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On July 29 2013 02:00 Marathi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 28 2013 15:57 KingofGods wrote:
If you scout the proxy stargate what is your response? Attack the pylon or stargate or pull marine back?
It seems neither my repear nor my marine can do enough before the stalker comes and chases my unit away. Just prepare to defend your mineral line with your marines. You will struggle to stop the oracle before it pops and your marines will be out of position to defend if you try to kill it.
I also came to this conclussion. There are 4 important locations in your base: the 2 mineral lines, Stim (and Prod) and the entrance to your base at the Nat. I would plant 1 turret in the main min line (facing more in the direction of the opponent) and defend the Nat with your marines. Or be ultra safe and build 2 turrets and have the marines between the bases. The bunker at the Nat should be enough to deter a few gateway units and when stim is attacked just pull few scvs and try to kill the oracle with your rines.
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Scouting In TvP is So critical it can make you or break you depending on what you scout.... I'm starting to see more and more that Avilo's Reaper expand with widow mines is soooo freaking powerful and helps you defend against this oracle pressure 1 widow mine kills 1 oracle.... for early oracles its all about stalling until that first widow mine comes out i guess.... I havn't fought against this yet but Avilo has it on his Write up of his TvP Reaper safe expand
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On the topic of blink stalker all-ins (which I still cannot hold at all it seems) if I spot it early enough should I cancel my 2nd CC and use those mins for defense? (I typically use demuslims early ebay reaper expand build and scout with the scv after my 1st rax).
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I've defended blink stalker all in pretty well with tanks on 2 base... but usually you have to take ur 2nd CC if made on the low ground and bring it up to your main base and go for factory and get 1-2 tanks with bunker in good position and once you get enough force and micro to push out and take ur nat.... With this i've only failed a few times 1 time vses Capoch which he just raped me because In a unthoughtout panic i placed my fact to far out LOL Poo Poo on me haha
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On July 29 2013 23:24 Pirfiktshon wrote:
I've defended blink stalker all in pretty well with tanks on 2 base... but usually you have to take ur 2nd CC if made on the low ground and bring it up to your main base and go for factory and get 1-2 tanks with bunker in good position and once you get enough force and micro to push out and take ur nat.... With this i've only failed a few times 1 time vses Capoch which he just raped me because In a unthoughtout panic i placed my fact to far out LOL Poo Poo on me haha
Ok, thanks. I always build my expo on the high ground first, but I was just wondering if the refunded minerals would be worth going for more bunkers or whatever, vs finishing the CC and ending up farther ahead if you do manage to hold.
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If you cancel your CC that is a win for him. With 2 bases up it means he is really far behind if he decides to try and play a macro game after a failed allin. Whereas if he forces the cancel of your CC it would be pretty even or he could even be in the lead economically due to your investment in defence.
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That answer depends on how early you scout to be even able to do that.... Most of the time I dont ( by most of the time I mean never) but there are plenty of better people than me out there that could answer it better .....
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Blink stalker all in hits after your 2nd cc orbital finishes, so whenever you scout it just get a bunker on the highground, start a fact if you havent already and get a tank or two. Depending on the map you might need more than 1 bunker.
Once your stim is done and you have two tanks you can take your nat and feel secure.
Don't cancel your cc, you'll just be behind.
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On July 29 2013 23:15 teuthida wrote:
On the topic of blink stalker all-ins (which I still cannot hold at all it seems) if I spot it early enough should I cancel my 2nd CC and use those mins for defense? (I typically use demuslims early ebay reaper expand build and scout with the scv after my 1st rax).
How would you go about identifying Blink before your CC finishes?
Why do you SCV scout when you are making a reaper?
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Well sometimes (a lot of times actually) your reaper has to deal with the zealot so you do need something else to help you scout. People will also scv scout if they wish to ebay block. Also having an scv on the other side of the map helps with the ~6min scout because you send the scv and reaper in at the same time and hopefully at least one of them will spot the tech building.
One more thing about scv scouting: You can see early if the protoss base has 2 gas and is missing a pylon so your reaper can stay on your side of the map and scout proxies and you are free to keep the scv on the other side of the map and see if and when the protoss takes their expansion.
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Your reaper should have no problems with zealots and even with one or two stalkers out you can still get good scout reads with proper micro as reapers are faster than stalkers (just need to be careful when hopping up edges whether his stalkers are in place or not)
A question of my own. A problem I often have is that when I start to get harassed, from probes/drones attacking my SCVs that are building things, or stalkers trying to snipe a refinery with his ground vision off obs or MsC. I find my build order starts going to absolute pot. Things get very delayed, I skip things or do them in a different order to how they should be because I am trying to deal with this little problem.
Does anyone have any tips for that?
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On July 30 2013 07:17 Marathi wrote:
Your reaper should have no problems with zealots and even with one or two stalkers out you can still get good scout reads with proper micro as reapers are faster than stalkers (just need to be careful when hopping up edges whether his stalkers are in place or not)
A question of my own. A problem I often have is that when I start to get harassed, from probes/drones attacking my SCVs that are building things, or stalkers trying to snipe a refinery with his ground vision off obs or MsC. I find my build order starts going to absolute pot. Things get very delayed, I skip things or do them in a different order to how they should be because I am trying to deal with this little problem.
Does anyone have any tips for that?
I scv scout because I read somewhere that it was a good idea. I does help to see if there is anything really fishy going on early. I think in that last game I noticed him chronoing the archives really early which says blink stalker to me. I may be confused on the timings though, I'll have to review the replay and check. In any case, I am convinced, cancelling the CC would be a bad idea. I'm just trying to think of any way to improve my ability to hold blink stalker as it is my hardest all in to hold out of any match up.
As for your question, I found it just takes a little practice on learning to stay calm when that stuff happens, personally I pull an scv right away to go after a scouting probe in my base as they more than other races almost always try to attack your builder (in my experience). If you can attack him soon enough he'll probably run away, otherwise swap your builder with your fresh scv and send the damaged one to your mineral line.
For light msc harass you should ideally have at least the 3 marines to be able to hold that off by the time they come, if you can snipe the msc it'll be huge for your 10 min push.
I definitely feel you on getting thrown off by early harass, it can put you on tilt the whole match, I think it is just a matter of being really familiar with your build order so you know how to get back on track quickly, and trying to stay calm while it is happening and not over react in a why that'll put you way behind.
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Hi everyone, i've just started playing Heart of the Swarm for the first time. In Wings of Liberty i was mid master and i used to play pretty standart (macro play). At the moment i'm platinum in HOTS after 20 games.
I've read the main post but some information are pretty much out of date i think.
What i would like to have is:
- Three standart builds for the three match ups
- Three all in / aggressive play
Thank you so much
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On July 30 2013 08:05 stichtom wrote:
Hi everyone, i've just started playing Heart of the Swarm for the first time. In Wings of Liberty i was mid master and i used to play pretty standart (macro play). At the moment i'm platinum in HOTS after 20 games.
I've read the main post but some information are pretty much out of date i think.
What i would like to have is:
- Three standart builds for the three match ups
- Three all in / aggressive play
Thank you so much
Here is what I use:
Standard:
TvP: Demuslim's reaper expand early ebay. Build can be found on imbabuilds.com I think. Another popular one is CC first, which there is a thread on here on TL.
TvZ: CC first into either a fast 3rd or ~5 rax if I want to be more aggressive. This is like option 3 in the OP TvZ builds.
TvT: I like the forGG build, blue flame hellions into mech with an early raven (there is a whole thread on it here on the strategy forum). Biomech is still popular.
Aggressive / allin:
TvP: There isn't much with the current game state. Proxy factory -> widow mines is about all I can think of. It holds off the toss expo a bit and forces a robo.
TvZ: My TvZ is my best matchup with my macro game so I never all-in, but I think you can still do things like bunker rushes and proxy reapers.
TvT: Lots, Proxy thor is my favorite (can be found in imbabuilds). You can do 2rax reapers, proxied or not, fast banshee, marine / mine drop into banshee, 2 tank pushes / drops. There are probably more I'm forgetting.
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If I go CC first (CC is on the highground) and the zerg does the catz response (building a hatchery at my natural, spreading creep there, making lings, at the same time as taking other bases etc. what is the correct response? everything i've tried puts me too far behind in tech, army, or economy (lets face it, I'm too far behind in all 3 at once)
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On July 30 2013 11:48 Ikidomari wrote:
If I go CC first (CC is on the highground) and the zerg does the catz response (building a hatchery at my natural, spreading creep there, making lings, at the same time as taking other bases etc. what is the correct response? everything i've tried puts me too far behind in tech, army, or economy (lets face it, I'm too far behind in all 3 at once)
Put down a second rax, get a tech lab on your factory and builds 1 or 2 tanks. Also you might want to make a bunker near the proxy hatch as soon as possible (or even up on your highground if you don't feel safe). That's how Demuslim reacts (saw him doing it on his stream the other day), and he won convincingly right after.
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On July 30 2013 12:49 HugzForL wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2013 11:48 Ikidomari wrote:
If I go CC first (CC is on the highground) and the zerg does the catz response (building a hatchery at my natural, spreading creep there, making lings, at the same time as taking other bases etc. what is the correct response? everything i've tried puts me too far behind in tech, army, or economy (lets face it, I'm too far behind in all 3 at once) Put down a second rax, get a tech lab on your factory and builds 1 or 2 tanks. Also you might want to make a bunker near the proxy hatch as soon as possible (or even up on your highground if you don't feel safe). That's how Demuslim reacts (saw him doing it on his stream the other day), and he won convincingly right after.
thanks, I've tried doing a 2nd rax and bunker immediately, but even with SCVs repairing they somehow get enough lings/spines to kill it, oh well, just need to practice i guess.
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I'm still trying to learn Terran, and I'm still having an awful time of it. I thought I should try to learn a build order, so I'm working on Bomber's opening from Day[9] Daily #530. (The "Newbie Tuesday" label sounded perfect for me.) A rough list of the things that are killing me the most often:- massive speedling runby at about 8 minutes (probably what I die to most often)
- mass mutalisks
- zealot/stalker or zealot/stalker/MSC pressure
- a worker killing the SCV building my barracks or CC, sometimes the second SCV as well (delays my build, makes the followup aggression even more effective)
- pretty much anything one base: blink stalkers, banshee, tank drop, ...
Can Bomber's opening be modified to be a bit safer against these sorts of things, or should I be choosing a different build as the first one I learn? The detailed and newb-friendly video tutorial is the reason I started with this one but I'm sure there are others.
(edit: Forgot 4 gate on the list, of course. Just died to that twice in a row. Even had a tank out before it hit, the second time. Sigh.)
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Sounds like you are at a lower level tarpman. If that's the case always wall off with supply depot, barracks, supply depot. This alone will save you in many games. If you are going to build a CC then build it on the high ground (in your main base). Always scout. If protoss doesn't have nexus up by 5:00 then build at least one, possibly even 2 bunkers behind your supply depots. For zerg the same concept but their hatch should be up by 3:00 mins. Terran is kind of iffy because it's kind of volatile right now and they can always build a CC on their high ground. To be perfectly safe against terran build an engineering bay at 5:30. Scan his base around 6:00 and build turret if you see banshee tech.
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On July 29 2013 22:25 Pirfiktshon wrote:
Scouting In TvP is So critical it can make you or break you depending on what you scout.... I'm starting to see more and more that Avilo's Reaper expand with widow mines is soooo freaking powerful and helps you defend against this oracle pressure 1 widow mine kills 1 oracle.... for early oracles its all about stalling until that first widow mine comes out i guess.... I havn't fought against this yet but Avilo has it on his Write up of his TvP Reaper safe expand
Can anyone put the build of Avilo's Reaper expand or a link with it? Thank you.
I use CC first in high ground walling with a rax too and the tipical push at the 10 minute mark if u don't win u will make a nice push at least.
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EPT
