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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/aTYi9iF.jpg)
If I recall, a 3-bunker wall was also a problem on older maps like Shakuras Plateau. Even if you see the wall instantly and pull every drone, at least one of the bunkers will finish and you can't kill the other bunkers fast enough to get outside.
Once one bunker is finished with a marine inside (at 4:00), surviving SCVs can finish incomplete bunkers and start safely repairing from outside, and damage starts being done to the hatchery. As more marines arrive, they can dart out of the bunker to snipe drones and jump back in when chased.
Is there a counter to this? I went with 2 spines, 2 queens, and a few lings... with two SCVs repairing from outside (which I targeted with queens), I just didn't have enough to take out even one bunker. And if one did go down, the marines can just hop into the other two. I can't see how this could be breakable at all.
Another option would be to drone up, spread creep to the ramp, cancel the hatch before it finishes, and break the wall. This would be time-consuming, and by the time I could safely put down an expansion I feel I would be significantly behind the opponent in economy. I just tested out how long it would take to get a spinecrawler in place and take out the bunkers... the earliest possible safe time to put down the expo is 6:40. My terran opponent in this game had his started at 5:30.
The remaining options are one-base allins. A one-base ling/roach drop takes far too long to be effective. In-base nydus is slow, and good opponents will spot the nydus and kill it with workers.
One-base roach/ling is the only halfway decent option available, as it can strike with 8 roaches and 32 zerglings before the 8 minute mark. But I think the odds of success are fairly low... terran will see that you are obviously 1-basing, will probably catch a glimpse of your macro hatch, and can easily tell a desperate allin is coming. Barracks walls and bunkers are pretty effective against this, obviously.
Is there any trick to dealing with this rush that I'm unaware of? Is there any counter at all? I'd love to hear more from players who use or fight against this rush and know what they're talking about. (The IRC advice I got, which was to send half my drones to the center of the map at 3:00 every game just in case, was not so helpful... lol)
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Just wondering, is there 1 rax or 2 rax marine production behind this?
In case of 1 rax, it shouldn't be that bad if he gets one or two bunkers up. If there are 2 rax, then that's basically 750 minerals in structures... that... cannot hit that soon, can it...?
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It's depot at 10 supply, 11 proxy rax, 14 orbital, 15 triple bunker. Only one rax, the first marine arrives 2 seconds before the bunkers finish at 4:00. He could get the bunkers started much earlier if he wanted to wait on the orbital, but I guess there's not much point to finishing them before a marine is there.
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When you scout the Marine rush you have to put a drone on patrol to block this space.
There will be no marines there to kill it when they want to put the bunkers down.
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Yea that is not very dangerous because you will see it coming with your scouting drone. When you see it coming, just don't let the third bunker be placed and you win. The way you do it is pull 8 drones with the scouting one it will be 9. Put 1 drone on the middle bunker SCV, target the upcoming marine with 3 drones and use 6 drones to attack the middle bunker. The middle bunker will go down before the marine gets there (if he doesn't get killed my 3 drones) and the third will never get started. He will also be 1 scv short (one drone will eventually kill it). 6 zerglings come out, chase down 2nd and 3rd marine, drones go back to mineral lines and you win no matter what you do next. Also, there is no way this is 2 barracks, it is too early, he won't have enough minerals.
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I always suggest to scout in ZvT, once you see no barracks in their base (or you can scout at the proxy locations first and see the rax there) bring your drones down and block the bunkers and build a spine. Deal with it as you would with a normal 2 rax, but gotta scout to make sure you can bring drones down in time to block the bunkers. As it is can only be 1 rax and not 2, you could follow up with a baneling all-in quite effectively, or roach I prefer.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
Why not start with spawning pool instead hatchery?
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On March 30 2013 20:22 Existor wrote:
Why not start with spawning pool instead hatchery?
10 pool auto-win 
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If you didn't manage to block it...can't you just baneling bust this? Like how some people used to deal with 2 rax bunker contains? If it begins firing at your hatchery at around 4 minutes with only 1-2 marines...it will take forever to destroy your hatchery...You can get about 6 banelings by 5min -5;30s depending on your gas pool timings, if you skip speed. Then you use your slow lings + queens to tank some hits while your banelings hit the middle one dealing damage to the side bunkers as well. You should have enough lings + queens to deal with the remaining forces, but if you don't feel confident you could always bring some drones in as well. The guy should only have about 4-5 marines. Then you just go into a normal game from there on...you can start droning on from there as he should have a very late gas and should not be able to expand to the low ground as he is highly vulnerable to a baneling bust once you get speed.
Edit: I just had a look at the picture you showed as an example. The surface area of the bunker for the one on the far north is way too high..you can focus it down using lings + drones, microing back injured ones.
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On March 30 2013 18:20 graNite wrote:
When you scout the Marine rush you have to put a drone on patrol to block this space.
There will be no marines there to kill it when they want to put the bunkers down.
This is what most zergs did against 3 pylon block in wol, it seems like the most viable way of dealing with it.
pool before hatch is just a gamble.
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On March 30 2013 18:13 Chocobo wrote:
It's depot at 10 supply, 11 proxy rax, 14 orbital, 15 triple bunker. Only one rax, the first marine arrives 2 seconds before the bunkers finish at 4:00. He could get the bunkers started much earlier if he wanted to wait on the orbital, but I guess there's not much point to finishing them before a marine is there.
I'm pretty sure Select used to do this build on Shakuras Plateau, and he would go with 2 rax and skip his orbital. Something like 10 supply, 11 rax, 12 rax, 15 triple bunker.
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Once they are up. You will not win the game. Unless he falls out of his chair when you pop the nydus.
either drone scout, 15p 15h, 10p, Or go hatch first and pray it doesn't happen often
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On March 30 2013 22:14 BuiBui wrote:
Once they are up. You will not win the game. Unless he falls out of his chair when you pop the nydus.
either drone scout, 15p 15h, 10p, Or go hatch first and pray it doesn't happen often
The chair bit made me laugh :D
But on topic I would say praying it doesn't get done often isn't really an option unless you want to lose and there's nothing you can do, and between sending a scouting drone, and opening pool first, I think it's obvious to drone scout. Not only can you see what they are doing if you're lucky enough to get in, but it also lets you prepare for cheese like this without having to use an inferior build order. If they don't do this cheese, and you went pool first, you will be behind economically. If they don't do this and you drone scouted, you've lost a little bit of economy but not as much and scouting is always good for information. Of course a pool first would make this almost an auto-win situation, and would let you punish greedy builds, but I think drone scouting is good enough to stop this and doesn't cut into your economy much. There's a reason why hatch first is the standard ZvT build, you should be able to hold anything as long as you scout it. So scout 
Hope I helped a little.
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On March 30 2013 22:27 LardMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 22:14 BuiBui wrote:
Once they are up. You will not win the game. Unless he falls out of his chair when you pop the nydus.
either drone scout, 15p 15h, 10p, Or go hatch first and pray it doesn't happen often The chair bit made me laugh :D But on topic I would say praying it doesn't get done often isn't really an option unless you want to lose and there's nothing you can do, and between sending a scouting drone, and opening pool first, I think it's obvious to drone scout. Not only can you see what they are doing if you're lucky enough to get in, but it also lets you prepare for cheese like this without having to use an inferior build order. If they don't do this cheese, and you went pool first, you will be behind economically. If they don't do this and you drone scouted, you've lost a little bit of economy but not as much and scouting is always good for information. Of course a pool first would make this almost an auto-win situation, and would let you punish greedy builds, but I think drone scouting is good enough to stop this and doesn't cut into your economy much. There's a reason why hatch first is the standard ZvT build, you should be able to hold anything as long as you scout it. So scout Hope I helped a little.
I'm glad I can infuse humor in the morning ^_^
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On March 30 2013 22:27 LardMaster wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 22:14 BuiBui wrote:
Once they are up. You will not win the game. Unless he falls out of his chair when you pop the nydus.
either drone scout, 15p 15h, 10p, Or go hatch first and pray it doesn't happen often The chair bit made me laugh :D But on topic I would say praying it doesn't get done often isn't really an option unless you want to lose and there's nothing you can do, and between sending a scouting drone, and opening pool first, I think it's obvious to drone scout. Not only can you see what they are doing if you're lucky enough to get in, but it also lets you prepare for cheese like this without having to use an inferior build order. If they don't do this cheese, and you went pool first, you will be behind economically. If they don't do this and you drone scouted, you've lost a little bit of economy but not as much and scouting is always good for information. Of course a pool first would make this almost an auto-win situation, and would let you punish greedy builds, but I think drone scouting is good enough to stop this and doesn't cut into your economy much. There's a reason why hatch first is the standard ZvT build, you should be able to hold anything as long as you scout it. So scout Hope I helped a little.
The drone scout costs more eco than playing pool before hatch. However there are other disadvantages to pool first such as getting nat blocked more easily and later creep at nat.
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On March 30 2013 23:12 Schnullerbacke13 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 30 2013 22:27 LardMaster wrote:On March 30 2013 22:14 BuiBui wrote:
Once they are up. You will not win the game. Unless he falls out of his chair when you pop the nydus.
either drone scout, 15p 15h, 10p, Or go hatch first and pray it doesn't happen often The chair bit made me laugh :D But on topic I would say praying it doesn't get done often isn't really an option unless you want to lose and there's nothing you can do, and between sending a scouting drone, and opening pool first, I think it's obvious to drone scout. Not only can you see what they are doing if you're lucky enough to get in, but it also lets you prepare for cheese like this without having to use an inferior build order. If they don't do this cheese, and you went pool first, you will be behind economically. If they don't do this and you drone scouted, you've lost a little bit of economy but not as much and scouting is always good for information. Of course a pool first would make this almost an auto-win situation, and would let you punish greedy builds, but I think drone scouting is good enough to stop this and doesn't cut into your economy much. There's a reason why hatch first is the standard ZvT build, you should be able to hold anything as long as you scout it. So scout Hope I helped a little. The drone scout costs more eco than playing pool before hatch. However there are other disadvantages to pool first such as getting nat blocked more easily and later creep at nat.
Without evidence I can't say that I believe that 15h/15p with drone scout is worse economically than 15p/15h without a drone scout.
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12 scout and patrol a drone
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EPT
