• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 01:11
CET 07:11
KST 15:11
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !0Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win0Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
$5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup RSL Offline Finals Info - Dec 13 and 14! Tenacious Turtle Tussle 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Current Meta Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Dawn of War IV ZeroSpace Megathread The 2048 Game Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1193 users

[G] ~8% faster gas mining - Page 3

Forum Index > StarCraft 2 Strategy
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
Orek
Profile Joined February 2012
1665 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-28 08:30:23
October 28 2012 08:03 GMT
#41
Thanks for the positive feedback guys.

On October 28 2012 16:57 MasterCynical wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

uhhh, im not understanding your maths

11 o’clock = (2500/1291)+(2500/1377) = 225.121 [gas/sec]
7 o’clock = (2500/1291)+(2500/1320) = 229.825 [gas/sec]


shouldn't it be this?
11 o’clock = (2500/1291)+(2500/1377) = 3.752 [gas/sec]
7 o’clock = (2500/1291)+(2500/1320) = 3.830 [gas/sec]

according to your data, the worst time of 1395 secs will give 107.5 gas/min while the best time 1291 will give 116.2 gas/min
over a 10 min period, it will be a difference of 87. since all bases have at least one 1291 gas, this will be the worst difference.
Or if you look at zerg, where gas starts at 6:00 and you'll need to defend a toss timing at around 9-11, it will only be about 40ish gas you're missing out on.

I think the difference is negligible enough to not make any significant differences compared to differences of skill level.



Oops. I forgot to multiple by 60 to make it [gas/min] instead of [gas/sec] for the math I did on Excel. Thank you very much for pointing out. I will edit now.

Edit: done. It's now [gas/min] as it should have been.
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-28 08:05:49
October 28 2012 08:05 GMT
#42
Well, it is true that the geyser looked far on Entombed Valley, so not much pros take it first...

But at least, we now know that Inori is such a noob

+ Show Spoiler +
For the reference, I looked through at least 20 VOD, and Inori was the only one to make that "mistake"
LastLemming
Profile Joined June 2011
United States38 Posts
October 28 2012 08:09 GMT
#43
this was great
Morufi1
Profile Joined May 2012
Germany49 Posts
October 28 2012 08:09 GMT
#44
I remember a stream of the IM team, where the IM coach played and Mvp sat behind him. One of the first things that happened, was that Mvp critisized the coach for taking the "bad" gas, so i thought this results were common knowledge among the pros. (When the coach almost loses, Mvp takes over and wins the game, maybe somebody can find the link)

Or am i missing something and this is something other then the things discovered here?
enemy2010
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
Germany1972 Posts
October 28 2012 08:13 GMT
#45
I don't think that makes much of a difference.
1on1 auf azze no he no flash no awp only holztor. | Ja, da meint der ich hätt' abgeschmatzt, aber dat is Quatsch, verstehste?
Mista_Masta
Profile Joined January 2009
Netherlands557 Posts
October 28 2012 08:18 GMT
#46
Wow, this is really interesting. Great job on the research!
romans
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia18 Posts
October 28 2012 08:19 GMT
#47
Amazing research post - not too sure about your conclusion though, that Blizzard should fix it. Given the imbalance in terran addons and larva spawn isn't killing esports (as well as other asymmetry in maps), can't this be kept as just one more little factoid that a superior player can use to defeat his opponents? Referring only to ladder maps that is.
Imbu
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States903 Posts
October 28 2012 08:22 GMT
#48
On October 28 2012 17:09 Morufi1 wrote:
I remember a stream of the IM team, where the IM coach played and Mvp sat behind him. One of the first things that happened, was that Mvp critisized the coach for taking the "bad" gas, so i thought this results were common knowledge among the pros. (When the coach almost loses, Mvp takes over and wins the game, maybe somebody can find the link)

Or am i missing something and this is something other then the things discovered here?

That game was played on Metalopolis which had a much more distinct "bad gas" than many of these newer maps.
@DreamingBird
DrDeep
Profile Joined January 2011
16 Posts
October 28 2012 08:24 GMT
#49
A lot of dedication into this. Thank you and keep up the good work!
fezvez
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
France3021 Posts
October 28 2012 08:24 GMT
#50
As a side note on the "2 gas 4 workers" part :

When (waiting time for the 3rd worker) < (additional travel time for farther gas), it should be the case.


I did some modeling, and I agree with your conclusion (as long as (additional travel time for farther gas) means (additional travel time for farther gas back and from) )

This looks horrible to experiment though
Lazzi
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland1923 Posts
October 28 2012 08:27 GMT
#51
This is one of the best post I've seen in a while. Good job!
It's good to be back
Notfragile
Profile Joined April 2011
Greece713 Posts
October 28 2012 08:30 GMT
#52
Great post!! And the "anti-drama" intro made me laugh as well!
Dude, where do you find the inspiration for each "research project" of yours??
"The art of war is of vital importance to the state" || MVP.Keen fan since the day he stole my heart with a double 2rax. http://i.imgur.com/A82cl.gif
Complete
Profile Joined October 2009
United States1864 Posts
October 28 2012 08:38 GMT
#53
Thanks for doing some research in to this. I've noticed this on some maps and it's very annoying, but I didn't know specifically ho to identify the bad vespene gases.
Stamper
Profile Joined February 2011
Germany148 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-10-28 08:46:13
October 28 2012 08:45 GMT
#54
Looking at all those maps lots of them have imbalances, where the mirrored position has a worse geysir than the other one. There's your drama. We have been playing on imbalanced maps all this time.
Liquid`Bunny
Profile Joined May 2011
Denmark145 Posts
October 28 2012 08:56 GMT
#55
Actually on some maps (team maps especially) they placed the gas too close to the town hall. So mining with 2 workers suddenly become really efficient. I haven't actually done any research on this, but it's quite easy to see that you have those 10-20 bonus gas at a certain time in your build.
Team Liquid
StatixEx
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United Kingdom779 Posts
October 28 2012 09:00 GMT
#56
this is insane. dude you love this game more than i do!!!! Fantastic read . . took me an hr!
oOOoOphidian
Profile Joined January 2011
United States1402 Posts
October 28 2012 09:03 GMT
#57
I had no idea that recent maps had these problems, I only noticed it on older maps (metalopolis was extremely obvious).
Creator of sc2unmasked.com
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
October 28 2012 09:04 GMT
#58
Awesome post, I'd thought about this but hadn't seen or read any hard math on it.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
pzu
Profile Joined June 2011
Sweden287 Posts
October 28 2012 09:09 GMT
#59
Great presentation of your results, thank you for this!
Pandain
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States12989 Posts
October 28 2012 09:12 GMT
#60
Really sick research, well done!
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 16 17 18 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 49m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
WinterStarcraft571
RuFF_SC2 176
SortOf 42
StarCraft: Brood War
Shuttle 1491
Aegong 30
GoRush 30
Mong 28
Hm[arnc] 22
Noble 20
Sacsri 18
ZergMaN 14
Icarus 7
Dota 2
monkeys_forever695
League of Legends
JimRising 712
C9.Mang0465
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 1628
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor100
Other Games
summit1g9687
Mew2King49
Trikslyr38
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick936
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Light_VIP 108
• Kozan
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• intothetv
• Migwel
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• RayReign 15
• Diggity5
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• Rush1402
• Lourlo1343
• HappyZerGling133
Other Games
• Scarra4253
Upcoming Events
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3h 49m
WardiTV 2025
5h 49m
Spirit vs YoungYakov
Rogue vs Nice
Scarlett vs Reynor
TBD vs Clem
uThermal vs Shameless
PiGosaur Cup
18h 49m
WardiTV 2025
1d 5h
MaNa vs Gerald
TBD vs MaxPax
ByuN vs TBD
TBD vs ShoWTimE
OSC
1d 8h
YoungYakov vs Mixu
ForJumy vs TBD
Percival vs TBD
Shameless vs TBD
The PondCast
2 days
WardiTV 2025
2 days
Cure vs Creator
TBD vs Solar
WardiTV 2025
3 days
OSC
3 days
CranKy Ducklings
4 days
[ Show More ]
SC Evo League
4 days
Ladder Legends
4 days
BSL 21
4 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
5 days
Ladder Legends
5 days
BSL 21
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Monday Night Weeklies
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.