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BruMeister
United States90 Posts
I did a test vs the AI to see what I would have at 10 minutes, and at 10:20 I had 48 SCv, 3 vikings, 24 marines, and 1 battlecruiser. Its that that impressive I know this was just a run through and so it's a bit rough. Here's the replay http://drop.sc/311989 (I know its against a protoss AI but this build is for TvT). Obviously it needs fleshing out, but what are your guys' thoughts about cleaning this up, and also if it could end up being viable. | ||
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tisalgado
Brazil51 Posts
I don't think your 24 marines and 1 battlecruiser would do much against a 10min +1 stim medivac push (as in TvP), not to mention siege tanks... he could just siege up your natural (or third if that already exists) before you even had battlecruisers with a 1-1-1 expo... I like BC as a later transition, but to open with them sounds risky as you'd give up a lot of earlier strenghts in order to tech straight to them | ||
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ScrubS
Netherlands436 Posts
Besides being awesome, a single bc isn't really that useful at that time of the game. As there is no real use for it, there is no reason to rush it as you could also get upgrades or a 3rd base or whatever. | ||
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Unsane
Canada170 Posts
On March 22 2013 04:36 BruMeister wrote: I've been thinking of playstyles outside the realm of marine/tank/medivac and I was wondering if there was any way battlecruisers would be a viable option (perhaps a BC/viking/marine composition). The battlecruisers could yamato the enemy terran siege lines while the vikings keep them safe from enemy vikings. I did a test vs the AI to see what I would have at 10 minutes, and at 10:20 I had 48 SCv, 3 vikings, 24 marines, and 1 battlecruiser. Its that that impressive I know this was just a run through and so it's a bit rough. Here's the replay http://drop.sc/311989 (I know its against a protoss AI but this build is for TvT). Obviously it needs fleshing out, but what are your guys' thoughts about cleaning this up, and also if it could end up being viable. In TvT, BCs are only good for shooting down, and thors now stand to be a reasonable threat versus them. With the fusion core (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sclRg8g_1PE) being such an obvious giveaway you're asking to get scouted and hard countered. There is no way your opponent is still not going to know what you're doing by 10 mins. 1 extra viking and your strat is toast, 2 thors and your start is toast, all stim marine/medivac and your strat is toast, if he attacks you before 10 mins you're also probly toast. | ||
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BruMeister
United States90 Posts
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
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Aveng3r
United States2411 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:11 BruMeister wrote: Then are tanks the only way to go in TvT? not really, you have a ton of options in tvt. you can go bio only, mech only, bio-mech, etc. Are you new to the game? Ide be happy to answer any questions you had about tvt but it would help to know where you are at skill-wise. | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
Also, Thorzain has done a Mass Reaper / mass expansion style in TvT on his stream, and it actually worked quite well. He never tried the BC transition, but after watching his games it makes sense because Tanks really are what shut it down and obviously you can't go anything like Banshees because you don't have your own Tanks to stop marines from protecting their own tanks. Though it might be that the player just got far enough ahead with mass reaper that they could go about anything that is able to break tanks decently (like Marine/Marauder/Medivac). | ||
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Infernal_dream
United States2359 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:15 ZjiublingZ wrote: Alright just to give OP benefit of the doubt, Dustin Browder did say that David Kim faced a "Reaper > BC" composition in TvT, and it worked well. He didn't elaborate much beyond that point, but DK is a relatively high level player. Also, Thorzain has done a Mass Reaper / mass expansion style in TvT on his stream, and it actually worked quite well. He never tried the BC transition, but after watching his games it makes sense because Tanks really are what shut it down and obviously you can't go anything like Banshees because you don't have your own Tanks to stop marines from protecting their own tanks. Though it might be that the player just got far enough ahead with mass reaper that they could go about anything that is able to break tanks decently (like Marine/Marauder/Medivac). Doesn't mean it's a good build. I remember seeing MC do a carrier rush in PvT one time and winning with it. Doesn't mean the build is actually good. Just means they didn't get scouted. | ||
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ZjiublingZ
United Arab Emirates439 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:19 Infernal_dream wrote: Doesn't mean it's a good build. I remember seeing MC do a carrier rush in PvT one time and winning with it. Doesn't mean the build is actually good. Just means they didn't get scouted. I simply never said it did. There are builds that are so bad that they just don't work even when unscouted. So the fact that it did work, scouted or unscouted, properly reacted to or not, it does add some credence to the OP's idea. Which, if you read my post, is all I said I was doing. Not to mention it gives people an idea of how they might transition into BC's, if they were inclined to trying to test out this idea, by getting ahead in economy with Reapers. | ||
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BruMeister
United States90 Posts
On March 22 2013 05:13 Aveng3r wrote: not really, you have a ton of options in tvt. you can go bio only, mech only, bio-mech, etc. Are you new to the game? Ide be happy to answer any questions you had about tvt but it would help to know where you are at skill-wise. I just got into Diamond doing pretty much 1 rax FE marine/maruader/medivac ten minute push. If I was against terrans I'd throw in a few tanks but now that I'm in diamond that push doesnt really work and I get clobbered by enemy tanks. | ||
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HeyJude
United States157 Posts
The other posters aren't telling you that BC's are bad, just that they're a bad opening. As Avenger said you probably don't want BC's until you're up over 150 supply with at least 3-4 bases or you'll never be able to support the gas cost of BC's along with other gas units. And you still need some Vikings to support those BC's or your opponent can just kite the BC's since Viking range>BC The main problem with your opening, as others have pointed out, is its weakness to any sort of tank push. 3-4 tanks+3-4 Vikings would ruin your day rather fast  On a side note, I'm a diamond terran as well and I've actually gone fairly fast BC's against zerg with decent success. If the zerg looks like he's going for a fairly fast 3rd I'll harass a bit with rine/hellion but dump most of my gas into a couple BC's then do a push. Even if he scouts the lab on your port the way most zerg's respond to banshees is completely different than how they respond to BC's so as long as your core is hidden he won't be ready if you show up at his door with 2 BC's with rines/hellion/battle hellions. I've only lost once doing this build but the only time I do the build is if the zerg is still gasless during my first drop. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16056 Posts
On March 22 2013 04:54 Unsane wrote: In TvT, BCs are only good for shooting down, and thors now stand to be a reasonable threat versus them. With the fusion core (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sclRg8g_1PE) being such an obvious giveaway you're asking to get scouted and hard countered. There is no way your opponent is still not going to know what you're doing by 10 mins. 1 extra viking and your strat is toast, 2 thors and your start is toast, all stim marine/medivac and your strat is toast, if he attacks you before 10 mins you're also probly toast. There's always the good o'l Yamato Cannon for dealing with Thors. Battlecruisers are really powerful in late game TvT but their potency is heavily dependent upon Raven usage to counter mass numbers of Marines and or Vikings. So with that in mind, there's very little reason to ever rush straight to them in TvT unless in very specific situations like your opponent is obviously going for a big midgame Tank/Hellion push with very little anti-air. (See Flash vs Fantasy (at least I think it was fantasy) from last season's code A.) | ||
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