :D

Anyway, now back into sc2 !
updating op with my bo's
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Deleted User 261926
Profile Joined April 2012
960 Posts
June 19 2013 12:33 GMT
#73
On May 11 2013 23:33 woopr wrote:
what do you think about changing tanks to 2 supply?

that you should make roaches and stalkers 1 supply.
Targe
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
United Kingdom14103 Posts
June 19 2013 12:58 GMT
#74
On June 19 2013 21:33 Karpfen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2013 23:33 woopr wrote:
what do you think about changing tanks to 2 supply?

that you should make roaches and stalkers 1 supply.

That would be relevant if dragoons had had 1 supply in Brood War.
11/5/14 CATACLYSM | The South West's worst Falco main
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-06-22 10:37:41
June 22 2013 10:34 GMT
#75
Time to check op guys !

Added a new replays pack, and a poll for the next VoD.

This VOD will be the last one to be made in both english and french 'by default' , after that i'll take the result of the poll

(In the vod's poll, if you chose the last option, just send any question you might have by pm on tl, in order to avoid flooding the thread)

also starting to right the 3 big guides for mech MUs
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
bypLy
Profile Joined June 2013
757 Posts
June 23 2013 12:43 GMT
#76
that builds looks great, gonna try that out
larse
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
1611 Posts
June 28 2013 07:30 GMT
#77
So why mech is viable here but not in a real game?

http://imgur.com/a/zEjY3
Qikz
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United Kingdom12022 Posts
June 28 2013 07:59 GMT
#78
On June 28 2013 16:30 larse wrote:
So why mech is viable here but not in a real game?

http://imgur.com/a/zEjY3


That's usually what happens in real games for me if I have good positioning. The problem I have however is when they warp in a bunch of stuff before I can reinforce :p

I need to work on my factory count.
FanTaSy's #1 Fan | STPL Caster/Organiser | SKT BEST KT | https://twitch.tv/stpl
Sissors
Profile Joined March 2012
1395 Posts
June 28 2013 08:28 GMT
#79
On June 28 2013 16:30 larse wrote:
So why mech is viable here but not in a real game?

http://imgur.com/a/zEjY3

I think that nicely shows the way mech beat toss: if he goes for the frontal assault in pre-sieged mech without a proper unit composition. Luckily that happens quite a bit, but still it says more about the toss than about mech.

Most important, with such a gigantic mobility advantage a toss shouldn't be attacking directly into a sieged up mech army. On a map like Derelict Watcher (http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Derelict_Watcher) it is imo extremely hard to defend the normal third location with mech against a toss mid-late game army. With blink stalkers + colossi they can decimate the base easily (even with only blink stalker raids), and your slow army can arrive when the last SCVs are running for their life.

But now lets assume your army was already their sieged up. The toss walks around and goes towards your natural. What to do? Well not much choice. Unsiege your tanks, and go after his army. Hellbats are quite strong, but also quite horrible at dodging storms. So your hellbats have to go through the storms. Your vikings are fastest part of your army, but without backup they won't do that much. And your siege tanks are unsieged. So if the toss turns around he can suddenly have a very favorable engagement. Or just force you to siege up, and continue destroying your natural again. Meanwhile toss uses freed up supply to warp in round of zealots and kill the third.

Of course it isn't that black and white. You can for example take an alternative third. But a few pictures where a toss army a-moves into pre-sieged terran mech army and also without for example zealot warp-ins really don't say much.

Look at TvZ. Why do you think 4M is so popular? Because it will be more effective than a sieged up mech army in a small arena fight? Of course not, mech would be 10 times more effective in such a situation. The answer is mobility. You can get out of unfavourable engagements. You can force your enemy into unfavourable engagements. You can evade his army, he cannot evade yours. You have always the option of retreat. And not to mention rebuild speed.

Of course there is more than mobility, a very mobile army that can't kill anything is still useless. But so is such a picture.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-02 21:26:50
July 02 2013 21:21 GMT
#80
On June 28 2013 17:28 Sissors wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 28 2013 16:30 larse wrote:
So why mech is viable here but not in a real game?

http://imgur.com/a/zEjY3


But now lets assume your army was already their sieged up. The toss walks around and goes towards your natural. What to do? Well not much choice. Unsiege your tanks, and go after his army. Hellbats are quite strong, but also quite horrible at dodging storms. So your hellbats have to go through the storms. Your vikings are fastest part of your army, but without backup they won't do that much. And your siege tanks are unsieged. So if the toss turns around he can suddenly have a very favorable engagement. Or just force you to siege up, and continue destroying your natural again. Meanwhile toss uses freed up supply to warp in round of zealots and kill the third.

Well, a big mistake people often do vs that is that they often want their army to be a ball - if 1 tank is sieged, NOONE MOVE ZOMG HOLD YOUR GROUND... which is stupid. Your core unit has the longest range available on the ground , you have sensor towers, why not using these ? One of the things most people lack is good tank positionning and sensor tower usage

You put a sensor tower near your 3rd ramp, allowing you to see any incoming things on your third AND natural (so you'll need another for the main/4th), you can then start a tank line at the top of your 3rd ramp (allowing you to cover the most vulnerable point : your 3rd external cliff AND the area near your natural) then adding more tanks sieged closer to your natural : wherever the protoss attack, you shoud have like 50% of your tanks firing.

But hey, he might come by your 4th and blink into your main! but guess what ? since you know he isn't at your 3rd, your army is in position (remember : the most vulnerable/important position) BUT NOT SIEGED. So all you need, when you see him arriving around your 4th, is to just start moving towards your main, but not too far : you don't need to run into his army or to be right under your main's cliff to prevent a blink in, you just need to have the area where he'll start/finish his blink in range of your tanks, meaning that he may not know you're here : He comes in, hoping to blink, and loose a tons of stalkers to a shitload of tanks fire or is forced to retreat, which you can see thanks to your tower, so you can unsiege your tank line, and then be ready to move the next time he enters a sensor tower radius.


also please remember to complete the poll about the subject of the next vod you would like to see
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
G-force
Profile Joined May 2011
Netherlands28 Posts
July 15 2013 14:42 GMT
#81
Heya Lynna, awesome work on showing that mech is not as dead as some people say it is . I have some questions for you about mech TvP, since that is my worst matchup.

I think that my low winrate (about 35-40% in high dia EU) is mostly due to poor adaptation to what my opponent is doing. Protosses have so many different opportunities for allining (off of 1 base). If I scout 2 gas and i think he is proxying, i feel like i have to be safe against oracles, immortal busts, dts and blinkstalkers at the same time... Even when i find the proxy its often too late to even set up a good defense. I watched your VOD on TvP mech and I'm wondering what deviations you make to respond to a protoss allining. Things such as how many bunkers at which time when you expect an immortal allin, how to hold off blink stalker MSC allins into dark templar, etc.

Also, in the VOD you played really passively (great possitioning and the ghosts did wonders for you). However, i often find that protosses past the early game are quite content to just build up a massive doom army with immortals, archons and air (voidray / carrier / tempests). I feel like I'm the one who needs to put the hurt on my opponent in stead of him suiciding his maxed army into my siegeline. Obviously attacking is a lot more tricky then defending with mech, so how do you deal with such passive protoss play?

I recently started to use a build based on Streloks play in the WCS EU season 1 qualifiers. Day9 did a daily on it (http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/). This style has a philosophy of 'less is more', where you simply get to 3 bases and use 6 factories to max out on hellbats and tanks. This allows for a maxed mech push at around 15 minutes, hopefully letting you kill protosses army and at least surviving his warpins. I seem to have some problems with the execution though (either I mess up my macro, or get out of possition with my army, or my opponent goes for warp prism drops and harasses me to death). This is why I can't really tell if the build is solid or if it actually doesnt work against good protosses.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers!
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-29 23:39:27
July 29 2013 22:31 GMT
#82
On July 15 2013 23:42 G-force wrote:
Heya Lynna, awesome work on showing that mech is not as dead as some people say it is . I have some questions for you about mech TvP, since that is my worst matchup.

I think that my low winrate (about 35-40% in high dia EU) is mostly due to poor adaptation to what my opponent is doing. Protosses have so many different opportunities for allining (off of 1 base). If I scout 2 gas and i think he is proxying, i feel like i have to be safe against oracles, immortal busts, dts and blinkstalkers at the same time... Even when i find the proxy its often too late to even set up a good defense. I watched your VOD on TvP mech and I'm wondering what deviations you make to respond to a protoss allining. Things such as how many bunkers at which time when you expect an immortal allin, how to hold off blink stalker MSC allins into dark templar, etc.

Also, in the VOD you played really passively (great possitioning and the ghosts did wonders for you). However, i often find that protosses past the early game are quite content to just build up a massive doom army with immortals, archons and air (voidray / carrier / tempests). I feel like I'm the one who needs to put the hurt on my opponent in stead of him suiciding his maxed army into my siegeline. Obviously attacking is a lot more tricky then defending with mech, so how do you deal with such passive protoss play?

I recently started to use a build based on Streloks play in the WCS EU season 1 qualifiers. Day9 did a daily on it (http://day9.tv/d/Day9/day9-daily-575-mech-vs-protoss/). This style has a philosophy of 'less is more', where you simply get to 3 bases and use 6 factories to max out on hellbats and tanks. This allows for a maxed mech push at around 15 minutes, hopefully letting you kill protosses army and at least surviving his warpins. I seem to have some problems with the execution though (either I mess up my macro, or get out of possition with my army, or my opponent goes for warp prism drops and harasses me to death). This is why I can't really tell if the build is solid or if it actually doesnt work against good protosses.

I'd love to hear your thoughts.

Cheers!

1) Well, my goal when making builds is to have to as little adaptations as possible when seeing any allin , due to the fact that
-I can sometimes go full retard mode and totally miss something
-Protoss are hard to scout
So my builds are made to make sure that regardless of what i see, the adaptation is minor
I usually do go for 111 (regardless of the expo timing) in order to get :
- Marines
- Mines (optional, depends of my build)
- Tanks
- 1 Raven
- Banshee
with 1 early bunker, which allows you to prevent most protoss idiotic stuff

2) Well, i play an even more passive style and aim for a big doom army (watch the 1h30 long game in the replay pack for that, read below)

3) Well, this build can work but this isn't really my kind of mech. For me mech is all about using your casters and having a strong army composition, aiming for lategame, while this build is all about brute-forcing your opponent with low tech units. Might as well play bio imo :p
Fun to use sometimes, but then i prefer to use builds with earlier push (similar to my WoL 2 bases marines BFH tank banshees push)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyways, some little updates about myself :
-Why no VOD? because i was both in a bad mood for some times ( i know, happens quite a lot, but hey, i'm quite a depressive guy) , and had tons of stuff to do at the holyday's start.
-What will happens now ? Well , i got a big news : i'm currently changing my internet and might be able to stream from my own place §§§§§ . So i'll do the next vod normally (about tvz, i think) and then it'll depends how good the connection is. If i can stream , i'll do few vods with tons of streaming, if no stream, i'll try to get a rythm of like 1 vod / week once i get all my real life stuff sorted

Anyway, these days i'm doing pretty fine in the ladder , meeting good amounts of GM and slowly climbing again in the top 200 master, so don't worry, my mech is doing well ! :D

edit : oh and, the replay pack --' BRAIN, Y U NO STOP FORGET STUFF ?
http://www.mediafire.com/?szo5wwbyadox8gf
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-11-27 14:11:15
November 27 2013 14:04 GMT
#83
Sup' guys, time for some news
-I'm restarting the VOD channel. I'm uploading a VOD to explain some stuff about it, but basically it's going to be mainly french now because it's just too hard to make each VODs in both languages, but i also want to have french-specific content. I'll still do some "relaxed" VOds in english (vlogs, advices about the game ,etc).
-I'll stream more often and start making guides again (both in english!) (and btw, stream in 2-3hours , check the link on facebook in the op blablabla !:p)

I'm starting to enjoy the game again, basically played more in 2 weeks than i did in 4 months!

The vod ->
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Furbiford
Profile Joined June 2011
United States54 Posts
December 02 2013 21:47 GMT
#84
Hey Lyyna! I remember a while ago you commented on my original TvP mech guide. I just posted an updated version of it here on TL and the BNet forums. If you have any spare time I would love any feedback that you could provide since you are an experienced mech player yourself. =)
nomufftotuff
Profile Joined May 2013
16 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-12-03 03:55:47
December 03 2013 03:55 GMT
#85
<3 Be sure to sign onto NA soon!
Iron_
Profile Joined April 2010
United States389 Posts
December 07 2013 04:59 GMT
#86
Hi Lyyna,

What unit composition should I go for when I see swarm hosts? If I get caught by surprise, how should I handle that, try and survive the free units or try and run around? I am getting better vs roach and muta with mech, but swarm hosts I don't do well against at all.
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
December 08 2013 14:36 GMT
#87
Imo, the best way to do so, is to use your thors with a tons of scv (i mean, like 12+) behind them to handle to first waves : try to use any early banshees (i also open with an early raven for the purpose of having 2 pdd vs early SH) to force him to move SH (by 'dancing' out and in thor range) if he's too close , and first of all, go hardcore on tanks. Once your tank numbers start to be enough to stabilise, i'll go for 2 more port (up to 3), slowly increasing my raven count. Use your first ones for pdd, and once you have enough (6+), start the missile counter-attack

I don't thing avoiding him is a good idea, since SH have an insane range, he can just move a few to block your force while keeping the others near you to harass your undefended bases
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
cloneThorN
Profile Joined September 2012
Denmark302 Posts
December 08 2013 15:29 GMT
#88
From a zerg players point of view, i would like to add a few tips:

1. BFHellion destroy locust.
2. Raven siegetank hellbat viking/thor destroy roach hydra viper.
3. Mech is all about defensive play in TvZ. Don't attack if you are not forced to do it(i.e. basetrade).
4. All yyour expansions beyound your 3rd, should be planetaries. OB's can be bbuild at home, and makes a great simcity.

If you want to know why i'm posting tips to terrans, then it's because i think that mech is hilariousl broken(e.g. overpowered) vs zerg, so i want DK and DB to notice the issue, and maybe buff zerg so they can deal with it.


Regards, A high master zerg.
I can do anything i want, until otherwise is proven.
Drake
Profile Joined October 2010
Germany6146 Posts
December 08 2013 16:21 GMT
#89
On December 09 2013 00:29 cloneThorN wrote:
From a zerg players point of view, i would like to add a few tips:

1. BFHellion destroy locust.
2. Raven siegetank hellbat viking/thor destroy roach hydra viper.
3. Mech is all about defensive play in TvZ. Don't attack if you are not forced to do it(i.e. basetrade).
4. All yyour expansions beyound your 3rd, should be planetaries. OB's can be bbuild at home, and makes a great simcity.

If you want to know why i'm posting tips to terrans, then it's because i think that mech is hilariousl broken(e.g. overpowered) vs zerg, so i want DK and DB to notice the issue, and maybe buff zerg so they can deal with it.


Regards, A high master zerg.


meh thats the boring mech style this "not attack"
the "new" mech style like hto mario (high gm) plays it is ALOT attacking in tvz with 1 million mines, way more funnier !
and dont say its totaly broken (theres a reason only few terrans play it) there are good counters, you just need to know them ^^
Nb.Drake / CoL_Drake / Original Joined TL.net Tuesday, 15th of March 2005
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
January 03 2014 01:29 GMT
#90
Hello guys !
I wrote a first draft of a TvT guide (more like a bunch of advices and tips stripped together :D), which is currently in the op
The form of it is really rough but well, 'bout time to start doing something useful in HotS !

Also, new replay pack, no exceptional game (except the TvP vs Tyran or something like this, which is the best display of skill ever done by an HIGH MASTER protoss player) -> http://www.mediafire.com/download/rxwccuncdqpd94b/December 2013 replays.zip
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
Mikah
Profile Joined June 2011
Finland230 Posts
January 03 2014 04:16 GMT
#91
On January 03 2014 10:29 Lyyna wrote:
Hello guys !
I wrote a first draft of a TvT guide (more like a bunch of advices and tips stripped together :D), which is currently in the op
The form of it is really rough but well, 'bout time to start doing something useful in HotS !

Also, new replay pack, no exceptional game (except the TvP vs Tyran or something like this, which is the best display of skill ever done by an HIGH MASTER protoss player) -> http://www.mediafire.com/download/rxwccuncdqpd94b/December 2013 replays.zip

Yay I made it to your replay pack, the "fucking closest tvp match" :D It was the first time I played vs. a good mech player so I was taking really bad fights and got stomped even though I had like over twice your resources :D gg!
Lyyna
Profile Joined June 2011
France776 Posts
January 04 2014 02:32 GMT
#92
On January 03 2014 13:16 Mikah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 03 2014 10:29 Lyyna wrote:
Hello guys !
I wrote a first draft of a TvT guide (more like a bunch of advices and tips stripped together :D), which is currently in the op
The form of it is really rough but well, 'bout time to start doing something useful in HotS !

Also, new replay pack, no exceptional game (except the TvP vs Tyran or something like this, which is the best display of skill ever done by an HIGH MASTER protoss player) -> http://www.mediafire.com/download/rxwccuncdqpd94b/December 2013 replays.zip

Yay I made it to your replay pack, the "fucking closest tvp match" :D It was the first time I played vs. a good mech player so I was taking really bad fights and got stomped even though I had like over twice your resources :D gg!

Hehe, gg to you too. You had the right ideas to play vs mech, the only problem was the execution (and some luck from me :p)
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/sc2-strategy/459600-how-to-mech-them-cry-lyynas-mech-in-hots - The 2014 Mech guide ! http://www.twitch.tv/lyyna for stream and contact infos
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