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Hello, I am Psychonian and I have been having trouble with beating Sky Protoss. I am a random player and just played a 4v4 where the match spawned as PPPP v PPPZ. I tried mass blink stalker-chargelot, with High Templar with storm for support.
I do not think that mass Phoenix is a viable option as Phoenixes are not really meant for killing air units, they are meant to skirt around the edge of the map and perhaps snipe an overlord or lift an SCV building an important building.
The game began with some rather inappropriate chatter from the Zerg player, so viewer discretion advised, lol.
I opened with 7gate for defense, and it soon paid off as an opposing player came in with blinkstalkers. At about the 10 minute mark, I expanded, and added on many more gateways. I believe in the end that I had somewhere around a full page (24) of gateways.
I began to push out, but suddenly ran into a massive combined army of about 40 void rays and perhaps 10-15 carriers. I called in help, but even in a 4v2 battle, with all my teammates involved, we were still crushed. Could archons have helped? Maybe more High Templar? The replay is here.
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Archon toilet maybe? I dont know. I think the best way of dealing with that is by not letting them reach a critical mass of air units.
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Here's a general rule of thumb: NEVER LET PROTOSS MACRO. Also, you can't beat mass carriers without carriers of ur own or luck archon toilet. U can try, but its fuckin hard.
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You left the opponent alone long enough for him to get the death air fleet.... Everything dies to that. Simple answer is to prevent him from getting it. 4v4 is all about the rushes. Once past the rush phase, anything goes. If you want a proper counter, HTs with storm, because they're the only long range AoE, unless you can pull off an archon toilet (unlikely because it's too late to build a mothership).
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Thanks for the help. Will try to act on it.
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Massive amounts of archons + storm and a mothership for archon toilets. I dont believe anything else in the game can really deal with a fully upgraded maxed out sky protoss
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Alright, I watched your replay.
Your macro is really poor throughout the game. You float thousands of resources when you aren't maxed and only had around 110 supply by the 18 minute mark after being minimally harassed and being on 2 bases. By the 23 minute mark you were only 0/2/1 or something like that.
Your army didn't evaporate due to the carriers and void rays, it evaporated because you didn't throw up forcefields to stop the ~75 banelings from rolling into your ball of ground units (which was your entire army). You tried to storm them but it didn't do enough damage to kill them before they exploded all over your units.
As far as dealing with mass protoss air, HTs and archon toilet would be my suggestion.
If you're interested in improving your play you need to work on your macro because that's your biggest flaw right now.
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voidray > carrier > phoenix > voidray is how i feel about toss air.
storm helps vs carriers... a bit.
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Fungal Storm + Infested Terrans works well, but as Protoss, your only viable options are mass HT + some archons to tank or a larger air fleet.
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PvP, either don't let him get it, or go mothership with archon/HT for carpet storms and archon toilet. In small numbers it's possible to use a few blinkstalkers. Prioritize armour and shield upgrades. Carriers are much weaker when at an upgrade disadvantage. Build a lot of gateways to get a lot of blinkstalkers after your first wave dies, carriers are a lot weaker in small numbers than in huge numbers, plus take a lot of time to build.
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i'm pretty sure that there is no air fleet that cannot get obliterated with an archon toilet. If your opponents air units are too fast (corruptors) you need a couple more archons, but that's it. You can archon toilet mass BC, carrier, void ray, BL, even muta to some extend.
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On June 07 2012 04:44 Psychonian wrote:I do not think that mass Phoenix is a viable option as Phoenixes are not really meant for killing air units, they are meant to skirt around the edge of the map and perhaps snipe an overlord or lift an SCV building an important building.
I go mass Phoenix all the time in 4v4 in Diamond; you can actually do really well with it if you get good with lifting massive numbers of units quickly, and they'll handle most air units well if used properly. I almost never stick to the edges of the map, because they're fantastic at supporting pushes by teammates, and you can dart all over the map faster than anyone else with them.
They're not the best solution against Carriers, but if you have a solid numbers advantage (which you should based on costs) and find yourself with mostly Phoenixes, I've had some success sitting on the very edge of Carrier range with a tightly-massed ball of Phoenixes. Only a couple Carriers can send Interceptors at you at a time, because the rest aren't in range unless they're extremely bunched as well, and your Phoenixes can snipe the interceptors without too many losses. Some of my most satisfying moments in SC2 have been watching a fleet of Carriers go from arrogance to all-out panic in that split second when they realize they don't have any Interceptors.
In general, though, I agree with some of these other responses: If a Protoss player shows up with 40 Void Rays and 10-15 Carriers, and you didn't know he was headed down that route yet, you missed your attack window by a good 10+ minutes.
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EPT
