[D] Zerg theorycrafting circle: ZvP openers - Page 3
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TheGreenMachine
United States730 Posts
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abefroman
70 Posts
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Skelith
Sweden101 Posts
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abefroman
70 Posts
edit: I mean, i put the hatch at my third because i plan on droning it up asap. Basically, I drone until i have enough for 2 base mineral saturation, make 20 lings, then put drones back on gas and drone up the third. If protoss tries to push out through my lings and take a third at a reasonable time....i'll just keep droning all the way to 90+ and go straight for brood/infestor. | ||
TheRealzz
150 Posts
Also because I just get stomped by P xD On that note; its true if they scout no 3rd they tend to turtle up come out a little later with more shizz and safely take a 3rd. Before me or at the same time, still unacceptable :/ And then I have an army that could have been drones :/ | ||
Innovation
United States284 Posts
what sucks so much when you lose this way is that know that if you simply went a standard build you probably would have been in great shape. I have gone back to the typical 3 base openings and just been more proactive in scouting the timings and more focused on tech/comp/upgrades than on 12 min 200/200 max. It's really hard to trade efficiently, expo, and tech unless you're Stephano. Much of the time Toss attacks come much later than they used to so with good vision/scouting you can drone harder and focus less on roaches and more on getting our earlier infestors/tier-3 | ||
Ozell
Canada105 Posts
I think it is pretty sad that a zerg can't effectivelly put pressure on a protoss before the protoss gets on a third. This basically lets the protoss do whatever he wants, how he wants it as the only thing zerg can do is REACT, the zerg simply can't be the race that sets the tempo. That's mostly why I think this matchup is broken, not IMBALANCED. This matchup can't evolve in any way with the current units and stats. As a whole, that's why I think that 6pool on smaller maps should almost be standard as it is the only build where zerg can effectively put pressure on the protoss. We've seen SuhoSin and Life lately use these kind of strats and it led to good results for those 2. Sadly, you can't always go 6pool as a gate first build pretty much hardcounters it. I can't wait for HoTS... Early recall for protoss = protoss can finally push early on without having to be scared to hit 40 speedlings. New zerg units = Something to do against ffe (I hope). I'm getting tired of 2 base timings -_- | ||
Ozell
Canada105 Posts
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thekoalaz
United States109 Posts
I need to look at replays to see the specifics and also how tight of a rope Hyun's walking here but it's definitely more entertaining to watch as a spectator. | ||
Orek
1665 Posts
Instead, why don't we try to find "a few" viable builds and accept that fact that each of them have some build order disadvantage. I think this earlier lingspeed build is not something you should do every game. As ohters pointed out above, it has its weaknesses. However, Protoss CANNOT scout this 4min30sec gas timing because of queen/lings. This means that if Zerg players collectively mix it up and use both no gas 3 base and this earlier ling speed, then Protoss players cannot be sure until he sees ling speed at 7min45sec. Or, it doesn't necessarily have to be 4min30sec gas. Making it 5min, 5min30 etc. and mixing up every game would prevent Protoss to "read the metagame." Then, any Protoss units wandering around after 7min45sec are in danger potentially. Potentially in danger = reluctant to move out EVEN WHEN no gas is actually taken and Zerg is going economy because Protoss cannot or should not scout the gas timing. When 95% of games are no gas 3 base and only 5% are this earlier ling speed, Protoss can just "metagame" Zerg and do a build that is safe vs no gas 3 base but is risky vs earlier ling speed. If both styles are used 50% each, then Protoss would hesitate to use the aforementioned build. I don't think we are trying to win every game. You win some, you lose some. If earlier ling speed is auto loss vs some builds, but shifting metagame itself prevents some good builds vs no gas 3 base style, then it may benefit Zerg OVERALL despite some silly build order losses. The point I repeat is that Protoss cannot scout gas timing without Zerg slip up. | ||
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